Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: jam1962 on May 15, 2009, 11:54:36 PM
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I should have been mowing the grass or putting the new head gaskets on my girlfriends car but I got my CNC machine running today and never left it. Ive held off on buying software till now so I need your help. I will be getting the MACH3 license. Is LCAM anything I will actually use, the version with Mach trial doesn't seem to do much. What CAD/CAM program would be good. DO NOT say Autocad that ain't never going to happen. I am not Bill Gates. I have seen some use Sheetcam, it runs about 300 dollars which would be about the top of my budget. I will eventually add a 4th axis so I need it to accommodate that, I want to do my own drawings and run them on my machine. Load others files and work with them. Could you send me in the right direction. jay
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Hi Jay,
Yeah CNC is really a very addicting well disguised drug, but don't let that get out or we'll all end up doing the stuff we're suppose to be doing instead of CNCing. :-)
For starters you may consider just using the wizards in Mach3 mill. Better yet, pay the $50 for the Newfangled Solutions wizards license and you will be able to do most machining jobs without the need for CAD/CAM software at all. This conversational programing is a good way to go I think.
In case you haven't seen it already, that license is purchased by clicking the buy now buttons next to "Mach3 addons for Mill" on this page http://www.machsupport.com/purchase.php
Now sneak back to the shop and try those wizards before your girl friend spots you. Heh Heh Heh
Kerry
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as jewellers the majority of people i know buy mills to give us back time.. its supposed to be a one button solution to our problems.. load model, hit cycle start and have a beer on the bench.. instead we sit watching the damn thing...
I recently did an install.. went clockwork.. mill up, trammed, dialed in, cutting test parts.. customer (lovely young lady) sat watching the mill do its thing.. nonstop for hours... mwahahahahhaahha another addict!!
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Hi Jay,
If the top of your budget is about $300, I would think you'd be very happy with Cut2d from Vectric. It is hands down the easiest one to learn and I belive is still $150 and offers a free trial as well.
While LCam is cheaper, I have to say that in my honest opinion, if you do not want a steep learning curve, LCam is NOT for you. You will have a million questions (I think) and spend less time actually making anything as there are a lot of quirks in that program.
There are other free alternatives like CamBam, which can be good but also have learning curves and that is why I suggest Cut2D. It will not do 4th axis stuff but I don't know of any software for $300 that will do that.
There is a free program called "Wrapper" which is pretty slick:
http://www.vectric.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2920
And here's a helpful tutorial to fake a 4th axis from Nick Carter over at Carter Tool:
http://www.cartertools.com/fake4th.html
Hope that helps a bit,
Dave
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Hi Jay,
Iam a bit of a newb with CNC.
I tried several CAM programs and even followed some of the instructions.I could never get it.
Then as I was looking,I was refered to Cut2d. I downloaded the trial version and watched the video.
It is because of the 10 minute video that I succeeded with cut2d and bought the program without a second thought. The video will run you through the process and it really is easy when you see it work.
For my CAD program,I have just downloaded a free CAD program CADstd which is all I really need until I learn more.
I hope this helps.
Now go make the lawn mower CNC to cut the grass.
Regards Jason
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Thank you guys I appreciate it. I have the Cut2D trial on my PC allready but haven't done anything with it so I give it a look see. A 4th axis is in the future I need to get the three I already have down. I cant find a 14mm 1/2' drive socket and its going to rain, gee what am I gone to do today? jay
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I should have been mowing the grass or putting the new head gaskets on my girlfriends car but I got my CNC machine running today and never left it. Ive held off on buying software till now so I need your help. I will be getting the MACH3 license. Is LCAM anything I will actually use, the version with Mach trial doesn't seem to do much. What CAD/CAM program would be good. DO NOT say Autocad that ain't never going to happen. I am not Bill Gates. I have seen some use Sheetcam, it runs about 300 dollars which would be about the top of my budget. I will eventually add a 4th axis so I need it to accommodate that, I want to do my own drawings and run them on my machine. Load others files and work with them. Could you send me in the right direction. jay
I don't know how you got $300 for SheetCAM. It's 170GBP = US$254, *INCLUDING* a Mach3 license. It's a great piece of software, support is second to none, and it's constantly being improved. SheetCAM TNG is REALLY nice, and includes a very handy simulation facility. Not quite as much "eye candy" as Cut2D, but a LOT more functionality and flexibility for about the same money. SheetCAM is made for milling, Cut2D is made more for routing and engraving.
Regards,
Ray L.
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Hi Ray, When I went to the Sheetcam websit the price was listed in Lear or something, paypal converted it to a bit over 300 dollars. Never seen a thing about including a Mach liicense. I will look again, I must of missed something. jay
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Hi Ray, When I went to the Sheetcam websit the price was listed in Lear or something, paypal converted it to a bit over 300 dollars. Never seen a thing about including a Mach liicense. I will look again, I must of missed something. jay
The pricing is in UK pounds, since SheetCAM is a UK company.
Regards,
Ray L.
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I was just checking it out Ray, 195 pounds is 303 dollars. With the mach license its a good deal. I will give the tial a run through for a day or so. Thanks. jay
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JAY,
I don't think there is a single low priced program on the market that does it all.
What CNC you do today may change in the future. None of them are perfect, some are better than others.
You can spend a lot to time trying software and not having fun. So maybe just use a free CAD and software program, learn from that experience, and then you will be able to say something is right for you and be able to evaluate shortcomings when you test a program.
So as the car salesman analogy goes " for every seat there is an ask but he won't know he dosn't like the car until he drives it for a while".
RICH
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I have both Sheetcam and Cut2d
My recommendation between the two would be Cut2D. Very easy to use intuitive interface. Just as good on a milling machine as a router.
Sheetcam has some extras if you are using a plasma cutter. But apart from that Cut2D wins hands down IMHO.
Nothing wrong with Sheetcam, good program, but since having the Vectric product I have never used Sheetcam since. I use a mill, a router and an engraver.
Greg
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Thanks Greg, I have been using both programs trial versions, knowing that they are both limited by being a trial, the cut2d seems to be much eaise and simpler to use and grasp. Not that Sheetcam is over my head but I do seem to like the Cut2D a bit better. I will make a decision here in a day or so and get something. Jay
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Hi.
I've been using ViaCAD 2D/3D and CamBam together for the last year or so and it's a marriage made in heaven, as far as I'm concerned. ViaCAD is $99 and CamBam is $149, so they're well within your price range, and I think wonderful value for money. ViaCAD does excellent DXF and STL file exports (amongst many others) to CamBam and can switch instantly to a 2D only mode, which is absolutely ideal for drawing the profiles you're going to need for most of your cnc work. Both of these programs are very powerful and both have strong 3D capabilities. The combination has, more or less, caused me to stop using Dolphin Partmaster - which is itself a good piece of software, but probably outside your price bracket.
Cheers.
Martin.
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Thanks Martin, I will look into both programs. I have to say I am happy this forum is here, you folks are a big help and as I get more and more into all this i'm going to need ya all. thanks jay
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If you have an engineer student friend, you can get the educational version of SolidWorks for $200 USD. Normally sells for $4-5k. Fantastic 3D CAD program.
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rhino is also available at about 200 or so for student versions.. one of the best nurbs programs I have ever worked with.
packs a lot of punch for a small pricetag.. most my jewellery is designed in it. rhinocam would close the deal if you were up for the extra 2K price...
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I had heard of both rhinocam and Solidworks and had looked them up its when I seen the prices and then the vast number of other programs like them I asked for help from you all. Don't have any engineer friends. Thanks for the input. At the moment I need to wait on it. Laid off from work at the moment, don't want to spend anything. I do have a bit more time to spend in the garage though. Thanks Jay
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HIYA JAY IF you have time on your hands and no money there ARE free programs out there to learn on. Maybe not the best but free is free when you really need it.
(;-) TP
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Hi Jay
Not a good time for a relativly expensive hobby then.
I'm self employed so I have to watch what I spend all the time and there are usable alternatives that are free but they do take some getting used to and also you'll need to learn about editing Gcode by hand as most of them don't do everything for you.
It's a good idea to get used to editing Gcode anyway so have a search on the internet for simple tutorials on Gcode.
Steve
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Thanls guys, at the moment I'm going to work with Mach and the machine, and continue to check out the programs that have been suggested. I have found a couple of freebies and am looking at them to. By the the time I am ready to buy something I hope to know better what I really need. I had watched a tutorial on Gcode before and will study it more, like anything else I do I like to know why and how it works, its not good enough to just know it works.
Jay
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Hi Jay,
Sorry to hear you got laid off from work.
Iam not sure if it has already been asked,but what type of machine is it that you have set up and what is it that you want to make with your machine?
I have set my little Proxxon MF70 up for making really small R/C helicopter parts and now I have been making and selling the parts to people around the world from a helicopter forum.
Don't get me wrong,Iam not making a fortune,but after about 2 months now. I have made enough money to cover the price of Mach3 and Cut2d.
It has taken a lot of time and patience,but if you intend on making something where you can sell for a few dollars,It might be another way to help with the costs involved.
I see every hour at the machine is an investment in experience too.
All the best.
Regards Jason
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I have been checking out Synergy and it seems to be working quite well for Turn. It is certainly not the easiest or most intuitive to learn and the tutorial runthoughs are not great as there is no sound but after a while you start to pick things up.
The price of it is reportedly $89 and it covers milling and turning plus CAD, certainly worth a look.
Hood
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The Hobbiest price for Weber's "Synergy" is $89.95 and the trial period is 30 days. The 3D cam jumps to $1250.
Like all software there is a learning curve and i didn't find it too intuitive.The software is not restrictive in the sense that it's automated and and you can't do something. Talking to Weber, they made it just the opposite in that it's configurable and meant to be used however you want to use it. Lots of buttons, pulldowns which would be expected, because you got CAD, Mill, and lathe all wrapped up into one package. I just fooled with it for the lathe
and it actualy allows you choice, but, trying to figure out the logic will take some time. If you never fooled with other
software before and have no feel for what to look for you may be at a total loss. If you try it, watch "carefully" the few tutorial videos and try to get the logic of how the program works paying particular attention to screen prompts etc. I need to play with it more, but for the price and what you get, it may be worth some time to see if it's right for you.
To make software easy to use, restrictions and decisions are made for you, and you live them......on the other hand, if it's not restrictive, then you need to take care of all the details in order to use it.
Just my first impression of Synergy,
RICH
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Where can we download the trial version and the tutorial videos of synergy?
Thanks,
Dave
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http://www.webersys.com/
there are pdf there as well but only looked at the lathe one and as far as changing the default tools the description is not accurate.
The tutorials are in the programme itself.
Hood
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Thank you, sir-
Dave
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Ok, well I've never had an issue with unzipping a file before in my 10 years of using a PC and I've tried Windows, WINZIP, and PKZIP unzippers and none of these are opening the synergy zip file.
May I ask what you are all using?
Thanks,
Dave
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its self extracting, just doubleclick it :)
Hood
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Also once installed reboot, I had a lot of crashing issues at first and was about to give it up as a bad joke, decided to uninstall and reinstall then reboot and its been fine since. One thing though is dont try any of the other options from the Start, All Programmes, weber systems. They dont seem to work for me anyway.
Hood
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its self extracting, just doubleclick it :)
Hood
Tried that ;) .......no love.
Dave
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:(
What happens?
Hood
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It slowly starts to unzip and just hangs in the middle of unzipping each program I've used.
I've tried clearing my cache, temp files, rebooting freshly, everything.
Just really very odd as I've honestly never had a problem unzipping anything.
I'll play with it and re download again later.
Any chance I could get you to email the the file/folders in a zip file that YOU zipped up?
Dave
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To be honest I think their downloads a bit buggy, as mentioned I had issues at first and put it down to not rebooting but maybe it wasnt, seems to have settled down now.
Hood
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Dave,
I downloaded the file and it self extracted / installed the program. Never had to reboot or anything.
Don't know,maybe just lucky on my end.
RICH
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Thanks, Rich. Tried on 4 different PC's today and all the same. Very odd indeed-
Dave
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is this the file name your downloading?
installsyn168 53,004 KB Application
RICH
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No sir, I'm only seeing the zip file "dlsynergy"
Dave
EDIt: from here where hood showed me the link.
http://www.webersys.com/
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Found a cached webpage with the file you mentioned,
http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:OiR461imWXAJ:www.webersys.com/download/windows.htm+installsyn168&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
Possibly weber pulled the live page?
Dave
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Ok the new file from the cache page worked perfectly, thanks for the tip of the file name Rich-
Dave
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Dave,
Good, i haven't fooled with it that much. Let me know what you think about it.
RICH
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Hi Rich,
Looked at the turn section and the tutorial "playback" they have, and while I haven't given it a fair shake, I'm not really diggin it much.
I don't really like the way things are implemented but that could just be me.
It's no LazyTurn ;)
Dave
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Dave,
Understand what your saying. Here's what is nice. You can go in a pick a particular section of a turned piece along the
Z axis staying outside or inside the undercut, make moves to a point, thus your not restricted. Now exactly how to do that stuff and the exact sequence along with tool definition is a different story. You need to get all the buttons and logic "Synergy" way of doing it down. I hacked away and was sucessfull, then douldn't duplicate what i did
( who takes notes when their hacking away), even posted code. How buggy it is, well who knows ( and they are all buggy!) and there is no forum to ask questions.
RICH
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How buggy it is, well who knows ( and they are all buggy!) and there is no forum to ask questions.
Excellent point, and we all know how I need support... :D
Dave