Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: rocketbob on September 12, 2009, 03:59:37 PM
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Hi Guys, new to Mach3. I have an Emcoturn 320 with a Fanuc OT that I am looking to replace. What's the best route to go for Mach3? From my research it seems I should retain the Fanuc servo and spindle drives (machine uses Fanuc red cap AC servos) but I'm not sure how to go about getting step/dir from a breakout board wired up to the drives. Or would I be better off removing the servos and replacing them with steppers/geckos?
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Me also. In may case I have a 345.
Basically the drives that I have need an analog input for movement. In your case probably also. And for what I was told and what I have research there are quite a few alternatives:
1) Replace the drives and keep the motors, and use compatible drives with mach and the motors
2) Use galil or dspmc hardware to create the analog signal from the step and direction and keep drives and motors
3) Replace drives and motors
Note that I do not have 100% sure that those are correct options!
Option 3 is more straight forward if you do not care so much in having a huge acceleration or speed. Option 2 will keep original and expensive hardware and make you buy also expensive hardware. option 1 will make you buy more or less expensive hardware.
I do not know what is the best, I did not made a decision for myself.
Let me know what you will do!
Filipe
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There are a couple of others that you could use in Option 2 but I think the DSPMC would be the way I would go.
Hood
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Actually right now I am leaning on a Granite Devices VSD-XE, two new DC servos from them (so I don't have to muck with wiring or PID tuning), but am not sure what to do about the Fanuc AC servo spindle motor; perhaps retain the existing Fanuc drive and also control the 0-10V input via a PIC microcontroller. As far as the turret, chuck and tailstock go, I'm thinking that they wouldn't be very complicated to control with a PIC. With new servos this route would be less expensive than the DSPMC.
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Less expensive? Are you sure?
Drives will be arround 600€ + 600€ for the motors and you will have a less performant system, I think.
Keep us posted, since I have great interest.
Thank you.
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Those servos and drives you have are very high quality and very expensive to buy new!! Keep them at all costs if you can...also the Fanuc OT is a great control..why replace it..??
It will wipe the floor with Mach at the moment as it should have CSS and tool nose radius compensation as standard..
If you are short of memory space there are various sellers on US Ebay selling memory upgrades..or try www.memex.ca
John
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Yes that is also a good point.
I will only replace the existent hardware IF I cannot put to work the current hardware or if it is to expensive putting it working. Original parts are always (not always 96%) the best.
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They know their stuff when it comes to making a good cnc control over at Fanuc ;)
John.
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The Emcocturn 320 I bought was unpowered, and priced accordingly. I got a good deal on it. Since it had sat for so long unpowered, the batteries went dead and all of the default parameters were lost. The machine needs to be "recommissioned" (the term Emco uses to input all of the Fanuc OTB's default parameters.) When I powered it up I got a servo fault on the X and Z axis 417 and 427.
Emco has sent me a pdf on how to recommission the machine, but I have yet to receive the parameter file I have to upload to it. They want $700 for a one year support contract if I needed any additional help but they did promise to send me the file. Still waiting so we shall see. Retrofit/Mach3 is plan B if this all falls through.
If I could find another identical machine I could download all of the parameters from, that would be ideal.
Tool nose radius compensation is not an issue for me, since most cam packages will do that for you.
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The Emcocturn 320 I bought was unpowered, and priced accordingly. I got a good deal on it. Since it had sat for so long unpowered, the batteries went dead and all of the default parameters were lost. The machine needs to be "recommissioned" (the term Emco uses to input all of the Fanuc OTB's default parameters.) When I powered it up I got a servo fault on the X and Z axis 417 and 427.
I have also acquire my machine in this condition. In my case I bought this lathe and a vertical machining center. Both machines are from setember 1999 10 years old (controls are not so old 21 series), and were without power for 3 years. The battery's are without power and I am waiting for 2 new battery's (60€ each). The errors that I saw where lost of position due to the battery fault, but I do not think that machine lost parameters. If parameters were lost I will also be lost and a retrofit will be the answer. Probably.
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Well with regards to the parameters I can get a set for you or you can go on www.cnczone.com and get a set for Fanuc OTB.
You have to load the first few by hand to get the rs232 working and a few other things too.
The servo alarm is because you have no parameters as yet.
I have a friend who can help you out on set up etc I'll get in touch with him for you.
In reply to Melee, no need to go to steppers and redo all the i/o on the machine to get it working with Mach!
You can drip feed programmes of any length to the control so no need for a big memory storage.
Why go to steppers and run open loop when you have a perfectly good digital closed loop set up that will be way more accurate!
Just turn the rapids down to 25% if your worried about crashing ;)
On the tool nose radius issue, it's far easier to change it on the control. Re loading your G code file every time you want to accommodate tool tip wear can be a real pain!!
John
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John, if you could provide me with the MSD file that would be superb. I have the instructions on how to set the default baud rate and other steps to set the paramters. I looked on cnczone for the OTB parameters and couldn't find it.
Regards,
Bob
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Bob,
I've sent you a PM.
John.
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ftomazz there will be someone on cnczone who has those parameters for the 21 control. Best to put a help request out on the Fanuc section on cnczone.
If your machine has lost position it will be as you say because the battery backed encoders you have need the batteries replacing.
The idea is that when you power down the machine the encoders use the battery to store their position so no need to home the machine on start up.
To re set them once the batteries have been replaced, simply move each axis to a reference position of your choice and zero the machine. You could use an edge finder in the spindle to touch off on a fixture on the bed if that's easier for you.
You will have a really nice control once it's back on it's feet ;)
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I have the manuals for the 21, but the parameter manual will just describe the nature of the entry for whatever machine you are working on.
You need the original OEM values.
The other problem is the 9000 option parameters, these are purchased by the MTB at build time.
These turn on things like thread milling or tapping etc.
Nosmo.
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Well, I do have a "manual" in the machine. It looks quite good organized, and it is divided by:
Messages
Cross Reference
Ladder logic
CNC parameters
Machine parameters
Part Programs
I believe that I have all in case of a severe blackout. My knowledge is very limited in Fanuc, so I will have a lot to learn.
Currently machine is all being painted (it is fully enclosed, showing it "open")
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The other problem is the 9000 option parameters, these are purchased by the MTB at build time.
These turn on things like thread milling or tapping etc.
Nosmo.
Could this be the lines for example:
N09900 P 3
N09901 P 0
N09920 P 00101011
....
....
they are more os less 50 lines of N09*********
Thanks
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Looks great! These are very solid machines.. :)
The 9000 parameters are not really machine specific..they do things like add soft keys on the screen and enable machining features such as helical interpolation which can be used for thread milling..of course some of the 9000 are specific to mills and some to lathes and you must have the hardwear to support some of them ie. rigid tap needs an encoder based spindle.
On later controls such as the 16 and 21i motor tuning can be done by looking up the servo motor in the Fanuc manual and inputting the parameters for that motor!
It's best to find a parameter set from the same size/type or very similar machine if you can and tweak them using the manual as reference.
John.
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Could this be the lines for example:
N09900 P 3
N09901 P 0
N09920 P 00101011
....
....
they are more os less 50 lines of N09*********
Thanks
Yes, if you have those you are half way there, for eg the 9921 sets the amount of memory available!
Fanuc's method was to put all the options in the control and they are turned on when you pay for them.
Some, however do need hardware, either external or in the form of an additional card.
Nosmo.
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Hey gents, I finally got the MSD file and some better instructions from Emco-Maier but haven't had time yet to try to recommission it. Thanks for the kind offers of help, hopefully I get it going in the next few days.
Regards,
Bob
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I am with the other guys Re: keeping the Fanuc motors and drives.
They built them to last, the motors will last for ever.
I have just put Mach 3 on a Hurco mill with Fanuc 0 motors and drives and am using the dspmc unit.
I am still having a few teething problems trying to integrate between the two, and the PID tuning is crazy but I will get it.
Ray.
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Last weekend I have successfully put the machine to jog with all the origin hardware (fanuc). Machine moving at 40m/min is something to see.
I have a lot to learn with this controller, but I will eventually get into it.
Filipe
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Sounds good Filipe :)
Keep us posted!!
John
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It's good to look at other controls and see how they compare to Mach! It all helps to improve Mach
John.
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Until now, it appears quite difficult, since I could one jog the machine and zero it.
I am unable to do all the basic stuff (to much MACH). I am trying to input simple moves on MDI mode so that the machine can move, and I could not.
I have made a thread on CNC zone (in this forum I belive it is not the right place), asking for help, lets see.
2 Pictures attached. One, the current machine, the other as I received it.
Thanks