Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: rooney on July 22, 2009, 05:46:06 PM
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Does this screenshot mean that pins 12 & 13 are fried on my PC?? Nothing is hooked up to the port yet. I'm running normally closed x--(11), y--(12), z++(13), and [x++ y++ z-- in series].
Why, with nothing hooked up, would my led indicators not light up on m2--limit, m2home, m3++limit, and m3home?
Thanks,
Rooney
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Certainly looks like it if you have nothing connected at all, could be a dodgy cable though if you have that connected.
Hood
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Thanks Hood,
Nothing connected at all. :( Will have to try the installation on another pc I have in the house. Though this one will suffice as a replacement for that one.
Thanks again,
Rooney
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Hood,
I don't want to sound like I don't like your answer. But, I have been thinking about it and since I have my state set as active high, doesn't that mean that those particular pins are seeing a 5 volt reading? If so, how could that be if they are smoked? I am going to pull a pci parallel port card out of another computer tonight and try it, but I sure am befuddled by this. It could be, however, that my lack of computer hardware knowledge is where my confusion stems from. :)
Thanks,
Rooney
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I often cant get my head around things so dont worry about not believing me because I dont believe myself 99.99% of the time ;D
What I see is that all the LEDs for Home/Limit should be lit because you dont have them grounded. The ones that are NOT lit seems to suggest to me that they are internally grounded in the port.
Hopefully you will get the answer with the PCI.
Hood
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Just thinking, make sure you have the correct address set for the port as if you dont it may show weird things.
Hood
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Thanks Hood,
Switched to different pc that has never had the port used and now this is what I get. I am running everything normally closed with nothing hooked up to the port. As you can see, nothing is configured differently. So why would m1-- amd m1 home be lighting up? Additionally my estop on pin 10 is requiring that it be checked to be able to reset. Nothing is hooked up as I said before. Could I be having troulbe with whatever version I am trying to run? It is Mach3 version 3.042.020.
On, maybe, the same note........I cannot find, when I open Control Panel/System/Hardware/Device manager..........any expandable category called "ports".
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I would say that is your problem, because you have the address for the port set to a non existant port then whatever you see will not be real.
To test this theory out go to device manager and uninstall the Pulse Engine then start Mach and try again, that should put you in simulation mode and it should work fine.
Did you try with the PCI card? If so did you get the correct address for that card?
Hood
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While lookin at the parallel port card I realized that the (replacement aformentioned and current pc's ) card is not your regular pci slot type of card. It is shorter in both slot and card length. So, I didn't switch it, but I am, however, using it.
Question is: how does uninstalling the pulse engine fix my problem as I will have to have it installed to run the drivers and motors?
Will let you know on the results of the pulse engine uninstall.
Thanks for the response, Hood.
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Uninstalling it will put it in simulation mode and will (should ) let you see if it works as expected. As you say however it wont be useable for a machine so it is just a test.
If it then works as expected then it is likely that the reason you are getting the problem is because you have the port address asigned wrongly.
Hood
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result was that whether or not anything is set to active low or active high nothing lights up on the diagnostic tap as far as input signals current state.
I'm starting to scratch my head as my hair is falling out... :(
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Can you attach your xml and I will see if I can find a problem.
Hood
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Will try.
Thanks Hood.
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Hopefully I did this right.... :P
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Working fine here, set them to Active Hi and perfect. You will need to make sure that 0378 is the correct port address, if it is then I dont understand what can be wrong.
Hood
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Thanks Hood,
How do I find the ports if they do not show up on device manager?
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Start, All Programmes, Accessories, System Tools, System Information Then go to Components in that window then Ports then Parallel
Hood
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Soooo.......If I get to that point and expand the + symbol and see nothing under either serial or parallel, then I either don't have a driver installed for that port or my computer just is not seeing it?
Update........my attachment doesn't show parallel instead it shows serial.......but under parallel, the same thing is displayed......nothing.
Of course I'm including photographic evidence... :)
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Certainly seems like windows is not seeing your port and if windows doesnt see it then unlikely Mach will be able to :(
Hood
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OK....I reinstalled mach3, reinstalled the parallel port and manually configured it to be the 348 number.
Could the problem be that it is a PCI Express card slot? This is my card:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3260276
Thanks,
Rooney
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Does windows see it now? If so then as long as it is a proper parallel port then it should work with Mach.
Hood
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Forgive the flood of screenshots, but I'm hoping you can confirm that I am seeing a corectly installed port. I am thinking that it is?
I'm at a loss. If it is installed right, then perhaps I need to start considering the purchase of a regular 5v 32bit PCI parallel card?
Thanks Hood,
Rooney
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Yes it is lpt#3 at 378 address. Should work.
(;-0 TP
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So that leads me back to the question of why my inputs for M1-- and M1home are not displaying an LED when they are configured just like the other input pins. Nothing is hooked up to the parallel port. So it can't be external. I have the pins all set to active high which should indicate a triggered switch since nothing is hooked up. Pins 12, 13, 15, and 10 do this, but pin 11 doesn't.
I guess that is why I am second guessing the parallel port card (pci express).
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3260276
At this point, I am kind of dead in the water.
Thanks,
Rooney
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It seems to me that for some reason your card is still not being seen properly. Try shorting the pins to Gnd on the ones that do work and see if the state changes, also do the same for the ones that are not working. If neither change then Mach is looking at the wrong port for some reason.
Hood
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Will do that and report back tonight when I get home.
Thanks Hood,
Rooney
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What does this mean? (pin 11 being inverted that is?) Does that mean that in order to run active high, I have to be checked active low?
It would make sense in respect to what I am seeing.....
http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~ih/doc/par/
Or, is this even the type of parallel I'm using?
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YOU do realize that not all pins on the port are bidirectional. Some are inPut only some are output only on Machs port useage..
(;-)
ONly on Mach port 2 can you set it up to be all input
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Thanks for the input Vmax! Yeah, the pins I'm using for input are 10, 11, 12, 13, 15. My question is whether or not that single inverted pin on inputs (11) is causing me to have to set it as active low in order to make the led light up on the diagnostic tab. I have nothing hooked up to the parallel. So nothing should be able to recieve the 5v signal, right? Or am I wrong?? I'm not totally sure. My table is wired to have the limits and homes all normally closed. So I would want active high, right? ???
I just got home and I am going to try what hood said.
Thanks
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One queston:
Are any of the pins 18-25 a suitable ground pin for any of pins 10, 11, 12, 13, and 15?
Sorry for the bombardment of questions?
Thanks,
Rooney
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You can use any of the pins (18 to 25) for Gnd or even just use the port case or even the computer case for that matter, they should all be tied together.
As for pin 11 I dont think you need to concern yourself about that, one thing however, can you change the type of port it functions as? If its set to ECP then it may not work, you want to set it to EPP.
Hood
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WHat IS your lpt mode set for in the bios?
(;-)TP
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THe best way to confirm is to check your bios for the proper mode of the LPT port
Set up one pin to one function test that pin.
change the config to the next pin and test
repeat for all pins
That way if it works on one it should work on all
Just a thought (;-) TP
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I think its a PCI card so dont think it will be in the BIOS, that is why I asked if it could be configured as some PCI cards can and others cant.
Hood
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My pc inside (the first offender that I changed from) system/hardware/device manager/ports and looked at properties ....Calls itself ECP Printer port
The one I'm currently using says only "Printer Port (LPT3)" there. Also, in start/all programs/accesories/system tools/system information/components/ports, and that doesn't doesn't show that either.
Where do I look for this setting (If the port even properly exists) and how do I change it?
Also, from what you said earlier, Hood, could the inside pc have not acted properly due to being a ecp port.
Additionally, how do I check the bios?
Thanks Guys!
Rooney
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If the first computer had it set as ECP then that is likely your problem with that one. To change in the BIOs you need to find the port settings, it will depend on the BIOS but will be called something like Advanced Chipset or Advanced Settings.
As for the PCI then it may have jumpers or maybe a config utility or possibly even in device manager. It may however not be possible to change it.
Hood
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I jumped from pin 12 to pin 25 and recieved no result. So, like you said Hood, Mach does not seem to be seeing my port. I think that my next step will be to determine whether or not the first pc I had trouble with will do the job. Unforrtunately, I will need to figure out how to change from ECP to EPP. Not sure that I am comfortable messing around in BIOS. And on top of that, I'm not sure I totally understand how to even access it. I know that you start your pc and hit delete a few times or F2 if that doesn't work?? I'm going to try.
Edit:
On the original pc, I went into the BIOS and changed the port to EPP. I found it under "Integrated Settings" or some similar name. It still reads as ECP in 'system information' under components. I'm sure I changed it because when I went back into BIOS, it was still set as such. Do I need to do something else within windows now?
Second pc, the one I am currently setting up in the garage (the pci express card) I went into BIOS and changed under 'pnp/pci' to "show initial" to 'pci express' as opposed to 'pci'.
THe best way to confirm is to check your bios for the proper mode of the LPT port
Set up one pin to one function test that pin.
change the config to the next pin and test
repeat for all pins
That way if it works on one it should work on all
Just a thought (;-) TP
On the pci express card one, I jumped from pin 10 (e-stop) to pin 25 and then reset. Same result as 12 - 25.
Am I confirming not seeing the port there?
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On the original PC try deleting the port from device manager then rescanning for hardware changes so windows finds it again.
Hood
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I will try that when I get home.
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Well, that doesn't work either.
I Went into bios and made sure the parallel port was set to EPP. Then I saved changes and exited. Windows opened and I went to device manager and opened ports....ECP still there. I unistalled the ECP port and immediately scanned for hardware changes. No change. Back to ECP.........
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That is weird indeed, do you have a screenshot of the device manager showing it? Its not that I am not believing you, just I may see something.
Hood
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This is after I uninstalled the port in device manager, turned off the computer (not a restart), turned o the computer, went into the root menu/integrated devices/parallel port and went through the options of 'off,at,ps/2/epp,ecp' stopped at EPP and saved changes and exited. When windows opened, I tried to open add hardware under control panel, but it said I had to wait as it was already installing hardware. Low and behold, the hardware it was installing was the ECP port.......again. So, I again tried to scan for hardware changes and got nothing.
On a side note though....While in the bios I saw that under the option of ecp port, it asks if I would like the DMA channel on or off??
Is that of any significance?
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Thanks for being so quick to respond BTW.
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DMA is direct memory access, cant recall ever seeing that in the BIOS associated with the parallel port but suppose I have just missed it. I would try with it in both states, more likely to be disabled though.
Hood
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STill no change. I rechecked pins at the back. It is still apparent aht 12 & 13 don't work on this computer. 15,13, & 11 are good. At this point, I'll try to reconfigure with that until I can get a pci card for this pc. (it's one of those little desktop Dells that has a different length of slot cover due to it's small size). I'm going to change my configure to x--=11, y--=15 and all others run series to 10. I'll share 11&15 as homes for x & y. The rest can be set as soft limits, right?
What, exactly, is the method of checking the direction and pulse pins?
Edit: I will search for that as I'm sure it's been covered.
ReEdit: Hood, just so happens you're the one answering the question there too. LOL
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,10213.msg63230.html#msg63230
I've been meaning to ask if you ever sleep....
Next step if that is successful.........hooking up to the control box.
Both of you guys have been a great help.
Thanks,
Rooney
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So when you say
15,13, & 11 are good.
you are meaning the LEDs change state when you short them to ground?
Hood
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Yes,
Pins 12 & 13 would do nothing no matter active high or active low configured.
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I am meaning if you short the pins to a gnd pin does the state of the LED in Mach change?
Hood
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Yes. Under the diagnostic tab in Mach the LED does change off and on when I short to ground. All except 12 and 13. Wchich doesn't change configured as active high or as active low.
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Ah OK then the port has to be bad as that means Mach is seeing the correct port.
Hood
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I'm going to check the rest of the pins as far as the outputs go. What do you think the chances are that only those two pins are fried? If that were the case, I could work around that for now. What all does mach use?? In my case, wouldn't it be just 2-7, 10, 11, 15, and 18-25? I checked all of 18-25 against 10 and they all seemed to work (lighting up the LED's). I think I know how to check the outputs (2-7). But what about pins 1, 16, & 17. What role do they play, if any?
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1 16 and 17 can be set as outputs like any other pin so just set them up as for example output 1, 2 and 3 and then to test go to to Operator menu then VB Editor, in the window that pops up paste this then click on the green arrow while watching the diagnostics page.
ActivateSignal(OutPut1)
Sleep 1000
DeActivateSignal(OutPut1)
ActivateSignal(OutPut2)
Sleep 1000
DeActivateSignal(OutPut2)
ActivateSignal(OutPut3
Sleep 1000
DeActivateSignal(OutPut3)
What should happen is Output 1 LED switch on for 1 second then Output 2 then 3
Hood
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Are those pins necessary though? I don't need any more outputs unless any of 2-7 turn out to be bad.
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If you dont need them then no, if you add coolant or whatever later then you may want them.
Hood
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Cool. I'll post later to let you know what I find on the other outputs.
Thanks Again Hood,
Rooney
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No luck with the direction pins. None of them showed any voltage when jogged. Maybe the on-board parallel just won't work with this card. I changed the active setting in motor outputs and still nothing on any of the direction pins. I walked away at that point and did not even attempt to try the step pins. Accidentally switched the (analog) meter to continuity and had that. I don't have any cash for a couple of weeks. So I am trying to find someone with a card that will trade for it.
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had someone give me a card. It is a StaTech ISA2S1P. Unfortunately, it requires a LOONG pci express slot, which my video card is already occupying. Looking at other options. I have a buddy that may have a card.
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Your not having much luck :(
Hood
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Yeah, things definately are not going my way. I'm going to talk to my boss on Monday and see if I can't put a card on my tool account. Otherwise, I'll be waiting to order for at least two weeks.
Thanks Hood,
Rooney
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I ordered this today.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815166007
Thanks for the help, Guys.
Rooney
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Looks like a nice card, keeping fingers crossed for you.
Hood
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Well, last night I put the card in the pc that already has the pci express parallel in it. No luck. I'm getting the same results as before. m1-- and m1home are not seeing lighting up when set to active high. I checked the pins with a jumper and there was no result, even on pins that did light up as tripped on the diagnostic screen. So it seems that Mach is yet again not seeing this new port? I'm going to try this on the other pc tonight.
On a side note: How would I know whether or not I was getting 5 volts to that pci slot on the mother board. I saw that someone added a 5 volt supply in this thread:
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,11300.0.html
Are they talking about a cable that goes from the pc's power supply to the motherboard somewhere??? I have a 4-pin connector that comes from the power supply that is plugged into nothing. I also have what appears to be a male 4-pin coming out of the motherboard next to the pci slot.
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I would read the manual for that particular motherboard before I started plugging anything in.
On the port, if you short the other pins to Gnd do the LED states change on Diagnostics page? If they do then Mach is seeing the correct port.
Hood
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Oh and the 5v being talked about is likely to be the breakout board that he is using needs a 5v supply, not the parallel port.
Hood
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When the pins were shorted to ground, nothing changed state under the diagnostics tab. I think that it's just not recognizing the port. Windows installed it and says that it is working properly.
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have you found and entered the address in Mach?
Hood
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In system information it shows nothing listed under ports. But in device manager. it does. As a matter of fact it is showing two. One of which is a ribbon port that comes off of the card itself for an additional port. Why would this be?
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You may need to reboot before it shows. Have you tried both adresses that are showing in device manager?
Hood
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Ok, this is going to sound realy absent minded, but no. I didn't. I went through two ports finally getting a result from BC00 on LPT3. Inputs all check out. Direction pins set to active high give me a negative reading (not sure what since I'm using an analog meter. Step pins do nothing when set to active high. And when I set them to active low, they jump to 5v and will not release from 5v until I set back to active high, reset, and jog again? They then go back to 0V Is this what I am supposed to be seeing? I sure hope :).
Thanks for your help again!
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Oh..Also, under that port in device manager, I enabled plug and play. Maybe that helped too? I don't know.
Thanks
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Step pins will show either 5v or 0v depending on the active High setting, so thats fine. You should see some difference in the voltage when you jog but it will depend how fast you are jogging and frequency as to how much of a voltage change you will see.
Dir pins should change from 5v to 0v as you jog one way then the next.
Hood
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The step pins would jump to 5v from 0v (active low) when I initially pressed the jog. But then they would never drop back to 0v after releasing the jog button. Is that because nothing is hooked up to the dir pin for that motor? I never set the dir pins to active low, but did get a reading when the jog button is pushed. However the reading was from 0v to a negative value.
If I set one pin on a motor (step) to active low, does the other (dir) need to be set active low as well in order for it to work properly?
Edit: In the red highlighted area, I should say that it does not return to 0v when I stop jogging.
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They should go back to zero, just check there is not a really slow accell set for these axis as that would mean it would takle a long time for it to gio back to zero. It will never however get as high as 5V on the step pins as far as a meter is concerned as the meter will only read the average. The faster the pulse the higher you will see.
Hood
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So, if I have step set to low in order to get a reading, should dir be set to low as well? Like I said, set active high it is giving a negative value.
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No you can have Dir set to what you want although some drives are particular about which way it is.
I cant think why you would see a negative voltage unless you had the leads of your meter connected the wrong way round then you would see zero to minus voltage when jogging rather than zero to positive.
Hood
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Thanks Hood,
I will try this stuff out tonight.
Rooney
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I tired changing the accelleration and ther was no result. The voltage still stays at 5v. I get 5v on both step and dir. On step though, I do have to set to check in motor outputs in order to get any results. Then, to get it to not read 5v, I have to uncheck it, apply, reset, and jog again in order to go back to 0v. ??? Just letting off the button will not return me to 0v. Dir give 5v until I reverse the jog to the other direction.
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Hi, Rooney
Sent you a PM message, Download this printer port tester software, see pic and we can do some testing with it.
In ports & pins set mach to Sherline 1/2 step mode, Apply, OK, Then setup the pp monitor per pic 3 & 4.
You should be able to see the pin led's flash and change State if it's working by holding the direction keys down in cont jog mode.
Chip
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Thanks Chip,
I have one weding and two receptions today, so I downloaded the software and will try tonight.
Thanks
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Hi, Rooney
Did you get the PM message I sent you, It's at the top of this screen click on your messages.
Chip