Machsupport Forum

Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: yakfisherman on July 24, 2009, 01:55:57 PM

Title: New to Mach3 Turn, need help with tool table
Post by: yakfisherman on July 24, 2009, 01:55:57 PM
I'm a brand new shinny Mach 3 Turn user and just as new to CNC.  Am starting a Mini 7X14 lathe conversion to CNC.  I have configured Mach 3 Turn far enough to allow me me learn to use it without having it connected to a machine.  I need help configuring the tool table, see page 7-9 figure 7.12 in the Mach 3 Turn user manual.  I have the standard AR, AL, BR, BL, and TE turning tools in both HSS and Carbide they are all 3/8" with a 0XA QCTP.  Also have carbide boring bars from 1/8" up to 1/2" which fit a tool holder for the QCTP.  Can someone please help me configure the tool table, there just doesn't seem to be much info in the book on tool table configuration and less in the training video.  Thanks in advance.

Ed
Title: Re: New to Mach3 Turn, need help with tool table
Post by: Chip on July 24, 2009, 10:13:07 PM
Hi, Ed

Someone will be along soon I'm hoping,

Edit: I read through your post to fast, Your tool description listed are standard descriptions for general lathe tools more or less. Lt,  Rt and Straight cutting tools, We just need to find a good basic book on lathe operation and then a transitioning to CNC lathe reference also.

So stand by for the weekend traffic. :D

Chip  ;D
Title: Re: New to Mach3 Turn, need help with tool table
Post by: yakfisherman on July 24, 2009, 10:54:26 PM
Chip

Will do, don't have any other choice, the section in the Mach 3 Turn manual just isn't very clear. don't know what to enter in the Tip Direction column or for that matter the Tip Radius column either I think I understand the X and Z offset but will see.

Thanks

Ed
Title: Re: New to Mach3 Turn, need help with tool table
Post by: Chip on July 25, 2009, 03:06:20 AM
Hi, Ed

"Art" has been working on LazyTurn, To be used with Mach3 and "Rich" has been working on a manual for it .

Hears a link that will get you to the LazyTurn hear at Mach Support, http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/board,73.0.html

I wouldn't get to worked up on the "tool tables" at the moment and read through the LazyTurn and standard G code used in turn manual for starters, Theirs descriptions for tool tip radius and offset angles and lot's of folk's, we'll help get you going.

It'll all start to make sense in a while.

Chip
Title: Re: New to Mach3 Turn, need help with tool table
Post by: Hood on July 25, 2009, 05:06:29 AM
I wouldn't spend too much time on trying to figure all that out, Turn is way behind mill and the tooltable is one of the things that is bad. Brian will be working on Turn next (he better be or I will be paying a visit ;)  )  but when that will be depends on how Rev 4 comes along when released to the masses, could be a few months or more away.
 As the tooltable stands at the moment, choose only front or rear for your tools depending on your setup but definitely under no circumstances have both as it screws things totally. X and Z offsets work well but I have never used tip radius or angle as I let CAM take care of them. Not sure if they work or not as I am not proficient enough at hand coding to utilise them.
Hood
Title: Re: New to Mach3 Turn, need help with tool table
Post by: RICH on July 25, 2009, 10:37:41 AM
ED,
I will assume that you are using the Lathe Turn module and the screen sets provided.
The Mach3 Turn Manual talks about the tool table set-up, but you need to read the manual a number of times to get the whole picture.

Suggest that you grow into a level of automation. Include limit swithes as part of your conversion, since without them, automated use of a quick tool holder will be a PITA. There is tutorial in the members docs for homing a lathe without limit switches, but, there are draw backs to using a lathe that way.

You have steep learning curve ahead of you.
- The lathe screens can be very confusing if you don't understand the different DRO displays as they relate to machine / work/ program coordinates and how you want to apply the program to your work. What "button" cancels what and how that will affect the work offsets / homing / tool setup etc.
- Lathe software -  Gcode specific to the lathe, Wizards, LazyCam (LC), LazyTurn (LT).
  There are tutorials on all three for the lathe in the members docs. Try some of the simple wizards, look at the code, and then do the actual machine set-up moves.
Use LazyTurn first as the manual covers a lot of information about the lathe and is a superb program ( even at this stage of developement ). LazyCam Turn is really not a bad program if you read through the tutorials and know what your looking at in the program and use it as supplement to LT until LT is finished. Take a look at the Arc Motion manual and that will give a good grasp about circles / arc programing  and is rather specific to the lathe. Maybe in a week or so, the LazyCam manual will have a lathe section in it which will provide info on transition form LC Turn to LazyTurn.

For software programs i will qoute myself and challenge anyone out there to show otherwise:

" It is my personal opinion that you should purchase a license for LazyCam. Here is why:
I have not found, as of this writing, a basic CAM program for the mill and LATHE which has a good manual, excellent knowledgeable prompt support, and provides the level of CAM capability directly into MACH for the cost of the license."


That said,  ;) enjoy your new lathe and the learning that goes with CNC,  :)

RICH
Title: Re: New to Mach3 Turn, need help with tool table
Post by: yakfisherman on July 25, 2009, 12:11:42 PM
I must admit this is not the response I was expecting, don't get me wrong I really appreciate the help.  What is the relationship of LazyTurn to Mach3Turn?  Are all of you saying that LazyTurn is just a stepping tool to Mach3Turn?  My plan was to purchase a license for Mach3 which by the way was highly recommended to me by a friend, he uses it to control several mills and at this time is also converting a lathe to CNC operation and planning on using Mach3Turn to control the lathe.

I did download LazyCam and have also just downloaded the LazyTurn and have printed the User Manual.  I will have to install LazyCam first and then install LazyTurn according to the manual LazyCam must be installed.  Will take time to read manual in it's entirety just as I did all 3 of the Mach3 manuals.  See where I am at that point, just skimed through the LazyTurn manual and it looks good.

Thanks all


Ed 
Title: Re: New to Mach3 Turn, need help with tool table
Post by: RICH on July 25, 2009, 12:22:07 PM
You need a program to generate code for the lathe. LazyTurn provides the gcode and Mach3 turn is the program that applies the gcode to do machining.
Understand where you are, we have all been there. Some of us are still there.  ;)

RICH
Title: Re: New to Mach3 Turn, need help with tool table
Post by: yakfisherman on July 25, 2009, 01:18:29 PM
OK, have another question.  Do both LazyCam and LazyTurn both have to be in the Mach# folder along with all associated files or do they need to be in separate folders within the Mach3 folder?  I currently have them in separate folders in the Mach3 folder and when I try to run the setup for LazyTurn I get an error the file lvkrn15u.dll cannot be found.

Ed
Title: Re: New to Mach3 Turn, need help with tool table
Post by: RICH on July 25, 2009, 02:47:43 PM
I would recommend the following:
Install mach3 along with  LazyCam into the default MACH 3 directory.

For LazyTurn:
The manual covers installation so it can be run as a stand alone program.
This way as, any program update files for LazyTurn , will not have any effect on LazyCam.

RICH
Title: Re: New to Mach3 Turn, need help with tool table
Post by: yakfisherman on July 25, 2009, 02:50:51 PM
Copied the LazyTurn execute file to the LazyCAM folder and LazyTurn now loads but it is version 1.  The manual directs me to lazyturn thread, reply $1056, page 106 for a different version.  I downloaded it and put it is the folder with LazyCAM but when I try to start it I get and error: This application has failed to start because sgCore.dll was not found.  How do I fix this?  What is the most current version of LazyTurn program?

Ed
Title: Re: New to Mach3 Turn, need help with tool table
Post by: RICH on July 25, 2009, 03:31:13 PM
LazyTurn installation:

Go top the "DOWNLOADS" very top of screen>Mach & Lazycam, Then download Lazycam v3.00.2 and also the
Update. Install v3.00.2 and then install the update. ( I happen to install them to a seperate directory called Lazyturn)

The latest lazyturn exe file is in this post ( sorry manual a little out of date ):  Download the file to say c:/AAAA
and extract it to the that directory.  Just copy the exe file to the LazyTurn fOLDER  and say yes to replace the other exe file.

Page 107 - reply #1067
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,5767.msg74320.html#msg74320

NOTE: LC v3.00.2 UPDATE just updates the installed LazyCam for additional or specific file for LazyTurn.
The other file is just the latest update for LazyTurn. Oh BTW....you may want create a  shortcut to it.

Hope I got it right,
RICH
Title: Re: New to Mach3 Turn, need help with tool table
Post by: Chip on July 25, 2009, 03:33:19 PM
Hi, Ed

I sent you a PM message, top of this screen by your user name pic 1.

Ver 1.1 is most current post #1067 , Did you install LazyCam Update from the downloads page, You may need this also pic3.

Chip
Title: Re: New to Mach3 Turn, need help with tool table
Post by: yakfisherman on July 26, 2009, 11:25:18 AM
Thanks to all who replied especially Chip.  He went out of his way to help me resolve this strange issue.  I had followed all of the instructions for setting this up and was still having problems.  Seems that the LazyCam update failed 2 times and didn't load a dll file that was needed.  WithChip's help this issue was resolved and now LazyTurn is working just fine and even looks like the screen pics in the manual.  Thanks a lot Chip, this forum is really lucky to have people like you who are willing to help someone in need of assistance.

Ed