Machsupport Forum
Third party software and hardware support forums. => Newfangled Solutions Mach3 Wizards => Topic started by: LarryMiranda on August 14, 2006, 01:50:20 PM
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I tried using the cut gear wizard and found that the program is set to cut the entire depth first and then rotate the table. This works fine for using involute cutters whereas the cutter cuts the entire gear tooth profile.
I use a hob to cut gears and therefore need the cutter to cut to a certain depth that I determine, then rotate the table and repeat until the entire circumference is cut to that depth and then to start over and cut to an additional depth and go completely around again and repeat this process untill the entire gear is cut to its final depth. This method is required because the Hob modifies the tooth profile of the 2 adjacent gear teeth which thereby creates the involute portion of those teeth.
I hope I explained it properly and not just confused the question.
Is there already the ability to do this with the present wizard? If not, can it be modified to achieve this?
Larry Miranda
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Could you please give me an example of the Gcode that you would use to do that?
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Hi Brian
Thanks for taking an interest in my question. Here is my example of G-code and some explanations.
=============================================================
Cutter located in the front and to the left of the blank that will be cut into a gear.
The finished gear will be 12 teeth and the total depth of cut will be 0.090 deep.
The width of the gear will be 0.300
The above criteria has been chosen for this example and does not reflect real world
data for an actual functional gear.
The z-axis will not move during the cutting and is positioned in the center of the blank.
The X-axis is used to cut the width of the gear.
The Y-axis is used to cut the depth of the tooth (the valley between 2 teeth).
The A-axis is used to rotate the blank (in this example 30 degrees between teeth)
GO1 Y0.0450 F2.0
G01 X0.6000 F5.0
G00 X0.0000
G00 A30.00
G01 X0.6000 F5.0
G00 X0.0000
G00 A60.00
G01 X0.6000 F5.0
G00 X0.0000
G00 A90.00
G01 X0.6000 F5.0
G00 X0.0000
G00 A120.00
G01 X0.6000 F5.0
G00 X0.0000
G00 A150.00
G01 X0.6000 F5.0
G00 X0.0000
G00 A180.00
G01 X0.6000 F5.0
G00 X0.0000
G00 A210.00
G01 X0.6000 F5.0
G00 X0.0000
G00 A240.00
G01 X0.6000 F5.0
G00 X0.0000
G00 A270.00
G01 X0.6000 F5.0
G00 X0.0000
G00 A300.00
G01 X0.6000 F5.0
G00 X0.0000
G00 A330.00
G01 X0.6000 F5.0
G00 X0.0000
(RETURN TO 0 DEGREES AND INCREASE DEPTH OF CUT)
G00 A0.00
GO1 Y0.0900 F2.0
G01 X0.6000 F5.0
G00 X0.0000
G00 A30.00
G01 X0.6000 F5.0
G00 X0.0000
G00 A60.00
G01 X0.6000 F5.0
G00 X0.0000
G00 A90.00
G01 X0.6000 F5.0
G00 X0.0000
G00 A120.00
G01 X0.6000 F5.0
G00 X0.0000
G00 A150.00
G01 X0.6000 F5.0
G00 X0.0000
G00 A180.00
G01 X0.6000 F5.0
G00 X0.0000
G00 A210.00
G01 X0.6000 F5.0
G00 X0.0000
G00 A240.00
G01 X0.6000 F5.0
G00 X0.0000
G00 A270.00
G01 X0.6000 F5.0
G00 X0.0000
G00 A300.00
G01 X0.6000 F5.0
G00 X0.0000
G00 A330.00
G01 X0.6000 F5.0
G00 X0.0000
G00 Y0.00 A0.00
M30
In this example I used 2 passes to cut the entire depth of the valley
between the gear teeth. In the real world many more passes would be required
as my Taig would not be able to cut 0.045 each pass and the quality of the cut
and the shape of the teeth would be greatly improved with smaller depths per pass.
===================================================
Thanks
Larry
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Thank you, I will look into it :)
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It is been a week with no feedback. I have a project I would like to get to using the wizzard.
Are we looking at days, weeks, months, maybe never? Please advise....
Larry
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Sorry I think I lost the list that I had this on.. It is back on the list and will get fixed! If you everneed something and I have not done it please feel free to ask me a few times. I work on so many things that some times the little ones get lost :(
Thank you
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Which cut gear wizard?
The one with mach3 or the one in the Newfangled suite ?
The one in the Newfangled suite is crap.
The cutter diameter is missing and so it can't post code.
Did I mention it was crap ?
:D
John S.
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John I will look into this asap :) I will have the code open to see if it is posable to add the gear hob stuff...
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John you need to set the tool Dia in the Tool set up screen :)
if you do that I think you will be all set ...
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After I looked into the the code... I can tell you that it will take a rewrite of the wizard :( I can't take the time at this point in time...
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That is very dissapointing. Seems not much thought went into the wizard before it was written.
I won't buy involute cutters, therefore it makes that wizard useless to me.
Larry
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I will see if I have time to program it at some point.. I just don't have the time to give you at the moment :( On the other hand there are more people (in mach) that will cut there gears with an involute cutter... You are the first one that I have seen that wanted to use a gear hob. if there are others that are going to use it, I can take more time to work on it....
Thanks
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That method described by Larry isn't hobbing.
Mach3, with or without a wizard, can't hob at the moment as true hobbing requires a spindle encoder feedback, similar to rigid tapping.
The wizard will work for involute cutters but not for special applications like Larry wants.
Saying that not much thought went into the wizard isn't fair when no one came forward and suggested different ways of doing this.
What you require for doing your program can easily be done in excel or any similar spread sheet.
Another way is to read the book and learn to use subroutines to carry out much of the duplicated work required by this stacked cutter method of cutting, not hobbing.
John S.
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John, first of all you are wrong about the hob. There are different kinds of Hobs.
Secondly, I purchased the license for the Newfangled wizards to make life easy. I already had the right to read books and write my own G-code. I didn't need to purchase a license to do that. And thirdly, I already know how to write G-code without using any spread sheets and reading any more books. I don't need any suggestions to do that. This thread is about Newfangled wizards, what they can and can't do, so go find some other parade to piss on. Better yet, go get a book and read about the different kind of hobs.
Larry
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Show me a commercial hob that's not helical.
Not one of Jose Rodriguez's mackle ups.
And I'm not pissing on anyone's parade, when the new fangled wizards were being written I went to a lot of trouble testing them and making suggestions based on real world problems with real world machines.
Where were you ?
Sure this thread is about new fangled Wizards and making life easy.
That easy one is called CUT GEAR, I can't see one called HOB GEAR
I have plenty of books about hobbing and gears, probably nearly a 100 at the last count.
I spent the last 4 days last weekend at the Bristol show in the company of Ivan Law who wrote Gears and gearcutting, he's an old friend.
Then take a look at this text file and the links to the pictures and then tell me if I don't know about hobs.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/stevenson.engineers/lsteve/hidden/Gearhobbing.txt
Were you on our side in the last war ?
John S.
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John, that's a lot of bull *********X. Where in any of my posts did I say I was using a commercial hob and where did I say that I was using a helical hob. You jumped into this thread and made a bunch of half-baked assumptions which are wrong. What does your testing wizards have to do with me. I purchased Mach3 with my money and I purchased the wizards with my money and I have a right to be happy or dissapointed with what I paid for at my discretion, after all I was not able to test the wizards before I bought it.
I doubt that 100 books were ever written on the subject of hobbing, which tells me you like to make up stories. None of this has anything to do with you, and you should butt the hell out. Go back to drinking your tainted Kool Aid and communicating with the Mother-Ship.
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You didn't say you were using a commercial hob or a helical hob so how are people to know you are using something special and expect a standard wizard to cope with your unique requirements ?
In fact, technically, you are not using a hob
NOWHERE does it say HOB GEAR, you are expecting too much and coming over too strong on a forum where most people are polite and try to help.
Just because Brian wasn't able to rewrite the wizard just for your application overnight you infer you have been short changed.
As regards books I said hobbing and GEARS and I can assure you there are 1,000's of them out there.
There has been over 100 hobbing machine models made alone in the last 100 years so that's a 100 manuals on hobbing for a start.
Type in GEARS on abebooks.com and see how many hits you get.
Read that text file again and see where I'm coming from, I have built hobbers, I have made hobs and involute cutters. I do know a little of what I am talking about.
What you want is unique, it's technically not a hob but a circular rack and works totally alien to normal gear cutting but it does work.
Inside Mach 3 there is a normal cut gear wizard that's not part of the New Fangled Suite, also by Brian.
This isn't a protected wizard and you can open it and modify it in screen designer.
Why not open this up and rewrite it to suit your application and then Brain doesn't have to make porridge just for one ?
John S.
P.S. If you are taking this information on hobbing from the Rodriguez's video, be careful there are many glaring mistakes on that making the end result technically and mathematically incorrect.
Hint for one of them, check his figures all the way through for Pi, not the ones we use, from the mother ship perhaps ?
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This will be my last response:
I never came on strong until you jumped in and infuriated the situation with YOUR ignoramous comments and "smarter than thou" attitude. You came on in an offensive way. Your first comment was:
"The one in the Newfangled suite is crap."
"The cutter diameter is missing and so it can't post code."
"Did I mention it was crap ?"
So make no mistake, you started this crap.
Response to your previous posts:
It dosn't say gear hob, but it dosn't say involute cutter either.
You seem to be obsessed with Jose Rodrigues. I never mentionsd his name until now but you have already attacked him 3 times. At least he teaches people to do things for themselves, whereas you just hang on the forums criticizing and weasel-wording around the truth. Anyone who graduated high school knows Pi, and if not, then he knows how to get it.
I never said that I was short-changed by Brian -- YOU said that. I said that I was dissappointed with that particular wizard.
I never demanded that Brian rewrite the wizard overnight or even rewrite it at all. That is just more of YOU going off half-cocked.
You originally said that you have more than 100 hobbing books, Now you are construing that to include hobbing machine manuals. I would not consider machine manuals to be books that teach you how to build and use hobs, which is the context that YOUR original statement was made.
If you were as intelligent as you think you are, you would be teaching forum members how to do things and then everyone would know how smart you are without your telling them. Instead, you hang around the forum and attack members of the forum and then bloviate about how much you know.
You are stealing away from the value of this forum from people who want to exchange ideas and learn about Mach3. This particular thread is for Newfangled wizard problems and communicating with Brian. Why do you think it is in your place to jump in and attack customers of Brian and/or moderate this thread in any way? That was a question that you should ask yourself and not answer to me because I really am not interested in anything you have to say.
John, I will not answer any more of your posts, because you talk like a fool and offer nothing of value.
In closing, I am dissapointed that Art and/or Brian have allowed the activity in this particular thread to continue. It truly is a distraction to the real value of this forum and if allowed to continue, will eventrully destroy the forum -- and that would be a real loss to the CNC community.
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This will be my last response:
I never came on strong until you jumped in and infuriated the situation with YOUR ignoramous comments and "smarter than thou" attitude. You came on in an offensive way. Your first comment was:
"The one in the Newfangled suite is crap."
"The cutter diameter is missing and so it can't post code."
"Did I mention it was crap ?"
So make no mistake, you started this crap.
The remark was made directly to Brian and what you don't realise is that every email or post between Brain and myself mentions that something is crap, - it's a personal joke but you weren't to know.
Read Brain reply to my CNC conversion under the Show and Tell forum.
Response to your previous posts:
It dosn't say gear hob, but it dosn't say involute cutter either.
You seem to be obsessed with Jose Rodrigues. I never mentionsd his name until now but you have already attacked him 3 times. At least he teaches people to do things for themselves, whereas you just hang on the forums criticizing and weasel-wording around the truth. Anyone who graduated high school knows Pi, and if not, then he knows how to get it.
So I hit the nail on the head ? I'm not obsessed with him and contrary to what you think he does teach people but teaches them wrong and there is no excuse for this when he's taking money.
I presume you haven't spotted his big mistake in the hobbing process at the end ?
Anyone following his methods will finish up with a geometrically incorrect gear.
I never said that I was short-changed by Brian -- YOU said that. I said that I was dissappointed with that particular wizard.
I never demanded that Brian rewrite the wizard overnight or even rewrite it at all. That is just more of YOU going off half-cocked.
First you wrote:-
It is been a week with no feedback. I have a project I would like to get to using the wizzard.
Are we looking at days, weeks, months, maybe never? Please advise....
then:-
That is very dissapointing. Seems not much thought went into the wizard before it was written.
I won't buy involute cutters, therefore it makes that wizard useless to me.
Maybe never is a little strong don't you think? then to tell someone you don't buy involute cutters when the wizard IS for involute cutters is a slap.
You originally said that you have more than 100 hobbing books, Now you are construing that to include hobbing machine manuals. I would not consider machine manuals to be books that teach you how to build and use hobs, which is the context that YOUR original statement was made.
No read what I wrote, not read what you want to read.
I'll type it slowly as you obviously have trouble reading it
I have plenty of books about hobbing AND gears
If you were as intelligent as you think you are, you would be teaching forum members how to do things and then everyone would know how smart you are without your telling them. Instead, you hang around the forum and attack members of the forum and then bloviate about how much you know.
Been there, done that. That text file was also sent to 3 forums that I use.
The circuit diagram for the black box has also been made public.
I have a web site showing how to make involute cutters that has been up for over 5 years.
If you study the text and pictures you can see how to cut spur, helical and worm gears clearly and you don't have to buy a poor quality CD to see this.
You are stealing away from the value of this forum from people who want to exchange ideas and learn about Mach3. This particular thread is for Newfangled wizard problems and communicating with Brian. Why do you think it is in your place to jump in and attack customers of Brian and/or moderate this thread in any way? That was a question that you should ask yourself and not answer to me because I really am not interested in anything you have to say.
John, I will not answer any more of your posts, because you talk like a fool and offer nothing of value.
Instead of saying I offer nothing of value why don't you address the problem you have, work it our and share it with us.
That's what I would do.
The wizard inside Mach3 isn't protected, why not alter that to suit?
In closing, I am dissapointed that Art and/or Brian have allowed the activity in this particular thread to continue. It truly is a distraction to the real value of this forum and if allowed to continue, will eventrully destroy the forum -- and that would be a real loss to the CNC community.
Perhaps you have answered your own question