Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: Brian Barker on April 01, 2009, 10:50:51 AM
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Message that I posted on the other forum...
Hello All,
I think you can see that I have been working my tail off for the last
bit :) I have been working on the display code in Mach3 getting it into
it's own thread. This has been working very well on the systems that I
have here but has needed me to clean up the offsets section of code. The
old offsets worked by reseting the trajectory planner to a new position
and so on.. I have changed Mach3's Gcode interpreter to output all moves
in machine position . This was done to solve some display problems that
we had in the past and also offered some places to add some new tools
(for turn and mill)! The tools that I have added are as follows:
Work Shift : This allows you to shift ALL fixture offsets in Mach3..
What would you use this for you may ask ;) Well if you are into dry
running your parts you can "shift" the program up in the Z axis to dry
run the part without effecting your fixture offsets. Also if you are
facing parts and the part needs to be a bit deeper to clean the face you
can shift into the part and you get to keep your fixture offset.. The
biggest uses of this is for Probe work! With this you can now shift for
your probe without killing your fixture offset! (this is also a feature
that is on the Fanucs and I wanted it ;) ) Also you will see this
offset in the toolpath (more on why need to know this later )
Head Shift: This one I have never seen (so please bear with me).. As I
was adding the work shift I was thinking that this would be GREAT for
the people that would like to have more then one head on there machine
(A VERY common request we get now) . In testing I found that it worked
great but it had two problems :( 1. I could no longer use the workshift
the way I would like... 2. The toolpath looked all munched! (shifted
when it should not be) . So I came up with the idea that I would add a
Head shift that will not show in the toolpath! This will now allow you
to have as many heads as you would like on the machine and registers
that you can set the offsets. I am working now to make the soft limits
work with the offsets and expect to be testing soon on the router that I
had in PA. Examples of using this will be after 4.0 release...
Other points that we are working on:
1.) G28 and G30, now work as explained in Peter Smid's book (this will
make Posts work better as well)
2.) The DRO,LED an Button numbers are getting redone to be something
that is a bit more logical :) . This is a big job and Brett is just
about done with this.. More on this when it is done.. I am going to add
a compatibility mode so the old screens will work but new features will
not be added to the old numbering system.. I am half thinking about
making a converter program that you can copy and paste text too convert
it into the new 4.0 numbering format.
3.) Data structures are redone in Mach3 so Plugins will not work :( The
Plugins will need to be recompiled with the new header files.. Please
don't ask for the header files at this time because I am still working
on them :)
4.) License for Mach3 is about to be locked per machine ID.. The old
license format has served us well over the past 8 years but it is time
to change with the times :) . This will be web based (you don't need to
have the controller computer connected to the web) . It is a simple code
that you need to type in... The license file that you have now will get
you into the data base and allow you to register your machines on the
web page to get your code. I hate to do this to you but we are getting
to many people copying license files and using us for support :( . In
the end that is what pays to make it so we can keep working on the
software to make it better and more robust! one last note on the license
junk.. the terms will be the same.. If you are a hobby user (Not cutting
for money) you can run from the one license that you have BUT you will
need to register the machine on the web using the same license name..
5.) Mach3 has been speed up to update at 50Hz from 10Hz, I was able to
do this because I have OpenGL out of the way ;) This is allowing for
faster FRO and feed holds.. So mach3 is starting to have a very nice
"feel" on the controls (soon to get better after this is finished)
6.) Turn IS next on the list after the first release of 4.0 . I needed
to have the offset code redone before I could pull the trigger on this..
I will be adding full support for a 2nd turret as well as the reversal
of the X axis for the 2nd turret. CSS will be updated to keep the feed
per rev correct (this has been something that bugged me about turn for
some time :( ) . I have no idea how long it is going to take to make
the changes but know I have my eye on it!
there is a bit more that I am going to do and things that I have done..
but I will keep that for my next message LOL I got a bit long winded on
this one, but was thinking it was time for you to see what was about to
fall out of the workshop!
Thanks and as you can see I need to get back to work!
Brian
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I haven't heard... when is 4.0 supposed to be released? Thanks for the work you are putting into this!!!
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This is all great news Brian! :) I know this has been a ton of work but necessary to implement, debug, enhance certain functions. I'm sure that much of the work won't be fully appreciated for a long time to come, even by you. As time goes by I feel certain that it will be realised that this is a huge step in the right direction. Just the update speed being increased alone will prove to be a biggie. Thanks for all the hard work!
Brett
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This should be out in about a month or so.. most of the changes have been done but need to be tested more ;)
Thanks
Brian
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Good stuff Brian. Can't wait to try it all out. I can't imagine the amount of time you have invested so far. I think Brett mentioned something about sending you some fine Kentucky bourbon. I hope I didn't spoil the surprise, Brett.
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;D
Brett
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Is the change of OEM #'s going to affect Screen4?
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Yes it will change Screen 4.. I need to get into Screen 4 to fix a few things so I was going to do it all at the same time :)
Thanks
Brian
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Cool. Will wait before working on any new screens. Thanks.
While you're in there can you look at this issue?
Screen 4 let's you lock the controls in place. However, when you edit a script in Mach3, or do anything that causes Mach3 to re save the screenset, Mach3 unlocks all the controls. It would be nice if they stayed locked. :) Thanks again.
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This all sounds good Brian - Thanks for all your hard work.
BUT Maybe I missed something. Has cutter radius compensation been fixed? It's sort of one of the basic requirements isn't it?
Sage
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The new version of comp is in this version..
Thanks
Brian
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I take it that's a fixed version from the one in the 3.043 beta ?
Since there are apparently still issues with that one.
Thanks again
Sage
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Yup sage it will be in the Mach3 4.0 Rev Update.
Brett
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Excellent. Sounds like a good one. Can't wait.
THANKS for all your work.
Sage
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With the faster update speed, is rigid tap an option????
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Hi brian,
this sounds good, I am new to the forum, so forgive me if its a dumb question.
I have got used to relying on the Shuttlepro for jogging,
when Mach3 4.0 is released, will it be long before plugin for Shuttlepro will work with it,
or is it a plugin rewrite?
Thanks for all hard work,
regards
Peter
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Any news on v.4? Thought I'd check to see how close it was to being released.
Thanks!
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I am starting to test ;) So it should be in the next month depending on how many bugs I find ;)
I hope all goes well!
Thanks
Brian
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I second the shuttle pro plugin requirement! And if possible.... there should be an option to reverse the shuttle pro direction per axis. Maybe I have missed it, but I have to be very carful what U do with my y-axis 8)
R
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Brian,
Any update on Version 4.0? I for one am looking forward to this. Many of my programs use offsets, and the screen display on the current version is frustrating to follow.
Keep up the good work.
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He probably needs more of this stuff:
(http://img.skitch.com/20090326-j52tahcm1eubdbua45unjje3t4.jpg)
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In turn I could find no way or dro that stored the offset number that was applied to the turret durring the tool change command.
In milling this is not much of an issue, but in turning sometimes you dont use the same offset number as tool number.
asper : tool 1 with a .031 nose radius say T0101
or tool 1 with a .015 nose radius say T0111
If you can please add this if I am not overlooking it.
Thanks Drew
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In turn I could find no way or dro that stored the offset number that was applied to the turret durring the tool change command.
In milling this is not much of an issue, but in turning sometimes you dont use the same offset number as tool number.
asper : tool 1 with a .031 nose radius say T0101
or tool 1 with a .015 nose radius say T0111
If you can please add this if I am not overlooking it.
Thanks Drew
It is also something I have wanted for a long time and Brian will be adding it when he gets working on Turn.
Hood
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Rev 4 has been going well.. I have started to send it off to the alpha testers :) I am working on the Run From Here code, after that is done I need to do reverse run. Then I think it will be just about ready for bata testing :)
I think Plasma will be after mill as it is very few changes and the same display.. Then Yes you got it Hood TURN! Turn is going to take me a long time as I would like to redo most of the turn code :)
Well back to work for me :)
Brian
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Thanks for the update Brian. Sounds good. My background is in Systems Analysis (Graphics applications in C and Assembly ... and accounting applications in COBOL), and although I have not written much software in the last 10 or 15 years, I have a feel for what is involved in getting a program of this magnitude designed and running - let alone "bug free".
By the way, although I am not entirely sure what you would require of me, I would be willing to be a tester of the new release.
Joe
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Pissed off but it was expected.
Hood
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I am thinking at this time that I will post a link here to the Rev4 software as soon as it is ready for Bata testing :) I don't think general public would be happy if I put the link on the web page and have them on the bleeding edge LOL..
Thanks
Brian
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Hood... We will make your lathe act like it is bigger then it is when we are done.. I am fast getting to the point that I can start working on the turn code :) Only a small buit of Plasma code to do !
Thanks
Brian
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BRIAN you had better get the plasma done RIGHT(:-) I am just finishing up on a brand new PLASMA table. HECK we gave you an extra $16, mach had better be the cats meow for that much exta mula.
Still looking for a good donor LATHE to retro (;-) TP
LOL, (;-0 TP
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Till then I made some Mach 4 Fan Art to look at in the meantime 8). Hope you like it...
(http://www.onesmall.com./stuff/mach4_brushed.jpg)
Or as alternative:
http://www.onesmall.com./stuff/mach4_plan.jpg
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Hi
Any update on the 4.0 ver ?
Regards
Borge
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Have we got a release date yet for Mach3 Rev4 ?? :)
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Hi there
is it true what I hear that Mach3 4.0 update is now not going to be released until the end of the year ?? Is this because of bugs etc ??
Alan B
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I would think it wil be done when it is done(;-) Brian is making HUGE changes to the base code in mach to make it a MUCH better platform. These changes take time. I personelly know that he has worked a solid MONTH to just get the toolpath display running in the manner he wants/needs it to run.
AND still I would imagine compromises had to be done WINDOWs is a fickle enviroment when you have to step outside the boundaries to get things done the way you want it to work. THEN you have to make sure it runs across the incredible array of PCs that are running mach. NO easy task there for sure. What works on one type fails on another(;-)
SO to say BUGS?
NO, I would say the delay is more integration developement research than bugs.
Hope that helps, (;-) TP
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Imagine it's released and doesn't work well on half the installations. The pitch forks would be out, and the mob would be on the loose. Believe me.... the less software costs, the stronger the opinion of the people using it, and the larger the feeling of entitlement to the worlds greatest platform.... It's done when it's done. Without evidence... I think (opinion!!!) that it will be early spring time; if ever. Now it has to run under Win7, Vista, XP. It's a bag of fleas and not really a realtime environment. MS took our money and used it to create modules to regulate the use of the software to their advantage and not to the users, definitely not to perform better. And that makes the task so difficult at hand.
Lemo
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YEP I know for a fact that the changes to JUST the toolpath display made a HUGE difference in the performance of MACH/Macro/Gcode/VB interactions
(;-) YEP YEP IT DID,
I also know he had a killer version of the toolpath display , BUT it would not work across ALL video platforms. (;-)
Patience Grasshopper, (;-) TP
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Just an FYI it looks like windows 7 is going to be okay as well :) Good things !
Also I have an "expert" in Gcode that I am working with to make 100% sure that the Gcode interperter is working as it should.. This is going to delay release but I think it is for the best..
Thanks
Brian
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Also I have an "expert" in Gcode that I am working with to make 100% sure that the Gcode interperter is working as it should.. This is going to delay release but I think it is for the best..
Thanks
Brian
Thats good to hear as while he is working with the G Code you can get Turn done ;D
Hood
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Funny you say that :) That is what is going to happen :) I just got a table top machine in for the Gcode guy and need to wire that up ... As soon as that is done and the OpenGL is working as it should I am going to start on the turn toolpath.. I am also going to build in a few more tools (programming tools) for your toolposts.. I wish I could go faster but I just can't :(
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That is good to gear as soon I will be replacing the front 4 position toolpost with a front 6 position turret, so that will be turret both front and rear. Oh and no smart asss comments about that please ;)
Hood
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Where can I find MY very own G-Code expert? ;D Nice to see you back here Brian!!!
Sid
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On the subject of cutter comp with the new version of Mach, will it only work on linear lead in/out or can I use arc lead in/out with G41 G42..?
My Fanuc machines will do cutter comp on linear and arc leads..
Thanks, John
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I have not added the arc lead in and out as I can find NO docs on how it should be done.. if you can show me how it should work in a fanuc manual I will think about adding it.. I think you will find that they add a move to get to the right Rad and then just do an Arc.. The Comp is not taken out in the arc move.. (that would be a spiral not an arc.. )
Thanks
Brian
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Yes I think you are right Brian now I come to think of it..I will have a look through my Fanuc manuals and put some of my code up later..
Beacause I always put arc lead in/out on my Cadcam I was presuming thats where it puts the G41/ G42 but I will check for sure..
John.
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Great :) I like looking at code.. it is my thing LOL
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Brian here is some of my code with the G41 and the D23 which is the radius offset I put in my Fanuc tool offset menu in slot 23.
It looks like it is doing the offset on X,Y before doing the radius as you thought ;)
The cadcam only does cutter comp on finish passes. It produces the finish path on the centre line of the tool and lets the Fanuc move the tool over as is the norm.
For the rough path it offsets the tool by using the tool radius set in the cadcam tool library and also leaves the correct ammount which I have chosen for the finish pass ie. 0.1mm.
For me the rough pass doesn't have to be spot on so if my tool is set a bit big or small in the cadcam it won't matter.
Fanuc 6MB11
N1695G1X-40.483Y-16.697F400.
N1700G3X-31.563Y-18.01I6.758J14.954F293.
N1705G2X9.197Y-19.243I16.617J-124.99F400.
N1710G1G41D23X7.68Y-25.077
N1715G3X8.774Y-25.367I2.929J8.811F200.
N1720G2X40.497Y-36.576I-23.719J-117.633F400.
N1725G3X48.404Y-26.545I3.003J5.765F200.
N1730X38.917Y-20.391I-15.466J-13.455F283.
N1735G2X38.917Y6.391I4.083J13.391F400.
N1740G3X48.404Y12.545I-5.979J19.609F283.
N1745X40.497Y22.576I-4.904J4.266F200.
N1750G2X8.109Y11.236I-55.442J106.424F400.
N1755X6.298Y11.446I-0.576J2.944
N1760G1X-37.499Y31.237
N1765G3X-42.852Y19.391I-2.677J-5.923F200.
N1770G2X-53.148Y-3.391I-5.148J-11.391F400.
N1775G3X-58.501Y-15.237I-2.677J-5.923F200.
N1780G1X-42.991Y-22.247F400.
N1785G3X-30.76Y-24.047I9.266J20.504F294.
N1790G2X11.258Y-25.896I15.814J-118.953F400.
N1795G3X12.375Y-26.075I2.027J9.06F200.
N1800G1G40X13.363Y-20.129F400.
N1805G0Z5.0
N1810G28G91Z0M19
N1815G30G91X0Y0T7M6
N1820G0G90X-8.767Y-7.322S3800M3
N1825G43Z5.0H7M8
N1830Z-4.5
N1835G1Z-5.633F29.
The reason for the slow feeds before the D23 is that it is finishing the bottom of the feature without cutter comp before the G41 D23 is called to do the wall pass.
John.
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Good :) So the code is good as it is.. That is what we like to hear! I took months reading anything and everything I could find on cutter comp. Pleased to see it was not tilting at windmills.
Thanks
Brian
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Just looked at the Fanuc 16MB manual and it also has three dimensional cutter comp (hope i'm not opening a can of worms here!!)
I'll quote from the manual:
"Three Dimensional Tool Compensation (G40,G41)
In cutter comp C, two-dimensional offsetting is performed for a selected plane.In three-dimensional tool compensation, the tool can be shifted three-dimensionally when a three dimensional offset direction is programmed.
Start 3d cut comp:
When the following command is executed in cutter comp cancel mode, 3D tool comp is set:
G41 Xp_Yp_Zp_I_J_K_D
Xp: X axis or a parallel axis
Yp: Y axis or a parallel axis
Zp: Z axis or a parallel axis
When cancelling 3D tool comp mode and tool movement at the same time:
G40 Xp_Yp_Zp_;
or
Xp_Yp_Zp_D00;
When only cancelling the vector
G40;
or
D00 "
John
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No can of worms here.. I am doing 2D not 3d.. If you would like to have 3d comp you will need to use your Cam system... :)
Thanks
Brian
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You're welcome Brian any time. Just looking forward too the new release, it will be great to have the cutter comp ;D
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Yeah... I need to get some work done for this OEM and I can dip back into the code again :) I hit a stone wall and needed to start over! As soon as I have this OEM done I am going to start murging the Rev 4 code with the test rev that I made. If that takes a month or less I would be shocked... This is going to get nasty :( O well it should be very good when it is finished ;).
Thanks
Brian
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Sounds great :) To have something on a par with Fanuc or Heidenhain etc that is open source is just amazing ;D
John
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Some ruff update info?
Happy New Year!
Rainer
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Maybe it's too early...
May I be the next one to ask again when it will happen? ::) ;D
:D Konrad
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Looks like Mach3 4.0 may miss its first anniversary party.
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Looks like Mach3 4.0 may miss its first anniversary party.
Maybe.... But it'll be worth the wait....
Regards,
Ray L.
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I had a chat with Brian at the Cabin Fever Show and he mentioned that testing will start this summer.
He's working on it and I do not expect any news before the end of the summer or fall.
It's a heck of a complex system and unlike other programs early public beta testing cannot really have any value.
It works... or it will be torn to pieces 8). We have to give him time to make it perfect.
Till then we have something which works rather well.
Cheers
Rainer
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Looks like Mach3 4.0 may miss its first anniversary party.
Maybe.... But it'll be worth the wait....
Regards,
Ray L.
While rev4 Not done
wait....
Wend
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You have to LOVE programmer humor
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Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days.
Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic.
LOL.. sorry I have to ask.... any status updates? Came across this post while looking for info on lathe functions of Mach. Please be genital if this has been beat like a dead horse. I don't frequent these forms much.
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Please be genital if this has been beat like a dead horse.
freudian slip or ? Sorry, this thread brings out the humor in all of us ;)
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Please be genital if this has been beat like a dead horse.
freudian slip or ? Sorry, this thread brings out the humor in all of us ;)
genital... LMAO... didn't catch that one... stupid auto correct!!! ;D I guess it could have just translated it to "don't be a d**k about it" :D Man that's funny! OK I need sleep now... deprivation is getting to me. :o
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this thread brings out the humor in all of us ;)
:D ::) ;D
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Seems like V4 is dead, before ever seen the daylight :'(
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Its not dead, just taking a lot longer to do the total rewrite than was anticipated ;)
Hood
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I have changed Mach3's Gcode interpreter to output all moves
in machine position .
Does this mean that we'll no longer be able to jog to position, zero all and run a program? If that's the case, how do you jog to position on the sheet and run the program from there? Something we do every day in plasma cutting as we're rarely working with full sheets.
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I am presuming this is internal to the way Mach looks at its and works out its position, you can still offset no problem :)
Hood
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Its not dead, just taking a lot longer to do the total rewrite than was anticipated ;)
Hood
At least you didn't say "a little" :D
Is there any cautious estimate about the release?
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I wouldnt ever give an estimate even if I knew ;D Brian is the only one that could say.
Hood
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OK, thank you anyway
Seems like i will have to look for another software, because i'd need G41/42 AND G68 in one program :(
If the smoothstepper would work correctly i could use my CAM-System on the control-pc for doing the offset, but it seems like the SS has it's own bugs again.
The machine is very heavy and fast, so there's not much error-tolerance
My wife would say: Same sh**, different day^^
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I am not a programmer so please forgive me if this is an ignorant question.
If there is a 'lock down' version that works, why would you continue to "tinker" with the old version (3) revisions and not focus resources on the 'new' version (4), since it sounds like version 4 changes the way the program "thinks" and undoubtedly will need to be debugged? Just curious.
Thanks
Dean
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Because there is no lockdown version where everything works.
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Just another thought the V3 needs to be fixed as best it can be fixed. NOT positive but I don't think the new V4 version will be a free upgrade so many will tend to stick with V3.
(;-) TP
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dear Brian
something that mach3 version3 don't have is that it should have an option that you can move the z axis while it is moving cause on the waterjet field this is a usefull option
as of now you can use the torch up and torch down but this does not remember where it was you have to adjust the z axis on every pierce
hope i am not mistaken
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Mr Jekran,
About moving the Z while machine is moving, that can be done already. I have a machine like that in a plasma cutter. While the machine is moving the X and Y axis, you can control by hand (I assigned 2 keys, one for up other for down) and I can control the Z during cutting. I do not have to control the Z every piece:
When to start cutting the Z axis moves down until a sensor is reached - then I set Z=0 in that position - then you have control using the up and down assigned keys, and you have a DRO with the Z position, where you can control your Z position and as Z was set to zero, you know your relative position.
If I remember correctly I used brains and the torch height control.
Filipe
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That is not a problem in plasma. The torch always knows where it is at. I think you need to work on your settings for the thc to keep from loosing steps.
Just a thought, (;-) TP
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do we have any news for the new version i think lot of us are hardly waiting for
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There is a new programmer starting in the new year, I believe, so it will not just be Brian having to do all that on his own. Things should start to move forward but I wouldnt be expecting it to be instant ;)
Hood
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Awesome! Surely it will take some time for the new programmer to get up to speed with Mach3, but this is very good news.
I think Artsoft should consider 2-tier pricing for home and business licensing. As a commercial user I would gladly shell out a few more bucks for this software. Think about it:
CAD package - $1000+/license
CAM - $1000+/license
machine controller - $160/machine with free updates?
And all I need for hardware are standard stepper drivers and a BOB? Go ahead and raise the price for us, but let the hobbyist enjoy for the nominal fee. The functionality and customization that Mach3 allows deserves a higher payout from those of us that are saving $30,000+/yr/machine on machining costs when compared to outsourcing the parts. And yes, my shop does save close to or in excess of $100,000/yr with 3 CNC's - no exaggeration. This extra money could then be used to improve and stabilize Mach3, and would be more than worth it to all of us commercial users - assuming that the product does improve as a result.
So, by all means, instead of releasing Mach3 rev4, release it as Mach4 with new 2-tier pricing. I would strongly recommend to the owner of my company to upgrade all of my machines to Mach4, paying the new licensing fee, without even thinking about it.
My 2 cents.
Other commercial users, please share what you think about this. I'm sure I'm not alone on this train of thought. I want Mach to be as good as possible and am willing to pay for it. Do you agree?
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It's been mentioned before that version 4 probably won't be a free upgrade.
I've purchased plenty of software over the years with "free upgrades for life". Funny that sooner or later, the free upgrades go away. While it works for a few years, at some point you need more revenue to pay for continued development.
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Sargon
The programmer has already done work with Mach, I believe, granted on a smaller basis but done it nonetheless.
Now your two tier thing, well that is happening, its already out but at this point its more or less the same programme, it does have a faster update, 50Hz rather than the 10 of Mach and has improved toolpath view. This version I think will be the same as Mach Rev4 when Rev4 comes out but as time passes they will diverge. Thats my understanding anyway.
Not sure if the parallel port will be catered for in the Industrial version, its not at the moment but in the future it may be in the shape of a plugin, I use the Industrial version on the Bridgeport as it uses the Scorpion controller card.
Hood
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Hood,
Is this version with the faster update rate available somewhere? Has it ever been released to the public? Somehow, I believe I had it downloaded somewhere, but can't find. But I think at that time they mentioned 20Hz. Is it now 50Hz?
Dan
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Dan it comes with Hardware, ie the Industry Controls hardware (MCB1, Scorpion Or Industry Controls SS)
Hood
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Hey there
Any news from the V4-front-line? :)