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We pick up this machine about a year ago, and we now starting to dig into it. This 412 was used in Tech School for most of its life. Then a machine shop got it next and ran it until it broke. The tool changer failed and they we having issues with Y Axis.
Below are pictures of loading it as we prepared for the 425 Mile trip back to my shop:
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The BP412 sat on the trailer for about week, as we tried to figure out an elegant why to unload the 5800lb chunk of IRON. We ended up calling a local wrecker service, one that is large enough to pull crashed semi’s off the road. They have fork trucks and wreckers,
and are experienced in unloading/loading crazy things from crash sites.
Here are the pictures of them unloading it from the trailer and placing it in the shop:
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WOW.....looks good Joel.
Keep us posted on the progress.
That's one tough little trailer too !
How well did it tow ?
NICE,
RC
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Most of the sheet metal and the coolant pan were removed, so we could get easy access to the servos, belts, ball-screws, tool changer and wiring. New paint and will added to the skins and some of the IRON when it’s reassembled.
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WOW.....looks good Joel.
Keep us posted on the progress.
That's one tough little trailer too !
How well did it tow ?
NICE,
RC
Yea, that trailer is only rated for 6000LBs. It road fine, we just keep it at or under 55 mph. Nerve racking to say the least! LOL
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Wow, on that first picture where they unload it from the trailer, it can actually be seen that the structure is bending above the chains. Did you check the bed and slides were Ok?
Daniel
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Wow, on that first picture where they unload it from the trailer, it can actually be seen that the structure is bending above the chains. Did you check the bed and slides were Ok?
Daniel
Yea, it looks worse than it is. On those old 412s, the sheet metal is in multiple parts and is supported only by the legs on the floor, its realy attched to the machine. The real machine IRON part just sits inside the sheet metal box on the floor all by itself. So when the machine is moved by the IRON, the sheet metal just hangs like floppy dog ears.
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The old electronics were working when we picked up the machine, since there is market to sell them, we did. Some might think it is better to use the stock components and this is a good argument. However, we want to be able to repair the machine ourselves in the event of an electronic failure, both quickly and at a reasonable cost. By upgrading to newer components, we can easily interface to Mach3 and keep or energy footprint low.
The goal is the run the BP412 at 220VAC 1 Phase 40Amps
Pictures of the stock parts:
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LOL with the addition. Hopefully it will enhance the shops capability and production.
Post when she's done and looking pretty.
RICH
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With the all the old electronics removed, it is time to start building up the Basic Mach3 System. First things first, Breakout Board and Charge Pump. I really like the Charge Pump integrated in Mach3, this allows for ALL outs to be tri-stated when the system is not RESET.
The only part we kept in the electronics cabinet was the 3 Phase Power Switch. We ran 220VAC to the switch fused with 40AMP breaker, so we have 110VAC or 220VAC available on the output of the switch. A switcher PS provides 5VCD and 12VDC, an analog PS was used 24VDC, and a transformer is used to generate 90VAC and 200VAC. The solid state relays will be used to switch the pneumatics for the tool changer, enable the oilier and the control the Spindle 200VAC Cooling Fan built into the spindle. A second relay is connected to the charge pump out to enable the 24VDC Z Axis break.
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We knew the ATC was messed up when got the machine as indicated from the previous owner, so I decided to investigate it first. I needed to move the Z Axis up so the Tool Ram would have clearance to move under the Spindle Nose and we could get access to all ATC parts easily. A floor jack and some blocks of wood were used to hold Spindle Head while the Z Brake was disconnected. The Spindle Head moved up and down with ease using the jack.
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Nice clean shop you've got. Certainly one to be proud of.
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4 Mach3 Outputs are used to drive the Pneumatics Solenoids: 1) Master Air Enable, 2) Tool RAM Extend, 3) Spindle Air Blast and 4) Tool Release. 4 Mach3 Inputs are also used to read the switches for these actions: 1) Ram Home, 2) Ram Extended, 3) Tool Release Home and 4) Tool Release Extended. A fifth input will be used to verify the pneumatics system has air pressure before the ATC can be initialized. (I haven’t hooked this input up yet, the BP412 has a pressure switch and it checked out with a DVM…) A Mach3 Test Screen with macros was created to test/debug the pneumatic part of the ATC.
The stock 20 years old air filter and air oilier were replaced with a new filter/oilier. There was an air pump/charge box? Not sure what is was or its functionality, but it was leaking air like crazy, so it was removed.
This video shows the ATC Ram and Carousel moving with Mach3 using our test screen:
http://www.youtube.com/v/8tLJ4iP9Ix4&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1
This video shows the ATC Tool Release moving with Mach3 using our test screen:
http://www.youtube.com/v/o9DrgaQSEAs&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1
Below is the Mach3 test screen, Control electronics and pneumatics
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Hi Joel,
Sorry if I overlooked it.....but are you using the original axis motors and drives ? If so, what are they ? If not, what do you have planned ?
Looking good so far.
I'd like to have one of similar size..........some day maybe.
Regards,
Russ
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Russ,
The current plan is to use the Stock Servos with new Digital Encoders, the stock encoders are analog. I have been working on Axis part off and on during the conversion, trying different encoders (400 CPR and 1000 CPR) and Servo Drivers (Gecko, Viper, CNCDrive) I haven’t come up with the best combination yet in terms of performance (holding force, acceleration, max speed, power supply considerations, tuning and integration into Mach3) still in the evaluation phase….
Here is a picture of the X Servo before I changed out the Encoder:
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The BP412 ATC only holds up to 12 tools. Mach3 supports up to ~256 tools and offsets. Most of the programs we write will use less than 12 tools, sometimes more than 12, and from program to program the tool list is not the same 12 tools.
To get around the ATC 12 position limit and utilize the Mach3 Tool Offsets, we created a table to list the tool numbers that are loaded in each ATC position (0 meaning empty). So the ATC position is not the same as the tool number being used. During a “M6 Tn” change, our Tool Change Macro looks at this table to see if and where the tool is located in ATC. If we find the tool, the carousel is moved to that position and the tool is loaded using the Mach3 Tool Offset value. If the tool is not found, the program will stop and prompt us to load the tool manually in the spindle.
This allows us to load up the ATC with the tools needed for a particular program, as each tool is loaded into the ATC, we just update the DROs in the Tool Table. (This has probably been done before, however I thought it was useful to mention)
Below is the Mach3 Tool Table:
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First off, Modbus in Mach3 ROCKS (they should sell it as an add on for $50.00)
We are lucky that our BP412 has a 6000 RPM 10Hp Fanuc Spindle Motor. The down side is it will take a LOT of power to just to run the Spindle and finding a VFD to run a 10Hp motor with single phase input power might be a challenge.
We ended up using a SpeedStar PC-75 (yes the means 7.5Hp), they make a 10Hp one, but the power input requirements for 10Hp is 220VAC at 72Amps, even the 7.5HP has a max power draw of 54Amps (I only have 50Amps dedicated for the Machine, hoping to keep up under 40Amps). Also the Spindle Motor is rated at 200VAC, so the VFD Parameters were adjusted to limit the output voltage to 200VDC. This thing is a monster, as shown in the picture.
The VFD support 485 Modbus, so can set the target frequency and monitor the current speed and power draw of the spindle in real time and display it on our Mach3 Screen! Getting the Mach3 Modbus working was fairly easy after watching the videos, but getting the VFD Speed integrated into the Mach3 system was guess work i.e. “M6 T1 S3000” (Note: for now I only running the Spindle at a MAX of 3000 during this testing phase, we’ll crank it up as my confidence grows in the system) The key things to get it integrated, is to the Max Speed in Pulley to 3000 RPMs and the MAX ADC Count (for our VFD, that means MAX output frequency 100.00Hz = 3000 RPMs)
Here is a test video of Mach3 Controlling the VFD while Monitoring Speed and Motor Amperage:
http://www.youtube.com/v/QUB8hFWrnfw&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1
Below are Pictures of the VFD, Motor Plate and Mach3 Config Screens
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Really nice build...I would not recommend going single phase though! These machines were built to run 3 phase..that head takes some moving...!
By the way hang onto the spindle motor and drive if you can..you have around $10,000 of high quality Fanuc gear there. You would have to spend some serious money to get anything that worked better!
My advice for what it is worth would be to buy a Galil card and some mitsubishi drives/motors off Ebay and stick with the fanuc spindle motor/drive combo.
It looks like a low hours machine...well worth spending on :)
Just my humble opinion... looking forward to seeing it finished
John.
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You could do rigid tap with the Fanuc set up and Galil card..but not with the VFD..
John
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Very good progress. Keep up the good work.
Daniel
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Just checked www.fanucge.com that Model 6 Spindle motor £4777,00 GBP!!!!!!
Not sure on the drive as I couldn't see the model number on the pics you have.
John
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I think this is the drive that normally goes with the Model 6 motor A06B-6044-H009 Ge Fanuc price £7466,00 GBP!!!!!!
John.
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John
Thanks for the advice as you raise some good points. We do have very nice Fanuc hardware here, but 3 phase is not an option for me. Sure I could get a rotary phase converter that draws 25Amps just sitting on the floor with nothing connected to it (we have one that we use to test 3 phase hardware before its converted to single phase, but we would not use it to run a machine full time, its very inefficient). 3 Phase, Single Phase, DC Bus, … you have think about power, each time you convert it, you lose some.
The Spindle Motor is AC 3 Phase for speed control only, the power input to the VFD or Fanuc Spindle drive doesn’t really matter it terms of performance as the VFD and Fanuc Spindle Driver convert the input power into a 500 to 800VDC Bus. Then they pulse width modulate this DC Bus to generate 3 Phase with a frequency range of 0.1Hz to 200.0Hz to control the RPMs of the Spindle while generating a voltage to match the motor voltage of 200VAC.
The rigid tapping feature is a good point. The old Fanuc Spindle drive had spindle orientation electronics on it used for the ATC Load/Unload spindle orientation and for rigid tapping. Mach3 supports rigid tapping as long as the hardware inputs are available, mainly a spindle rotation pulse (many others here on the forum use this feature). The old sensors are still on the Spindle and generate a quadrature output during rotation and the rotation pulse, so we should be able to use the ATC and rigid tap. However, I have not tested this feature yet.
JH
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When we purchased this machine, it was none functional. The ATC was not working and the Y Axis had some issues as indicated by the owner. The ATC Tool Carousel had a 200VAC Motor used to rotate the carousel and a starting capacitor located in the electronics cabinet. My guess is, the stock electronics would change the motor poll connected to staring cap to change its direction during startup of the motor (most AC motors can run in both directions depending on how the starter capacitor is connected). I didn’t fully investigate this as I planned to change out this 200VAC Motor and replace it with a Stepper. I left the stock gear box on the carousel drive and found a Vexta Stepper motor that would mount up. I liked the idea of stepper motor as it will be easy to control with Mach3. The rotation speed of the carousel is not as fast as the original drive, but I will take reliability over performance at this phase of the build.
There were 2 proximity switches on the ATC, 1 for each tool index and 1 for home (tool position 1). Both switches were functional, but the wires connecting them were broken inside. I guess after 20 years of flexing, the copper finally broke. You can see the wire nuts on the connectors, as if someone tried to fix it before. The good thing is, all the parts of the ATC are now functional! One of the videos above shows the ATC Carousel working under Mach3 Control.
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We needed a way to move the X and Y axis easily to test limit switches, home switches, and to help determine the total travel of the table. After moving the X and Y pulleys by hand for while, I though it would be easier to make a simple tool to mount into a drill to connect onto the end of the lead screws. This is not rocket science, but it was and is very helpful so I thought it was important to post. Helpfully it might help someone else out….
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The previous owner indicated an issue with the Y Axis but did not go into details. I didn’t know if it was a servo driver problem, servo motor, encoder, broken/intermediate wire, ball screw or thrust bearing. After removing the Y Axis covers, we noticed a bunch of fresh grease by the thrust bearing. The grease was pumped into a setscrew hole used to connect the Y Axis lead screw end cover. The grease was doing nothing here as far as I could tell?
When the pulley was rotated back and forth, I could tell that backlash was the issue and it looked like they attempted to fix it. After further investigation, the Y Axis thrust bearing was shot. If this is the only real issue with the machine, I will be very happy. I found a NEW replacement on eBay for $550.00, after the install, the Y Axis appears to have little to no backlash just like X Axis.
I need to get those servos up and running…
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Sounds good JH Would be awsome to see the machine doing rigid tap with Mach!
My friend has a 1995 version of this machine with Fanuc OTMate. They are a little work horse... he cuts aluminium 6082T6 at 1800mm/min no problem, the box ways make it a really solid machine. The Fanuc software is bullet proof too..not tried Mach yet but sounds like rev 4 will be a lot more sorted and I think Brian has finally got cut comp working (G41/42) I use G41/42 all the time on the Fanucs and wouldn't want to be without it!
John
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Hey JH,
Howzabout an update, there are some of us living vicariously thru your endeavors ya know.... peace
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Each of the 3 Axis use the same Servo Motor(SEM) and Encoder(Heidenhain). These encoders are analog and use a ‘flash light’ like lamp and light blocking set screws to calibrate/align the Encoder. I am sure these were rock solid in their day, but they have been removed and will be replaced. The analog phase shift technology is not combatable with the new servo drivers that we have been testing(Gecko, Viper and CNCDrive).
The stock BP412 machine had a resolution of 0.0003 and maximum speed of 300IPM (I need to double check this fact…)
To maximize the performance of the machine after the Mach3 conversion, the new encoder CPR/PPR is most important. The resolution of the machine should be as good or better than before and the maximum IPM speed should be as close to 300 as possible without going faster(NOTE: The trust bearings have an RPM limit of 2600, ie 260IPM, I guess the machine designers assumed you would not be running at 300IPM for long periods of time). Based on my calculations, an encoder with 100 Counts Per Revolution (CPR) or 400 Pulses Per Revolution (PPR) should equate to a machine resolution of 0.00025 and 300IPM with a Mach3 Kernel Speed of only 20000Hz.
Below are some pictures of a stock Heidenhain Encoder and an Excel Spread Sheet I used to help with the Encoder Calculations:
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With the stock Heidenhain Encoders removed, we needed to mount the new digital 100CPR Encoders. I had some shaft couplers that would almost work with the new encoders. So a quick adaptor and mounting block was turned to mount them. Testing this setup is next on the list…
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Not sure about 400 pulses per rev as my old Fanuc DC motors on my Bridgeport BPC320 have 2500 ppr...and the machine is rated at 0.001 mm accuracy but in real terms will manage around 0.005 mm accuracy due to temp change etc.
John
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Hey John,
The CPR/PPR does not correlate 1:1 to machine Accuracy or Repeatability. Yes, if the CPR/PPR is low you will decrease machine Accuracy but the Repeatability would remain the same.
I have not checked the specs in a while on the BP412, but I think the stock Accuracy was rated 0.0003in (0.008mm), with the 100CPR/400PPR we should get 0.00025in (0.006mm), just a little better than stock and very close to your 0.005mm. I do not think the Accuracy can be increased much more than stock, due to the belt drive, thrust bearing and ball screw Accuracy stack-ups.
After a quick check on new Harding/Bridgeport XR760, I found it’s rated at 0.00024in Positioning Accuracy. I think we are on track with this, please correct me if we are off.
Link to XR760 Specs
http://www.hardingeus.com/productView.asp?prodID=50 (http://www.hardingeus.com/productView.asp?prodID=50)
Thanks,
JH
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Hi JH,
Yes I agree unless you put the encoders directly onto the ball screws with couplings it would be hard to improve over the original machine accuracy spec.
I think your calculations are correct just be a case of testing and seeing how well the figures actually come out under machining conditions!
My Bridgeport is a horizontal and was actually built for Bridgeport by Yasda in Japan under licence so it was built with high accuracy and thermal stability in mind hence the good results I seem to get...but I still think the machine manual is a tad over optimistic!
Great to see a full size machine getting the Mach 3 treatment..looking forward to more updates!
John
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How are you controlling the spindle orientation with your VFD, so that the tool change can take place?
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How are you controlling the spindle orientation with your VFD, so that the tool change can take place?
The plan is to us the stock spindle orientation sensors with Mach3 to signal the VFD when to stop.
During a tool change the spindle speed will be set to a slow speed ( maybe 50 RPMS), then Mach3 will monitor the Spindle Home Sensor and count n number of pulses from the orientation encoder before signaling the Spindle to Stop. While the Spindle is stopping and slowing, Mach3 will continue to count to verify the Spindle is in the correct position. If its not in the correct position, these steps will be repeated until its correct, up to 3 times or so before generating an error and stopping.
I might even add some code to automatically adjust the triggering point to teach Mach3 with to signal the Spindle to stop during each tool change.
However, this is only the plan.... I have not tried it yet.
Ideas are welcome :)
Thanks,
JH
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JH,
Nice looking project. What are you going to use for break out and machine/computer interface?
Monty
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Thanks Monty,
So far, for the core machine I/O, I am using 2 CNC4PC C10 breakout boards with a C4 Charge Pump on 2 Parallel Ports. This covers the 3 Axis and Home Sensors, Tool Changer Motor, Pneumatic I/O, and Various Sensor Inputs and Coolant Control.
The Spindle ON, OFF, REV, FWD, SPEED, RPM Monitor and Current Monitoring is all done via Modbus using a simple USB to RS484 converter.
This is working well so far, still playing with the servo encoders, acceleration profiles and tuning the 3 Axes. I hope to have this finalized soon and start integrating the tool changer to the Spindle. (Need Spinlde orientation for tool changes and taping)
For the User Interface, I am looking at PoKeys or NC Pod, something like that to handle all the inputs. No sure yet.
Thanks,
JH
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I spent the last couple of weeks evaluating drivers and encoders. Evaluated Viper200, CNCdrive Whale3, CNCdrive Dugong and the old stand by Gecko 320…. Ended up using Gecko 320s, 100CPR/400PPR HEDS Encoders with an 80Volt DC PS. (86VDC no load)
The Viper200 was hard to tune, several times it had a runaway condition without generating an error and slamming the table into the mechanical stops.
CNCdrive Whale3 was very promising for the first 3 hours until the driver failed. Customer support was great and they sent me a new CNCdrive Dugong upgrade for FREE for to test.
CNCdrive Dugong also was very promising with 35 Amps of drive. I am saving this one for the Mori Seiki CNC Lathe Project….
Gecko 320s were easy to tune, and I also had 3 of these left over from older project, the performance was fine for the X and Y (250IPM with 0.00025/step) I didn’t prototype the Z axis yet, but the servo motor is the same so my guess is it will work fine. It looks Gecko has a new driver too, one that you can change the servo error limit. Bottom line is, I am happy with this configuration as is for now, if I need performance I can swap it out later.
Below is a picture of the Power Supplies with Gecko 320 Drivers being assembled:
I should have the XYZ running soon under this configuration. I’ll post a movie when its up and running.
JH
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Small update of the Gecko 320 Drivers and Power Supplies...
JH
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I see a major problem. The Captain Morgan cup is EMPTY! You'll be making chips before ya know it. Is there going to be a transformer for each axis?
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LOL, the Caption was full the night before… I guess its time to clean up my mess in the shop.
Yes, the plan is to have a 3 Power Supplies, one for each Axis. The toroidal transformers that I have are only rated at 800VA, so each system can supply 10Amps at 80VDC (i think this is how it works, I not measured it under a load…) The monster cap is to help with supplying more current during heavy acceleration and deceleration of the servos.
During the testing of the X and Y, I only used 1 power supply shared between them. I could see the output voltage dropping as low as 72VDC. I didn’t want the voltage drop or back EMF to effect the other axis when running. At least that’s the theory.
JH
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The 3 Power Supplies are now completed with the X, Y and Z Axis integrated and tuned. Used some high tech encoder covers to protect them (don’t worry, there is metal protector as well). The performance has been good on the X and Y, getting rapids as fast as 250 IPM, however the Y axis will faults sometimes. So we down graded to 200 IPM, and the X and Y run all of the time with no issues.
The Z Axis is working, but I have not connected it to the ball screw yet. Working on the eStop - Gecko integration first, I do not want the spindle head to slam down if the driver fails. The Z Axis brake is functional and working with eStop, just want to get some confidence first before going live.
Thanks,
JH
http://www.youtube.com/v/QiVjo3Pr9qE&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1
Below are the high tech encoder covers
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;D That's what I call hillbilly engineering at its finest! Somebody had "a little captain in 'em" when that light bulb flashed overhead. :D Looks great, Joel. I bet it feels good to see some movement.
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What is your acceleration set at on the x and y axis? What are the specs of the servo motors? Have you had any luck with the spindle orientation?
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The acceleration is set to 15 for both the X and Y using the 100CPR/400PPR encoders. I am still turning the Z so its not final as of yet, still working on interfacing eStop with the drivers as time permits.
The servos are the stock BP412 ones with new encoders.
Have not started on the Spindle Orientation.
Thanks,
JH
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Hi JH, I wanted to ask if you used the original driver of the machine, if so, could share information about them since I have such a machine and I'm thinking of doing the conversion. Excuse my English but I am doing for a translator as they only understand Spanish.
Thanks
Mod-Mec
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JH,
That sure is looking good. I'm following and taking notes.
JAckal ;D
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JH,
That sure is looking good. I'm following and taking notes.
JAckal ;D
Thanks Jackal!
Its been slow getting time to work on the BP 412 Project, Spring and Summer keeps me busy working on bike and parts. I should get time as Summer starts to roll off.
Thanks,
JH
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It’s been several months since I worked on the VMC. The Tool Changer Carousel has been on my mind since we added the stepper to control it. The stock changer used a large AC motor that was “broken” we got the machine…. or was it? After doing some work this summer on some other AC motor systems, one having a bad starter capacitor, made me think, was the starting capacitor bad?
After digging out the old Tool Changer Carousel Motor (pack rat) and getting a fresh 3uF starting cap… the old motor works great !!!
The stepper motor used (3) digital outputs, Step, Dir and Enable and the AC motor only needed (2) Dir and Enable. From the video below, the performance of much better than before and uses (1) less IO line. We control the direction based on how the starting capacitor is wired during before it’s connected to power.
Thanks
JH
http://www.youtube.com/v/nvGSRYS_9nI&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1
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After setting for a several months, the Y Axis was faulting again. I was generally pleased with the Gecko Drives and Stock Servos with the new digital encoders, however, the performance should be better on the this machine. After slowing down the acceleration and speed profile again to prevent the fault, I have decided to scrap the current X Y Z plan…
We been evaluating a NEW match set of 30 in/LB 750 Watt AC Servo/Driver from MachMotion.com So far this system has been working great on the bench and we just connected it to the Y Axis. Using the software provided by the Servo Driver Manufacture, we are able to move the Y Axis better than we have before. Below is a picture of the new AC servo and the machining of the mounting bracket to fit it to the machine:
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One of the cool things that I like about this system that is not advertised on the MachMotion site, is the electronic gear box parameters. The servos have 2500 lines on the encoders that generate 10,000 pulses per revolution that would normally make for a very slow system. However, the electronic gear box setting allow you select the resolution on the axis you want (ie: 0.0002 in/step), this allows for both accuracy and speed when connected Mach3. It’s a programmable step multiplier with a scale from 0.005 to 200.
A second plus is the software CD from the manufacture. This application allows you to dynamically monitor various parameters like Load, RPM, Current, etc in real-time. You can also program and tweak all the parameters and setting on the user interface and save them off as a backup. This makes setting up X and Z axis easy too.
Here are a couple of the software screens from the CD included with the servo driver:
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Looks like your gonna have a great machine when you git'er all done, Joel.
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One of the cool things that I like about this system that is not advertised on the MachMotion site, is the electronic gear box parameters. The servos have 2500 lines on the encoders that generate 10,000 pulses per revolution that would normally make for a very slow system. However, the electronic gear box setting allow you select the resolution on the axis you want
you have a 2500 line encoder that is 10,000 pulses per revolution
so if connectd direct with for example 5mm ball screw then you would need 10,000/5 =2000 steps per unit
at 3000rpm that would be 2000 x 3000 =6,000,000 pulse per min
divide by 60 and you get 100.000KHz pulserate required.
then i think you need SS for 100Khz.
now electronic gear ,i think we can use for when i dont want use SS.
for example , mach send 1000 pulse and gear box convert to 3000 pulse.
If I make mistakes,pls correct.
Amir
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Step multipliers are common with high resolution encoders. The ones that I have used before are typically programmable from 2x 4x 8x and 10x. What is nice about the TSTA20C, is that you can select and ratio from 0.005x to 200x.
On our VMC, we have 5 turns per inch ball screw and a 2:1 drive pulley for a total of 10:1 (10 turns on the servo will move the table 1 inch) The encoder has 2500 lines with 10,000 pulses per revolution. So with a target Mach3 Step/inch of 0.000125 (or 8000 Steps/Inch) I would need a 12.5x step multiplier. My target max RPM is 2500 or 250 IPM (limited by the stock thrust bearing rating), therefore we can set the Mach3 kernel speed to 35Mhz.
Attached is a spread sheet that we used for the calculations. There are 2 examples, the one described above and one with 0.0001 steps/inch target. The Numerator and Denominator values is what the driver needs for the electronic gear box setting. Based on that ratio, the Mach3 kernel speed required to generate the pulses for a target IPM is also calculated.
Screen shots of the kernel speed and motor tuning are in the spread sheet too.
Hope this helps,
JH
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Been thinking a lot about how the spindle orientation will work. The stock machine has a Spindle Encoder and Spindle Home Sensor connected off the spindle with a small pulley as shown in the picture below:
After doing some test attempting to stop to spindle and decelerate to the same spot each time, I have learned that this almost works. I can get it to stop close to the same spot, but not good enough for a reliable tool change. Its only off by a couple of degrees, enough to consider a different plan.
The new plan: replace the stock encoder mechanism with a small dc servo while keeping the mount and 1:1 pulley. Add a home position notch and senor to the pulley. Keeping the server motor disable while the spindle is on, the switch on the servo when the spindle if off, find home on the pulley and index to tool change orientation position.
Concerns: Q: the servo will turn into generator when the spindle is on and back drive the servo driver. A: use a relay to disconnect the servo motor from the driver outputs and connect only during a tool change, make sure the servo driver is in reset when the outputs are connected and disconnected.
Some additional pictures below of the servo mount under construction:
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Hi have you still got the Fanuc spindle drive? It should do the spindle orientation and work with the encoder as that is what it is set up to do. Not sure if you could get this to work with Mach though?
I have the same Fanuc drive on my Bridgeport..1984 vintage and still works great...orientation is spot on never misses a beat!
John
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John,
Its long gone..... 3 phase is not an option for me. This machine will run on 220VAC 30Amps Single Phase when we are done with it.
Thanks,
JH
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Sorry JH forgot you are running single phase..keep up the good work!
John
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No problem, not like everyone in world should remember the current status of this project LOL :)
JH
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JH,
man its great to see someone else performing bridgeport surgery. ive got a 1989 interract 142, but i started with the camsoft plan........
bought the pro version and ran with the illusion that i could make this thing work like a swiss watch.....i've been on that project for almost a year.
i put servo dynamics servos with encoders, replaced the limits switches and added home switch capability, added an mpg with touch screen. the works....
but, that software may be very capable but it is very not user friendly and very..very clanky....(technical term...) when i use the mpg there is a delay of a sec or two before movement
and i cant seem to make smooth movements under load..not to mention the screen, interface, and parameters are handled through an archaic dos like operating system.
i decided to dump the camsoft and run mach3, i really want to learn how the tool changer is handled for programming. i love the mach i use in my other small machine its worked flawlessly from day one......i just didnt think it had the capability to run the larger machine with a toolchanger...
steve
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The DC Servo Motor was successful in that it could turn the large spindle when connected to a simple DC Power Source. However, as servo system it was very difficult to tune and had problems controlling the large load at low RPMs.
Since the application needs high torque at low speeds, we tried a large stepper motor. This method seems to work well. I used some relays to disconnect the motor outputs from the stepper driver when the spindle is running and only connect them when we want to orientate the spindle for a tool change. This might not be the best solution, but it is working for now.
We have ran the test over a 1000 times with success. The deceleration of the motor from the home sensor was an issue at first, in the video you can see that make sure the motor is at full speed before looking for the home switch.
http://www.youtube.com/v/Xo_WdSXmuWg&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1
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Hey JH,
unless you are already happy with what you have, I can offer to you some good solutions for tool rotation indexing that I have used on retrofits.
there are several methods that work well, and range in price (for your parts), depending on how you want to do it.
if you have control over the Spindle motor speed and can drop it down to a slow turn rate, i.e. like 50rpm and stuff, there are some simple and very accurate "other" options you can do with native mach3, to get accurate indexing.
give me a hollar if you want to......... BTW: put some louder "slip-ons" on the Pig and did the breather thing, and tuning thing. Now the beast is MUCH loader, has more power, and backfires alot (on decelerating), which pisses off the dogs, and scares old ladies......... both are very cool to me........ hehehhee.
scott
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What controller was originally on your 412???
mine doesnt have the spindle encoder but rather has a magnetic pickup for one pulse per rev and indexing..
but there is a small vbelt groove on the spindle currently unused, where i can add a small belt driven encoder..
thanks for posting the pics, you got me thinking now....
steve
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What controller was originally on your 412???
Heidenhain TNC 155
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After selling off all the stock controls and hardware a while back, the cabinet is nice and empty. Starting with the LCD Screen first, my plan is to cut the opening a little and mount the screen inside. I have a keyboard with trackball on some of the other machines and like that so I plan to do the same on this project. Not a big fan of touch screens, I like buttons and lights. The MPG will be fixed to the cabinet similar to the stock control. This should leave a large section for button and lights and with self on the bottom for small tools and stuff.
For the I/O hardware, I am using a PoKeys USB device. I haven’t messed around with it more than a couple of hours, but so far it’s working great.
External Button Feature wise, I plan to have the flowing:
eStop/Reset with Red LED
Cycle Start with Green LED, Feed Hold, Stop,
Coolant with Blue LED,
MPG, Axis selection, Axis resolution
Feed override, RPM override
Open for ideas here…. What would you add if you could do it over?
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The XY and Z Axis are functional with the new AC Servos, Spindle Orientation is functional with the Stepper Motor, the ATC Carousel and Tool Management Software is working, the Spindle is functional under MOD Buss Control, the Draw Bar is operational…. Time to integrate these systems and test.
http://www.youtube.com/v/3W-LRS9eSFg&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1
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Damn man that thing is really starting to run like a VMC!!! Nice work... I am insanely jealous of that thing and I am gonna get something like it come hell or high water. Looks like you are getting things figured out nicely. I would like to hear what poppabear has to say about alternative means of indexing spindles. I have a sensorless vector drive on my rf4r5 and I am considering changing the spindle for something else that would require indexing. Anyways, really nice work and that is gonna be some machine when you are running. Any idea how long until you can make a test run cutting metal... Peace
Pete
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Spent some time on the control panel this weekend, got the screen is mounted in the old control box, made a frame for the screen and a blank panel that will be used for all the buttons and switches. Also added a keyboard mount to the bottom. A little sanding with DA and some paint, turn out nice.
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The XY and Z Axis are functional with the new AC Servos, Spindle Orientation is functional with the Stepper Motor, the ATC Carousel and Tool Management Software is working, the Spindle is functional under MOD Buss Control, the Draw Bar is operational
. Time to integrate these systems and test.
http://www.youtube.com/v/3W-LRS9eSFg&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1
Looks great. Just wondering what the max axis rapid speeds will be on this set up and what are the limiting factors ie. hardware or software.
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Looks great. Just wondering what the max axis rapid speeds will be on this set up and what are the limiting factors ie. hardware or software.
Thanks! In the video, its running X and Y at 250IPM and the Z at 200IPM. I have not tried to MAX it out yet, just getting the system together and tested with ATC. The stock machine only ran at 300IPM, I think this is achievable with the new AC Servos.
As far as limitations, the only thing left to implement is taping. I plan to cross this bridge when I get there.
Thanks,
JH
(get it working first, then optimize)
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Great to see a real vmc get the Mach treatment ;D
John
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Very nice progress on the machine! How are you doing the tool carousel indexing and keeping track of it in Mach? Do you have any feedback from the carousel to know the current slot when Mach starts?
Thanks
Dennis
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Very nice progress on the machine! How are you doing the tool carousel indexing and keeping track of it in Mach? Do you have any feedback from the carousel to know the current slot when Mach starts?
Thanks
Dennis
The ATC carousel has a HOME switch and an INDEX switch. I have an ATC init macro that searches for the HOME switch with a timeout and sets a user DRO to pos 1, then the INDEX switch is used to make sure the pos either increments or decrements correctly, also with a timeout for fault management.
There is a custom screen I use to track the carousel pos and witch tools are in each carousel slot. This way I can easily use an tool number in any carousel position just by updating the DROs. During a tool change, the tool table is search for the new tool and the fastest rotation direction is then calculated. Error checks are done to ensure the new tool is in the ATC before continuing.
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Got some sample buttons in with LED back lighting. These square buttons are used on arcade machines and are of good quality. Now that the size of the buttons are final, I was able to layout the control panel and choose the colors of the buttons. The rest of the buttons should be in house in a couple weeks.
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Great work.
thx for sharing your experiences
Amir
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Mach3 can only rigid tap if the spindle is under tight STEP / DIR control. STEP / DIR control converted to an analog signal +-10VDC then to a VFD does not have the tight control that you need for rigid tapping. You must have a servo or stepper to do rigid tapping. The real issue is the deceleration of VFD into the hole and the acceleration out of the hole and syncing this to the Z axis.
Sense we have a VFD we cannot sync the Z Axis to the Spindle. So ..... we purchased a Floating Tap Holder. This allows for small amounts of control error between the Z axis and Spindle.
Below is the video of the initial testing using a G84 Tap Cycle with a floating tap holder. These are ¼ 20 threads on a ½ plate of 6061.
http://www.youtube.com/v/nQS2Q_aC_P4&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1
Thanks
JH
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cooooooool
Amir
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Started on the paint… Each part has to be degreased and sanded before the new oil based paint is applied. Also making some custom covers to go over several modifications that have been done to the machine over the years.
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Hey man,
Cannot believe how nice this thing is coming out. Very cool build and I am again insanely jealous that you are gonna have a nice VMC under Mach control. Really like the color, kinda reminds me of my Lathemaster grey/tan/white I painted my machine. Just a clean looking color and seems to last well altho some lubes I found can stain it. This is really gonna be a useful machine when it is finished and that toolchanger is looking really nice too. It looks like you have invested some pretty good cash in it with the AC servos and whatnot but when you get it all together and make your first cool machined chopper part you GOTTA post a cool completed video of the machine running. Peace
Pete
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Hey man,
Cannot believe how nice this thing is coming out. Very cool build and I am again insanely jealous that you are gonna have a nice VMC under Mach control. Really like the color, kinda reminds me of my Lathemaster grey/tan/white I painted my machine. Just a clean looking color and seems to last well altho some lubes I found can stain it. This is really gonna be a useful machine when it is finished and that toolchanger is looking really nice too. It looks like you have invested some pretty good cash in it with the AC servos and whatnot but when you get it all together and make your first cool machined chopper part you GOTTA post a cool completed video of the machine running. Peace
Pete
Pete,
Thanks ! I am very happy on how things are turning out. Old iron is great, boxed ways, ATC, ... new electronics and Mach3 !
I am looking forward to getting the paint done and the sheet metal put back on. After that is the coolant system.
Thanks,
JH
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With the machine basically functional, I thought I would snap a couple of pics of the electronics used before the all the sheet metal is back on.
JH
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Good stuff, Joel. Thanks for sharing it with us!
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Got some time on the Control Panel between coats of paint. Added a keyboard with build in mouse / track ball. Made the buttons labels on the vinyl plotter. Only a couple of buttons are functional now. Need to hook up the PoKeys next for the rest...
JH
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Where did you get your square buttons?
Thanks
Vince
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I'm guessing an arcade game supplier?
Dave
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Where did you get your square buttons?
Thanks
Vince
Good guess Dave ! Mine as well.
Russ
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,13365.msg107233.html#msg107233
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Yep, these are Arcade Video Game Buttons. Nice too, LED back light with SPDT micro switch. Got em off of ebay from user hklwh123 but there are many others that sell the same ones, some rectangle and some round.
I bought just a couple to to make sure the quality was good and to measure them, then went back and bought the rest with a couple of spares.
JH
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Been painting and putting the sheet metal back on in phases while making sure all the parts fit right. Made a simple way cover for Y Axis out of some rubber sheeting and 6061. Added a couple of 120VAC computer fans with external filters to cool the cabinet.
Its starting to look nice now, its sooooo much cleaner that when I started. Thinking I'll need to add some graphics to that blank canvas before its over....
JH
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Here are some quick pics of the remaining sheet metal in work. Degrease, sand, grind, weld holes....
JH
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Hi JH looks really nice! Do you spray the paint on or use a roller?
Would have stuck to the flexi metal y axis cover which hangs over the turcite coated brackets though. I've found the rubber type can snag on the table front during x axis moves and also sag onto the ball screw when the swarf starts building up!!
John
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What an awesome project log, thank you very much for sharing, you have inspired me to get cracking with my machine.
I am going to attempt to hook my vsd up to mach using RS485 like you have, i have brought a USB to RS485 converter. Can you please explain the maths behind setting the Max ADC count to 10000? any other info you have on making this happen would be appreciated.
Keep up the good work.
First off, Modbus in Mach3 ROCKS (they should sell it as an add on for $50.00)
We are lucky that our BP412 has a 6000 RPM 10Hp Fanuc Spindle Motor. The down side is it will take a LOT of power to just to run the Spindle and finding a VFD to run a 10Hp motor with single phase input power might be a challenge.
We ended up using a SpeedStar PC-75 (yes the means 7.5Hp), they make a 10Hp one, but the power input requirements for 10Hp is 220VAC at 72Amps, even the 7.5HP has a max power draw of 54Amps (I only have 50Amps dedicated for the Machine, hoping to keep up under 40Amps). Also the Spindle Motor is rated at 200VAC, so the VFD Parameters were adjusted to limit the output voltage to 200VDC. This thing is a monster, as shown in the picture.
The VFD support 485 Modbus, so can set the target frequency and monitor the current speed and power draw of the spindle in real time and display it on our Mach3 Screen! Getting the Mach3 Modbus working was fairly easy after watching the videos, but getting the VFD Speed integrated into the Mach3 system was guess work i.e. “M6 T1 S3000” (Note: for now I only running the Spindle at a MAX of 3000 during this testing phase, we’ll crank it up as my confidence grows in the system) The key things to get it integrated, is to the Max Speed in Pulley to 3000 RPMs and the MAX ADC Count (for our VFD, that means MAX output frequency 100.00Hz = 3000 RPMs)
Here is a test video of Mach3 Controlling the VFD while Monitoring Speed and Motor Amperage:
http://www.youtube.com/v/QUB8hFWrnfw&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1
Below are Pictures of the VFD, Motor Plate and Mach3 Config Screens
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What an awesome project log, thank you very much for sharing, you have inspired me to get cracking with my machine.
I am going to attempt to hook my vsd up to mach using RS485 like you have, i have brought a USB to RS485 converter. Can you please explain the maths behind setting the Max ADC count to 10000? any other info you have on making this happen would be appreciated.
Keep up the good work.
Thanks! The RS485 trick is easy, make sure you watch the ModBus videos first. The only thing I can tell you, is set the max pully speed to your max RPM. Then set the frequency to reach the max RPM in the ModBus setup. Mach3 will convert and send out the the frequency required for the target RPM.
I did find that some RPMs were not working, not sure if its a Mach3, ModBus or VFD issue. It was only on frequencies that had a rounding up that I had a problem with (ie 75Hz worked, 75.3Hz worked, but 75.6Hz would NOT) To work around this, I added a check to the spindleSpeed.m1s macro to check for this rounding error and adjust the output frequency up until the math was correct (maybe 1 or 2 RPMs more)
Thanks,
JH
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Hi JH looks really nice! Do you spray the paint on or use a roller?
Would have stuck to the flexi metal y axis cover which hangs over the turcite coated brackets though. I've found the rubber type can snag on the table front during x axis moves and also sag onto the ball screw when the swarf starts building up!!
John
We used oil based paint, brush and roller. The heavy oil based stuff 'flows' out nice hiding the brush and roller marks
The ball screws are covered with metal plates so the rubber can not sag onto them, the rubber only covers the ways and plate covers. Its think and works well for us.
Thanks,
JH
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Paint and Graphics update !!! With the covers on, we created some graphics with Roland CX24. All we need new glass and coolant.
Enjoy the pixs....
The mill is as clean as it every will be again,
JH
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What is all the square push buttons? Is it duplication of the buttons on Mach3?
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The paint looks great, really like the pendant!
John
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What is all the square push buttons? Is it duplication of the buttons on Mach3?
Some are duplicates and some are not. Mainly the things that we will use all the time.
Thanks
JH
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Got the coolant tank patch up, cleaned up and painted. I have 2 pumps, going to try the smaller one first.
Thanks,
JH
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Small pump should be plenty I would think. Nice looking Mori there :)
Hood
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Small pump should be plenty I would think. Nice looking Mori there :)
Hood
Thanks! Thats the SL1 to Mach3 Project I have planned for Spring 2011. Can't wait to did into that beast!
JH
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She's absolutely beautiful, JH- really nice job.
Dave
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She's absolutely beautiful, JH- really nice job.
Dave
Thanks Dave,
Just need time......to finish it up. Doors, new glass and coolant testing. The holidays will slow things down even more, but thats OK :)
JH
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Indeed, don't want to get too burnt out on everything ;)
Dave
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Looking forward to see the mori getting done :) Hopefully Brian will have made some progress to Turn by then.
Hood
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Jh,
That is one good looking machine. Excellent job!!!! 8)
JAckal :)
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JH,
nice job, looks great..would you consider sharing your toolchange routine with me?? i have a similar machine
and would rather modify a macro than try to start at the beginning. as i have zero experience writing any vb..
i realize that you have some unique mods but i think it would be a good start for me..
steve
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Steve,
The one ZIP file contains all the macros for the machine to date. Including the ATC, DrawBar, ModBus, VFD, ect. I am still working on the User Interface with PoKeys Buttons therefore these are not included in this set. All my macros have timeouts so while waiting on input to change, if it doesn't change the software will not lock up, but eStop with a message of the error. I also keep a list of the Macros Names and Functions so its easy for me to track, see below:
Buttons
M1000 Tool RAM Extend
M1001 Tool RAM Home
M1002 Initialize ATC
M1003 Spindle Air Blast
M1004 Spindle Tool Release
M1005 DEC ATC Position
M1006 INC ATC Position
M1051 VFD STOP
M1052 VFD REVERSE
M1053 VFD FORWARD
M1080 Spindle Orientation
M1100 BIG TEST BUTTON
M1110 "X0 Y0" Button
M1111 "X0 Y0 Z1" Button
M1112 Set Park Position
M1113 Move to Park Position
M1114 Toggle Auto Parking on M30 (M400)
M1999 System INIT (Ref ZYX to home and ATC Init)
M2000 Force ATC to uninitialized during a RESET
Functions
M1101 Sets the ATC Position Number and Updated the LEDs
M1102 ATC Reset Function
UserDROs
1000 ATC Current Position ( 1 - 12 )
1100 Spindle RPM
1101 Spindle Target Hz
1102 Spindle Current Hz
1103 Spindle Current Amps
1200 Current Spindle Tool Number
1201 ATC Tool 1
...
1212 ATC Tool 12
1300 Park X
1301 Park Y
1302 Park Z
UserLEDs
1000 ATC Carousel Initialization Flag
1001 ATC Carousel Pos 1
...
1012 ATC Carousel Pos 12
1013 ATC Unloading State
1014 ATC Loading State
1015 ATC Tool Ram
1016 ATC Air Blast
1017 ATC Draw Bar
1104 Spindle Running Forward
1105 Spindle Running Reverse
1300 Auto Parking Enable
2000 Test LED for PoKeys
User Lables
1 ATC Debug Message
2 ATC Status
3 Tool Change Time
The Screen Set and BMPs are in the second ZIP file.
If you have questions, please let me know,
JH
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Thanks for sharing. I know you have alot of work invested.
Steve
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Hey JH,
Looking over your macros, nice work, btw...... Here is something that may help your efficency.
you using counting loops, but you could replace those with VB Timers if you want, they are ms granularity.
and you have upto 25 seperate ones....
i.e.
SetTimer(0) 'starts that timer running/or resets it to zero
GetTimer(0) 'reads the value in ms after starting.
scott
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The User Interface is working great with the help of the PoKeys hardware. I was able to get simple Input Buttons, Matrix Key/Buttons, Output for LEDs and MPG all functional with PoKeys Hardware. The Macropump to run this is BIG, I added a state machine with parameters to gate/enable different functions based on the mode selected (RUN, ATC, OFFSET, MPG, or IDLE) Overall I am happy on how things turned out.
Below are some pixs of the hardware and a video with a quick demo of its functionality.
http://www.youtube.com/v/W0Ln6SgjeS4&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1
Thanks,
JH
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To cool dude, i want one!
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Nice work, Joel, thanks for sharing 8)
Dave
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Looks great and bet you are glad you went to AC servos :)
Hood
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Looks great and bet you are glad you went to AC servos :)
Hood
100% correct on that... When I start on that Mori Seiki SL1, it will be AC Servos from the get go.
JH
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Started on the Tool Probe. This was much easier than anticipated, which is not usually the case for me. I used an old ball touch probed that needed a new battery, head phone cable and a mono jack. Connected it to Probe/Digitize Input and made a real quick test with G31 and GetVar(2000)… Mach3 rocks!
Working on some new screens and real code now. After its debugged and tested, I’ll post some screen shots, code sample and a video.
JH
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The Tool Probe is now functional. After creating some new buttons and macros, I think its done for now. We can find the Top of Part, Edge of a Part, Conner of Part, Center of Part with Inside Diameter, and Center of Part with Outside Diameter.
You can change the Probe Touch Speed and Probe Rapid speed until your Position Error is small. The Position is tracked from run to run so you can see the accuracy of your system. You can also change the Search Diameter when looking for the Center of the Parts.
In the code, there are parameters for Probe Diameter and Touch Off Distances that can be changed for your setup. All down Z moves look for Probe Hits, so you will not ram your probe through your part.
http://www.youtube.com/v/Q-169zwYS4E&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1
JH
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And he even post's the code, spectacular!
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Excellent, can see myself having to do this ;D
Hood
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Love it! What a time saver! Well... now only got to find a probe to make me one :D
Dan
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Dan, you have a lathe, a probe should be easy to make ;)
Hood
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Hood,
Thought the above probe was self contained and not just a piece of metal that would close the circle through the part and mill table...? I would like to be able to probe plastic parts as well. I have an idea how to make one, but a cheap commercial one sounds easier ;)
Dan
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These probes, assuming its the same as I have, just have a battery and LED in them but rely on the material being conductive and the circuit being made via top half of probe, through bearings and body of machine, through work piece then to tip. I assume JH has removed the battery and LED and connected two wires instead. If thats the case then easy to make up a part to chuck, have a delrin sleeve then a probe tip inside that and you would end up with exactly the same.
Hood
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Adding to this I made a ball and pin type probe a while back so that it doesnt need conductive material and it works well apart from its a bit iffy now that it got submersed when the office upstairs flooded and the water ran down into my workshop and right on top of all my collets and holders :(
A guy I know made one similar in principle but instead of a circuit board he used a prox sensor above the stylus and he says its very repeatable. I have been thinking of making one but not got round to it yet.
Hood
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Will revisit this idea some time...
Dan
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Here are the buttons that I used, not the best buttons however, but a starting point if you choose... Also, if you look at the M1200 Macro, each button is processed via the switch statement below. This allows ALL the tool probe code to be in 1 file, instead of spread across several.
To use, just add the Macro and a VB Parameter to each of your buttons.
Your Mach3 Button Code might look like this for "X-" M1200 P6
' Process the selected tool probe button
buttonId = Param1()
Select Case buttonId
' XYZ Buttons
Case 1 buttonPosXNegY ' X+Y-
Case 2 buttonNegY ' Y-
Case 3 buttonNegXNegY ' X-Y-
Case 4 buttonPosX ' X+
Case 5 buttonNegZ ' Z-
Case 6 buttonNegX ' X-
Case 7 buttonPosXPosY ' X+Y+
Case 8 buttonPosY ' Y+
Case 9 buttonNegXPosY ' X-Y+
' ID and OD Functions
Case 10 buttonCircleID ' C-ID
Case 11 buttonCircleOD ' C-OD
End Select
Hope this helps,
JH
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These probes, assuming its the same as I have, just have a battery and LED in them but rely on the material being conductive and the circuit being made via top half of probe, through bearings and body of machine, through work piece then to tip. I assume JH has removed the battery and LED and connected two wires instead. If thats the case then easy to make up a part to chuck, have a delrin sleeve then a probe tip inside that and you would end up with exactly the same.
Hood
Hood, your right on. All you need is 1 wire from the tip, so I grabbed the wire just before the LED and removed the rest. The ground is via the machine IRON
JH
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JH,
My Hat is off to you! That is a very, very nice macro, truely a work of art!!!
scott
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Getting props from Poppabear, thats saying something!
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JH,
My Hat is off to you! That is a very, very nice macro, truely a work of art!!!
scott
Thanks.... If you posting code, make sure its clean :)
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Time for coolant! But before we start, we need to add bubbles to keep it fresh. Since the way oil will get into the coolant on this mill, you need bubbles to keep the O2 breathing bacteria alive, an oil skimmer will be added to remove the oil, however this will only once in a while.
Using some SS, the bubble rocks are held in place at the bottom of the tank. I then added a simple switch to the side of the mill to turn it on/off with out having to power up the mill.
JH
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I was planning on NEW glass for the windows, but the glass needs to 3mm think, not so easy to find here in the states without paying big bucks plus the work needed to cut it and clean the edges.... wine wine wine
Its only a milling machine that going to get dirty anyway? Right? What about those head lamp repair kits....the 3M rubbing and polishing compounds. Turns out its the same stuff we use to buff out clear-coat. After 15 minutes, the old glass is clean enough. (its good enough for the girls I go out with)
JH
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Suppose thats the good thing about living in Scotland, too bloody cold for the bacteria ;D
Have had coolant in one of my manual lathes for maybe 20yrs and its never gone smelly, quick skim of tramp oil every now and then and all is fine :)
Hood
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20 years? Holy smokes! How close do you live to a nuclear power plant? Does it glow green at night?
-
LOL, its pretty cool here even in the summer so the most I have had to do is top up and skim the crap oil off the top :)
Hood
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The Doors are installed! Cleaned, Sanded, Welded and Painted.....
We made a new door handle and welded it on, new rollers bearings on the bottom tracks and new chip whippers. Also made new removable access panels for the sides, the stock one were completely rusted out.
JH
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Looks beauitful Joel-
Dave
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Looking great :)
Hood
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So what is the first part that your going to make for a chopper?
RICH
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Not sure what the first production parts will be. This mill was intended for small runs of the same part. I've been making one-offs and small run on the other machines, so the real intent is to off load the small runs onto the new BP412 Mach3.
Most likely it will be the conversion triple tops for import springer front ends to use standard risers and bars and/or these really cool sissy bar mounts for chops.
JH
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Windows are installed! Well at least 2 of the 4 are installed.
Also made these monster soft jaws for the kurts, after some test cuts with the coolant on some sample parts, I placed 123 blocks in the vices and cut the parallels into the jaws. (tram it close, then cut it perfect)
JH
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Give it hell Joel! Looking great :)
Dave
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Do you chrome the pieces yourself, or send them out? If you send them out, do they charge you by the batch, or by the part?
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We send them out to St. Louis Plating, they do batch and part pricing depending on the number of parts. They do good work and are fair on pricing.
JH
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Final Summary
The mill has been running strong and I am gaining confidence in it each day. Its been making sample parts and so it time for a video.
I also wanted summarize some stats on the mill before and after the conversion to Mach3:
1) Position Accuracy: Before 0.0003, After 0.0002
2) Max IPM: Before 300, After 350
3) Power Consumption: Before 220VAC 3 Phase 50A, After 220VAC 1 Phase 40A
4) Spindle: Before 7.5HP 100% Duty Cycle 6000RPM, After 7.5HP 100% Duty Cycle 6000RPM
Pros of the Conversion: 1) Easy to fix and repair, 2) Tool Probe, 3) 4th and 5th Axis ready, 4) Support via Mach3 Forum, 5) ….
http://www.youtube.com/v/_bU0ZMuMGOk&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1
Thanks,
JH
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Hi,
This is my first reply to you thread but found it very interesting to read.
You must be very proud of the work you've done on this machine, I would if I were you.
Maybe some more video of you future work on your ''new'' CNC.
Congratulation and again, great work and keep posting.
Jeff
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Wow. Fantastic build.
Thanks for sharing.
Scott
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Nice build, I think you like working on Miilling machines more than choppers now. Amazing attention to detail you've done.
I retrofitted an older Bridgeport mill using the Viper200 drives running its SEM motors and they work well.
What did you do with the old bridgeport motors ? Were they still good ?
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Nice build, I think you like working on Miilling machines more than choppers now. Amazing attention to detail you've done.
I retrofitted an older Bridgeport mill using the Viper200 drives running its SEM motors and they work well.
What did you do with the old bridgeport motors ? Were they still good ?
I still have the old motors and plan to put them into the bargain basement with geckos and power supplies as a system. I did try the vipers and they worked good, but the AC Servos work great, very fast excelleration and power.
Your right, these old machines are like restoring an old car or truck, fun stuff
JH
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Joel,
Congrats on a superb effort and end result!
I read thru each of these pages intently as I have two similar machines.
They are a bit newer, Kryle's, similar size, same type tool changer, but linear ways, 16 tools, and Fanuc 0M with red cap AC motors.
My plan is to retro them as you have done with yours. The parameters have been messed up and/or lost in the 0M controls, and no luck
getting them back in correctly.....just as well, I hate Fanuc controls.
One question I have for you, could you use a servo on the tool carousel and treat it as an axis in Mach?
My machines have a small Fanuc servo to operate the carousel.
Also, the spindle orient situation:
You were getting within a few degrees with the AC motor alone.
How about a tapered "shot pin" arrangement operated with a small air cylinder that would pull the spindle into perfect position?
Just some thoughts as I will face the same challenges with my project(s)
Thanks
dan k
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I hate to jump back a few pages, but Im trying to mimic the tool probe setup. I am not very experienced with screen designer..... I have the buttons setup as buttons, I just dont understand how to mpa each button to the function and how to get the DROs setup and mapped, if someone who has done this can post some screen shots and how to do it with screens 4 I would sooo much appreciate it!
Im new to doing the screens thing so treat me as if I was a 4th grader please LOLOL
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I am trying to add some buttons to my control panel. I like the way yours work. I looked for some arcade buttons on ebay and the only square ones I found took 12V and 20mA current. I am using a pokeys device for IO. The manual says it can only handle 4 mA per output. How did you handle the lights on your buttons and do you have any info on the buttons you are using?
Thanks in advance,
Vince
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Joel,
Congrats on a superb effort and end result!
Thanks !
One question I have for you, could you use a servo on the tool carousel and treat it as an axis in Mach?
My machines have a small Fanuc servo to operate the carousel.
Yes, my first pass was using a stepper motor to control the tool carousel. But later I used a simple AC Motor and switched the starting cap for direction control. There is a BIG Cammed device that in the carousel, so the AC Motor works great. This was the stock design also.
Also, the spindle orient situation:
You were getting within a few degrees with the AC motor alone.
How about a tapered "shot pin" arrangement operated with a small air cylinder that would pull the spindle into perfect position?
Sure, there are many options on how to align them up, I think the shot pin would work. We are using a stepper motor and decelerate to the correct position, so far no issues yet. The thing about Mach, is that you can do just about anything with it, so making inprovements on a design is easy to embed
I hope to see your work on this too :)
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I hate to jump back a few pages, but Im trying to mimic the tool probe setup. I am not very experienced with screen designer..... I have the buttons setup as buttons, I just dont understand how to mpa each button to the function and how to get the DROs setup and mapped, if someone who has done this can post some screen shots and how to do it with screens 4 I would sooo much appreciate it!
Im new to doing the screens thing so treat me as if I was a 4th grader please LOLOL
Each button maps to the same macro code "M1200". But the parameters are what gets mapped to the specific function "P4", "P10", ect Also, you need to make sure you have set the DROs up for touch, rapid speeds, and circle diameter.
Hope this helps,
Joel
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I am trying to add some buttons to my control panel. I like the way yours work. I looked for some arcade buttons on ebay and the only square ones I found took 12V and 20mA current. I am using a pokeys device for IO. The manual says it can only handle 4 mA per output. How did you handle the lights on your buttons and do you have any info on the buttons you are using?
Thanks in advance,
Vince
I used 74LS05 (open collector) to buffer/drive the 12V Led at 20ma each. This work good for the LEDs that I wanted control one at a time. I do have some banks of LEDs/buttons that are lit up depending on the state of the state machine, these are all tied together and are driven with the a large power transister ( I think I used 3055 ... )
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I hate to jump back a few pages, but Im trying to mimic the tool probe setup. I am not very experienced with screen designer..... I have the buttons setup as buttons, I just dont understand how to mpa each button to the function and how to get the DROs setup and mapped, if someone who has done this can post some screen shots and how to do it with screens 4 I would sooo much appreciate it!
Im new to doing the screens thing so treat me as if I was a 4th grader please LOLOL
Here is your screen shot....
JH
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JH, I appreciate you taking the time with us and the questions.......
I have the buttons setup like your screen shot and I get an error while trying to run a button.
I have the 9 buttons setup so far, no dros yet, still trying to wrap my brain around that. I click on any of them and get an error !!! Z- Tool Probe did not reach target!!!
You said something about linking parameters numbers to case statements......... Could I get a little more info on this? Ohh hell, just up load the screenset LOLOLOLOL I can rip that apart! HAHAHHAA
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OK, I "THINK" I have the DRO`s setup now. Just added a DRO to the screen and gave it an OEM code of 1150, 1151 and 1350. Put numbers in the DRO and clicked on any of the buttons and Z moves. Trigger the probe, Z continues to go down.
Man, I hate trying to learn something new..........
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The z error means it never found the top of the stock after moving 1 inch.
The macro reads the value of the dros for touch and rapid speeds, so you need to have those dro with a value set, if they are not, the touch speed will be zero, therefore you will have no movement and never reach the target. So make sure you have the dros on your screen with the user code set as defined in the M1200 maco const table. Then set to the touch speed to 5 ipm or so, I made these dros so you can tune your system on the fly to match the accuracy of your machine.
JH
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[quote author=J
I used 74LS05 (open collector) to buffer/drive the 12V Led at 20ma each. This work good for the LEDs that I wanted control one at a time. I do have some banks of LEDs/buttons that are lit up depending on the state of the state machine, these are all tied together and are driven with the a large power transister ( I think I used 3055 ... )
[/quote]
Do you have a diagram that shows how this is wired? I am an electrician, not an electronics guy, but I can follow a schematic. I looked up the data sheet for a 74LS05 and don't see how this would be wire.
Thanks
Vince
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[quote author=J
I used 74LS05 (open collector) to buffer/drive the 12V Led at 20ma each. This work good for the LEDs that I wanted control one at a time. I do have some banks of LEDs/buttons that are lit up depending on the state of the state machine, these are all tied together and are driven with the a large power transister ( I think I used 3055 ... )
Do you have a diagram that shows how this is wired? I am an electrician, not an electronics guy, but I can follow a schematic. I looked up the data sheet for a 74LS05 and don't see how this would be wire.
Thanks
Vince
[/quote]
See if this quick schematic will help. Also is a Macro Pump used to map poKeys DROs(buttons) to Mach3 Outputs.
JH
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Thanks for the schematic, I will give it a try. I have to find a place to get the 74LS05. Radio Shack does not have any. I'm sure I can get some from DigiKey.
Vince
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Cool, let us know how it all works out for you.
JH
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OK, I "THINK" I have the DRO`s setup now. Just added a DRO to the screen and gave it an OEM code of 1150, 1151 and 1350. Put numbers in the DRO and clicked on any of the buttons and Z moves. Trigger the probe, Z continues to go down.
Man, I hate trying to learn something new..........
Did you make any progress on this ?
JH
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i tried setting it up on my testing pc, with no machine attached. To do all the button mapping ect. I mapped the probe to a key on the keyboard and start one of the macros and press the button on the keyboard. The probe LED lights up but the macro doesnt change......... I see that this is setup in inches, so I changed my native units to inches as well. Still no dice. Does it need a hardware probe on pin 15 or should what Im doing trigger the macros functions? Like I said, Im trying to "PROOF" it right now before implementing it on a machine.
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JH,
Hey man just thought I would drop a line here and tell you that you should be really proud of yourself man... you built one of the most kick ass CNC retrofits I have ever seen.... Amazing workmanship, amazing machine man.... Congrats. Wish I was your next door neighbor so I could come over and drool all over that thing because it is awesome... Peace
Pete
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i tried setting it up on my testing pc, with no machine attached. To do all the button mapping ect. I mapped the probe to a key on the keyboard and start one of the macros and press the button on the keyboard. The probe LED lights up but the macro doesnt change......... I see that this is setup in inches, so I changed my native units to inches as well. Still no dice. Does it need a hardware probe on pin 15 or should what Im doing trigger the macros functions? Like I said, Im trying to "PROOF" it right now before implementing it on a machine.
To get your hands around a Hardware Probe Project, you can test your probe without the M1200 Macro via the a MDI Command Line. Just type "G31 Z0 F5" on the MDI and your Z will move to ZERO or it will stop early if the probe signal trips. Make sure you have your probe input setup in Mach via the Input Screen.
I used this same method to test my probe with G31, before writing the M1200 Macro
Hope this helps.
JH
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JH,
Hey man just thought I would drop a line here and tell you that you should be really proud of yourself man... you built one of the most kick ass CNC retrofits I have ever seen.... Amazing workmanship, amazing machine man.... Congrats. Wish I was your next door neighbor so I could come over and drool all over that thing because it is awesome... Peace
Pete
Thanks Pete. Very kinds words....Thanks
This project was a huge learning experience for me and I really enjoyed it. (the day you stop learning is your last day)
I plan to start on my CNC Lathe soon, just trying to get a big block of time before I commit to it. This has several new things for me to over come...looking forward to digging into to.
JH
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Well, I seem to be making headway on this project.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbFvSJTBnDg
now, if I convert the numbers over to metric that are in the beginning of the script, I should be able to run in metric mode, is that a good assumption?
That and I need to find a better, higher precision probe.
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It looks like your up and running!
I would look at all the code and make changes anywhere movement is performed when converting to mm
JH
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Hey JH,
I am trying to do as you did here with your spindle IE running the modbus control thru mach3 . You mentioned a simple rs485 to mod io adapter, can you elaborate more on this. I have a TECO sensorless vector drive model JNEV-203-h1 and it has RS485 capability. Their adapter is like $20.00 and I am trying to figure out how to wire this up and get the kind of control you exhibit here. I am using the CNC4PC C11g board currently setup with 0-10v analog. What kind of computer side stuff did you need and how did you do this? If you want to take this to email I would not mind at all and I could get your number and call ya if this is kinda difficult to describe. I REALLY love what you did here and especially the rigid tapping. I am currently using a Tormach tension compression tapping holder and collets on my RF45CNC and if I could get Mach to do rigid tapping( did not even know that was possible) I would be in hog heaven. Speakin' of hogs hows the shop man.,.. My email is PetefromTN@Gmail.com.... thanks in advance and peace....
Pete
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Hey Pete,
I've been watching your thread on the Zone, it looks like your ready to tap ! You can "rigid tap" with a VFD and Mach, but if you use a floating tap holder then you can tap all day long. I use this feature ALL the time on this new machine.
As far as the RS485 ModBus, all you need on the PC side is a USB to RS485 dongle (20-30 buck on ebay) Read/Watch the ModBus videos and use the test feature in Mach to verify you can read/write the registers in your VFD. Depending on the features your VFD has, you should be able to set RPM, monitor AMPs, Temperature, ect.
Thanks,
JH
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Ya mean like this one....
http://cgi.ebay.com/USB-RS232-UART-TTL-RS485-Module-FTDI-FT232BM-BL-Chip-/130400051055?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e5c72df6f
Or like this one.......
http://cgi.ebay.com/USB-RS232-UART-TTL-RS485-Module-FTDI-FT232BM-BL-Chip-/130400051055?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e5c72df6f
I gotta admit I know nothing about this stuff... As I said I bought the Tormach TTS Tension compression holder and some collets and my spindle now has good torque and reversing so I should be able to accomplish this soon. I guess I will order up the Teco RS485 interface board and then whatever of these two auction you are saying I will need.. thanks for the input... I assume the videos you are talking about are on machsupport.. peace
Pete
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I think either one of those will work. Yes the Mach3 Training Videos :) Its hard to explain how to set it up, but once you do it.... you say "man that easy"
Let me know how it works out for you.
JH
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JH,
actually I posted two of the same links there, I was trying to show you these two for comparison....
http://cgi.ebay.com/PC-USB-RS232-RS485-UART-TTL-Signal-Converter-/180560121332?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a0a38cdf4
Or this one that looks simpler...
http://cgi.ebay.com/RS485-RS-485-DB9-Serial-USB-2-0-Adapter-Converter-/180533603407?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a08a42c4f
I watched those videos a little and not having the hardware here it is difficult to understand. What it sounds like to me is that Mach can test the device and output words as they call them or data bits in binary and you then know that you are in communication. Do you have to write VB code to get this to work with the spindle control as you show here? I just want to get it to control FWD/REV/STOP and maybe load metering... the rest would just be bells and whistles really... Let me know which one of these you think would be better for this hardware and I will order it and see what I can figure out on my own. Thanks for your help man.. peace
Pete
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With the machine basically functional, I thought I would snap a couple of pics of the electronics used before the all the sheet metal is back on.
JH
Hey JH, The machine turned out great and the retrofitting seemed to work out pretty seamlessly. I too just bought a BP 412 and planning on retrofitting and following this as a guide. It's a very nice write up. I was curious if you could possibly compile a hardware build list and suppliers for all the items you needed to retrofit this mill. I know the post covers most of the items but not all. I could pay you for this information. I started buying some of the hardware so far I bought 3 power supplies 5v,12v,24v. I bought the Po-keys, 2 CNC4PRO breakout boards, 1 safety charge pump, and the 5 solid state relays. The components I was curious of that I didn't see covered are as follows: In the picture that I quoted directly above the second breakout board there is a boards that's labeled but it's too fuzzy to make out it's function. Directly to the right of said board there is 3 more boards and what looks to be a capacitor. I'm assuming that's the starting cap you spoke up in regards to the ac motor driving your tool changer indexing? Directly to the right of the said cap there is another board that I'm unsure of what it is or it's function? Directly above that there is what I'm assuming to be your larger power supply 12,24v one and directly above that looks to be your 5v power supply. Above that is a 4 fuses and I wanted to know the value of those and there function? Also the large transformer more towards the middle of your setup where did you get that and what are it's specs? I'm assuming that's the transformer that sets the voltage in for your VFD for the spindle motor. I read the post about your choice in servo motors/drivers and VFD. I'm assuming the servo drives just take line voltage and act as a power suppy and controller? I was assuming the same to be true for the VFD but with that transformer there it must be bringing it down to 200V. That may be asking a lot and again I don't mind paying for such information. I just see you have all the kinks worked out and instead of me stumbling through my retrofit I'm gonna use yours as a so to speak step by step guide. Thanks a lot for any information in advance, feel free to PM if would like. :)
Joey
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In the above post for some odd reason it didn't bring the picture in with the quote. It's in regards to the picture at the top of page 9. Thanks
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Joey,
Your going to love your 412. Its a little tank, boxed ways, nice foot print, powerful, ect ...
There are several things you might consider doing a little different. 1) PoKey is only OK for MPG, not great, use different Inputs for your MPG. 2) Add Mod bus serial for additional non-realtime inputs (ATC Inputs, Oil Level, Draw Bar,... ). 3) Try to keep you VFD (we had to make the spindle orientation ourselves and it was a pain)
Do you have 3 phase available ? Some of our design changes were based on the fact that we only single phase and power is limited.
Some of those boards you see are hand made to interface PC electronics to the machine hardware.
I will be glad to help you with your build, I would suggest doing it in phases one step at a time and test each stage before moving onto the next.
Start a new build thread to document each step.
We run this machine at least 3 to 4 times a week.
Thanks
JH
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JH,
I can't wait for the 412 to get here. It just shipped out yesterday and making a long trek all they way from California. I live in Pennsylvania some 2500+ miles away. It's supposed to be delivered either Monday or Tuesday of this coming week. So picking it up as you did wasn't an option for me. I tested the Po-keys out a little just mapped one key and pulled it to ground and it triggered as I would expect it to. What would you suggest for MPG? You spoke of mod bus serial for additional inputs do you have an example link of a board that's capable of this? The original VFD will require me generating 3 phase with a phase converter(seems like a waste) and I live in a residential neighborhood in the country and the closest 3 phase is a 1/4 of a mile away and would cost close to 50K to have ran to my house(lol not an option)<-- I called the electric company and asked them and that's how I know:-). I only have 60 amps single phase available in my garage so I too would like to go with single phase as you have done. I planned on doing it in steps as you have done was just trying to get some of the items ordered and here to test out. I will start a new build and document each step and make anything that I build available for people to download so others can benefit from my thread as they have from yours. I was thinking about your orientation method for the spindle. Does that hurt the stepper being spun by the larger motor constantly? I know you disconnected it via relays when not in use but I wonder what wear that would cause the stepper over time? I can only find a rigger that can set it in my garage(not able to drive all the way in due to height constraints) so I plan on putting several sections of gas pipe under it to move it inch by inch to it's final resting place. So I was curious if you could measure the base of yours and give me the rough length and width of the actual cast iron steel base? Thanks a lot
Joey
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Run the MPG to your parallel port inputs, not via pokeys. All other functions of the pokeys work great!
You might be able to run your stock VFD on single phase, it should have 3 phase rectifier to generate the 400 Volt DC Bus, if it doesnt since the phases, it will work. If not, swap it out. The stepper gets hot running at 6000RPMs, I have added some heat sinks to case to keep it cool. Its warm, but it can be touched, so its not exceeding the max case temp. I figure when it fails, I'll just replace it...
The pipes will work for moving it. I have moved mine several feet with just a 3 feet bar. You might want to invest in a toe jack. I got one cheap from northern tool, its great for lifting to help move and level.
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200349250_200349250
Oh, I am using a CNC4PC serial mod bus on my other CNC, works great for non-realtime I/O
Hope this helps,
JH
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JH and whomever it may concern,
The machine finally arrived and I started a thread under the Show "N" Tell Category. Thanks and have a great day
Joey
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JH,
I bought the same drivers as you. The TSTA20C's. I'm having trouble discerning where to hook the step and direction pins from mach 3. The book with the drivers shows it's dealing with pins 14-17. That's 4 pins I only have 2 pins coming from the cnc4pc board(step and dir). Better yet could you tell me what you have hooked to each pin in your CN1 connector on the driver. I know it needs to share a ground as well is there anything else it needs. I have the 220 wired to them and they come on just fine. Just need to figure out the inputs. Thanks for any help in advance.
Joey
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Most industrial quality drives take differential Step/Dir inputs and although you can usually connect them single ended I prefer to make use of the noise immunity that differential signalling allows. To do this I have made up line driver boards in various guises over the years from simple breadboard ones to routed pcb ones to getting a few professionally made pcbs.
With the new controller I just got it already outputs differential Step/Dir so no need to make up a line driver this time for me :-)
Hood
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I guess I never posted the schematic to the circuits that I made to control the servo with Open Collector vs Line Driver Interface. Agreed with Hood, Line Driver is better, but if your using PP like I did, Open Collector will work just fine. Your limited to 200Khz, but you can’t even get close to that with Mach3 and your PP
To convert 5 Volt TTL to Open Collector, you can use your basic NPN transistors or 74LS05 IC. See the attached circuit diagram, this is what I have used on both the BP412 and the DM4800 to Servo Interface. I’ll have to dig into the Servo Book to see my notes on all the connections used, but at least this shows STEP, DIR, EN and eStop back from the Servo Interface.
JH
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Been working alot lately and haven't had much time for the machine. I got some free time recently and tried to get the servo interfaced to the PC. I wired the servo motor and connected the encodered and powered it on. Everything worked fine it shows the position if I manually move the shaft of the motor. The SON(servo enable) was off at this point. I then enabled the servo on that worked fine and it jogs fine if I use the Dn-05 menu on the driver(manual jog). The problem Im having is it doesnt seem to see or acknowledge any input from the PC. I bought the line driver SN75172N. I made up a breadboard test circuit for this. I used your e-stop and enable circuits which both work as expected. So everything is working except it don't move via the computer.
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Disregard that last post. I had everything hooked up correctly I forgot to send 5v to the enable on the breakout board. After I did that everything worked great. Thanks
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What pin did you use on the Teco servo drives to disengage and engage the Z axis brake. It speaks about a break output in the book but doesnt say a specific pin. I look though the CN1 and didn't see a brake output. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
Joey
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The Z Axis brake is hard wired to the eStop and Charge Pump circuit. When the system is in Ready State the brake is disabled and the Servos are enabled. If any of the servos fail at anytime, they will pull the eStop input line, Mach will stop and enter eStop State, thus the brake will be enabled.
These are independent systems working together. The time that the servos need to hold the Z Axis is so fast, the Z will never move during the transition from eStop to Ready.
Hope this helps,
JH
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Thank you very much for your response. I got the brake working good now and all 3 axis move as they should. I ordered the spindle drive and it should be here late next week. My next concern was the air switches for the tool changer. What are there power requirements? 110 ac 220 ac or 24vdc? They appear to be Ac from what I can tell but don't want to burn them out as Im sure they are hard to find. When my machines up and running I'll repay you with a free job for all the generous help.
Joey
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The controls are 90 or 100VAC, I used a step down transformer to drop the voltage down. I'll check when I can.... I need to take some pictures of the inside electronics for you.
Thanks
JH
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The pneumatics are 100 VAC. I used a toriod transformer to step down the voltage to 100 VAC and solid state relays to interface the parallel port 5 VDC to 100 VAC controls.
Below are the some pictures of the electronics used.
Thanks
JH
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hello , you have a realy nice project !
i want to build an atc , and can use a screenset like yours , where can i get it ?
thank you !
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hello , you have a realy nice project !
i want to build an atc , and can use a screenset like yours , where can i get it ?
thank you !
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,13365.msg112543.html#msg112543
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I thought I would steal my own thread and let you know that we now have a 1988 BP412 that we are adding to the collection VMCs. Already started on the teardown and hope to get it up and running fast...should be easy to do it a second time.
Let the fun begin !
JH
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Where do you find such toys? If I tried to bring home one of those my wife would make me sleep in the garage with it (but I would really like something with a tool changer).
Vince
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Been digging into the BP412, I have ALL the electronics pulled and have cleaned out the cabinets for the all the new stuff.
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The front control panel is now removed along with the XY and Z Servo Motors.
Now the "rebuild" part begins (so we are 1/2 wave done right?) Next step it to get the machine leveled and run the power, air lines and ethernet.
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Hi JH
Was the Heidenhain broken...just thinking it would have been easier to keep it and run single phase servos with it..I have a heidenhain far better than Mach 3 it's a very stable industrial controller and all the info on writing the plc programms is free on the Heidenhain downloads sight!! Plus it would have had the backlash comp and pitch error already set for the machine..
Good thing about the Heidenhain as well is you can upgrade to the latest control or anything in between and the plc automatically updates itself with the newer reserved words and commands when the control is powered up.. If it's a TNC355 it will be using 11 micro amp sinusoidal encoders as the 355 has 4 sinusoidal encoder inputs and one square wave for the spindle axis.
John.
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Hi JH
Was the Heidenhain broken...just thinking it would have been easier to keep it and run single phase servos with it..I have a heidenhain far better than Mach 3 it's a very stable industrial controller and all the info on writing the plc programms is free on the Heidenhain downloads sight!! Plus it would have had the backlash comp and pitch error already set for the machine..
Good thing about the Heidenhain as well is you can upgrade to the latest control or anything in between and the plc automatically updates itself with the newer reserved words and commands when the control is powered up.. If it's a TNC355 it will be using 11 micro amp sinusoidal encoders as the 355 has 4 sinusoidal encoder inputs and one square wave for the spindle axis.
John.
I got the machine cheap as it was marked for "parts only not working". The last owner indicated that it would no longer home and the parameters were lost. I am not a big fan on using 25 year old electronics or trouble shooting them. For me, it will be faster for me to gut the old and in this case "unknown" state of the electronics and replace them with AC Brushless digitial controls that I can fix and maintain.
You are right about Mach3, its not perfect but at least I know its limitation and how to work around them. We run Mach3 on the 1987 BP412 5 days a week.
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Well yes with two of these on Mach 3 you can swap programmes be tween each machine.
If its not homing it will be a sticky limit switch probably on the z ...that's my guess anyway :)
There is only 350 or so parameters on the tnc 355 and half of them are not used..you can run a modern drive in speed mode so it uses the encoder as a tacho, then use the old encoders that go directly back to the Heidenhain for position reference and have the drives set for the analogue command +/- 0 -10v from the Heidenhain. If the encoders are coupled directly to the ball screws its much better for accuracy..the tnc 355 with modern drives will work better and be more solid than any Mach 3 set up but I'm an Heidenhain fan..each to their own :)
Look forward to the build hope it works well!
John.
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Yeah, I was I knew more about Heidenhain and Fanuc both. If I wasnt pressed on time I would like learn more about them....maybe in the next life :)
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Yep lol, I like the Heidenhain as they are very methodical about how they put the controls together, they are all backward compatible etc and all the info on PLC progamming and parameter settings are all easy to download off their sight. Plus all their test equipment is easy to use..they have a device that plugs into the encoder ports and led's go red or green depending if it's ok or not..real easy..same with the encoders..they just plug into the test unit and a quick turn of the shaft gives a trace on the screen and everything is checked by the unit. Encoders can be swapped for linear scales with only a few parameter changes..same plugs and wiring for both usually.
The PLC is burned on to eraseable EEPROMS and can be loaded to ram from the EEPROMs for safe keeping on a pc or visa versa a PLC program can be Rs232'd to the control and then sent to the EEPROMS. On the 355 PLC progs can be written or edited at the pendant and and test run by the control to check for errors before saving.
I think the 355 will do upto 9999 tools and will work on twin tool changers and there was a full 5 axis plus spindle version available.
At least you can power up the old Heidenhain on the bench if ever you want to learn more about it..as long as you have the old encoders plugged in it shouldn't alarm out :)
John
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I have a Tnc 355 on my Beaver Partsmaster, full conversational programming at the control, pockets,drilling,contours etc or I can drip feed G code with no limit on file size :)
John.
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The X8 socket and cable is the analogue command to the drives on the 355...connect that to modern drives add a single phase supply for the new drives and couple the encoders to the ball screws away you go! Fairly straight forward that's why I like the Heidenhain's..for doing retrofits they are a breeze :)
John
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We finally have the breaker box mounted to the machine to get power to it. I needed to paint that section first before it was mounted and that lead to more work... Since we didn’t need the rear control panel/box it was removed. Then the cable tray needed modifications, and a new sheet metal panel was fabricated to block off where the rear control panel originally was located.
Pics of the before and after.
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This is a gorgeous machine. I'm looking at picking up one myself from a local tech school. Have you been happy with it so far? I'm hoping to use the stock electronics as long as i can before i have to retrofit. If i do, i will be happily following your setup and copying it since its so dang nice!! What paint did you go with? It turned out wonderful.
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FAST Forward.... the second BP412 is fully functional. New AC Servos, New glass windows and seals, paint and logos too. The control panel is not complete so we are running it from the LCD screen and Keyboard as of now.
Below is the latest picture of it while cutting parts. Also is a picture of the first BP412 we did, still running too.
Enjoy
JH
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Very Nice! :)
Brett
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Love the shop! Drooling! haha
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Also, what paint did you decide to go with something coolant/oil resistant? Is that metal your painting on or plastic?
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Also, what paint did you decide to go with something coolant/oil resistant? Is that metal your painting on or plastic?
We just use an oil based paint from ACE HARDWARE. Surface preparation is key with any paint. Just roll it on and it fans out nice. Holds up well to the coolant on the outside.
I had an old wise man tell me once "if your paint your machines a light color, you will clean them more and notice issues before they become problems"
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Hey JH, you sure do a nice job of these retro fits, good work finding work to keep these babies running.
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Hi JH
I just bought a fadal and am going to convert it. I read through your build and saw you are using 750W AC servos. Ever wised you had gone with bigger ones. Great job on the two builds.
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Hi JH
I just bought a fadal and am going to convert it. I read through your build and saw you are using 750W AC servos. Ever wised you had gone with bigger ones. Great job on the two builds.
The 750W with a 2 to 1 gear ratio on the pulleys is more power than you will need. I have snapped solid 1/2 carbide end mills off with them
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I've been following this thread for a few years in the hopes that I would find an Interact 412 near me (central Indiana). One popped up on eBay last week (finally) and I got it for a very, very reasonable cost. $600! It was a running machine until recently. The owner just got tired of replacing encoders and decided to part with it. It is in very good condition, just dirty. The only thing that appears amiss is the right saddle needs some turcite replaced but can get by with it as-is. Needs a good pressure washing and repainting of the sheet metal components. I trailered it home Friday and now I have to figure out how to get the dang thing off the trailer. Gonna have to rent a big fork truck.
The plan is to gut the Heidenhain control, keep the Fanuc AC spindle drive, install 1kw AC servos, and integrate everything else with SSRs. I don't have three phase power so I am going to acquire a 10hp Phase Perfect. Right now my other Bridgeport running on Mach with a VFD runs perfectly on single phase, so this isn't my first rodeo but have other machines running on a rotary phase converter and I would really like to get rid of that dinosaur.
The door is kludged together at the top with a ball bearing drawer slide. Am investigating what was there originally.
Machine, right after loading it:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/V582N8ihyvDR2Da2jPqpd5wF091t-2t_Y7yYrLX580rExrqTci5eC-RYnpkZvENgO3F22n5X2GeLKw=w1030-h772-no
Servos/drives I plan on using:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-AC-servo-motor-drive-Kit-1ph-220V-80mm-4NM-1kW-2500RPM-4-4A-3M-Cable-/121691953583?hash=item1c5567d9af:g:D04AAOSwLVZVklS6
Thanks,
Bob