Machsupport Forum
General CNC Chat => Show"N"Tell ( Your Machines) => Topic started by: roodesign on August 29, 2006, 05:01:25 PM
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Hi Folks I just got this lathe on ebay for $500 and I am looking into retrofitting it. I am looking for advice on how best to accomplish this. I am going to be using it as a real production machine, not just hobby...that being said my budjet is not unlimited!
The lathe is a hardinge hnc, it was made in 1980 and it seems to be in good working order. the pictures should tell the rest I think.
thanks all
Roo Trimble
Roodesign
roodesign@earthlink.net
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O boy i ran a jath just like that one time :) GE 550 and all!! JUNK!!!!!! Sweet lathe!!
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I used to run those too, but with Allen Bradley controls. Looks like a 5C machine?
Can't see your servo motors. but I do recall those little tacho's which can be seen in the last pic. We seemed to be forever fixing em.
I am doing a similar machine, see the HXL-S thread. Be glad to help if I can.
Wayne...
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Thought I would update with my progress....
I have decided to go with a Galil 2130 controller and new analog drives...
I will be adding encoders on the end of the ball screws ...where all that resolver stuff is...see pic..
I plan to use the original spindle motor, and it's two speed belt/clutch transmission. I will use a vfd in addition to this instead of the cone pully setup that is on it...I will remove or lock that...I get to trash that whole huge "refrigerator"!!!
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Re your spindle drive. Does your machine have the split cone pullys and the small motor and leadscrew to infinately change ratio?
My 1st retrofit had this arrangement, and I kept it while using a VFD. I rearranged it so that it effectively became a LOW/HIGH gearbox moving from one limit dwitch to the other.
Worked quite well. I'd take pic, but the machine is in pieces again while I modify the pan to give me a deeper well like my HXL-S
Wayne...
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Re your spindle drive. Does your machine have the split cone pullys and the small motor and leadscrew to infinately change ratio? My 1st retrofit had this arrangement, and I kept it while using a VFD. I rearranged it so that it effectively became a LOW/HIGH gearbox moving from one limit switch to the other. Wayne...
I have an HNC that I am getting ready to retrofit. It never occurred to me to use the varidrive as a transmission. Great idea!
My hnc came out of a university lab and had never been used. It still has the shipping brackets attached.
What did you do with the servo motors on your machine? I need to install encoders and wondered if I should just dispense with the motors and start fresh.
Doug Harrison
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I have decided to go with a Galil 2130 controller and new analog drives...
How are you going to controll the Galil? Mach?
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another update...I have removed the ge 550 control, and all interface boards etc from the lathe, I have installed the galil 2130 in the left side cab on the lathe, also the amc drives. I am mounting automation direct 2500 ppr dif encoders in place of the old resolver tach units on the ends of the screws. I have removed all the contactors for the spindle motor and coolant pump...vfds go in the right side cab 1 for spindle motor, 1 for coolant pump. for now I will have the galil control the vfd, and the high and low range clutches and brake, I will lock the vari-drive in one position. another encoder goes on the spindle for when the mach3 plugin will use it for threading/ pid control of the spindle vfd...that's it for now...I sure am having fun!
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Hi there, yet another update!
almost all hardware is done...look for pics shortly....it will be time to start writing macros for all the i/o....
the galil controls all the outputs that I need and all the inputs...
there are 13 outs and 9 inputs...the galil either controls 10 amp ssr's or opto 22 boards
my galil has 8 opto inputs, so I will have to use 1 opto 22 input module...
anyone out there have a macro that would be a good starting place for the hardinge turret?
it needs to read the four wire turret encoder and control the solinoids that lift/turn it and the one that stops it + 1 in postion switch, also I have a feeling that the turret stop device briefly stalls the turn air motor as it stops the turret?
well anyway, look for some pics shortly....
Roo Trimble :)
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Hey guys, I thought I would try again to see if anyone has a turret macro that would be a good starting place for me to make mine for my hardinge hnc...
I am a bit lost in how to start...
please! thanks tons....
by the way, I have the hnc working with the Galil quite well...the i/o...homeing etc...I even made some chips!
Roo Trimble :)
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Sorry can't help with the turret as they are quite different to the HXL turret. Have you had the encoder working? All I can remember is Brown wire is +5v and Black is 0v. Maybe BCD output on those. I lost my service manuals for those machines years ago.
Making chips eh? Video it we want to see!
Good Luck
Wayne....
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Hi Wayne, I would love to see your macro all the same...I know how the turret encoder works and which wires and all that, but I don't know how to write macros
and I was wondering if saw yours maybe it would be a good starting point...
the hnc encoder has 4 wires...and depending which one are on off tells your what position
for example 0001 is turret position X....
the turret has a solenoid that lifts, and turns the turret, and another that stops the turn...
so, the macro lifts and starts turning and looks for the comanded encoder position, 0001 for example, when it sees that, it fires the stop ratchet thingy...(tech term) and stalls the air motor until you then tell it to drop the turret, and stop spinning....the magnet on the encoder is adjustable on it's shaft for timing adjustments...on the old control, there was a switch that would let you index the turret one position, but not drop the turret (so if your timing was off you would not hurt your turret by lowering in the wrong place) finally there is a limit switch that tells you that the turret has dropped properly in place.
Sooooooo, the macro needs to have the definitions for those 8 turret positions and when you command a T(x) it starts the turret index routine...(as far as I know so far)
anyway, would love if you would like to share...no hard feelings if it's private.....thanks, Roo
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Roo
I am in the same boat as you, I have a lathe with a rear turret and a front post and am using a PLC to control them. I have the ladder written for the PLC but the VB in the macro I am struggling with. I know exactly what I want to do but how to write that in VB has me puzzled, got myself a book on VB but I am even more puzzled now LOL.
I have it so that if I type the T* into the MDI it will send the signal to the PLC to start the indexing, just dont know how to write it so that it waits for the correct tool signal, shuts down the PLC then goes on its merry way :D
Hood
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Roo.
Sorry don't have a macro for the HXL yet. It's been a project stalled for a while! Must try to make ammends though, as it's killing me seeing it stood idle while I'm working on the manual lathes next to it!
The HXL turret works in a completely different way anyway. It's stop is fired before it's lifted and idexed. The HXL turret is single direction and sequential. Unlike yours which can go to any position in one cycle. Ever seen a HNC lose an edcoder? I have! Helicopter rotor springs to ming LOL...
I do think though, that VB script may not be responsive enough to fire the stop in time. You may have to spring for a PLC and a little ladder code to do what you require. A PLC will have no trouble.
Wayne....
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Well I had a Eureeka moment whilst turning a few 1.25" Whitworth threads today, how I never messed up the thread I dont know because all I was thinking about was VB LOL
I have my Macro doing a bit more now :D
As Wayne says I think PLC will be needed unless the Galil can handle that side of things?
Hood
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HI, Hood, Wayne...thanks for all the ideas...
I don't know if Mach is fast enough for the vb to do the turret stop...but I think it should be....my galil has 8 outputs and 8 inputs in the normal area, then 64 "extra" I/O that can be configured either as ins or outs...I don't think the the galil is any slower than a plc...I don't know if mach can do a script that fast, though...? there may be the poss. to have a "macro" running in the galil itself...?(galil has it's own language)
If I understand how the hnc turret works, it has sort of "ratchet" teeth to the stop mech, and I think that you have a pretty big time window between when you read the encoder position, and when you fire the stop...as I understand, it would keep turning as long as you are past the ratchet "tooth" for the position...before...also, the encoder hall effect magnet is adjustable relative to the encoder, so you can adjust when the encoder sends it's signal...
I understand that it works like this....
fire solenoid that lifts and turns (turret lifts and starts to turn)
look for commanded encoder position (4 wire digital signal...0001 for example)(for turret positions 1-8)
find signal....Fire stop solenoid...(turret keeps turning until ratchet engages at full stop)(stalls index air motor)
release lift and turn solenoid (stops air motor, drops turret) (need pause to make sure the turret has turned all the way to the stop)
find signal for turret in place limit switch
sooooooo, I guess the easy thing to try, is see if the vb script is fast enough..first...I just need to learn how to write one!
next I guess I would figure how to do the macro in the galil...(if need be)
well, thanks again...chime in if you have any thoughts on any of this...Roo
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just posting to subribe to the thread. I'm considering purchasing one of these and retrofiting it. it's a lot more than $500 though. is that a once in a lifetime find or do these pop up at all regularly at prices like that?
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I found one for less then $500 locally. Just keep looking.
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Thanks, I will. I want one of these to retrofit now. If anyone has one they want to unload send me a message.
I found one for less then $500 locally. Just keep looking.
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If you still need turret macro let me know. Mine works great!
Drew
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Drew, I have a Hardinge CHNC that has a GE Control and I would like to retrofit with a Mach 3. Have you indeed retrofitted one of these?
Larry
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Mine is a HNC late 70's I think and it has stepper motors now. If I had to do it over now digital servo controllers would be my choice. But eight years ago when I removed the servos that would have cost a mint. I think the CHNC is the same base machine wrapped up in a new package.
Drew
For pics of my machine http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,4618.msg32647.html#msg32647
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Mine is a HNC late 70's I think and it has stepper motors now............. I think the CHNC is the same base machine wrapped up in a new package.
The HNC has a 5C collet spindle whereas the CHNC uses the larger 16C collets. Bar capacity is thus increased to (IIRC) 1.5" .