Machsupport Forum
General CNC Chat => Show"N"Tell ( Your Machines) => Topic started by: Garyv on June 03, 2009, 09:28:47 PM
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OK back on my build again but actually getting some progress made , I have the Y Z Gantry almost finished just need to attach the router and one bearing support on the bottom of the Z axis backplate,, ANY opinions are welcomed , this is my first metal router , I stripped the wood router and threw it out to make room for the new one.. The X plane is going to be able to cut approx 48 inches..
And I am welcoming ANY opinions before I get this finished, I did hook the servos up to my control and I am really happy with the results I can jog back and Fourth up and down the hit go to zero and it has been coming back to zero without any noticeable backlash using my micrometer..I know that is not under a load but so far so good..
Gary
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That is ONE HEALTHY gantry! :D Looks great!
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Thanks GawnCA,
it is 34 " wide with a nema 34 on the Y and a 23 on the Z from keling,,with 5/8" roton ballscrews and nuts , They have a good deal now for the ballscrews 10 bucks a foot and 23 for the nuts for the 5/8" ballscrews, gonna be getting a few more for the X axis next week...And I am looking for one more piece of HIWIN HGH rail to match the one I got on ebay but have not found them , just new at automation4less surplus, but a new peice of rail cost more than I paid for the 58 1/2" rail and 4 linear bearings I found on ebay, so still gonna give it a few weeks until I have the rest of the table built.. And Aurturo from CNC4PC live just a mile from me so we are going to get together to upgrade my controller here in a few weeks.. Cant wait to have it cutting..The first one I built was out of MDF and acme thread and I could not get the backlash down for nothin and the flex was horrible..
Thanks
Gary
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I can hardly wait to see the finished product and then a video of it in operation. Greg
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Looking good Gary.
Tweakie.
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Looks like you are using servo motors there.
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The Y axis has a nema 34 800 oz-in torque servo and the Z has nema 23 350 oz in torque servo.. And both are run with 2 to 1 reduction pullies so plenty or torque,,High speed when testing was about 170 IPM which is fast enough for me now..
I am still not decided on whether to run a single ballnut under the carrage with a single motor or a single servo with belts to hook up both sides , I am using the real heavy duty hiwin HGH20 mm linear carrages on both sides so I hope I do not have any twist on the gantry..I am still leaning towards using the twin ballscrews going through the bottom tubing of the gantry and connecting to one servo (800 OZ) with a shaft and belts ,but a little added expense for now, just don't want to rush into it either..
Gary
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Do you have any of the table built yet? This thing look awsoem and shiould be able to cut just about anything you want.
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Very nice looking! I'm so glad to see that your using a belt reduction and have done such a nice job of mounting the serovs. I get SO tired of seegin people just stick a motor directly to the screw and try to compensate by using a huge motor.
Depending on your goal for torque/speed you might find that a bit more gearing is needed to get enough torque at the speeds you'll be cutting at. It all depends on what/how you'll be cutting.
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IF I were bright enough to figure out the gearing I would try it out.
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When you get it running you can kind of figure out what works best for you by trial and error. Just pick up a couple more timing pulleys that you can swap out with what you have. If you can find some that will give you something in the range of 3:1 and 4:1 it will give you a good idea what works best for you.
Just a thought...
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Now I need to know where to find the gears and a close up of how the mountings are made. :D
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GAW , there are a lot of places on e-bay but I get mine local at a bearing place in Ft. Pierce they have a lot of stuff at fairly good prices and I will attach a drawing but it will need to be opened with BobCad V23 to view it..I changed it to a DXF file and also added the MACH3 file if you want to just dry run it to see how it is..
I don't know if I can post it as a reg picture but will try..Also I was holding on to the gantry plates while running a back and fourth and up and down simple program and held on to the axis and could not stop it or barley even slow it down so there is plenty of torque , just would like a little more speed but I doubt I will be cutting anything over 175 IPM with it anyway...
here are some files , and any files you want or need just ask I have all of them in my bobcad files in case i need to re-make them ,,, I can also send them in Mach3 files and all are cut with a .250 2 flute carbide bit fairly slow because of slop in my bridgemill from shoptask..
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Cool, I'll have to take a look. I've got a machine that came with 2 motors for the "X" axis and I'd like to make it one motor and belt drive the 2 drive points.
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Here are few better pictures of the Y and Z mounts also I mounted the router , got it on sale at sears variable speed ,led lights iluminate the part and soft start for $90 bucks..Hope it cuts OK but at least it has the same 3.5 diameter as most routers so I can change it out if need be..
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looks really great, congrats. there are so many talented people on this site, great inspiration!
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Thanks for the inspiration guys, really been wanting to do this build for a few years now , but lost my job a while back is giving me more time to work on it..I am wanting to get this done so I can try and make some extra cash for bills and all, I already do some custom work for a friend of mine in the marine industry he is a big boat captain and he throws work my way as often as he can and will be able to send more my way when I get this router finished, I built a custom tackle cabinet for a 45 Hatteras last month but had to do it mostly on a table saw and if I get the router done it will cut my time done by hours..He already wants 2 more done when they get back from the Bahamas also a few control panels as well..
I Started the router table base today went and got the metal this afternoon and tried some welding in the dark so I gave it up for the night already 9 pm..getting too dark to see my beads so I screwed up a few and will have to do some grinding in the morning..Problem is I don't feel like working until after 4 or 5 pm , got to get out of that habit and just put up with the rain and heat and get it finished.. I will try to post pictures if I get anything done tomorrow..
Thanks for the input on the build guys,
Gary
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OK taking a break at 2 its gettin hot out there welding in the sun..Here are a few pictures from building the table. going to finish the welds and put some legs on the table later...crossbraces are 1 in square tubing set 1 at the bottom so I can use a 3/4" spoilboard and swap out when needed.. Going together quicker than I thought though..
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Looks great and now I'm getting inspired to build me a foam cutter using square tubing rather than aluminum. I've got to get some of the HONEY-DO listr out of the way first.
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GAW , really the steel tubing is WAY cheaper than aluminum, easier to weld so you don't have to bolt everything , I picked up a 24 ft length of 2x2 and a 24ft piece of 1 x 1" at the steel supply and was less than 70 bucks total, that included 6 bucks for an extra cut to get it into my truck in 3 pieces.I am using the 14 gauge tubing so it is tough but gets a little heavy after a while..
Gary
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Yeah Gary, I've got a place close by that sells that kind of stock for fence building. They have good prices as well. I think they have everything from 1/2" up 4"
Greg
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OK a few more things done and gettin closer to assembly, still need to order hi-win rail , keep forgetting to do that during the day and still dread 200 for 1 rail but still cant find one cheaper :( Don't talk too bad about my welding a lot of bad angles and it is only spot welded mostly now I am going to grind and finish the welds then paint it up..The bottom of the table is at 25 1/2" leg length so I can fit under it and get material in and out without help. You might have noticed in one of the pics that's me in the wheelchair , and that's one of the reasons the build is going so slow ,PLUS it has been in the low 90s this week now that the rain stopped....
I hope the gussets will be strong enough and also I might add a few more of the 1 by tubing's for the spoilboard support these are 13 5/8 OC now so I might just add a few gussets just to stiffing it up a bit but the table is gettin heavy as it is now for me to heave around as it is ..I might add a set of those wheels with the leaver that drops them totally up or down so if I need to move it it would be a whole lot easier for me.. The gantry weight probably 75 pounds now ..So going to need to gear down he servos but will do that when I get to that point..
OK enough jabbering about it just want to keep records of this build for myself as well..
Gary
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Looks good Gary, thanks for the pics. I would definitely get a good set of poly casters. I thought about getting some locking pads for mine too, but just having it on casters alone has not presented a problem or need for them, yet. I have almost everything in my shop on casters, and it sure does make shop tasks a whole lot easier! Best of luck with it, keep us updated and fed with pics.
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Sam thanks for the info also do you think it would need more 1 inch crossbracing or 45 degree gussets on the 1 " crossbracing for strength?. I have about 12 feet left but dont want too much overkill ...
Thanks
Gary
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There's no such thing as overkill as far as I'm concerned. What you've got there already should support a spoil board, and project weight, I would think.
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Here is the table gettin closer,,needs another can of paint now..
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Hey Gary, did you end up ordering from automation4less.com? I was going to order rails from their sister site automationoverstock.com today, but I'm getting a warning of: "Reported Attack Site" from my browser. Looking for that reputable dealer, like I'm sure you are too.
Anybody else like to pipe in?
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I got a note from them...
"You are, no doubt, a person who (like me) uses Firefox browser. This is an old problem, but it is exacerbated with the newest version of Firefox and a rather "unique" bedfellow they have developed in Google.
Our host company is working to rectify the problem (which has just reared its head today), but essentially it revolves around "shared" hosting accounts. Our websites are on the same servers as some other companies. The secure server is an entirely different entity, but if Google (they're the ones that spider the websites/servers) perceives anything at all in a page or scripting of ANYONE'S website on a shared server, they brand everyone as an "attack site." What is really stupid about this is that if you go to our site using Microsoft Internet Explorer, there's no problem whatsoever. It's kind of like having a criminal living on your street and thus the entire neighborhood is branded as a criminal. Only in this case, if I'm to believe our host, the "crime" is pretty benign. Something to do with one of their other customers having some sort of live customer chat/support. I'm sure the host will have no choice other than to shut down that website if not the application so the rest of us can get back to business as usual. But before that can happen, the host must prove to Google that it's "clean." In the meantime, the 85+ % of people out there using Microsoft Internet Explorer have no problems at all.
Hopefully it will all be resolved in a day or so...that's what our host says. In the meantime, you can call and give the CC information if you wish, or just use a browser other than Firefox.
Sorry for the inconvenience."
I am using Firefox, so maybe he's right...
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Thanks Barry,
I ordered the rail from them last night actually,,I had not noticed any security problems and I have emailed them a few times over the past 3 or 4 months about the rail, since the rail that I need is not an older discontinued model I had to order from the main site automation4less not the overstock site which sells the older but new equipment.
I have always received email from the same manager from either site and received a confirmation email last night on the order..And like you said they do have a phone # to call as well which I have used in the past..
The internet is getting real bad about security anymore thanks for the information.Also the overstock section sells a lot on eBay as well that is where I found them in the past looking for the newer rail I need..
Gary
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OK Back again , had a virus on the computer and had to re-format and get things put back on the computer, luckily I had a back-up of most of my stuff,,
I got the rail in from automation 4 less today and set the gantry on the table with clamps , I need to get some very short metric screw tomorrow but the gantry moves really smooth..
I didn't get an actual measurement but it seems like it takes less than 2 or 3 pounds to get the gantry moving and where the table is setting with a few degree down slope in the driveway the gantry will almost start moving on its own, I m real happy so far with the results , I need to get the rails lined up and start bolting it down then measrue for the ballscrews, I am going to go ahead and put 2 ballscrews through the bottom tubing on both sides of the gantry to keep it lined up without any chance of racking..
Here are the pictures from today's progress..
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Looking good. I bet you cant wait to get it all hooked up.
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Where are you connecting your x axis ballscrew? Did you machine all your ballscrew mounts? I need to do that myself and I'm a bit lost on how to do it;)
Barry
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Thanks Guys,
Barry I am going to make the mounts to fit inside of the bottom tubing right above the bearings, The stock for the pulleys and end brackets are cut out of 3/8 extruded aluminum channel and will machine out a bearing mount and a through hole for the pulley .. I would post a picture BUT when I had the computer crash over the weekend I lost my CAD drawing so I have to do them again..
I am going to make all of the mountings before ordering the ballscrews so I have an exact measurement,, Roton has been pretty close with their cuts...
Gary
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Had a real pain trying to get my computer up and running after that re-format last weekend, took all morning to try and get the drivers for smoothestepper to re-load had to shut down my virus program which I added after this crash then had to end up after 100 tries of locating the driver to install and extract files to a separate disk THEN locate the files for the smoothstepper..
What a pain in the butt that was....
I hate computer problems..
I would like to eventually get a separate stand alone computer just for the CNC setup to leave in the garage ,right now I use my laptop for everything..I am going to start putting a few bucks aside until I can get just a basic computer , load XP back on it and use it just for the garage, Also I am looking into a touch screen monitor add on for a separate monitor..
Well I am going to try and get the X axis mounts made today , cooled down in the garage this morning only about 85 with 80% humidity this morning .....
Sorry about the long post about nothing but still wound up about getting the drivers loaded...
Gary
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OK got a few parts made,, I found this idea on either here or a different web site but will work OK in my situation..
I am going to slide these in the bottom tubes to run the ballscrews in. I will put in some set screws both on the bracket and then into the aluminum plate through the tubing with 1/4 20 bolts..And also they are long enough that I can put 2 ballnuts in if later down the road I need to take out backlash I can adjust the 2 ballnuts ..
Sorry about the bad pictures ,,didnt realise they where that fuzzy
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OK back to my build again after waiting for parts, I have the balscrews mounted the x axis servo will be attached when i get the belts in.
I ordered 2 different sizes so I can go with or without a idler pully to give more traction to the belt if I need it..
Here are the pics.
Gary
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Hi look forward to see it running on video.
Nice work and I always like the pics you post.
Jeff
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Thanks for the complement Jeff glad you like it,,
I hope it cuts as good as it is going together and holding tolerances..So far the ballscrews from roton I am real happy with the price and the fit..I can move each axis by hand with close to zero backlash but that does not mean that it will hold up under load..
Gary
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Well getting closer to a cut FINALLY ,, got the belts in wired up waiting on limit switches to install. But cut a lot of air and started getting the servos calibrated using the motor setup on the program run page ,, nice and smooth until i get over 85 to 100 IPM then the 60 inch long ballscrews want to start wobbling a bit but I doubt I do any cutting at over 100 IPM anyway ,, Next time I will use belts or gears for the long axis..Live and learn ..
Hope to actually get a spoil board in and a cut out next week...
Will try to post pictures or video too.
Gary
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OK Back after a few jobs held me up for a few months on the router build..
I cut out my first part today for my boat , something I through together with Bobcad (now has V carve in bob art) real quick to check the machine..
It looks milky because I just hit it with a few coats of Lacquer and getting dark early with the time change..
Everything cut nice and since I have a smoothstepper I can't use back lash comp that I thought I would need but could not even find a mark after a tool change that was of so
it looks to be dead on cutting MDF..
Next I want to use real wood and hang a few signs off the side of the boat when we go out to the cove where hundreds of boaters hang out and might be able to custom
cut and make a few bucks..
Here's the pic.I will ad a better one after the sun is out and the lacquer dries...
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excellent success Gary. By all means show off your work and make some money back on your investment!
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excellent success Gary. By all means show off your work and make some money back on your investment!
I agree!!
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Thanks Guys, and glad to be back with time to post here again..
Gary
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The project looks great however the extra weight might compromise the function. I chose the aluminum for the lighter weight. It cost more but it takes less power to move. I would like to see the outcome as I am designing a larger unit and steel might be a factor for strength.
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Well I didnt get pictures because of a tight deadline but I made a radar panel for a 65 Hatteras and a few covers nothing fancy BUT it cuts great and to my surprise it came out square..
I usually get the jobs at 5 in the afternoon then have to have them out before 8 am to get them to the boats in Ft Lauderdale.
I try to get dimensions a few days in advance but we had a hurry up job as usual that needed to be out ASAP..
I did make a sign today for a friend of a neighbor that just says BACK NINE for his patio and delivered it 30 minutes ago, Again no pics ...I need to think about getting pics of some work to at least show the boat owners that we work for some things that we can do but never remember..
And gfroe123, How are you going to drive your router? I dont think steel or aluminum will be that much different but the steel will be heavier and less likley to viberate doe to the weight , I am driving mine up to 110 IPM when cutting plastics with not vibrations..
Gary
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i'm so jealous you are cutting already! Good that you are making $$ on your baby though.
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Well back after a few months of other work and being layed up in bed for 3 weeks , better now though.
Here is one of the plates I made for my nephew last night for his bass boat , I didnt have a engraving bit on hand
the last one bit the dust with a bad mistake hitting a hold down screw..
I used a 90 degree corner bit thats why the lines are so wide and I need to clean out some left over sprue from the cuts...
I have an Onsrud 60 degree engraving bit coming in on tuesday (I hope ) so I can finish this job I am making another dash
plate for gauges and switches with the same bass in the middle .It is 23.5 x 4 but this small plate is 9 x 5 so the bass is only 4 inches tall..
Also after posting and looking at the picture close up , It cleaned up a lot after this picture was taken , I should take it down and put up a cleaner picture (YUCK)