Machsupport Forum

Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: techsol on April 22, 2009, 03:58:47 PM

Title: Noob is mystified
Post by: techsol on April 22, 2009, 03:58:47 PM
I'm new to Mach3 and can use some help.

I'm an experienced electrical engineer, embedded systems "guy", I design micro-controller based electronics, write firmware, Windows device drivers, dlls, applications, etc.

I have a small Dyna DM2200 machine in my basement, that I currently run with the electronics that it came with... they still work (1980s vintage)... believe it or not.

For those not familiar with the DM2200, it's a small benchtop 3-axis mill, stepper motor based, with it's own controller, and it's own programming language (Dyna proprietary, not g-code).

I'm interested in making the move to Mach3, and some sort of CAD/CAM software, to be more up to date.

I should be more than qualified to do this task (electronics and software wise)... but my machining knowledge is somewhat more limited.

Tapping into the DM2200 controls appears to be very easy, as the axis each have their own stepper drivers with STEP and DIR inputs, as well as home switches.

When the time comes... I will figure out distance per step, direction settings for each axis, and active states for the home switches.

So... the next step for me was to check out Mach3, and, for now, LazyCam.

I watched a bunch of the tutorial videos on the ArtSoft site, then I downloaded the latest lockdown version (Mach3 R3.042.020) from the ArtSoft web-site.

My plan was to just run Mach3 and LazyCam on my main computer WITHOUT installing the parallel driver or attempting to control any real hardware.

The hope was that those programs would run, I'd be able to experiment around with the example files (roadrunner, spanner, shapes, etc.) and get a feel for the apps before actually trying to control a real machine, or shelling out any money (though they are VERY REASONABLY priced).

I have had a lot of luck with this endeavor... but have also struggled quite a bit, and am now seeing something that i just can't figure out.

So here I am... asking for help.

Here's what I expected to be able to do:

1.  Run Mach3, without doing much of any setup, as it's in purely DEMO and SIMULATION modes (not controlling any real hardware).
2.  Run LazyCam, open the included dxf example files (roadrunner, spanner, shapes, etc.) view the toolpaths, generate g-code.
3.  In Mach3, see the resulting G-CODE from the examples, see the toolpath window, run the code (or at least the first 500 lines of it) in demo mode, and see the toolpath.

As I am doing this with the example files that came with the demo... I expected it to work, without much in the way of "gotchas" or strange unexplainables.

It's close.

I am absolutely able to run Mach3 and LazyCam.

I see the geometries of the example dxfs in LazyCam, and am able to generate G-Code into Mach3.

This is where things quit going so smoothly.

Apparently, due to the 500 line limitation in Mach3 (demo mode), and the fact that most of the example files generate more than that... I don't see what I was hoping for in Mach3, full geometries in the toolpath window.

I get partials... for instance... I see part of the Spanner Wrench.

I understand why this happens... and I could live with that... were it the only problem.

For evaluation, I tried reducing the size of the examples (let's talk about spanner) by deleting the 2nd chain, leaviing just the small oval from the left side of the spanner.

Now the geometry displayed in LazyCam and the ToolPath window of Mach3 match... and the G-code is well under 500 lines.

If I click on the first line of the G-Code, then slowly scroll with my wheel (mouse), I see the white highlights in the toolpath window, as expected (very cool).

This is where things quit going so smoothly (again).

Ok... here we go... pressing the start button (already cleared with reset).

Remember... I'm just simulating here... no actual machine... and this IS an example file... I've alread scrolled through the g-code and toolpath window looked good.

I expected to see Mach3 run through the G-code, executing line by line, while updating the DRO's and displaying the toolpath motion in the toolpath window.

That's not what I get.

It seems to jump through the g-code to the first line containing a G3... and then, in the toolpath windows, starts drawing these big green circles that don't seem to be in any way related to the part geometry.

First one in one direction, then one in the other direction, then a larger one, then an even larger one... then more on the opposite side of the origin... it's weird.

Stranger yet... it seems to do something very similar, regardless of what example file I have loaded.

My thinking right now is that this is happening either because:

1.  It's the demo... no license (but the other posts on this forum seem to indicate demo is FULLY functional up to 500 lines).
2.  It's because I didn't install the parallel port driver, and am runnning as a pure simulation (my guess).

If this is a demo issue... hey I'm more than happy to shell out the $175.00 for Mach3, the $75.00 for LazyCam Pro, and even the $50.00 for the "Mach3 addon's for Mill", as I said, all very reasonably priced.

If it's a simulation issue... I guess that means I have to either install the parallel port driver (not going to happen on my main P.C.) mabe even do a full-on hardware implementation with the actual interface to my mill.

At any rate, I guess I'm a little dissapointed that the example dxfs don't actually seem to work very well in demo/simulate mode... seems like that would be an obvious  goal for evaluation purposes.

I'm hoping somebody out there knows the deal, and can tell me... "go here and click on this and that, and then it will work".

Best regards,

Michael







Title: Re: Noob is mystified
Post by: Hood on April 22, 2009, 04:13:47 PM
Dont think you should need to install the driver to use in simulation, I have certainly used it that way before although normally I just install it, is there a reason you dont want to instal it?.
 Can you attach both the code and the xml for the profile you are testing. The xml will be in C:\Mach3 and if its the standard Mill profile you use it will be called Mach3Mill.xml. You will need to copy it to another loacation on your drive then rename before the forum will accept it, suggest you rename techsol.xml

Hood
Title: Re: Noob is mystified
Post by: MachineMaster on April 22, 2009, 04:15:31 PM
In "Config/general config" is IJ Mode Absolute or Incremental? Being set wrong would cause the large circles.
Title: Re: Noob is mystified
Post by: Jeff_Birt on April 22, 2009, 04:34:06 PM
I converted a Dyna 2400 a few years ago to Mach control. It is just a slightly 'newer' machine than the 2200. I pulled out the distribution board and made my own opto-isolation board to fit the same geometry and that the stock wires would plug into. This worked well but the phase jitter from the LPT port driver combined with the stock stepper drivers left with with a max traverse speed of 10 IPM. Just last week I tired it with a SmoothStepper instead and got the rapids up to 30 IPM.

If I had it to do over again today I would use the SmoothStepper and a Gecko G540 driver. Neither were available when I did the machine. The Gecko G540 is nice as it has the optoisolation built in, among other things. It would have made the whole job much easier.

The 'crop circles' you describe are a classic symptom of the IJ mode being configured wrong (as others have stated.)
Title: Re: Noob is mystified
Post by: Hood on April 22, 2009, 04:36:18 PM
Surely crop circles would show in the toolpath view when loaded, also when scrolling through the toolpath and not just when running?
Hood
Title: Re: Noob is mystified
Post by: Jeff_Birt on April 22, 2009, 04:52:12 PM
I'm not sure Hood, that could be. Maybe he can post the file here so we can try it. I also vaguely remember Brian saying something about the simulation mode using a completely different 'driver' (in other words not the LPT driver) perhaps this simulation 'driver' is getting confused?

By the description of the problem it sure sounds like crop circles though.
Title: Re: Noob is mystified
Post by: Hood on April 22, 2009, 04:54:46 PM
That too was my first though Jeff, but when he said that he could scroll through the code and watch the white line move round correctly I  reckoned it couldnt be that as any time I have seen it toolpath display showed them just after loading the code.
Hood
Title: Re: Noob is mystified
Post by: techsol on April 22, 2009, 07:31:51 PM
Wow,

That's great, people actually responding, I'm delighted!

Ok... about 6 replies to my original post, I'm going to try and respond to all here.

First off, for Hood, during the installation of Mach3 I got prompted for setting up a profile.

Being somewhat unclever... and knowing the CNC I will eventually try to control is a DYNA DM2200... I typed in "Dyna" and the install created a shortcut on my desktop called "Dyna" (as well as one called "Mach3 Loader").

I'm assuming the install used all the default settings in creating the Dyna profile.

So... the profile I'm using is called "Dyna", and I've been changing settings quite a bit trying to make this work, as evidenced by the 17 different versions of Dyna in my xmlbackups directory.

Unfortunately, I'm also new to this forum and now need to figure out how to post the file.... ahhhh, under additional options... got it.

Ok, I've renamed my "Dyna.xml" file to "techsol.xml", as directed, and attached.

It should be pretty much as created... though I did try changing a few things (like soft limits to make the table area bigger... as I originally thought that was why the spanner example was getting clipped).

In the interest of keeping things simple...  I'm going to use an unmodified version of the "AOuterProfile.dxf" example file for the followng... as it's small enough to work in demo mode, and it produces the same sort of problems as the other example files.

Everyone should already have that same dxf, as it came with Mach3 and is in the LcamSamples sub-directory of your Mach3 installation.

I simply load the dxf into LazyCam (selecting the "Mill" button), press the clean button, then the Postcode button, and then go back to Mach3.... where the gcode has been automatically posted.

I'm able to then scroll through the G-code listing, and I see the white highlight in the toolpath window... first on the rapid move, then on the vertical line on the far right, then on the arc on the bottom right, then on the horizontal line at the bottom, etc.

I've attached a screen capture of my Mach3 screen while scrolling (scroll.jpg), hard to make out the toolpath window, but you can clearly see the white highlighted arc.

As far as the IJ settings go... it was originally on abs, and I tried changing it to inc, and back again... same basic result, but the crop circles are larger and draw slower when IJ is set to inc.

Ok... I just noticed something that I hadn't before...

Besides the "Cycle Start" button, there is also a "Simulate Program Run" button.

Up until now, I've been clicking on "Cycle Start", that's where I'm seeing the "crop circles".

When I click on "Simulate Program Run"... the ONLY things that happen is the area between the "Simulate Pogram Run" and "Run from Here" flashes red, the gcode display jumps to line N65 almost immediately, and the "Estimated Program Run Time" counts up to  23:23.

If I then change my config IJ setting to inc, and do it again... same exact thing... immediately to line N65, stays there the whole time run time counter counts up to 23:23.

I get the feeling the "Simulate Program Run" is more about estimating run-time.

If I click on "Cycle Start" (IJ = ABS)... the gcode window immediately goes to line N50, the X DRO is slowly counting up, Y DRO is slowly counting down (even though line N50 clearly show a Y val of 0.000) and I get the beginnings of a large counter-clockwise arc from the origin.

I've attached a screen capture (start.jpg) of this that I took while it was running... not completed, as it's VERY SLOWLY drawing in the toolpath window, but you can clearly see the DRO's and the beginning of what will be a BIG circle.

Thanks to Jeff for the info on his Dyna 2400 conversion... interesting.  I had already looked at both the SmoothStepper and the various Gecko stuff (G100, and the various individual drivers).

Thanks to all of you for your various responses.

I get the feeling what I'm seeing is completely related to the lack of a driver... I can tell that Mach3 is a very widely used, very functional application, so I'm looking for "what am I doing different" which has got to be the lack of the driver.

The reason I didn't want to install the driver on this P.C. was because this is my MAIN get things done, write code, draw schematics, layout circuit boards, balance my checkbook, get my email... P.C..  The driver... doesn't seem like something I would want on this P.C.

But... it's the P.C. I have running today... has the most up to date hardware, biggest monitor, most memory, and... I WANTED TO PLAY WITH MACH3 AND LAZYCAM WITHOUT FURTHER DELAY!!!

I should probably just set up another P.C., install the driver, and try this all again.... hopefully sparing everybody further posts from this noob.

Best regards,

Michael
Title: Re: Noob is mystified
Post by: MachineMaster on April 22, 2009, 09:02:42 PM
Well it looks to me like you have things set up in metric but some setting is trying to run the code in inch.
Title: Re: Noob is mystified
Post by: RICH on April 22, 2009, 10:41:24 PM
Michael,
I have installed MACH on numerous PC's, as an example, two at work for playing around / simulation, and never experienced any problems or interference with other programs. So not sure of your reluctance to installing it on your "main" pc but that's your choice. There is no problem removing it should you so desire. Just thought i would mention this.
RICH
Title: Re: Noob is mystified
Post by: Hood on April 23, 2009, 02:24:26 AM
You dont have any motors enabled in that xml, so it cant be the xml you are using as there would be no axis movement in the DROs and no movement showing in toolpath display when you pressed start.

I dont have LazyCAM installed so would appreciate if you attach your code :)

Yes the simulate is to estimate run time.

Hood

Title: Re: Noob is mystified
Post by: techsol on April 23, 2009, 09:24:21 AM
Ok,

Thanks for the reply.

I'm looking at my Mach3 directory from a command prompt...

I do a "dir *.xml" (directory listing of all xml files).

It shows:

 Directory of C:\Mach3

04/22/2009  08:37 PM            84,536 Dyna.xml
04/22/2009  08:19 PM             2,514 LazyCam.xml
04/06/2008  11:54 AM            91,309 Mach3Mill.xml
10/25/2006  09:15 PM            45,264 Mach3Turn.xml
10/25/2006  09:14 PM            43,674 Plasma.xml
12/03/2007  04:00 PM                12 Screen4.xml
               6 File(s)        267,309 bytes
               0 Dir(s)  147,745,312,768 bytes free

As I only installed Mach3 yesterday, which was  04/22/2009... and alll of the files except two have dates older than that... meaning they are all "as installed" except Dyna.xml and LazyCam.xml... I'm pretty sure I'm using Dyna.

Further... if you look at my screen captures... they both show the Dyna profile as the selected profile.

I'm not surprised to hear there are no motors enabled.

Again... this is a pure evaluation environment... no machine tool... no actual motors... no parallel port driver.

The DRO's DO change when I press start, and the Crop circles DO get drawn in the toolpath window... again... see screen capture "start.jpg" in my previous message.

Now... I'm completely willing to believe they SHOULDN'T... but they do... even though it may be due to some sort of uninitentional byproduct of the program running with no driver.

And that is why I'm confused.... it DOES do something, it's just that what it does... doesn't seem to have any correlation to the geometry or the g-code.

You have to admit... that's confusing.

As a programmer myself... I completely understand that any deviation from the path of expected use... may yield unexpected results.

I prefer to spend my own coding time working on features for the 99% of user's that use my software as intended, rather than trying and handling every possible error that the other 1% may induce.

I suspect, by not installing the parallel driver, or setting up any motors... I've put myself square into that 1% weirdo category and am thus... seeing behaviour you folks haven't seen.

My fx for that is... quit being the 1% weirdo... use it the way everybody else is using it... and see if I get different results.

If there are any out there that are curious enough about what I'm seeing... I would suspect it's easy enough to duplicate.

Install the lockdown version of Mach3 and LazyCam, but deselect the driver during the install.... then just load the examples into lazycam, and post-code them to Mach3, and run.

I bet you will see crop circles too.

As far as posting the g-code goes.... easy enough.

Whenevery you click on "post-code" in Lazycam, it automatically transfers the code to Mach3 (depending on your LazyCam settings) but it also creates a g-code file.

I'm attaching the file here.

I'm now going to uninstall Mach3 and LazyCam, and then do a re-install, this time WITH THE DRIVER.

I'lll definitely make at least one post with the results!

Thanks for all of your help!

Best regards,

Michael
Title: Re: Noob is mystified
Post by: Hood on April 23, 2009, 10:49:01 AM
Reason I needed the code posted is I dont have LazyCAM installed ;)

Ok you need the motors enabled, you dont actually need motor connected, you dont need the driver installed but you do need the motors enabled. Try it and see if it works :)

Hood
Title: Re: Noob is mystified
Post by: techsol on April 24, 2009, 02:34:57 PM
Hood,

Thanks again for your continuing assistance.

I had read in your previous post that you didn't have LazyCam installed.

The info in my post about how/where the g-code file was obtained... was meant to state how I got the file... not how you could have.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, I do realize you already know how to generate a g-code file.

The goal was to show that it wasn't something I wrote... as admittedly, I'm the questionable variable here.

It's an un-modified example that ships with Mach3.

I realize I'm the noob here... and I'm putting in lots of extra info in my posts in an attempt to show:

1.  That I'm not really doing anything all that weird... I'm using the examples that came with Mach3 and LazyCam.
2.  That I'm not really the sort of person that should have much difficulty with making this work... I'm a very proficient hardware and software guy... I'm just not a machinist (which I do realize is a full-on art, and profession, in it's own right).

I'm a bit surprised that my initial attempts didn't "just completely work", while at the same time, absolutely delighted wth how much "did just work".

Alright... back to this motor enabling thing.

Unfortunately, by the time I read your post, I had already un-installed both Mach3 and LazyCam (in preparation to reinstall with the driver).

That means I wasn't able to just try enabling the motors, and that's a bummer, as I'm really curious if that's all it was.

It does seem a little strange... I'm not really interfacing to a machine, there are no motors, there is no driver... it's purely a simulation... but you are saying I need to enable some (non-existent) motors to make it work.

I'm not trying to be argumentative... I'm absolutely going to try exactly what you suggest... I'm just pointing out that it does seem a little bit odd.

What I now notice is that, despite the uninstalls, I still have a Mach3 directory, and it has "A LOT" of stuff in it.... multiple sub-directories... multiple files... lot's of dlls, so much for a clean uninstall.

I could understand if any custom files or directories were left... things like my profile, any files that I modified, etc., but that's not all that's left.

I'm not sure I really care... it's not going to make much difference anyway, as I'm about to re-install over it anyhow.

I'm just surprised/concerned that the uninstall wasn't more comprehensive.

It does make me even MORE cautious about installing the driver... if it causes problems... I don't want to end up having to do a system restore to get things back to right.

So... now I'm trying to decide how to proceed.

The plan:

1.  I want a working installation of Mach3 and LazyCam on my office machine.
2.  The office machine installation will NOT interface to a real CNC machine, and I don't want Mach3 to affect the normal operation of that machine for my other critical tasks (all the other stuff I do).
3.  Initially, the office machine installation is purely for evaluation purposes... it let's me get familiar with Mach3 and LazyCam.
4.  Eventually, the office machine is where I would do most of my CAD/CAM programming work, drawing geometries, defining tool-paths, producing G-code, checking results, etc.
5.  I will have a 2nd P.C. in the basement, attached to my CNC machine (iniitally via LPT port, maybe an external motion controller later).
6.  The basement machine will be the one that actually does the machining work, but it will run the files that I initially developed on my office machine.

I want the above in order to cut down on the amount of time I spend in the basement next to my CNC... it's much more comfortable upstairs, plus, the upstairs machine is a much nicer and more powerful computer.

That allows me to keep the basement CNC computer "CNC task specific", optimizing it's hardware and software for the critical "real time" task it will be performing (while at the same time, keeping that critical real time task OFF my office machine).

I expect that the above is not so different from the way most people operate.

Question:  "Do I need to buy 1 or 2 Mach3 licenses for above scenario?"

Given above... I'm about to proceed as follows:

1.  Re-install Mach3 on the office machine... I'm thinking WITHOUT the driver, again.
2.  Install Mach3 on the basement (CNC) machine (with the LPT driver).
3.  Buy a Mach3 License.

I have some hardware interface work to do between the basement machine and my CNC mill, but I'm hoping to be moving motors by next week.

Hey... did I miss the whole "backlash" compensation topic in the tutorial on homing?

I was listening for it... and didn't hear it... though I might have just missed it.

Typically... when you home an axis, you first touch the limit switch, then slowly back off until it "clears" then slowly approach the switch again until it activates... you count the steps, and the value tells you the backlash on that access, which you then use to compensate for backlash on all subsequent moves (as you change axis direction).

Did I just miss it?

Sorry for writing a novel here... my posts should get shorter and less frequent as things progress!

Best regards,

Michael
Title: Re: Noob is mystified
Post by: MachineMaster on April 24, 2009, 02:51:12 PM
Mach 3 just homes by moving into the home switch and then slowly backs out until the switch changes and stops.
Backlash must be determined with a dial indicator. Then there is screw mapping which is another whole topic.
Your plan to install without the driver on the office machine is a good one. Enableing the axes is needed so the program has a reference to track on the screen.
Title: Re: Noob is mystified
Post by: Hood on April 24, 2009, 03:02:38 PM
From the Mach website regarding licence terms.

Quote
Non-commercial users (aka hobbyists) are permitted to use one license for as many machines as they want.  For commercial users (anybody who uses the software to generate profit), we require a separate license purchase for each machine.

As for computers you can install on as many as you like whether commercial of hobby, the licence terms above relate to use on actual machine tools.
 Licencing is changing shortly but the same terms will apply, here a quote
Quote
License for Mach3 is about to be locked per machine ID.. The old
license format has served us well over the past 8 years but it is time
to change with the times   . This will be web based (you don't need to
have the controller computer connected to the web) . It is a simple code
that you need to type in... The license file that you have now will get
you into the data base and allow you to register your machines on the
web page to get your code. I hate to do this to you but we are getting
to many people copying license files and using us for support    . In
the end that is what pays to make it so we can keep working on the
software to make it better and more robust! one last note on the license
junk.. the terms will be the same.. If you are a hobby user (Not cutting
for money) you can run from the one license that you have BUT you will
need to register the machine on the web using the same license name.


Hood

Title: Re: Noob is mystified
Post by: techsol on April 24, 2009, 04:17:53 PM
Regarding,

"Mach 3 just homes by moving into the home switch and then slowly backs out until the switch changes and stops.
Backlash must be determined with a dial indicator. Then there is screw mapping which is another whole topic.
Your plan to install without the driver on the office machine is a good one. Enableing the axes is needed so the program has a reference to track on the screen."

Yowza.... really?

It's such a simple thing to do as part of the homing... and can be done for each axis in a matter of seconds.

The controller that comes with the Dyna machine measures and compensates for backlash every time you initialize the machine, and it displays the actual backlash values.

This is very handy as:

1.  I don't have to manually do it, cuz I'm really pretty lazy.
2.  It gets done routinely, adjusting for changes in the backlash that may (and do) occur over time, keeping the machine more accurate.
3.  It warns me when the amount of backlash is too big... which is something that can be fixed, but requires physical adjustment of the axis.

That really leaves me wondering why Mach3 wouldn't just do it the same way... it's so easy to just slowly move the axis back and forth while looking for the switch state to change state, and counting the steps.

Perhaps it requires a particularly precise type of home/limit switch in order to work, and not all machines have them?

I guess I can probably live with it for now, and figure out how to do it automatically (in my own custom script or macro or something) later, but it's dissapointing.

I just tried to buy a license via the ArtSoft site (via SecurePay.com), and that didn't go well at all.

I got through the first screen, where I entered my personal info, then clicked on the button at the bottom.

Instead of progressing to a credit card screen, I get an error screen about needing cookies and session settings (something like that) enabled.

Now... I'm no noob to online shopping.   I routinely buy things from any number of online stores, digikey.com, tigerdirect.com, amazon.com, symantec.com, so on an so on.

I haven't experienced a "need to have cookies enabled" screen in literally years.

I tried just adding securepay.com to my trusted sites... no dice.

Further... the error screen offers no information about exactly what settings I should change in IE to allow it to work.

My feeling is... I shouldn't have to change jack-squat... plenty of online stores are able to work without me lowering my security settings... this is bad.

The last thing the ArtSoft people should want is for people that are ready and willing to buy... not being able to because of the way SecurePay's order processing works.

VERY FRUSTRATING!

I've seen that other merchants sell Mach3 licenses.... can anybody suggest a reputable dealer that has a better online store?

Thanks for the licensing info.

Sounds like "not too painful today, but much more so tomorrow".

I'm in a bit of a grey area... my actual machining work is going to be VERY MINIMAL... cutting holes in the occasional plastic front panel, prototype stuff.  Very "hobby like".

But... I'm an engineer... most of what I do is somehow related to eventually producing some product.

Technically... for profit... somewhere down the road.

But I'm also just one guy, working out of my house... two licenses for one machine tool that I will use a few times a year... seems like gross overkill to me.

At $175.00 per... I don't really care... I'd be willing to buy two and not have to wonder... it's still a bargain.

What I don't want, as a legitimate holder of two licenses for one machine tool that I will use a few times a year... is ANY KIND OF HASSLE in getting that software and licenses to work.

I change out my P.C.s fairly frequently... about once a year or so... and I"m frequently in "License Hell" with the various software packages I legitimately own.

It's not one of my favorite topics, as it has costs me many days of effort to continually resolve licensing issues with all my various design packages.

I'm hoping the new machine locked scheme will stop well short of making Mach3 a pain to use.

Chances are... the license cheater folks will find a way around it anyway... which means the only people that will actualy suffer... you got it... are the legitimate users.

From the quote... it sounds like the powers that be at ArtSoft are at least aware of the issue... even apologetic... I guess that's a good sign... caring is nice.

Best regards,

Michael
Title: Re: Noob is mystified
Post by: Hood on April 24, 2009, 04:25:01 PM
Quote
But I'm also just one guy, working out of my house... two licenses for one machine tool that I will use a few times a year... seems like gross overkill to me.

Not sure I follow, why would you require two licences if you only have one machine?

Hood
Title: Re: Noob is mystified
Post by: Jeff_Birt on April 24, 2009, 04:40:43 PM
Quote
"Mach 3 just homes by moving into the home switch and then slowly backs out until the switch changes and stops.
Backlash must be determined with a dial indicator. Then there is screw mapping which is another whole topic.
Your plan to install without the driver on the office machine is a good one. Enabling the axes is needed so the program has a reference to track on the screen."

Yowza.... really?

It's such a simple thing to do as part of the homing... and can be done for each axis in a matter of seconds.

The controller that comes with the Dyna machine measures and compensates for backlash every time you initialize the machine, and it displays the actual backlash values.

The Dyna controller tries to measure backlash by sensing the number of pulses between the closing an opening of the switch. That is not real accurate at all it does wind up giving you some idea if your switches are sticking though. To really measure backlash you really need a more accurate way to measure it, like a dial indicator.

Backlash compensation on a mill is somewhat of a myth. The cutting forces (bit on material) will have a tendency of pushing the table around taking up any backlash opposite the direction of the force. If you enable backlash compensation, set it right and, move one axis at a time it will look like you accomplished something. In actual practice you'll find that it did not help at all.

A more accurate homing solution is to use an encoder with an index pulse on each axis. The home switch then becomes a 'hey home is near' switch and 'Home' is seen as when both the mechanical 'home' switch and index pulse are seen.

Quote
My feeling is... I shouldn't have to change jack-squat... plenty of online stores are able to work without me lowering my security settings... this is bad.

The last thing the ArtSoft people should want is for people that are ready and willing to buy... not being able to because of the way SecurePay's order processing works.

VERY FRUSTRATING!

I've seen that other merchants sell Mach3 licenses.... can anybody suggest a reputable dealer that has a better online store?

I can understand being frustrated but I can see the other side of the coin too. As an online merchant I can check and double check things and then my shopping cart software, some browser, etc will change on little thing and something breaks for someone. It is frustrating for all involved. Try it again and if you have no luck you can pick up a license at my site: http://soigeneris.com/shop/Mach_3_97626.aspx (I guess I would have to count myself as being reputable  ;) )
Title: Re: Noob is mystified
Post by: techsol on April 24, 2009, 05:07:03 PM
Backlash:

I'm not sure what's right... but I don't really see anything wrong with the Dyna method, provided the limit switches are precision devices (repeatably activate at same mechanical position).

If they are... then the method described should work very well, as the number of steps "lost" (that don't produce actual axis movement) when changing axis direction... is directly proportional to the backlash, is determinate, and can be calculated based on the value of distance per step for the machine.

I'm leaving the door open on this one... as I'm NOT a machinist, and I realize there are things at play here that I don't know about.

I'm just saying... seems like it should work well... Dyna used that method for years, and had machines that were absolutely capable of producing very small, very precise, parts.

Even when used by bozos like myself.  :)

Licensing:

In the P.C. application software licensing world...  a license that is locked to a single "Machine" usually means a license that is locked to a single "P.C." (the machine being the computer the software runs on).

You are thinking Machine = CNC, which may be right... but it's up to the ArtSoft people to make it clear what they mean by "Machine", as they are the ones doing the licensing and employing the scheme.

As stated, I want to run Mach3 on two different P.C.s, only one of which will actually be controlling a CNC "machine".

The question remains... one license or two?

Best regards,

Michael
Title: Re: Noob is mystified
Post by: Hood on April 24, 2009, 05:16:32 PM
No question, only one licence for one machinetool.
 If you install the driver or a motion plugin then you will be required to get an activation code. If you use Mach in simulation mode then you will not need the activation code.
You can apply for as many codes as you like, you can change computers as often as you like, what will happen is if your requests for licences go above a certain amount in a certain timeframe then you will be flagged and contacted and asked why you need so many.
 The reason for that is OEMs have been selling hundreds of machines and supplying the one licence file with them, so if a licence name keeps popping up, especially from different IPs then the alert will go out to Scott.

Hood
Title: Re: Noob is mystified
Post by: MachineMaster on April 24, 2009, 05:30:04 PM
Does that mean that if the PP driver is not installed and Mach is in simulation mode that the demo limitations are gone?(500 lines,wizards)
Title: Re: Noob is mystified
Post by: Hood on April 24, 2009, 05:31:51 PM
There will no longer be limitations.
Hood
Title: Re: Noob is mystified
Post by: MachineMaster on April 24, 2009, 06:03:36 PM
Can I uninstall the driver or do I have to uninstall everything and start over on my office computer?
Title: Re: Noob is mystified
Post by: Hood on April 24, 2009, 06:05:39 PM
Driver can be removed via device manager

Hood
Title: Re: Noob is mystified
Post by: techsol on April 24, 2009, 06:19:27 PM
Licensing:

Very understandable, and I can certainly live with that.

I just placed an order for one license on the Soigeneris site, no problems whatsoever, no prompts for changing my browser settings, no cookies, etc... much better.

I'm assuming I will get an email with the license info.

Thanks again to all of you for your continuing tolerance of this noob (just to be clear, I mean me).

Best regards,

Michael
Title: Re: Noob is mystified
Post by: Hood on April 24, 2009, 06:25:24 PM
Not sure how the OEM licences work, presume Scott still has overall control so Jeff may have to tell Scott to email your licence, should be within 24hrs, probably a lot sooner.
 The info in the email will be an attachment called Mach1Lic.dat, just place it in the Mach3 folder and next time you start Mach you will be licenced.
Hood
Title: Re: Noob is mystified
Post by: techsol on April 25, 2009, 01:16:14 AM
Here's the latest.

I purchased a Mach3 license file through the Soigeneris, and have already recieved it (Thanks!).

That's probably the best spent $175.00 of my entire life.

I debated what version of Mach3 to install on the 2nd go around... the lockdown, the release candidate, or the "don't use this one" (development only) version.

I could not resist the temptation of the "latest and greatest" so I went with the development only version (and the moderators all groaned).

The installation of both Mach3 and LazyCam was trouble free, and I again opted to NOT install the driver, and again, I had the installer create a Mill profile for me, named "Dyna".

This is my office machine... not connected to a real CNC.... that's why I don't want to install the driver.

I then rebooted, as that is what Art says to do.  I'm figuring if Art says it... I do it.

After a fresh boot, I copied my license file into the Mach3 directory (as per guidance from several of you kind folks).

I then started Mach3 by double clicking on the Dyna shortcut the installer created on my desktop.

After Mach3 started, the very first thing I did was go into the "Help - About" dialog to see if the license file was being recoginzed... it was.

I then went into the configuration, set the native units to mm (already was) and then... following Mr. Hood's sage advice, I enabled X, Y, and Z motors.

Next, I started LazyCam, opened up the spanner dxf, clicked on "clean", then "reset origin" and then "Post Code".

Back to Mach3... I had a nice picture of the entire spanner in my toolpath window.

I clicked on RESET to clear the normal startup condition.

Then... taking a deep breath... I clicked on Start.

I noticed a significant improvement over my previous attempts right away.

1.  I noticed the green arrow in my toolpath window shooting up to the top (I'm assuming to indicate Z axis to clearance height).
2.  I noticed a green line slowly forming right down the first rapid move line in the spanner geometry.

I watched it for quite awhile... and it's truly a beautiful thing.

I then clicked on STOP and "Go To Zero".

After it returned to zero, I went back into the configuration (Ports and Pins, Motor Outputs tab) and disabled X, Y, and Z.

Then I tried running it again.

Crop circles.

So... this noobs mystery is solved... the strange patterns drawn in the toolpath window occured because I didn't have any of my (imaginary) motors enabled.

That's good enough for me.

I'm delighted, and I'm looking forward to the next steps.

Thank you all for your help.

Best regards,

Michael

Title: Re: Noob is mystified
Post by: Hood on April 25, 2009, 05:34:42 AM
Suggest you download 026 version and instal over the top of the Dev version. It is there for testing of new cutter comp code and there are a few problems with it. You dont need to uninstall the old version, it will be overwritten fine.
 Also worth noting is the new installer will do the rebooting for you if its needed, because you had previously installed Mach on that computer there was no need to reboot but it certainly wont do any harm if you wish to do so.

Glad you are up and running :)
Hood