Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: derekbpcnc on September 12, 2009, 05:03:27 AM
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Hi All,
Here is a photo of the 8 stn tool turret that will be fitted to my Colchester / Mach3 combo.
Turrethttp://img43.imageshack.us/img43/338/img6584s.jpg (http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/338/img6584s.jpg)
Lathe http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/9465/img6551.jpg
The intention is to control the turret function by a small PLC and command the PLC using descrete IO from a Pokeys IO expansion board.
ie 3 outputs from Pokeys to select the tool and an I/p to say tool in position + 1 or 2 fault signals.
The turret has a solenoid shot pin for " rough" positioning.
Clamp lock for holding the turret in accurate position.
Motor rotate CW
Motor rotate CCW
Motor brake
Motor over temp sensor
Solenoide position sensor
Clamp lock position sensor
Turret position sensor (4 binary ops)
So there is a fair bit going on.
More photos of the control build as and when
ATB
Derek
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Sounds like it works in exactly the same manner as the one I did the ladder for, all works with timings in the PLC ladder.
Do you have a PLC already or are you going to be getting one?
I just got a turret off a Bullard lathe that I am adapting to fit in place of the front post on my Computurn. At the moment its a hydraulic motor that rotates it via a very nice setup of hard rubber worm and it indexes nicely but I am thinking of changing that out to a servo.
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Sounds like it works in exactly the same manner as the one I did the ladder for, all works with timings in the PLC ladder.
Do you have a PLC already or are you going to be getting one?
I just got a turret off a Bullard lathe that I am adapting to fit in place of the front post on my Computurn. At the moment its a hydraulic motor that rotates it via a very nice setup of hard rubber worm and it indexes nicely but I am thinking of changing that out to a servo.
Hi Hood,
I will use a small Mitsubushi FX plc - used quie a few of these and might be able to pull one out of some old kit.
I have not done any work with modbus and quite like the idea of being able to test the "coms" between mach and turret by looking at the PLC IP LEDs.
Also, if necessary it will make it easier to transfer to another lathe if I ever had the need to.
Duplo sent me the tech manual with the wiring diagram and timing chart -The motor is a little 3ph jobbie and will need to be conected to a small VFD as I only have 1ph in "my shop".
I'd like to see your 2 turrets in operation when you have it all fitted.
ATB
Derek
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If these PLCs support ModBUS then no need to use the PoKeys for it, the PLC will handle it all and obviously has the advantages that it will take 24V which I presume the turret will be for its I/O. Also a lot less wiring involved as you will be going via the serial from the PLC rather than the outputs to the pokeys through USB to Mach.
Hood
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Hi,
I've added a number toochanger modules into the ModIO for various turrets. The latest was for this Hercus turret.
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,11809.msg81230.html#msg81230
The ModIO is controlled vis Modbus ans uses the M6Start macro.
Cheers,
Peter
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Hi Hood /Peter,
The small Mitsubishi FX PLCs don't support Modbus (RS232/485 only)
So my choice is use the FX with Pokeys - I need a pokeys for addition switches anyway and talk to the turret PLC by 4/5 descrete Pokeys I/O lines.
Or - use a Modbus capable PLC for a neater installation with much of the M6 macro work already available.
What manufacture of PLC would you recommend? Is the programming software cheap or free :D
I am comming round to the idea of ModBUS.
ATB
Derek.
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I use the Koyo from Automation direct, model D0-06DR
You can get them in the UK from Lamonde Automation but they charge the same in £ as they are in $ from Automation Direct. However you would need someone in the USA to buy it and send it over to you as Automation Direct will just tell you to buy from their UK agent.
Software is free up to 100 words.
Hood
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Well,
...almost 2yrs and at last major progress to report:-
Turret conected to a separate PLC controller.
Pokeys configured and connected to PC/PLC controller via CNC4PC opto isolator boards.
Chunky base plate machined to mount the turret onto the Colchester to slide.
Mach set up, tool change macro written, home limits setup.
A few bits of VDI tooling sourced from 3bay
Next step - remove the dixon tool post, bolt on the turret and enjoy ;D
Photos to follow.
ATB
Derek
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Ah so it was you that bought that tooling I was watching the last day ;D
I dont have a VDI turret but would like to get one someday, dont suppose you know where there are any going cheap ? ;D
Look forward to the pics.
Hood
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Hi Hood,
Here are a few pics.
After a false start, (the coolant was comming out of the wrong position ::) its all working supa dupa ;D
The turret is mounted on a steel adaptor plate fixed onto where the Dixon tool post was fixed.
Pokeys and CNC4PC boards interface to the PLC control. (made by a buddy of mine).
Dave (brother) written the tool change macro and added a few extra buttons to the lathe screens.
It only took 2 years :-[ ;D
ATB
Derek (& Dave)
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Pic 2
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Pic3
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Pic4
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Looks good, what size VDI is it, I have just been offered a VDI tool plate and I am thinking I may just make a turret from scratch rather than fitting it to one of the two I have on the lathe.
Hood
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Dereks brother here ( who did most of the work really ;-) ! )
It's a VDI30 turret and just about fits considering the diameter of the tool plate and the clearance of the tools over the front bed way when pointing down.
If we need to part off to centre any thing larger than 45mm dia, we'll have to be very carefull about not bashing in to the bed with the parting tool.
Though this shouldn't be an issue as we've soon have a larger lathe for the bigger jobs .
Dave.
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VERY nice setup by you two- thanks for sharing the pics-
Dave
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Dereks brother here ( who did most of the work really ;-) ! )
It's a VDI30 turret and just about fits considering the diameter of the tool plate and the clearance of the tools over the front bed way when pointing down.
If we need to part off to centre any thing larger than 45mm dia, we'll have to be very carefull about not bashing in to the bed with the parting tool.
Though this shouldn't be an issue as we've soon have a larger lathe for the bigger jobs .
Dave.
Thanks for the info, the one I am getting, or may be getting is only a VDI20 which is smaller than I would have liked but it is 16 position which is nice.
I know the feeling of having to be careful, having a rear and front turret can be a bit of heart stopper at atimes when running code for the first time ;D
The new lathe wouldnt happen to be a blue XYZ would it?
Hood
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[Thanks for the info, the one I am getting, or may be getting is only a VDI20 which is smaller than I would have liked but it is 16 position which is nice.
I know the feeling of having to be careful, having a rear and front turret can be a bit of heart stopper at atimes when running code for the first time ;D
The new lathe wouldnt happen to be a blue XYZ would it?
Hood
Not a XYZ . A Leadwell. We should have it at the of end Dec. :)
Dave.
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ah Ok well not the one I thought.Is Mach going on it or are the orig controls ok?
Hood
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ah Ok well not the one I thought.Is Mach going on it or are the orig controls ok?
Hood
Not Mach this time, but Fanuc. ( I hope I don't get an instant ban for using the F word :) )
Dave.
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Not at all, dont think anyone would think bad of you for mentioning that :) If the original controls are working and are good enough to do all you want then you would be daft swapping them out.
Hood
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Still playing with the tool changer and setting it up. We're getting there !
The turret has 8 positions and I have about 16 tools mounted in their holders to use depending on the job.
When running the program I call tool number and offset eg T0215 All ok.
But for setting up and manual changes, I find typing in T0306 etc in to the MDI a bit slow and can easily lead to typing related errors !
So, I have an array of 8 buttons on screen that select tool change position and these work fine. Click and the turret moves to home position and turns to the appropriate slot 1 to 8
(Screen grab attached)
For the tool offsets, I've also got a parallel set of user DRO's 1101 to 1108 (shown above the tool position buttons) which I can type in the offset number of the tool in the particular slot.
But I can't get the macro to update the Current Tool number DRO with that shown in my 'Tool Offset' user DRO.
The code in the No1 turret position button is -
Code "G91 G28 X0 Z0"
Code "T0100"
SetCurrentTool(GetUserDRO(1101))
Code "G90"
Which I was hoping the above would move the turret to slot 1 and then uptate the current tool to the number in the UserDro 1101
and set the correct tool offset for that tool.
I'd appreciate any help / suggestions where I'm going wrong or better ways to approach this .
Thanks , Dave.
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What you need to do is call the offset number as well as the tool number, so just calling Code "T0100" will move turret to slot 1 but will load offset zero, ie no offset. You need to call T0150 if you want offset 50.
Hood
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Thanks for the reply Hood -
For the Turret position1 button, I want the offset number to come in from the UserDRO 1101 ( I've typed a number 2 in that DRO to test) and not 'hard coded' in the macro.
All attempts so far not worked :(
Thanks
Dave.
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Try something like this
Offset = GetOemDRO(1101)
Code "T02" & Offset
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Unfortunately that sets to current tool to 0. Looks like the & Offset doesn't get appended on to the T01
Humm.. might have to sleep on this one.
Dave
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Sorry I had OEM(802) in my first posting but later edited, Try
Offset = GetUserDRO(1101)
Code "T01" & Offset
Should work fine assuming your M6start macro is working as it should
Hood
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BTW reason I had OEM(802) was because I was testing it and instead of adding a DRO to the screen I just used the Z DRO ;)
Hood
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With the button as this -
Code "G91 G28 X0 Z0"
Offset = GetOemDRO(1101)
Code"T01" & Offset
Code "G90"
The Current Tool Dro is set to 0
This seems to nearly work
Code "G91 G28 X0 Z0"
Code"T0100"
Offset = GetOemDRO(1101)
SetCurrentTool(Offset)
Code "G90"
I can see the value of OemDro(1101) flash up in the Current Tool Dro then revert back to 1. Strange ?
Thanks a lot for your help
Dave.
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Try this
Offset = GetOemDRO(1101)
Code "G91 G28 X0 Z0"
While IsMoving()
Wend
Code"T01" & Offset
Code "G90"
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The value in UserDRo(1101) now doesn't flash up - The Current Tool DRO is set to 1
If I take out the line Code"T0100" as a test, the value in UserDRo(1101) appears in the Current Tool DRO
It looks like some thing in the M6 macro is jumping over the
SetCurrentTool(Offset) command in the button.
Looking in to that and will post any findings in the morning.... Cheers,
Dave.
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The tool DRO will show 01 as that is the tool number, to see the full tool number and offset you will need to add a DRO on the screen or change that DRO to OEM 246. And if you have T%04.0f in the format string it will show the T as well as the full tool number and offset, see screenshot.
Hood
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You dont want the SetCurrentTool(Offset) in the buitton, that should be handled by your m6start macro and all you are doing from the button is basically calling a toolchange which then gets passed to the m6start and then back.
Hood
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Here is the standard screenset modified for the tool number/offset DRO
Place it in your Mach3 folder then use the View and Load Screens to open it.
Hood
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Thanks Hood. I'll look through that lset today and see if I can get it to work here.
Cheers,
Dave.
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No probs Dave. Could I ask a favour, can you measure the dia of the wedge piece that locks the VDI shank in place? I got a VDI tool plate from a friend but some of them are missing and I am wondering if its just a standard size on all VDI or whether these wedges as different Dia for different VDI sizes.
Not sure if that is the correct terminology for the part so I have attached a pic of it.
Hood
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Hi Hood,
Here is a photo of our VDI wedgie.
It is 30.0mm OD.
ATB
Derek
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Thanks Derek, much appreciated. They are much bigger than the ones on the plate I have so obviously not a standard between sizes, think mine are only 18mm Dia
Tool plate is not really going to work for me I dont think as its only a VDI20 which is a bit small for my lathe. Looks like I will have to make up my own, not sure if VDI or some other method of repeatable holders is the way to go.
Hood
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Success at last !
The problem was the number of digits of the tool offset number when 'converted' to a string.
The USerDRO dropped the leading zero for tool offsets below 10 (even with the correct format string set)
The tool command sent to M6Start was something like T014 which didn't work.
The macro now checks if the offset is a single digit and adds the extra leading zero if the offset is 0 - 9.
The Tool 1 select buton macro looks like this -
Sub Main
Code "G91 G28 X0 Z0"
Dim Offset As Single
Offset=GetOemDRO(1101)
If Offset<10 Then
Code"T010" & Offset
End If
If Offset>9 Then
Code"T01" & Offset
End If
Code "G90"
End Sub
I just enter the tool offset in to the Userdro on the initial set up and when ever I need to switch the tool manually I click the relevent button - the tool is selected and the tools offset loads as well.
Thanks for all your help Hood.
All good fun. Dave
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You could also have altered the format string of your user DROs to have the leading zero, %02.f would do that.
Good you have it working as you want :)
Hood
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Hello.
Anyone knows a European source for those clamping wedges that this post have pictures?
I need to do my own DVI disc but I should buy the wedges as they are standard.
Thank you
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Hello.
Anyone knows a European source for those clamping wedges that this post have pictures?
I need to do my own DVI disc but I should buy the wedges as they are standard.
Thank you
Hi,
I think www.westontooling.co.uk can supply them.
Dave.
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Thank you, just emailed them. Lets see what will result.