Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: ToadSprockett on August 25, 2006, 07:11:42 PM
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Hi All...
I'm new to Mach and to CNC machining, I have a K2 3925G and intend to use it for making parts in wood, MachII came with the machine. I followed their setup and then printed out the MachII manual, dropped it in a binder and am on my third pass through the manual, there are so many options it's a little daunting. To learn without destroying my machine or my tools I created a little pen holder and have been playing with the software and machine. To that end I have a number of questions that for some reason my brain has not wrapped itself around yet ;D
1. What are the main differences from MachII to MachIII, I have found that the .bmp importer in MachII will deadlock my machine and the one on MachIII works perfectly. Just curious before I upgrade and if I have to re-learn a bunch of stuff.
2. The machine has three home switches and no limit switches so I want to set the soft limits, where do these apply in MachII, are they active in all the different screens??
3. I was looking for a good explanation of what effect the scales had on the axis controls, if I set x and y to 10% do all movements in those axis's increase by 10%?
4. Can I configure the positions for the Goto Toolchange option?
5. What is the Goto Safe Z button supposed to do?
6. There is also a Goto Z's option I didn't see in the manual (I probably missed it)...
I've been able to process a number of files and have gotten a number of images and drawings to work, but until I feel comfortable I'm going to just be using the pen :P
Cheers
-Paul-
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WELCOME Paul !
All I can tell you is that Mach2 is not that great and Mach3 has a ton more goodies! There are many video's on line that will help you set up mach3 and they are all free.. So please upgrade now and we will all help you get up and running.
Thanks
Brian
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Brian we placed the order this morning :), I still have some work that needs to be done so I have a more general question that I need some help on.
Do the tool change parameters in the settings screen work off of the offset or the machine coords? The reason I ask is that I ran into the following:
1. In diagnostics I set my X,Y to 0 on the home switches and the Z to about 3" above the table and set that to 0.
2. In the settings page I cange my Z for the Tool Change position to 1 to pull it 1" above zero.
Then I set my touches as normal..
But when I hit the goto tool change, the z climbs up and smacks the limit... I cannot figure out why in the hell it's doing it, it's the only thing I need to get addressed and I can cut some parts for holders.. What I don't get is that even if it's using the offsets I can do a g0 z1 and it goes to the right place, something else is effecting that position and I can't figure it out...
Thanks
-Paul-
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I take that back, I've got the licence key in my hot little hands right now ), so I'm downloading the R1.84 version and working on getting it installed and setup for my machine. Can convert my settings from MachII over to MachIII or do I have to start from scratch??
Thanks
-Paul-
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You can take a note if the settings in Mach2 and write them down the open Mach3 and configure it. Mach3 is set out a bit differently but you should be able to follow, especially if you have looked at the videos.
You said you only have three home switches but no limits. If the Home switches are at the extremes of the axis you can use them as limits also. When Mach is asked to reference (home) it will use the switches for this, then it will use them after you are referenced as limits. It is also a good idea to set up the soft limits as well, they will stop you hitting the physical limits if you jog a bit too far and will save you having to re-reference the machine.
Hood
Hood
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Also have a look through this thread
http://machsupport.com/forum/index.php?topic=999.0
Think it is the same machine as yours.
Hood
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Also have a look through this thread
http://machsupport.com/forum/index.php?topic=999.0
Think it is the same machine as yours.
Hood
It's the same, I had mine upgraded with better ballscrews to limit backlash. I actually have it running pretty weill in MachII so getting it up and running in MachIII should not be all that hard. The only things I'm struggling with are some of the things like the tool change parameters.
I'm printing out the MachIII manual right now and heading out to the shop to get cracking :)
Thanks
-Paul-
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Hope you have a fast printer ;)
Hood
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Toolchange position is machine coordinates so on your machine Z will always be a negative number (or 0)
Same goes for the safe Z height position, I have mine -5mm.
Hood
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Toolchange position is machine coordinates so on your machine Z will always be a negative number (or 0)
Same goes for the safe Z height position, I have mine -5mm.
Hood
Wait.... aren't negative numbers supposed to be below your work plane??
Hmmmmmm....
So let me see if I understand this:
I zero out Z at the home limit, every machine setting (safez, tool change etc) is a negative number just below that (like -0.500), then I set my offset 0 to the plane of my workpiece and the negative numbers are now correct...
That makes sense now...
The little light just came on.. hahahaha :)
Thanks
-Paul-
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Its a good feeling when the light comes on, happens to me all the time but usually after three or four days of struggling. When my brain eventually clicks into the right gear I think why the heck did I not see that a few days ago ;)
Hood
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Hood is a great guy and you are lucky to have him helping you. The toolcahnge position is not the int he stock tool change macro :( if you would like me to post a macro that uses it I can :)
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OK so I sat down and re-installed 3 to make sure I had the new drivers, setup the pins and ports, checked all the various things...
The E-Stop is permantly on, I keep getting a 'Limit Switch Enabled' error, I checked the E-Stop button settings to be sure and they match MachII, I think the issue is in the home/limits screen.
Here is what I have set:
X Axis
Reversed: Off
Soft Max: 23.00
Soft Min: 0.00
Slow Zone: 1.00
Home Off: 0.000
Home Neg: Off
Auto Zero: On
Speed%: 30
For Y:
Soft Max: 36.50
For Z:
Reversed: On
Softmax: -4.80
All other settings are identical, the machine has three home switches and they are not engaged, I went to the diagnostics screen and the following leds where lit to yellow:
M1 ++Limit M1 --Limit M1 Home
M2 ++Limit M2 --Limit M2 Home
M3 ++Limit M3 --Limit M3 Home
When I trigger the X,Y and Z limit switches those lights all go out...
I'm going to sit down and read through the manual and see if I can make sense of this area, at least I know the controller is talking to MachIII so far.
There's no going back now ;)
Thanks
-Paul-
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Hood is a great guy and you are lucky to have him helping you. The toolcahnge position is not the int he stock tool change macro :( if you would like me to post a macro that uses it I can :)
I've seen that macro floating around, let me get the machine actually running first and then I'll get it and play...
Thanks :)
-Paul-
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The logic status of the emergency stop input line to your parallel port is probaby default set to low. This means that as long as there is no voltage inptu to it you will show an E-stop. Go to the Configuration menu select ports and poins, input signals, then scroll down to e-stop. There is some type of mark in the enable column showing that it is enabled. Click in the active low column to the right and this same mark appears. Apply this change then go back to the program run scren and click the reset button. If it stops flashing your problem is solved.
Tanimura
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If your LEDS are on when the switches are NOT pressed but go out when they are then all you need to do is change the active low setting for them.
Hood
EDIT
You will find this under Config menu -Ports and Pins then Inputs.
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If your LEDS are on when the switches are NOT pressed but go out when they are then all you need to do is change the active low setting for them.
Hood
EDIT
You will find this under Config menu -Ports and Pins then Inputs.
I got up this morning and wen't out and flipped the active low and off the machine went. I can jog the machine now, so that progress. X and Y need to be reversed (I'm eating breakfast so I'll head back out and do that in a bit) the X++ and Y++ hotkeys make it go the wrong way :)
I did notice that when I had the -- Limit set for X & Y and they triggered the switch I could not get it to come out of emergency mode to clear the error and jog out, am I missing something there. I turned those off and only left on the home and was able to jog out of that position.
I'm hoping to have this all setup and operational today, still need to check the motor tuning and other settings but this is a start.
Thanks for the help so far
-Paul-
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Change the Dir low active for the axis that is moving the wrong way. Also have a look on the settings page and turn on "Auto Limits Override"
Hood
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Change the Dir low active for the axis that is moving the wrong way. Also have a look on the settings page and turn on "Auto Limits Override"
Hood
Thanks... It took some tweaking but I finally got X and Y to move the way I wanted and the DRO's to reflect it. One change I would like to see is the reverse button to be put on the ports screen for the motor outputs, having it in the home/limits confused me for a while (could be I'm just easily confused).
Now about the Auto Limits Override, I set it but I can still jog past the numbers in diagnostic, I thought it would stop at the limits? or will it let me be a moron and job into the machine? I have the limits entered into the home/limits screen, the reference buttons take the axis's back to the right position, so I'm not sure if it's me or I missed something...
The help here has been wonderful, as soon as I figure this out I'll test the tool change stuff and break out the dial guage and tune my motors and see if I have to do anything for backlash...
Thanks
-Paul-
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Thanks... It took some tweaking but I finally got X and Y to move the way I wanted and the DRO's to reflect it. One change I would like to see is the reverse button to be put on the ports screen for the motor outputs, having it in the home/limits confused me for a while (could be I'm just easily confused).
Are you talking about reversing an axis or changing the homing direction? If its the latter then I think homing and limits page is the best place for it, but thats just my opinion.
Now about the Auto Limits Override, I set it but I can still jog past the numbers in diagnostic, I thought it would stop at the limits? or will it let me be a moron and job into the machine? I have the limits entered into the home/limits screen, the reference buttons take the axis's back to the right position, so I'm not sure if it's me or I missed something...
The help here has been wonderful, as soon as I figure this out I'll test the tool change stuff and break out the dial guage and tune my motors and see if I have to do anything for backlash...
Thanks
-Paul-
When you say you can Jog past the limits do you mean it stops at a limit then if you reset and jog again it will go past? If yes then that cant be helped as Mach sees a limit as a limit and doesnt actually know which one it is (minus or positive) What you will notice is once a limit has been hit when you jog off it will be at a reduced speed, this is I think to help minimize damage if you jog off in the wrong direction. After you start to Jog off you can release the jog button and press it again and it will continue at full rapids.
If you are meaning that when you jog and hit a limit the movement continues without seeing the limit then you must have the limits set up wrong.
Hood
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I was referring to the motor direction which is on the home screen (or am I smoking something?), you control the home direction with the home 0 button..
At least I think I got that right, it's harder jumping from one version to the other than I though it would :)
Ok on the limits I have the min set to 0 for all three, the max is the machines limits (Z is -4.80), this is all in the home limits dialog. Now if I turn on Auto Limits Override does that look at those values there and stop me from jogging out past the limits? I don't have any limit switches setup, I only did the home ones.
Sorry for all the questions, I read through the MachII mannual twice and some of this I think you just have to kind of plod your way through...
Thanks
-Paul-
Thanks... It took some tweaking but I finally got X and Y to move the way I wanted and the DRO's to reflect it. One change I would like to see is the reverse button to be put on the ports screen for the motor outputs, having it in the home/limits confused me for a while (could be I'm just easily confused).
Are you talking about reversing an axis or changing the homing direction? If its the latter then I think homing and limits page is the best place for it, but thats just my opinion.
Now about the Auto Limits Override, I set it but I can still jog past the numbers in diagnostic, I thought it would stop at the limits? or will it let me be a moron and job into the machine? I have the limits entered into the home/limits screen, the reference buttons take the axis's back to the right position, so I'm not sure if it's me or I missed something...
The help here has been wonderful, as soon as I figure this out I'll test the tool change stuff and break out the dial guage and tune my motors and see if I have to do anything for backlash...
Thanks
-Paul-
When you say you can Jog past the limits do you mean it stops at a limit then if you reset and jog again it will go past? If yes then that cant be helped as Mach sees a limit as a limit and doesnt actually know which one it is (minus or positive) What you will notice is once a limit has been hit when you jog off it will be at a reduced speed, this is I think to help minimize damage if you jog off in the wrong direction. After you start to Jog off you can release the jog button and press it again and it will continue at full rapids.
If you are meaning that when you jog and hit a limit the movement continues without seeing the limit then you must have the limits set up wrong.
Hood
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I was referring to the motor direction which is on the home screen (or am I smoking something?), you control the home direction with the home 0 button..
If your axis is moving in the wrong direction then you can change it by changing the Direction Low Active for that axis, it is on the config - ports and pins - motor outputs page. I am not at the workshop so cant change test things out but I think the reverse on Homing and limits page probably does the same.
Ok on the limits I have the min set to 0 for all three, the max is the machines limits (Z is -4.80), this is all in the home limits dialog. Now if I turn on Auto Limits Override does that look at those values there and stop me from jogging out past the limits? I don't have any limit switches setup, I only did the home ones.
Sorry for all the questions, I read through the MachII mannual twice and some of this I think you just have to kind of plod your way through...
Thanks
-Paul-
You really want to set up your home switches as limits also if at all possible, just enter the pins and port for each axis positive and negative the same as the home is set for that axis. When Mach does a home move it will use the switches as home switches, any other time it will use them as limits.
For the soft limits you may want to set the slow zone a bit bigger, this will mean as the axis gets near to its limit it will slow down so hopefully avoiding an overshoot and hitting the physical limits.
Hood
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Here is where things get really strange to me...
If I go into Ports and Pins and choose input signals, and turn on the X-- signal, the program changes the behavior of the X-Axis motor settings in the home/limits screen.
So for instance, I have X working as I want, I can run a gcode and it does what I expect. But if I change the Input Signals by turning on the X-- it sets the Reversed flag on the X Axis and turns off the Home Neg.
I'm not sure why but it makes setting options super hard because one button effects three others, and it's confusing and actually to me unwanted behavior. Imagine setting one option and suddenly your gantry moves in the other direction!! :)
So let me put the question this way:
If I set the X--, Y-- and Z-- (and reset my other settings back to what I want), then if I move the gantry past the limit the machine will stop and not crash?
Then for my Motor Home/Limits if set my Soft Max to the positive limit of my machine (for the outer limits), MachIII will not allow the gantry's to move past that position if I turn on the Auto LimitOverRide switch?
I need to spend a day and just read through the MachIII manual (I'm getting brain overload), but I thought the Software limits where supposed to limit the machine from running off the end..
Also one other question I noticed while playing, if I press the Goto Z on the program screen it locates the X-Y and then raises the Z, should it not be the other way around, would you not want to raise the tool out of the way first and then position the machine?? There's probably a setting for it somewhere I just have not found yet...
Thanks for the endless help ;)
-Paul-
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Can you post a screenshot of the Input signals page?
For the Z moving, make sure you have the safe Z setting enabled in Config - State, or it could be in Config - Logic, cant remember :(
Hood
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Sure... here ya go...
(http://www.patriotguitars.com/picts/inputs.gif)
Cheers
-Paul-
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OK, you dont have the X++, X--, Y++,Y--, Z++,Z-- enabled, what I suggest is you move all axis to the middle of their travel then go in and change these axis to enabled, also set them all to active low. Now save and reset and try jogging to make sure the axis travel in the direction you expect, if they dont then go into motor outputs and change the Dir Low Active for any axis that is going the wrong way. Then you can manually trip a limit while on the Diagnostics page and you should see the 3 LED for plus, minus and home light up, test with the other axis switches. If thats all working then do a home and see if its going in the right direction for a home, if not then go to homing and limits page and try the Home negative setting for that axis.
Let me know how you get on, Oh also if I remember correctly your Y limit is only for one end of the travel so get ready to hit the Esc key on the keyboard (or E Stop if you have one) if the axis is moving the wrong way and there is not a limit there.
Hood
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Ok done...
The machine only has 1 limit for X and Y (basically a home and -- limit), I actually called them today and orderd a set of switches so I can add another set to the X and Y. I followed your instructions to the T however and here are the screen shots:
(http://www.patriotguitars.com/picts/inputs2.gif)
(http://www.patriotguitars.com/picts/homelimit.gif)
I was able to home everything and it all worked as it should...
So why even have the ++ switches on when there's no switch there??
If there is a problem with getting the switches then I'll get some pieces locally and make them, it's not hard to do at all...
-Paul-
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Do your switches get activated at either end of the axis or just at one end? ie is there a ramp or trigger of some sort at either end of the axis that triggers the switch.
Hood
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There is one switch one each axis, it serves as the home and the 0 limit switch, there is nothing at the positive end of the machine in the way is limit switches.
-Paul-
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Ahh ok your machine must be set up differently than the one Bagpipes has as I am sure at least two of his limits get triggered at each end of their travel.
Is there any way you can do that by setting up something to trigger them?
Hood
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Ahh ok your machine must be set up differently than the one Bagpipes has as I am sure at least two of his limits get triggered at each end of their travel.
Is there any way you can do that by setting up something to trigger them?
Hood
That's why I called K2, I wanted another set of switches to add to the machine. I'll know on tuesday what can be done about it from their side.
For now it is what it is...
-Paul-