Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: kolias on July 19, 2009, 05:43:16 PM
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After a long wait, yesterday I was able finally to fire up MACH3 for the 1st real try. After setting the pins etc. I was able to jog the 3 motors and that was enough for me. Now I need some adjustments on my CNC router which I was expecting. All settings I did on MACH3 were saved under my Profile.
Today, after some adjustments on the machine and the controller (that is the console housing all the electronics), I fired up MACH3 again but now I could not jog the motors at all. Pressing the arrow keys did nothing.
I noticed on the diagnostic screen under “Port1 Pins Current State” that no green lights were lit wheres yesterday I had a few lights ON. Also noticed a new message “No Shuttle Detected of Type Selected”
The only adjustments I did on the machine were to align the bearings on the 3 axis, and change the step mode on the 3 drivers.
Any idea why I can’t jog the motors now?
Thank you
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Changing the step switches on the drives will mean you have to reset your Steps per unit and also retune your accel and Velocity.
Do the numbers in X Y and Z DROs change when you Jog?
Hood
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Changing the step switches on the drives will mean you have to reset your Steps per unit and also retune your accel and Velocity.
Do the numbers in X Y and Z DROs change when you Jog?
Hood
That is my 1st run with MACH3, and obviously I have no experience with the software. Thanks for pointing out that I have to reset some parameters.
Yes the DRO's change when I jog the motors
Nicolas
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Check to make sure you are using the same profile that you did the first time, also check to see if the xml is set as read only.
Hood
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Check to make sure you are using the same profile that you did the first time, also check to see if the xml is set as read only.
Hood
i know that the profile is the same, I can see it at the bottom right of the screen.
I dont know about the XML. Where do I check this out? Does MACH3 makes an XML when I input my parameters? I know that XML is a config file but I did not use one when I started MACH3. I just input my parameters like pin numbers and ports
Nicolas
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Mach stores all the config settings in a xml, it is associated with the profile you use and will be named as such. If you are using the standard Mill profile then it will be called Mach3Mill.xml you will find it in the Mach3 folder.
Hood
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Mach stores all the config settings in a xml, it is associated with the profile you use and will be named as such. If you are using the standard Mill profile then it will be called Mach3Mill.xml you will find it in the Mach3 folder.
Hood
I found the file with my profile name and it is not read only.
Thank you for the excellent info
Nicolas
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The info doesnt get saved to the xml until you shut Mach down so if it didnt shut down properly then any settings you changed would not be stored. Rev4 of Mach will do things differently so that wont be an issue in the future.
If you still have problems just shout and hopefully someone will have an answer :)
Hood
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I tried today to jog the motors again with no success.
Then decided to delete the XML file and start from scratch. Now it worked but I discovered along the way that my problem was with the dip switches which are setting the motor steps. Although I have 8 possible combinations to set, the motors respond only when the setting is at “Full Step (Mode 8 Fixed)”.
The other combinations are: Full Step (Mode F Fixed), Half Step, Half Step (Mode F Fixed), Quarter Step, Eighth Step, Sixteenth Step, and Sleep.
I asked the manufacturer about it and waiting for an answer
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Hopefully you will get an easy answer.
Hood
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Hopefully you will get an easy answer.
Hood
Well the answer is easy but I dont like it. They said to ship the drivers back and they will send me new ones. That can take up to 20 days.
Thinking on my own I believe that perhaps I may have done something wrong myself, perhaps with the mach configuration. Since I have no experience I'm shooting in the dark here.
Is there any test I can do to make sure that mach is configured ok? Any other ideas?
Thank you
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If it works when you have full step set but not when you have any other setting then it is not a Mach config issue. Setting the switches to half step or multi step will make the motors go slower if you dont adjust the steps per unit in motor tuning accordingly BUT they will still turn. Your problem is either a hardware fault or a hardware config issue.
Hood
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If it works when you have full step set but not when you have any other setting then it is not a Mach config issue. Setting the switches to half step or multi step will make the motors go slower if you dont adjust the steps per unit in motor tuning accordingly BUT they will still turn. Your problem is either a hardware fault or a hardware config issue.
Hood
Thank you Hood
I will go over my electronics tomorrow with a fine tooth comb to see if I can find anything wrong.
I find it hard to believe that there is something wrong with the driver boards. These things (PCB) are made and checked in production. Unless you wire them wrongly and fry them they will always work and since the power LED on each of my drivers is ON, I cant believe that there is something wrong with the drivers.
Thanks again
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I only sent back one driver board, the other 2 are ok and I'm trying to configure in the mean time whatever I can.
When I jog the motors, the axis only moves back and forth about 1/2". Even when I press the continue mode and hold the keyboard arrow down, the axis does not move more than 1/2".
What I have to do to get the axis from one end to the other?
Thank you
Nicolas
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Do you get a message in the ticker window? Just thinking you may have the softlimits set up and its only allowing you that 1! travel.
Hood
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Do you get a message in the ticker window? Just thinking you may have the softlimits set up and its only allowing you that 1! travel.
Hood
Dont know what the ticker window is but I dont see any message anywhere anyway. I notice that the DRO are moving but not the axis.
Nicolas
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Sounds like you may have your motors stalling, are they making a noise when they have stopped? If so drop your velocity and acceleration way down and see if that helps. If it does then start increasing the velocity until it stalls again then drop down a good bit then increase the accelleration until it stalls again then find the happy medium between velocity and accell.
Hood
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Thank you Hood, perhaps what you are saying it's true. Let me give it a try and I will post back.
Right now I try to figure out how to connect some relays to get my Estop/Limits working
Nicolas
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Sounds like you may have your motors stalling, are they making a noise when they have stopped? If so drop your velocity and acceleration way down and see if that helps. If it does then start increasing the velocity until it stalls again then drop down a good bit then increase the accelleration until it stalls again then find the happy medium between velocity and accell.
Hood
You are right Hood, I did what you said and now all is good
My velocity is at 81 in/min and acceleration 9 in/min. Kind of slow when I jog but motors are quite and smooth
Are the above numbers average, good, bad ?
Also noticed that if I keep my finger on the keyboard arrow button the axis travel in one direction and if I lift the finger and press again the same arrow button the same axis travels in the opposite direction.
Still a heck of a lot to learn but I will take one at a time
Much appreciated
Nicolas
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Hi, Nicolas
Never seen that happen, What happens if you press the opposite arrow key and then try the original one again ?
Dose it just happen on one axis ?
Have you used the Jog Pendant ("Tab" key pop-up) ?
Chip
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Hi, Nicolas
Never seen that happen, What happens if you press the opposite arrow key and then try the original one again ?
Dose it just happen on one axis ?
Have you used the Jog Pendant ("Tab" key pop-up) ?
Chip
I have set the jog to "Continue"
Yes if I press the opposite arrow key it changes the direction but if I keep my finger in one key it keeps going until I release this key. Then if I press it again it is going in the opposite direction. Nothing wrong for me, it's more convenient.
Yes I have used the Jog Pendant but is much easier to use the arrow keys. I use the Pendant to change the jog parameters.
I only have the X and Z axis working. My Y axis driver was defective and sent it back. Waiting for the new one to arrive soon
Nicolas
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Can you attach your xml please, something is not right and may bite your arse if you leave it that way as one time you may be expecting it to reverse and it wont.
Hood
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Here is my XML
Thank you
Nicolas
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Looks ok and works ok here, just wondering if your keyboard could be the culprit?
Hood
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Let me give another try and I will post back. It is possible that my keyboard could be defective since I use an old laptop but I doubt it. Keyboard works fine otherwise
Nicolas
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I posted the following message in the g-code section of this forum and got no answer. Did I do something wrong?
I have been able to adjust my three axis and they all work fine and smooth while I jog the motors. Now I think it’s time to set the home / limits on Mach3. This is my first build of a CNC router with a table size of 48”x26”, travel of each axis is approx X=24”, Y=38”, Z=9”.
I would have like to have a simple g-code to move the axis for testing. Like I would like to jog lets say the X axis to the home position and the run a g-code to say “move X axis from 0” to +24” and then the g-code will terminate. Then I will repeat this for the Y and Z axis. I would prefer not to have a g-code that will test all 3 axis at the same time. One axis at a time is much better for me
Is this the right way to do it?
Obviously I have no experience at all with mach3 or g-code but I’m learning as I go along.
Nicolas
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Easiest way is just to use MDI
If you type G0X0 then press Enter the X will go to your Work Offset X zero
if you then type G0X24 and press enter then it will go to X24
Both of these are at rapid speed, if you prefer to do it at a certain feedrate then use a G1 as follows
G1X0F50
Hood
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Easiest way is just to use MDI
If you type G0X0 then press Enter the X will go to your Work Offset X zero
if you then type G0X24 and press enter then it will go to X24
Both of these are at rapid speed, if you prefer to do it at a certain feedrate then use a G1 as follows
G1X0F50
Hood
Thank you Hood
5 minutes after I sent my message here, I got 2 replies in the g-code section of this forum.
Yours along the one from RICH are enough to get me going
My defective driver board was shipped last Wednesday. I hope to start making some "light dust" some times next week.
Nicolas
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Sounds good :)
Hood
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I sent the message below to RICH but noticed that he is offline. Would you happen to know how to print this file?
Thank you
Nicolas
You can click on the g-codes button next to the reset button and it will give you a listing and definition of the gcodes.
RICH
That button has a lot of "goodies" which I would have liked to print but I can't find a way to print it.
Is there any way that I can print the "Summary of G-Codes"
Nicolas
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You can open it with a browser such as Opera, Firefox or Internet Explorer then you should be able to print, just hope you have a load of paper ;D
Hood
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Oh meant to say you will find it in the Mach3 folder, double clicking should automatically open it in a browser. It is called Mach3MillGcode.htm
Hood
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Oh meant to say you will find it in the Mach3 folder, double clicking should automatically open it in a browser. It is called Mach3MillGcode.htm
Hood
Excellent Hood, you made my day.
I looked in the mach3 folder but was looking for gcode something file. Now I got it and it is only 22 pages, nice weekend reading
In comparison to mach3mill.pdf and mach3install.pdf (157 / 106 pages each) which I printed before, this one is a piece of cake
Thanks so much
Nicolas
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I’m only working with 2 driver boards right now so today I switched the boards to have the Y & X axis running for adjustments.
I have the steps set at 2000, and the kernel speed at 25000Hz.
The X axis (with an approx. travel of 22”) is running real nice at 80”velocity and 9” acceleration
However after a lot of tries I got the Y axis (with an approx. 34” travel) half working at 85” velocity and 6” acceleration. When I press the keyboard arrow keys the axis moves nicely for about 4” to 6” and then the motor whines and I lift my finger from the keyboard because I don’t want to force the motor. Now if I press the same arrow button again it reverses direction and again goes about 4” to 6” and I stop it again for the same reason.
This does not happen at the same spot because by playing around I have been able to move the gantry from one end to the other although is steps of 4” to 6” at a time.
The Y axis does not bind anywhere because I used my screwdriver as a motor and she runs nice and smooth from one end to the other.
What it means when the motor whines? Not enough torque? Too much torque? Any ideas?
Nicolas
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That is the motor atalling, you need to reduce the velocity a bit and see if that helps. Maybe the accell needs dropped a bit as well but try with the Velocity first.
Hood
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That is the motor atalling, you need to reduce the velocity a bit and see if that helps. Maybe the accell needs dropped a bit as well but try with the Velocity first.
Hood
I will give it a try, thank you
Nicolas
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You probably understood but above I said atalling, meant stalling but just got in after a long drive (for me, I hate driving) so thats my excuse ;D
Hood
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You probably understood but above I said atalling, meant stalling but just got in after a long drive (for me, I hate driving) so thats my excuse ;D
Hood
No problem Hood, I understood stalling anyway. I don't hate driving but prefer to play with my CNC instead LOL
I watched the video “Home Limits & Offsets.swf” and at the top right in the Program Run window screen (Tool:0 Table Display) I could see the outline of the table and the co ordinates moving when he was jogging the motors.
I have set the soft limits in my machine but I can’t see the table outline on that window.
Do you know what I’m doing wrong?
Nicolas
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You press the Display button to toggle between Table displat and Part display, you need to also regenerate after the Display button has been pressed. Another thing is you need some code loaded before the table will display.
It is possible to alter the VB in the display button so that it automatically refreshes, see here for my post http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,12227.0.html
Hood
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Ahhh, you got to load the roadrunner to get the display going, now it works fine, thanks a lot
Looking at the other post you suggested, that is another issue I have which I could not figure out; how to zoom.
My laptop does not have a mouse wheel; can I zoom without a mouse wheel?
Where is the VB file to add the code DoOemButton(160)?
Thank you
Nicolas
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Yes you can zoom with the mouse and keyboard, press the shift key while you hold down the left mouse then move the mouse and it will zoom in and out. Pressing the left key and holding then moving the mouse will rotate, right key and moving will pan.
To alter the code go to Operator menu then Edit Button Scripts, the VB buttons will be flashing so click on the Display button and the editor will open and you can add the code.
Hood
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Forgot to say double left click will reset to plan view.
Hood
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So much to learn, thanks again
Nicolas
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Yes, there sure is , as they say "Every day is a School day"
Hood
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From the attached image, there are a few columns which are not explained properly:
Reversed: this means that the axis travel is reversed? But why I want to have this axis reversed? In the tutorial (home limits & offsets) he only has the X axis reversed.
Soft Max & Soft Min: I understand the soft max is the max travel of the axis but why the soft min is 0?
Home Off. Is this Home Off or Home Offset? If it is Home Off, why I want to have it Off?
Home Neg: What is the meaning of this? How the Home position can be negative?
At the bottom left of this window there is “G28 home location coordinates” What is the meaning / purpose of this?
Thank you
Nicolas
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Sorry forgot the image
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From the attached image, there are a few columns which are not explained properly:
Reversed: this means that the axis travel is reversed? But why I want to have this axis reversed? In the tutorial (home limits & offsets) he only has the X axis reversed.
If your axis travels the wrong direction you can physically swap motor wires or you can reverse this setting and it will reverse the Dir signal. You can also change the Active Low setting for the direction signal to do this but some drives are particular about whether that is active High or Active Low so the reverse option is best.
Soft Max & Soft Min: I understand the soft max is the max travel of the axis but why the soft min is 0?
SoftMin for X and Y is zero and Z Max is zero, this is because this is the extent in machine coordinates when you home the machine. You want X and Y zero to be at the lower left of the table as it would be if you were looking at a X Y graph on a piece of paper.
Home Off. Is this Home Off or Home Offset? If it is Home Off, why I want to have it Off?
Home off is a value you can set if your home switch is not at the above location, it could be at the opposite end of the table or even in the middle of the travel. You would then set a Home Off value so that Mach knows the real machine coords zero is that amount away from where your home switch is.
For example on my lathe my switch for the X axis is midway on the travel (have front and rear toolposts) so when I home the tool is sitting at 270mm dia in relation to the centre line of the lathe. Obviously I want my master tool (Tool1) to be at 270mm dia when I home so I tell Mach that the true zero is 270mm dia away from the home point by entering that value in the home off box. If I didnt do that then the machine would have the X zero set where my home switch is.
Home Neg: What is the meaning of this? How the Home position can be negative?
You will want to home negative on the X and Y axis on a mill so that the axis moves in a negative direction to your Home switch, if you dont then you can use the Home Off as above to tell Mach where the real zero is. You may have to mess with this depending on the way you have the motor wired and the reversed setting.
At the bottom left of this window there is “G28 home location coordinates” What is the meaning / purpose of this?
Thank you
Nicolas
G28 location is where you can enter numbers for X Y Z etc and when you command a G28 it will go to them rather than the true machine zero.
Hood
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After your detailed explanation, they all make sense.
Thank you so much
Nicolas
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Good morning Hood
The attached image is from my laptop which is not connected to my CNC machine. I use this laptop in my office to practice / learn mach. I have another older laptop in my workshop which is connected to the CNC.
Can you please let me know what are these red lines on the roadrunner?
If they are the tool cutting path why the were created since no tool is connected?
How can I remove them?
Thank you
Nicolas
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They are showing you the rapid moveS (G0), the blue ones are G1 moves, G2 and G3 moves would show another colour.
You can change the colours if you wish from the Config menu then Toolpath.
Hood
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Hello Hood
In case you did not notice, I started a new thread regarding the arrow keys problem I have "Jogging with Arrows Keys Problem"
Anyway today I was adjusting my Y axis and I typed in the MDI screen G0 Y3.0 and the axis traveled almost the whole length of the axis. Then I typed G0 Y-3.0 and did the same thing in the opposite way.
Any idea why?
Nicolas
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Only thing I can think is your steps per unit are screwed.
Hood
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Obviously I never done this before but this is what I did.
My motors are from Keling, 282oz.in, 8 wires, and connected as Unipolar. The +/- of each coil is connected to the respective +/- on the driver board and the remaining 4 wires are all tie together and are connected to one of the common terminal on the driver board.
My ACME screw is precision made 1/2”-10, ten turns of the screw = 1” of table movement.
The motors are 1.8 degrees per step = 360 degrees divided by 1.8 degrees = 200 steps = 1 turn of motor shaft.
To make the machine move 1”, the screw will have to turn 10 times multiply this by 200 steps we get 2000 steps for 1” movement (Full Step)
So I have set mach for 2000 steps in the motor tuning.
If I want to set mach for Half Step, the new steps in the motor tuning will be 4000.
Perhaps I got it all wrong, is the above correct?
Thank you
Nicolas
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Thats correct, as long as you have the motors direct coupled or 1:1 with a belt.
Hood
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Thats correct, as long as you have the motors direct coupled or 1:1 with a belt.
Hood
I'm happy I got it right
Yes the motors are direct connected to the ACME with a coupling
Thank you for your time
Nicolas
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Regarding the motors calculations which I copy from the web, there is another calculation which I don't understand and did not included above.
After we figure out the steps it says: We can now calculate the resolution level. 1" table movement divided by 2000 steps = 0.00050" of movement per step.
What is the resolution and where can I use it in mach?
Nicolas
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Resolution is simply the minimum movement you can make or put another way the distance it will move with a single pulse. You have determined that when you put the Steps per unit in.
Hood
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Thank you Hood
Nicolas