Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: originator on September 19, 2006, 03:25:11 PM
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Hello all I gotta say I love the MACH3 software, I have been using it for 10 months now and functionally it is great. There has been some strange issue since day one that I cannot solve, and the crap software that MAX sends out doesn't cause these problems, so somehow there is a conflict with MACH3 in m,y setup. Speaking to MAXNC will get you no where.
When I power up the machine daily, using MACH3, I have to reboot the machine at least 5 times to get it to finally run. The first thing I do when powering up is test some x or y jog, and and if it works I then try to ref home. In most cases, once I ref home, it stops working right after the ref, occassionally it pops the breaker. then I restart the machine again a few times till x or y will move, then ref home again, until finally it will run. This goes on daily for 10 months now! I have been through the optimized text twice in detail. I am using the max driver that says ART version on it. There are times during cutting when I finish a code the thing will not do another part, just hangs up and needs to be rebooted, but once it is cutting, it usually finishes that part. I would rather deal with this headache than use their horrendous "dos like" software. I have been through the motor tuning a thousand times trying every variation. I have the minimmum inputs and outputs turned on, Below is my setup as is, if anyone here has been fortunate to get this combo of great softwre and soso machine to work, I would appreciate any help.
Maxnc clmode Ena
25000
MOTOR OUTS
X ENA 6 7 DIRLOW x STEP x STEPPORT 1 DIRPORT 1
Y ENA 4 5 DIRLOW x STEP x STEPPORT 1 DIRPORT 1
Z ENA 8 9 DIRLOW x STEP x STEPPORT 1 DIRPORT 1
SPIN 1 0 dIRLOW x sTEP Ena STEP 1 dIR 0 'spindle is now off due to blown pwm, motor is switched manually
INPUTS
x HOME Ena port 1 pin12 actlow X Emu X
y HOME Ena port 1 pin12 actlow X Emu X
z HOME Ena port 1 pin12 actlow X Emu X
input#1 Ena Port 1 Pin 10 X X
Estop Ena port 0 pin 0 X X
OUTPUTS
Output#1 Port 1 Pin 1 Actlow Ena 'disabled now
Output#16 Port 1 Pin 16 Actlow X
Output#17 Port 1 Pin 17 Actlow Ena
ENCODER/MPG
ALL 0, X
sPINDLE
disable spin rel Ena
Flood mist Ena
Use Spind Motor out Ena
PWM Ena
pwm base freq 40
min 25%
spin speed av ena p0.25 1 0.3
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Hi, Originator
The pop's breaker, maybe one axis is bottoming out just before the home switch actuates or intermittent switch, try-ed moving them.
What ver of Mach3 ?
Computer speed, memory ?
More info needed, Chip
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Thanks Chip
d1.90.036 is the engine
MACH3 1.0.0.1
Speed of cpu is 1.7
approx 800m ram
The breaker is not daily, but often. The swiches are all fine, the unit stops at random places, not always at ref home but it is coincidental though, one thought is the low homing speed preceeding the stop. I would notice abind on the motors if the switches were not funcioning. The breaker usually pops while sitting still, never in motion.
Let me know what else you want to know.
Thanks
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Here are a few more details:
1. Sometimes on reboot one or more motor will jog at very low speed.
2. Sometimes on ref home a motor sounds like it is gurgling or grinding although there is no load
3. today I have rebooted the machine at least 50 times just to get through a part. At variouis times it will just stop moving. I have replaced the cable but no difference.
4. Sometimes after machine reboot, I can attempt to jog, and it will only jog a few rev's before stopping movement. Then reboort is required. Sometimes on reboot, if have tried to jog prior to fully booting up, it will jump, then stall.
5. I have tried lower and higher accel speeds in tuning
6. I have tried various delays in tuning
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Could you please run a driver test and tell me what you see in the graph? DriverTest.exe is under the Mach3 directory
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Couple of things.
Popping breaker: is this in your main breaker panel or is it on the driver box?
If it is on the main panel make sure that it isn't a GFI or short detecting type. These don't respond well to machines. Also find out what else is on that breaker circuit and try to unplug anything not needed while cutting. If at all possible plug in to another wall outlet on another breaker.
As for your computer this could be any number of things. Ram going bad, Power supply going bad, Cpu getting to hot. And just plain Windows xp.
I would recommend that you backup what you need from that machine and do a format and a reinstall of windows xp. I know this sucks but it is sometimes the only to get things working again. Don't forget to back up your mach .XML file. After you have done that load mach before anything else and give it a go (don't do the optimisation yet) . If you are still having problems with constant crashing post back and we will start looking at hardware.
CHad
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Breaker is on machine controller, a lttle pop-out button sorry about that detail left out. The breaker popping is not as frequent and less important in terms of inconvenience, although likely they are inter-related problems. The machine usually stops working when not in motion, only rarely does it stop in the middlwe of a cut. Usually it is just sittig there idle, you go to jog and it is dead, although whining still from the servos.
I have reinstalled windows prior. The PC never crashes ever, just the machie stops moving and the machine needs reboot.
Driver test in a few minutes when part is done.
Thanks
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Driver test:
Approx 25k
CPu 1506
Apic 11442
37 *********xx
45 *********xx
graph shows steady level of low noise with spikes here and there
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Run msconfig and turn off any startup items... that will make it so you have a nice clean version of windows running.
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I just turned off everything in the list. It still took powering up the machine around 20 times to finally connect and jog. Once it jogged for a second and stopped, then after a few more power cycles it finally ran jogged for a bit without stopping.
Yesterday alone I restarted the machine around 250 times just to get through the day. Usually once it is going good, it will go the day until powering off, but this is a closed loop system and very noisy when not in use, so I must power it on and off thoughout the day as needed. Once it goes, you can usually make it through a part, once you turn it off, it is black magic and chanting to get to run again. Sometimes it takes 15 mintues to come back.
With no exageration, I have lost easily 4 weeks in the last 10 months on this problem. Something is confilicting that is causing it to lose or not make connection on start up, and occassionally it loses it after startup. I have tried new cables, I have been through the machines controller board for lose connections, plus the factory has been through the board as well. I have turned off everything that can be turned off on the PC.
The owner of the machine company says not to use Mach software, but I have to find way to make this work as theirs is a big hassle.
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Originator.
You're doing well to stick with it so long restarting restarting restarting.
Was it like this straight away, in March when you got the machine?
This other software from the manufacturer.. Does it run the machine smoothly or is it too awkward to try?
Jim
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The manufacturer software called MAXNC works fine, but it is not something I can deal with, it is DOS software running on WIndows, no mouse, no long words are visible, very awkwrard program that I will not use ever under any circumstances.
The problem has always existed since day 1. I am now going through motions of removing all services to try to find a solution. I have already removed all Startup items. Next I removed ALL SERVICES in MSCONFIG. At that point it would never start up, so I added back in the plug and play, COM+ and now it is better odds at working. Prior it was 1 in 20 tries to get it to run, now it is 1 in 3 in my first few tests.
Thanks
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Please tell me if you can't get it running... Mail me off list and I will see what we can do...
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Hi, Originator
Is your problem that Mach3 won't load or is it Mach3 loads but doesn't turn on the control / servos when reset. ?
Seems to me that pins 16 and 17 turn on the control and servos using setting's in Config, Ports and Pins, Output Signal.
Have you set Pin 16 and 17 there, When reset is reset this turns on Enable LED's in Diagnostic View.
Set Enable # 1 to 6, Enabled It, Port # 1, Pin 16, Active Low, checked I think.
Set Enable # 1 to 6, Enabled It, Port # 1, Pin 17, Active Low, checked I think.
If so, checked / try-ed Active Low in both states. ? Active Hi, X or Low, checked.
If it works properly with the dos software then it has to be a configuration problem in Mach3 setup.
Hope this Helps, Chip
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Is your problem that Mach3 won't load
Mach3 always loads. Mach3 never crashes, the computer never crashes. The machine simply doesn't move when told to move on many occasions until the magic kicks in, then it will work for a long time if you are lucky. The machine will never run twice ina row.
Typical example:
1. Turn on the machine, doesn't jog
2. Turn off machine, turn it on again, test for jog, 10-20 tries, no jog
3. Finally maybe it jogs for a split second, then stops
4. Turn off machine again, turn on machine, test for jog, 5 more times
6. finally machine may run, or run for splir second
When the machine finally "connects" and will jog, you can usually do a part
7. Turn off machine, return at any later to do another part
8. Machine doesn't jog, power off/on machine 5 to 20 times till it jogs
In all, we are talking about 200 power off/on per day, every day.
Output 16 port 1 pin 16 X
Output 17 port 1 pin 17 Check act low
If these are not as above, nothing will work, ever.
If enable port 1 pin 16 is checked, whether act low of not, no difference
If enable port 1 pin 17 is checked, whether act low of not, no difference
Any combination of act low or high on these enables makes no difference
Currently all startup items are off
In services:
Plug n play, just a few essetials and thats it
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Hi, Originator
I now it's supposed be Plug n play, If it's working every time in Dos mode you need to check all the pin outputs in that mode probably with a scope then load Mach3 and re verify the same state on the pins with it under Mach3.
There must be a difference.
Post your Mach3Mill.XML file, I'd like to take a look at it.
Thank's, Chip
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Yup if you post it i will have a look at it too :)
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Sorry, been slammed for a few days.
Here is the file.
Thanks for checking it out.
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There is nothing in the xml that you posted... Is this the right one? It is not in Max NC CL mode...
Thanks
Brian
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All I did was look in the MACH3 folder and grab the file.
If you couldn't red it, here is a text version that has a whole lot of stuff that makes no sense to me.
Is there another location to look?
It is chjecked MAXNC CL mode though in the window, else it doesn't run at all.
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There is still nothing in that text file, well I should clarify by saying there are no settings in that file. You need to get the xml for the profile you are using eg if its Mach3Mill then you want Mach3Mill.xml, if its a profile you have made yourself it will be profilename.xml
Hood
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Hi, Originator
Made up an Originator test XML below Put it in your Mach3 Dir., not sure about pin 10 set it to show Input1 led to show on if servos normal.
I Set E-Stop to pin 10 also, If the input1 led is on and jog's, un-check the E-Stop Emulate for E-Stop to trip on servo error.
I don't have a control like this just hope its a start to get it running rite.
Found this Some where on a Yahoo site.
PIN ASSIGNMENTS FOR THE
MAXNC CL2 SOFTWARE
PRINTER PORT PIN ASSIGNMENT
1............... M3 OUTPUT (LOW=ON, PULSE FOR PWM)
2............... A AXIS (quadrature)
3............... A AXIS (quadrature)
4............... Y AXIS (quadrature)
5............... Y AXIS (quadrature)
6................X AXIS (quadrature)
7............... X AXIS (quadrature)
8............... Z AXIS (quadrature)
9............... Z AXIS (quadrature)
10.............. INPUT, MOVE ENABLE (LOW=NORMAL OPERATION, HIGH=STOP, SEE NOTE)
11.............. INACTIVE
12.............. INPUT, HOME SWITCH (NORMAL OPERATION LOW)
13.............. INPUT, G61 SWITCH SENSOR
14.............. M8 OUTPUT (LOW=ON)
15.............. NONE
16.............. OUTPUT, DISABLE POWER TO MOTORS (LOW=NORMAL, HIGH=DISABLE)
17.............. OUTPUT, RESET CONTROLLER (LOW=RESET, HIGH=NORMAL)
18.............. ALL SIGNALS GROUND
19 TO 25 ....... NONE
NOTE: MOVE ENABLE IS USED TO STOP THE COMPUTER STREAM OF CODES UNTIL THE SERVO
MOTORS CATCH UP. ON TIME-OUT IT WILL PRODUCE A SERVO ERROR.
Just a Test, Chip
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Hi, Originator
Hear are 2 moer to try.
Just another Test, Chip
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I had already started working on that first one and have made significant progress with it. At first it was telling me that it was corrupt or a MACH2 file, but I just ignored the error and continued. I put back all my original settings, and now I can power the machine off and on with about 90% success rate with the motors jogging. Once in a while X doesn' t jog, but this is so much better that it is not important. I had to play with the tuning, This machine will run at 4000 pulses, 45 speed and 20 accel, faster than that and it stops running. But that is acceptable to me.
After I restated the program, it doesn't give the corrupt or mach2 error any longer.
Except for the X not running once in a while on machine power up, I am very happy with this. If you want I'll try the other test files, just let me know if there is reason to mess with them since I am mostly fine now.
Very much appreciated! This has been more frustrating than you can ever imagine.
Thanks
Todd
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Hi, Originator
The Test 1.XML was for a Max Nc CL 15 it dosent have pin assignment, don't now if that's normal, the Test 2 is the same XML that I added pin # to.
The XML was on Yahoo Maxnc group Files section named maxnc cl 15 final, Finaly was able to save them in XML format.
Give them a try won't change the one your using now.
Glad to hear it's a little better now.
Where are you located.
Thank's cHip
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I will test them out I am in Hollyweird CA
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The first one is the most reliable. Test 1 is not running most if the time, Test2 has a better ratio of run to fail, but the first is very good odds. I can work with this no problem. Thanks again for all the effort, that is a life saver.
Todd
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Hello
Well I tried to use the new driver today for the first time, and although it does jog th same as it used to, there are mysterious problems. The Z axis raises up around 3 inches whereas the code tells it .07 rapicd plane. Then, when it heads to its first destination, it ges so far it hits the switch, but it should only travel an inch. I tried to upload my Maxnc xml but keep getting an server error that the site is exceeded quota. I will try it again tomorrow. I went back to my old driver just to try to get through the day, 6 hours+ and not even one cut made. Your driver seems to jog very consistently so I am desperately hoping we can solve the issue with the travel being far off. I went into motor tuning and set it to 200 just to see what happened. It jogged slower, but still went too far over where it should have in travel. I am about to print your file and my old one to look for where the problem may be. Thanks for any suggestions.
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Here are teh files. The OLD one that has finally bit the dust, plus your new one that at least will jog very consistenly. Hopefully we can track down the area that is causing the longer travel.
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once again
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Ok they wont upload here is a link to the xml and zip version.
Thanks
http://studiotoyz.com/old.xml
http://studiotoyz.com/originatortest.xml
http://studiotoyz.com/old.xml.zip
http://studiotoyz.com/originatortest.xml.zip
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I think I want to now abandon their controller, I think it is dead and MAXNC says that using other softwares are damaging it. Nonetheless, it doesn't run great even with their software now. So it is time to punt.
I am looking at building my own Hbridges which would be simple, and running it in Step and Direction. I am ust curious if I use MACHMILL.xml as the driver, and set my driver to receive the step and dir off the same pins as they are set up now. The motors are 8wire uni, and although I have only used bi-polar, I think I may have an easier time with a home brew that their quadrature setup that has never worked right more than a day.
If anyone sees a problem with this thought process please let me know.
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There are some low cost drivers that will give you all 3 axis for about 130.00 I think :) Woudl that work for you?
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Sounds pretty good, what are they?
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http://www.hobbycnc.com/hcncpro.php
I have never used them my self but many others have :)
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Wowsers ,, that is cheap ..
~~Looks at receipt for 3 axis kit~~
THUD :)
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Yes that is cheap. I made a decision today to keep my board in tact with the outputs, PS, connectors and encoders, and just get rid of their PIC16F84's and drop in my own micro. I am going to use the Propeller by Parallax, which is an 8 x 32 bit 80mhz multiprocessor, one chip for all 12 motor outputs, 6 encoder quadrature inputs, 3 dir and 3 step.
I have already tested out driving the motors from a breadboard, so I'll get it all done and make my own PCB and have complete control in the future. I really appreciate all the help, but I have to bail on this manufacturers controller, it's been like prison. SInce the hardware is in tact, it will get me by for now.
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Hi Guys:
Im sorry I missed this for so long. One probelm here may have been the settings..
Output#16 Port 1 Pin 16 Actlow X
Output#17 Port 1 Pin 17 Actlow Ena
These two above are wrong. OUTPUT shoudl not be the signal used. These shodul be connected to ENABLE1 and ENABLE2, for
ENABLE#1 port 1 pin 16 Active Low enabled.
ENABLE#2 port 1 pin 17 Active Low Disabled
I know Im late, but just in case it helps. :)
Art
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Art Thanks for response. I was aware that that there are several versions of running pins 16 and 17 floating around. I have tried every possibility of combinations a gundred times. For some strange reason though, this cobtrollr would just lose connection on an axis every day, usually the X, but others as well, so it wasn't easy to trace. I will be done with replacing the processors and code tody or tomorrow, although it is a challenge. Being strapped to someone elses controller is nor fun. I'll run my own boards soon, with my own code and the adpat and modify as the need arises. MACH3 was always sending out the quadrature, but their processor would just drop the ball. Something on their processor didn't like some other state obviously. The problem was not the 16 - 17 pin config.
Thanks
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I found that setting pin 10 to input 1 to be very important too. It holds Mach from sending pulses during servo lag. Without it the controller will just fault out at high speeds.
Darek
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Yes pin 10 was always mandatory. I pulled out the PICs they had on the board, cut all traces in and out and hooked up my own board over the weekend. I wrote a piece of test code to sort of debug some conditions. One was I wrote it to shutdown the processor if the EncoderCounter was less than the XMotorCounter. One counts up/down for every output to the motor, the other counts up/down the encoder, then compares on every iteration. Since I was still getting the code right for couting the encoder, it was losing a pulse once in a while, and it would shut down the processor if I jogged back and forth a few times. On shutdown, the processor would stop all outputs including PWM to the motor, so it was obvious according to the lack of high pitch sound that it had stipped, This is exactly what was going on before that was happening on a regular basis with their processors that drove me to replace them with my own, Like I mentioned before, Mach3 was still sending it pulses, but the controlled for an axis, usually X, would stop running. Sometimes it was Y or Z, but mostly X.
Almost always on Ref home, X would stop and need rebooting the machine. I was usually REF homing at 30%, but had tried others as well. There was something very specific with the Ref home feature that my machine did not like, especially X. It would almost always make grinding sound or gurgling sound as it homed, then in many cases pop the breaker as it either went home, or right after. If it didn't pop the mahcines breaker, it would stop working after homing, and need resetting. One thing I notice is that unless the encoder cbale is sheilded, you can get false triggers. I am just guessing that maybe some motor spikes might have been getting in their encoder lines, which would be a very good explanation.
Nonetheless, I am almost done with my code using step and direction. There are a few outputs left on the processor and I'd like to send those back to the PC for future use. I think Estop is one good use, if a motor's encoder doesn't move enough pulses, it will shut down the processor and hit the estop. Maybe someone has some suggestions on other things to try as well. I am having boards made very to reflect the new processor and sense circuitry. Once I get this all dialed in I think it will be a great controller. There's nothing better than having your own boards, with your own code to mod as needed,
Thanks
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Hi
I too need to get my maxnc10 cl up and running but am bogged down. Where can I find the FTP site quoted that has the *.XML files for download. Cant see any links on the page or drop down menus to take me there.
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Hi:
Here are the Max files I have... The FTP is not online, but shoudl be soon. I cant seem to find a xml for the maxcl.. though I know Ive seen one,
Ill keep looking..
Art
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Thanks Art
I will try the early *.xml file on the yahoo site destined for Mach2 and see how i get on.
Many thanks
Clive
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I have just bought one CNC machine in 2001 of Maxnc Company. Trademark is MAXNC 10 CL -B. this machine has 4 pivots and i lost software and documentation of this machine. I am very appreciated If any body know it and send it to me or guide me how to install the parameter for MAXNC 10 machine then this machine can be run by mm system.
As I read from some forums that we can use Mach3 to run MAXNC 10 machine however I do not know how to set up all parameters to run mm system. Pls guide me in details to fill all parameter in Mach3 to control MAXNC 10 CL -B
Thanks for your kind supports
email : duongym@gmail.com