Machsupport Forum
Third party software and hardware support forums. => PoKeys => Topic started by: Hood on June 15, 2009, 01:55:08 PM
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Attached is a word document that details my pendant.
Hood
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Very nice, just recived my pokeys about 30 minutes ago, will be helpfull. One question though, why not put pokeys on the other end of cable so you can use it for other things? surely if you just needed 13 inputs wouldnt it be cheaper to get another parallel port?(unless you already have extra one)? just wondering :)
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I use a SmoothStepper on all my machines so have two full ports of I/O plus the extra 6 inputs that it provides over two parallel ports. I also have a PLC which gives me lots more I/O (36 Inputs, 17 outputs) , much more than I actually need at this point .
The reason I used the PoKeys in the pendant was twofold, firstly that I would have 13 plus wires of low voltage signals on a long cable which would be prone to noise but in reality I could have just used the PLC and 24v, but doing that would have meant I would have to get analogue input module for my PLC and the PoKeys was on hand and thus the sensible option. Also I would have been restricted to using normal cable as the only curly cable I could find had a maximum of 8 cores and I preferred the idea of the curly cable :)
Hood.
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Thanks a lot Hood, this is a really nice setup, will read the .doc file till the end.
Jeff
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Thanks for the compliments, hope it is useful to some :)
Hood
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good point about noise, and yea, since you good on ports and stuff no loss for you :D
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Hey Robin,
When I download the word file, (tried 3 times), Word says it is corrupted and it will not open.
Office word 2003 here....... Any chance you could load up another copy........ I dont know why mine wont open...but there it is.......
scott
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hi hood,
is it possible to become your "brains" you made for the FRO and SRO pots.
thanks
antoine
the netherlands
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Think I have posted them before but here they are again.
Hood
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OK thanks hood,
that saves me typing them. last question: i cannot find on the forum or manual how the pokeys i/o is treated as modio
thanks again,
antoine
the netherlands
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Heres info that should help, if not ask again and I will try and explain better.
Hood
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hi hood,
thanks for your reply, but i think there should be an attachment or so?
thanks
antoine
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There was a manual on the PoKeys site recently written by Spence which detailed how to set things with Mach but it looks like its been pulled, maybe you could ask Boris if he still has it.
Hood
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Hey Hood, others,
The new pokeys installer (and plugin), has a Help file, that goes step by step how to hook into mach3, with the brians stuff also......
scott
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Good to know Scottt :)
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ok thanks,
i found it. i looked into the .pdf manual and there i could not find it.
thanks!
Antoine
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Say, Hood, I tried to enable only your 2FROfeedhold.brn and I get an error in Mach3 that I can only get out of by incessantly clicking OK, or using Task Manager to kill Mach. Next time Mach3 starts it has that brain disabled. What is it I don't understand about this seemingly simple brain, or do I also need the 2SROFRO100.brn enabled for some reason?
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hi,
i had the error aswell. i retyped the brain, all works well.
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hi,
i had the error aswell. i retyped the brain, all works well.
Retyped? How do I retype it? Just go in each thingy and redo it. or what? Sorry, I've never written a brain myself!!
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hi,
yes rewrite it.
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I can't seem to get it. I clicked into everything and saved after, reloaded brains in Mach, still get the error. Why do I need to rewrite a brain for it to work? If, for example, CNC4PC can post up a brain that works, why not these? Can someone post up a working version of Hood's brains or at least explain why it won't work without 'rewriting' it?
Edit: OK, I completely did it from scratch and now it loads without the error. And.......I SORT OF learned how to write brains!! Still a mystery why one can't post up a brain and have it work on another system.
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Only thing I can think of is maybe I wrote these with a different version of the exe than you have installed. I certainly havent had any problems with it as I wrote them at home and then emailed them to the workshop.
Hood
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OH, maybe that's it. My Mach3Lobe.exe is dated 1/24/2008 and is 464 KB in size. I have Mach3 3.043.027 on all three computers I tried it on. Does this mean that when upgrading Mach that brains might stop working?
It worked out better now that I did it from scratch anyway as I learned a bit and am now more confident editing them!!
BTW, thanks for the inspiration with your pendant writeup. I didn't do a pendant, but pretty much the same thing minus the MPG on a small panel on the machine proper. I'm used to running machines from a panel after years of doing so, and am real used to a feed pot, so now I have one and one that works better than the machines I used to run because of the brains!! Now I need Greg to get SS updated to more than 100% feed rate and I'll be good! Back to fine tuning feed/speed by sound/chip flow!!
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Just had someone else PM me with the same problem, I wondered if renaming the Brain would help and it did, so if anyone runs accross this rename making sure there are no spaces in the name.
Hood
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Hi Hood,
Thanks for sharing your experience!
Where does the formula for analogue inputs, you mention in the word doc, come from? What if I wanted a max override of 200%?
Thanks,
Daniel
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Daniel
See here for an explanation.
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,9011.msg58891.html#msg58891
basically 1024/200 will give you the number you want.
Hood
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Ohh... and why do you use Modbus inputs in the SRO brain? Is there a document out there explaining how to create such brains? The video tutorial doesn't seem to be enough.
Daniel
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Art mapped the analogue inputs of the Pokeys to the same ones that the G100 uses if I remember correctly. Should be some info here if you do an advanced search for G100 and user name Art in the Pokeys section.
Hood
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OK, thank you Hood. Found the relevant post. Here is the link to whoever is interested:
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,9163.10.html
Daniel
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Hood,
Why did you use a brain for the start, stop and hold buttons - isn't it possible to use hotkeys and make PoKeys emulate them?
Also, what are the numeric values of the analogue inputs corresponding to the max voltage and min voltage? Just don't yet understand the above formula completely.
Daniel
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I personally dont like HotKeys, couple of reasons, first is you can inadvertantly press a key on the keyboard and something will happen. Second is it means you need to have the function on the screen you are at for a hotkey to work where an OEM Trigger will work on any page.
The analogue inputs are 10 BIT which which is 10000000000 in Binary, the Brain needs decimal for its formula so in decimal that is 1024. So 1024 is full scale so if you divide by the % of feedrate you wish to have as Max it will give you the denominator. Example if I wanted 300% as Max FRO then I would do 1024/300= 3.4133333333333333333333.
a in the formula represents the full 1024 (10bits) so you divide it by 3.413 and you will get full scale at 300. The 0.1 added to the formula is because for some reason the Brain has difficulty going to zero if you wind the pot too fast, with the 0.1 added it always sees a final reading which effectively is 0 as far as FRO is concerned.
Hood
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Thanks for the info Hood! It is much clearer now. I wonder, however, if there is an organized manual where it all is explained. And where can I learn to write my own Brains - I don't like copying without understanding.
Daniel
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There was one on the PoKeys site written by gimble but it seems to have been dropped for some reason. Cant remember exactly what was in it but I am sure it gave info on setting up the pokeys with Mach..
There is a video on making Brains, available from the support tab above. Not sure how much detail it goes into as afraid I have never watched it :(
Hood
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I've already watched the video. It's good to give you an idea about Brains, but not for really making something complex.
Do you have all the Hotkeys removed from all your screens?
You said before that the MPG wasn't working well for you. Has it been fixed yet?
Daniel
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I have always just found messing around with things helps me learn them more than watching videos or reading manuals, probably just the way my own brain works ;D
I have most of the hotkeys removed from my screensets but the Bridgeport still uses a keyboard emulator, it was one of the first machines I did and once I get the Beaver mill finished I may redo the Bridgeport with servos so if I do I will be rewiring things and will probably use a Pokeys for digital I/O
Dont think there has been any change inthe MPG, I just have it connected direct to the SmoothStepper now.
Hood
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Saw this, and thought I would chime in about the current state of the Pokeys.
MPG: Due to the scan time of the hardware of the Pokeys, you can have an MPG, but you cant turn it fast, the pulses will "outrun" the buffer in the hardware before the next scan can come around. What that reveloutionary speed actualy is, you will have to experiment and see at what point Mach stops following and then turn slower.
Brians and Analog: In the new Plugin installer (that includes LCD support), their is a "Help" button on the Plugin Dialog, that goes through all this, but I will summerize here.
When in Brians pick the "Serial Non-Plugin Enabled" (that is the old style original serial modbus).
The modbus registers that the Analog inputs 1-4 are mapped to are: 124, 125, 126, 127, BUT, if you decide to use the Analog out for spindle speed control you loose 124
(or Analog 1) because it the register that becomes the output for the analog out.
so in a nut shell to bring in an Analog Input (lets say your not using the analog out so you have all 4). Your rung in Brians would look like this, first rung is Analog in 1, 2 is the second etc.:
Modbus 124 ->(no op, or formula here) ->DRO
Modbus 125 ->(no op, or formula here) ->DRO
Modbus 126 ->(no op, or formula here) ->DRO
Modbus 127 ->(no op, or formula here) ->DRO
scott
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Hey Scott,
Thank you for clearing it up! So the MPG is never going to be "fast" with the Pokeys... :(
I don't yet have a Pokeys device. I am just considering which route to go - Pokeys or Modbus (or a game controller??? don't really like this idea, since it requires the Keygraber to be launched each time). Are there any other options for making external control?
Daniel
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do the pokeys for all Key stuff,
and use your Para ports, or motion board, or Modbus device for your MPG
scott
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... So the MPG is never going to be "fast" with the Pokeys... :(.....
Super speed MPG update is in work now....
regards
Boris
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Look forward to that Boris, it will make the PoKeys complete for a pendant :)
Hood
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Schedule is beginning of october ::)
regards
Boris
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Ah now that is a bad move, should never utter when it will be ready ;D
Hood
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Nice pendant!
I am just trying to find out what pendant I would like to have, any suggestions for buttons to put on a custom pendant?
For layout I like the MP-01 pendant from Homanndesigns, but I would like to have some features on mine, as it can be seen on the MACH3 screen when we press TAB...
E.g. I'd like to have pushbuttons for continous jog in addition to the MPG... So a kind of mix between the on-screen and the MP-01 would be my first thought...
Or someone with more practical experience would advise to have less buttons?
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To be honest I am not liking the pendant and hardly ever use it now. When I get the Beaver mill completed I will probably just use the PoKeys in the cabinet to give me extra panel buttons.
Hood
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Thanks, your opinion does not upset me at all, tonight I just bout a keypad for start...
http://www.targus.com/Uk/product_details.asp?sku=AKP07EU
I want to customize this with keygrabber and screen modifications or such...
So far what I know is that I should study the customization manual :)
Anyway, what disadvantages I should count on if I use such keypad? (Versus Modbus or Pokeys inputs)
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Big difference is PoKeys is real I/O rather than just Hotkeys. With digital I/0 you dont need to have a button on the screen for the button you are pressing, example if you set up a button via the PoKeys and set it as an OEM trigger and set the trigger to X Axis select you can select that axis even if there is no X axis select button on the screen. With a Hotkey you need to be on a page that has the X Axis select button on it before it will work.
Hood
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So for those buttons I should customize the screensets... Acceptable tradeoff for the moment :) (If I can cope with the config. stuff)
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oh, btw. do you know what is the case with the XBOX controller plugin? does it connect to mach3 as keys available on screen, or no screensets needed for that variant?
thx!
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I have no idea but if it uses HotKeys then you will need the button on screen, if it maps to oem codes then you wont..
Hood
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Hood, I tried your brains as well and they freaked out mach. Weird.
So I copied them from scratch. They mostly work for me. The feature of going into feedhold works fine when you turn it down. But it does not come out of feedhold on turning up. OEMLED 805 never seems to come on during feedhold. Weird. I look in brain viiewer and it never activates. I also use the OEMLED 805 to activate the feedhold pushbutton on the panel as well.
Second thing is the spindle override is not working. The viewer shows Spindle% varying between 0-150% as I turn the knob but it does not effect the spindle.
Any ideas? I am posting this to yahoo as well.
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Try that plugin. It will be officially released in few days.
regards
Boris
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OEM LED 805 has an on/off history of working in recent versions of Mach, depending on the version you have you may wish to try a slightly older one, think I use 027 on the mill and it works fine.
Spindle I dont have a clue why its not working, you said in the viewer you see it working, is that the Brains you are meaning? If yes then does the possibly the spindle speed override DRO is different in the standard turn screen.
Hood
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Try that plugin. It will be officially released in few days.
regards
Boris
Well, it didnt do anything for the MPG, but button presses are now more responsive.
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I am willing to give a different version a try. Know where to find the installer?
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ftp should have them but it seems to be down at the moment..
Hood
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Hi!
Latest plugin release: http://www.poscope.com/product.php?pid=3
Added simple LCD, MPG and keys configuration choose PoPendant profile.
regards
Boris
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Nix that on the button presses. Mach is still slow to respond to them. I have to hold them down for a good quarter second before it will respond.
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any one have a pendent that uses lcd and matrix touch pad?
look to display dro and step jog infro... on pendant for axis?
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Hi!
Please use plugin for Mach there are all setings there.
regards
Boris
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does anyone sell the lcd and matrix key pads that are designed for this interface?
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eloid
Have a look in the PoKeys manual 6.13 and you will find the LCD used is standard HD44780 and these you can almost anywhere.
Same goes for Matrix keyboards, search Ebay for both items.
Cheers Bengt
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For example: www.cnc4pc.com
regards
Boris
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i was review the manual had question ....
the number of lines that support for lcd is it limited 4 ?....or doest it support more lines
ie looking for 5 lines by 20 eg
like to have 4 lines for dro with a status bar ie
spindle on/off, coolent on/ off, ide .....mode ...estoped etc
I was looking at cnc4pc site
at the PoKeys55T do i need the mother to program or will the
PoKeys55T model work with out the motherbrd for programing.
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Hi!
Characters LCDs are standarized to up to 4 lines. You can put more than 1 information in every line.
Motherboard will make your life simpler, but you can leave also without it.
regards
Boris
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ie looking for 5 lines by 20 eg
Look in PoKeys manual pages 17-18, you can use two displays so add one with the extra lines you need.
I hope I have read correctly if not I am sure Boris will let us know what can be done.
Cheers Bengt
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It can not be used 2 displays on the same time, but only one of two. I prefer configuration 2.
As I told already. There can be mora parameters in one line. If you show 2 parameters in every line, 8 parameters could be shown.
regards
Boris
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OK
Can you explain why only one can be used and there is data pins for two displays.
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That is the fact. Technical reasons for that.
regards
Boris
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???
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On the other side, you can use up to 255 PoKeyses on one PC.
regards
Boris
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Dear Boris,
I asked a polight question on how and why it is like that, your answer is no answer.
Even if it is a bit 'technical' I would like to see more detailed answer why it is like that and why the 2nd configuration.
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OK, it wil not help you, but you wanted....
PoKeys55 has limited number of pins. Try to configure all possible peripherals, and you will see the reason.
There are not enough free pins! It could be done in way If 2 LCDs will work, then peripheral X will not work.
But that will add unnecesary complexion and possible unreliability.
Also every microcontroller has limited number of peripherals.
Satisfied?
regards
Boris
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Ok Ok I hear you Boris