Machsupport Forum
Third party software and hardware support forums. => dspMC/IP Motion Controller => Topic started by: zeeschuim on September 22, 2009, 03:55:29 PM
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I own a big wood router, it is a Sanom build in 1994.
the drives and motors are Allen Bradley, drives: AC230 volt BRU 200 analog and brushless DC 230 volt servomotors f series Allen Bradley 3.3hp max 20 Amp
Is there someone who can tell me if the dspMC/ip is the right choice for me?
I have the manual for the drives and motor, they run only one direction with simple wirering,
regards,
Cees
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I am in the process of taking delivery of one picked up second hand, I have been trying to find anyone that has used them with third party motors.
As you may know, they are programmed with a PC through the serial port, they only appear to have ±10vdc analogue control.
I hope to drive a Fanuc servo with it for as spindle motor, I don't see any commutation inputs, Hall or resolver? Do you know if your has commutation feed back.
BTW, These are Reliance Electric units, Rockwell bought them out a while back.
Nosmo.
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zeeschuim
The DSPMC should be fine, I have never used on but have heard a lot of good things about it. Your drives should be capable of moving in both directions, sounds like you have the CW or CWW inhibit in use, been a while since I messed with them.
As yours will already be set up for your motors then there will be no issues regards the personality module.
NosmoKing
If your drives are BRU 200 then I believe it will not be easy to use with motors other than they are meant to be used with. Reason I say that is they have a personality module that plugs into them and this needs to be set up with the motor parameters. It is not like the later drives that can be programmed from the serial port, it needs to be done external to the drive, how exactly I am not sure. I was quoted £50 to programme one a few years ago, I was to send off the module, they would programme and send it back and I would then just plug it back into the drive. Whether they will programme the module with a non standard motors parameters I dont know but probably best asking Osia rather than Rockwell as I would imagine there would be more chance of them doing it.
You can connect to the drive via serial and using Hyperterminal but it is just for PID and the like, not setting motor parameters.
Hood
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Oh forgot, if I remember correctly commutation is by means of absolute encoder, the motors I had have a ABS signal as well as the normal A B I on the encoder.
Hood
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I own a big wood router, it is a Sanom build in 1994.
the drives and motors are Allen Bradley, drives: AC230 volt BRU 200 analog and brushless DC 230 volt servomotors f series Allen Bradley 3.3hp max 20 Amp
Is there someone who can tell me if the dspMC/ip is the right choice for me?
I have the manual for the drives and motor, they run only one direction with simple wirering,
regards,
Cees
As long as they are +-10v analog input and you have encoders on the motors they will work fine.
Mike
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Oh forgot, if I remember correctly commutation is by means of absolute encoder, the motors I had have a ABS signal as well as the normal A B I on the encoder.
Hood
That is what looks strange, ABS is just one input, whereas absolute is usually multi-digitial, the rest is ABI differential.
From what I read in the manual, the personality module can be custom programmed by PC and a modem program, they are normally just pre-set for Reliance motors?
Nosmo.
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Thanks,
I saw they need a 24volt input for cw and cww rotatation, am I right?
Cees
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NosmoKing
The ABS signal if I remember correctly is like a series of steps in voltage equal to the pole pairs in the motor, been a few years but its definitely the way I remember seeing it on the scope.
As for programming, I dont know how its done, I was under the impression they placed it in something similar to an eeprom burner and that special software was needed. That could have just been bull however as they may have just been wanting some money from me. It seems to be a closely guarded secret as I searched long and hard for info but couldn't find any.
What you may be seeing in the manual is that you can alter parts of the personality module via hyperterminal, things such as PID, Torque or Velocity mode etc but as far as I am aware the actual motor parameters can not be changed that way.
zeeschuim
The 24v is internally supplied and you open the terminals to stop rotation in the direction you want to stop it. In the above drawing it shows RAC and FAC, that is the rotation inhibits, FAC stands for Forward Amplifier Clamping and RAC is Reverse. If you jumper FAC+ to FAC- you can rotate Forward direction, if you connect RAC+ to RAC- you can get Reverse, if you have them both connected then you can get both directions. The direction is controlled from your + - 10v analogue inputs from your controller (DSPMC)
Hood
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The ABS signal if I remember correctly is like a series of steps in voltage equal to the pole pairs in the motor, been a few years but its definitely the way I remember seeing it on the scope.
As for programming, I dont know how its done, I was under the impression they placed it in something similar to an eeprom burner and that special software was needed.
I guess I will find out when I get it and play with it, I see there is a jumper that selects either RAM or EPROM for the PM module, so I guess if a RAM chip is fitted it is fully programmable, with the burn command?
Nosmo.
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so this dspMC?ip wil give 0 to 10 volt plus and 0 to 10 volt minus?
I tryed with a penlite battery both ways, but the drives don't reverse!???
thanks,
Cees
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I am just going by the manual, not actually used one yet, but it looks like the FAC & RAC can inhibit each direction.
They can optionally be used for +/- limits sw.
Nosmo.
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so this dspMC?ip wil give 0 to 10 volt plus and 0 to 10 volt minus?
I tryed with a penlite battery both ways, but the drives don't reverse!???
thanks,
Cees
Look at post 7, it explains about the clamping. I suspect you have one of either RAC or FAC closed and the other open, that will only allow rotation in one direction.
I guess I will find out when I get it and play with it, I see there is a jumper that selects either RAM or EPROM for the PM module, so I guess if a RAM chip is fitted it is fully programmable, with the burn command?
Nosmo.
All I can remember you being able to adjust and store were the normal tuning parameters, I certainly saw no way to be able to change the motor setup.
Hood
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Yes I did see that, tried every combination,
they only rotate one way
regards,
Cees
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Dont know what else it could be then :(
Hood
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This is maybe where the RS232 hookup would be usefull, in this case the Status report appears to cover quite a bit, including the FAC/RAC condition.
Nosmo.
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Nosmo
any news on the BRU drives?
Hood
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I am hoping to hook up a RS232 link this week end.
I was hoping that it would simply take the standard differential encoder feedback, but I suspect it needs that ABS signal to sync the commutation.
I would imagine it is just a single pulse, as after that the controller can use the encoder for F.B.
Unfortunately I do not have a motor to test.
I was hoping to use the amp as a spindle amplifier.
I will post the RS232 results when I get them.
Nosmo.
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This is what I found so far, I have to leave it for a while, but there should be enough if anyone wants to pursue it further.
The RS232 connection is:
P6 ---9pin Dsub
1 -----2
3------5
5------3
The original Tandy100 was set up just as a dumb terminal mode.
I tried some of my Modem programs and found that Telix had the VT52 emulation.
I did not try all the others, I think if I spent time I may get one of the others to work.
I did get some spurious characters on the screen but it did not seem to affect anything, it takes a bit of practice to change the variables.
Only change jumper P10 when the power is off.
The protocol has to be set to 9600 N 8 1.
I tried ANSI.SYS in the Config.sys file, but it did not make a difference.
I had nothing connected so when I switched on the amp, the Status screen stated that the thermal switch was open.
After jumpering it out, the two red status LED's went out.
The status screen only registers on power up.
You will probably need a Win98 or earlier PC and run at the DOS prompt.
I did not even try Hyperterminal, I have found it pretty useless anyway as a Modem program.
Nosmo.
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Hyperterminal works fine with these drives, I could easily see and alter all parameters that the manuals shows.
What I couldn't do is write to the personality module to reconfigure the motor parameters, I hope you find a way to do that as I have 4 drives here that I may use in the future if I can get the motors updated.
Hood
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The PM I have in the one I got is an SRAM IC, so the on screen variables can be changed with the S save.
Did you change the P10 jumper to enable write?
The manual mentions a Host mode and suggests obtaining the host mode communication protocol, It is not clear what all features are available in this mode, one is the save and load of the entire PM in Intel HEX.
I may try contacting Reliance if need be to get a copy.
Nosmo.
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Yes I could change and save the parameters that are in the manual, volts per rev , torque mode, PID etc but no where did I see any way to change the actual motor parameters or commutation parameters.
Really hope you can find a way to do that.
Hood
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Just spent a while on the phone with Rockwell Tech support, they looked all over and cannot find any old Reliance reference to 'Host Mode Protocol' for the BRU-200.
Even got hold of an old Reliance staff member and still no luck.
Ended with a suggestion I buy modern drives!.
Nosmo.
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Ended with a suggestion I buy modern drives!.
Ha ! lol......That's what they usually tell me FIRST !
Russ :D
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See if you can contact Osai in the UK, that is the make of my drives (used to be part or Reliance I think) and the guy was quite helpful, he may give you the info you need.
Hood
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NosmoKing
Did you get anywhere with the BRU drive?
Hood
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No, I abandoned the BRU200 all together.
Nosmo
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I recently bought a BRU 500 and a S6300 motor which I am planning on putting on the spindle of my manual lathe and I decided to get a Willem programmer so that I could back up the personality module in case of corruption. I can extract the file no probs and can reprogramme the module with the file as well but was hoping I would be able to possibly see some info in it to change the parameters but alas not, its just gobbledegook :(
I am sure there must be a way to know what each line of the hex file refers to but afraid I cant see anything, maybe there is a manual somewhere that explains it but likely it will be long lost :(
Hood
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Thanks,
I saw they need a 24volt input for cw and cww rotatation, am I right?
Cees
Hi, Cees, I saw you have part of the bru-200 manual.
can you be so kind to upload the complete manual or (if not) send it to my mail ? rodmore2 'at' hotmail 'dot' com
I have two of these drives but can't make it work. The mode I like is step/dir, but your piece of atachment shows only analog control (with a pot), just like made in this youtube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkgxmzEtVJ0
Did you finally make your drive work ?
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These drives are analogue (-10v to +10v) only so no step/dir capability.
Hood
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Thanks,
I saw they need a 24volt input for cw and cww rotatation, am I right?
Cees
please I need documentation of BRU-200, you can give me a download link? thank you
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If you send me a PM with your email address I will send the manual to you.
Hood
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Hood, good afternoon.
I need the manual of the BRU-500.
I need to change a motor encoder Electrocraft 3000 to 2500 pulses.
Would change the customization of the drive?
Grateful.
Translated by google
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I do not think you will be able to do that.
The personality modules on these drives contain the information about the motor/encoder etc and you can not change that from HyperTerminal, with the exception of a few basic parameters.
You could possibly grab the .bin off of the module and alter it, if you know what you are doing. I don't and although I tried I was unsuccessful as I was just taking wild guesses and altering parts that looked like they may pertain to what I was wanting to change.
Hood
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Ok.
Grateful.
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I just noticed the manual did not send the last day, I have attempted again, hopefully you will receive it this time.
Hood
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Hood,
I have not received yet. Try sending in: cnc 'at' cnchelp 'dot' com 'dot' br if possible.
Grateful.
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Just sent again, let me know if you get it. If you dont I will see if I can upload it somewhere.
Hood