Machsupport Forum
Third party software and hardware support forums. => Galil => Topic started by: bryan1234 on June 24, 2009, 09:25:56 PM
-
Ahhhh the age old debate. Camsoft or Mach 3. We currently have a 3 axis 6'X12' router using a Galil DMC-1842 card. We are running a private labeled version of Camsoft but want to upgrade our machine.
Should we use the DMC-1842 with Mach 3 or scrap the card and use a different card all together? If so what card??? The next step up from the DMC-1842 is nearly twice the price.Thank you for any input. ;D
-
There really should be no debate. ;) Mach3 and the 1842 will work well.
-
Have you any experience with upgrading the firmware on the 1842?
-
I have not upgraded an 1842, but I have upgraded 1760s, 2172s, 1425s, 1348s, 2180s, etc... They are all very similar. What version does it have now?
-
Believe it or not version 1. It is from 2001 and has never been upgraded.
-
All have version 1. There is a minor level specified by a letter. 1.0q is the latest for the 18x2. There should be no problem updating the firmware on your controller. You do it through SmartTerm. Download the 1.0q firmware from Galil and give it a shot. It will probably take about 5 minutes total. :)
-
No brainer.
Mach3 is SO MUCH better than camsoft.
The only problem we had was why we didn't do it sooner.
Like going from a model T to a Porsche.
-
:) That's what I like to hear!
-
What version of Camsoft were you using? How long ago was that? What do you like about Camsoft vs. Mach? I always hate hearing one is better than another with out hearing the details. What does your set up look like? Are you using Mach in an industrial setting or is it for private use? Were you the original owner of the Camsoft software?
I have heard people say they like one vs the other and the other vs that one but with little information to go with the opinion. The comparison of a Porsche to a Model T is perplexing. As I have heard close to the opposite as well yet little deatails to go with the metaphor.
I'd really like to know direct comparisons, Pros and Cons from a first persons point of view who has spent time with both products.
Thank you for any information.
I think I will have to use Camsoft as my Pacific Scientific PMA24C servos use resolvers and it looks like Mach will not support them. I find the Camsoft software to be a great value. As it seems they offer a lot of support, product details, and extensive manuals. Invaluable if you are in an industrial setting where time lost on a machine could mean thousands and even tens of thousands of dollars in lost time and product.
-
Why would resolvers be a problem? I have Seidel motors that use resolvers. The drive amps accept the resolver input and output quadrature to the Galil. So why is that a Mach incompatibility?
Mach and Galil is really a nice solution.
Steve
-
I was told that the Mach, Galil, Resolver combo would not work. I'm trying to find the source to post more info to help elaborate but can't find it at this moment.
-
You can't hook the resolvers directly to the Galil ICM, if that's what you mean. But that is not a Mach limitation. CamSoft would have the same issue. Most motors with resolvers connect the resolvers to the drive amp. Then the drive amp outputs quadrature encoder signals to the Galil (or other motion controller).
Steve
-
I have PC drives and PC AC brushless servos....didn't think you could hook the reolvers up directly. The PC drives allow for several wiring varations though.
-
I can say that if CamSoft was controlling the Galil, which in turn was controlling the drives and motors and accepting feedback from the drives, that Mach will do the same thing. Resolvers or not, it would make no difference.
Here is the best part... It will cost you nothing to try it. :)
Or do you not have these motors/drives on the machine currently?
I know you have the PMA24C motors. What is the drive amp model? Give me some specifics and I'll see if I can find out if the combo will work for sure. Tell me what is on the machine and/or what you want to put on the machine. Also, if you have some hardware compatibility questions, give Galil a call. Their tech guys are second to none.
Steve
-
Both Galil and Pacific Scientific are both top rate companies. You can call for support and get a tech guy or engineer that will work you through anything. No matter when you bought it!
I'm retrofitting a machine with an older controller.
I have Pacific Scientific PMA24C-10100-00 servos with resolvers of course. Imagine this the servo drives are Pacific Scientific PC800's.....they are the PC833-001-N to be more specific. The Galil is a DMC-1842 with an ICM-2900.
Everything works......well worked. Original computer has a few leaky caps and the touchscreen is just about shot. New PC and a 17" 3M touchscreen added. Plus a new enclosure for all the electronics.
A little confused on how our machine is set up. As on the J2 pin connector for the PC-800 we were hoping to see pins 9,10,11, 12 or 13,14 used. The drives can emulate an encoder signal. These pins would be used to do so.
However the only pins connected are 17,19,24,25,30,31,37,38, & 42. Confused on why the original engineer took this route.
In case you want to know what the pins are the codes are found here on page 2-10
http://www.pacsci.com/support/documents/pc800/ma830.pdf
Thank you for any input.
-
Ahh... Now we are getting somewhere! They are using the drive in position control mode (Open loop to the Galil). Just like a stepper motor. Although I don't know why, as the drive will do analog speed control as well. You can use the amps as they are setup. You should have 4 stepper jumpers enabled on the Galil card. But you are not running in closed loop this way. Not from the Galils PID loop's perspective anyway. The PC drives may do some form of closed loop for you though. I'm just not that familiar with them.
What I would do is disconnect pins 17 & 19, wire pins 8 - 13 to the Galil ICM's main encoder inputs, and then wire the Galil ICM's MOCMD to pin 1 and GND to pin 2. You may have to configure the drive to do speed control instead of position control with the drive's configuration software. You'll get much higher speeds out of your motors that way. 12Mhz counts. vs 3Mhz. counts. Less time cutting air. And you'll get a true servo loop out of it. You could do this with Mach or CamSoft. It makes no difference, as the software is only controlling the Galil. (Unless CamSoft limits the speed)
But those drives, motors, and the Galil should work fine with Mach. Now I've done this a time or two, but I could have Mach driving that machine with speed control in less than an hour.
Were you having problems with CamSoft? I ask because if you were happy with it, the easiest thing to do would be to keep it.
But if you want to give Mach a try, I think you'll ultimately get better performance out of the machine and possibly gain some flexibility if you were looking for any. You can design your own interface screens, write macros that do specific things that are tailored to your production, etc... Even add a tool changer if it doesn't have one. And you have all of the PlugIns too. Joystick control. MPGs... The list goes on. Mach just gives you more options. That's the main reason I think Mach is better. If you decide to try Mach out, make sure you download the Galil's programs with SmartTerm and back them up in case CamSoft put something special in there.
Steve
-
Steve,
I agree with what you have just stated. Thank you for the input. First I think I want to get new controller software into the machine before we mess with the back end of the machine.
Why pins 8-13? I was told by Pacific Scientific to use pins 8,9,10,11,12, & 16. Believe it or not pins 8-10 are wired on the PC800 J2 pin connector BUT the wires dead end next to the ICM2900. They are simply cut. Obviously someone wanted to go another route but chose the simplest for some unknown reason. As they have achieved the lowest possible resolution that the machine is capable of. I'm told that by using 8-11 I can emulate an optical encoder. Providing around 1900ppr of resolution......with the Galil doubling that. Plus more accuracy and speed as well.
We were actually wrong that the machine was running an early version of Camsoft. It was an educated guess based on screen shot comparisons. However since my first post we managed to hack the password and the machine is running a private label or privately designed controller software. It works but is very primitive to say the least.
I have no comparisons between Mach and the newest release from Camsoft. Like the earlier posting from MOTU I don't seem to get any feedback on one vs the other. Like a real world comparison. Just rants on how kick butt one is vs the other. I tend to like less bias in my reviews of products. However when I ask for details it seems like all I hear are crickets. Even if the person supposedly has experience with both. I do know that Camsoft offers support if I run into problems. The old software gives us access to some of the machine perimeters but there are several files in the set up that we can not read or copy.
We do have a wine styled tool changer rack. I like the idea of a rotary rack slaved to the X access and being able to change tools while the X moves but the price vs. complexity just does not pay off. Perhaps if my machine was running 8 hours a day 5 days a week there would be a gain in production but this is not the case. Spindle is a 10HP HSD and the machine has a true 12' X 6' cutting area. The Y axis actually has 8 ' of travel and the X 14'. The Y is able to park the spindle to the left or right side of the spoil board completely. The X has 14' of travel as the wine rack is located at approx 13' and the X axis has a park mode at 14' to allow the gantry to fully be out of the way for clearing the spoilboard or for set up of the next project.
Yes, the current set up is using the resolver as a simple positioning device.
How much more flexible is Mach over Camsoft? Camsoft actually does include a lot more than whats written on their website. They do have files, plug ins and so on available if needed. Do you have first hand experience with Camsoft as well?
Thank you once again! You have been a big help for this specific project. Both adding to our knowledge base and confirming many things we thought to be true.
-
We were using the Pro version ... latest and greatest from Camsoft. Application was 3 axis motion plus tangential on a waterjet system. As far as comparing Camsoft vs Mach3, it's an all the above thing. Speed, smooth motion, MUCH faster screens, BETTER and more customizable screens, fewer bugs, etc. All the above. Mach3 hands down. We let the Galil card run the servo drives on this particular machine as we already had the setup (Lenze drives/motors). All current machines ship with Teknic drives and motors, IMO one of the best motor/drive pkgs. money can buy. American made and costs LESS than what we were importing.
We were looking for a control to replace the $8000 controls were were using on our machines. We did one waterjet machine with Camosft; replaced it with Mach3 and now ship all our machines with Mach3. If the price was 5 times what Artsoft charged I would laugh the whole way to the bank. Yep, it's that good.
What version of Camsoft were you using? How long ago was that? What do you like about Camsoft vs. Mach? I always hate hearing one is better than another with out hearing the details. What does your set up look like? Are you using Mach in an industrial setting or is it for private use? Were you the original owner of the Camsoft software?
I have heard people say they like one vs the other and the other vs that one but with little information to go with the opinion. The comparison of a Porsche to a Model T is perplexing. As I have heard close to the opposite as well yet little deatails to go with the metaphor.
I'd really like to know direct comparisons, Pros and Cons from a first persons point of view who has spent time with both products.
Thank you for any information.
I think I will have to use Camsoft as my Pacific Scientific PMA24C servos use resolvers and it looks like Mach will not support them. I find the Camsoft software to be a great value. As it seems they offer a lot of support, product details, and extensive manuals. Invaluable if you are in an industrial setting where time lost on a machine could mean thousands and even tens of thousands of dollars in lost time and product.
-
Dear MOTU,
I'm really happy to find that you have successfully implemented Mach3 as waterjet machine control!
We have a 4 axis servo motors cutting table setup, ready to be used as a Waterjet: Galil DMC2134 + RIO41700 PLC (controlling the water/ abrasive/ suplementary IOs).
After trying to tune Camsoft ($$$$) to deal with the hardware, we've reached nowhere.
A month ago Kenny Crouch suggested to try Mach3 + Galil plugin + RIO by ModBus support.
Unfortunately TCP Modbus setup strangely doesn't work in the demo version, so we're stuck again.
Could you please help us with sending the screen overlay + brain/ XML file, which you use for the waterjet?
Can we buy it as an addon? I suppose we need some M3/M5/ wiggle piercing / feedhold macros too.
It's strange how hard is to find any information. I really hope you can spread some light on that topic and help us.
Wish you a great weekend!
Velly
-
I recently acquired the CaMaster 6'x12' cnc router. I called CaMaster and they said there is no support available for this particular machine as it is old and since it has been manufactured, the company has changed owners. The tech suggested that I contact the controller manufacturer.
This is what I have:
cnc router - CaMaster 6'x12' (X axis utilizes 2 amplifiers and servos)
computer - Asus p5ql socket 775 Intel dual core
cpu - E5200 2.50 GHZ
os - Windows XP Professional SP3
monitor - 3M touch screen
controller - Galil 1842 REV C S/N AM-3669
interconnect module - ICM 2900 OPTO
amplifiers - Pacific Scientific PC833 brushless servo dive (4)
motors - PMC24 (4)
cnc contol software - Mach3Version 3.042.040
Stumbling upon this forum I now realize the hours I've spent trying to get this machine going utilizing the software were in vein. If anyone could offer help or elaborate on the instructions that were recommended to Bryan, it would be much appreciated as I have nowhere near his knowledge of these machines.
Thanks
-
RE:GALIL DMC-1842 /ICM2900/MACH
During the studying of the galil and mach 3 doc. im having trouble understanding how mach3 communicates to galil. I purchased camsoft package 2 yr ago but have not had the drive to complete ,then licensing fees are judicious. my servo drives are servo dynamics pmw needing 10v analog and spindle yaskawa needs 10 v analog . i am connecting encoders ,drives and spindle to icm2900. im looking for details on how to do this . can you give me direct on where/what to study.
thankyou john
-
If you don't have tons of experience, keep it simple for now. I have to find my manuals but it is relatively easy, Galil has configurable pins, map them in Mach and you're all set. I would recommend step/direction to the drives for the time being and a simple pot to control the spindle. Get the machine running and then tweak.
-
thankyou so much , that is what im doing ..tell me can i hook up the computer/galil/icm2900 and power supply to icm 2900 then monitor analog voltage output befor hooking to the drives and spindle ?
they used to call the machine the beast...so maybe i should change my handle...
-
YOU KNOW READING IS THE KEY TO ALL KNOWLEGE.....ALL MY QUESTIONS .......I HAVE BEGUN STUDYING THE GALIL PLUGIN PDF AND MACH3 INSTALL PDF AND I CAN SEE 99 PCT OF THE ANSWERS ARE THERE .......YOU GUYS AT MACH3 HAVE DONE A FANTASTIC JOB ....NOW JUST TO READ.STUDY AND UNDERSTAND WHICH IS MY CHALLENGE AT 67 YR OLD....... THANKYOU..........
-
I wonder if any one help me about using DMC-1832 Or DMC-1842 with Mach3 and configure MPG unit attached with system and the motors type areservo motors with (A+,A-,B+,B-,C+,C-) encoders will connect to controller.
Note: the old controller DMC-9542 , I am planing to use DMC-1842 because the old one not support the Galil plugin and not compatible with Mach3.
The most important question I want to know , If I will use DMC-1832 in this machine , I will need any special coding ?
OR I will use Galil plugin to configure this system with Mach3 without needing any coding ??