Machsupport Forum

Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: eugenejohn on March 16, 2009, 03:40:02 PM

Title: problems with Rotary Manual Pulse Generator.
Post by: eugenejohn on March 16, 2009, 03:40:02 PM
I am an elderly ex development toolmaker, I have bought a Seig X3 Milling machine and have converted it to CNC with a kit, and the MACH3 program
I have been learning how to use the Mach3 program and I have machined several small parts using Mach3 and a C11G breakout board.
However I have come up against a problem with the MACH3 program, which is driving me to tearing out what is left of my hair.
I fitted a Rotary Manual Pulse Generator (MPG) to control the Z movements.
The supply for the MPG to 5V and gnd and the A and B terminals to inputs 15 and 17 on the breakout board.
I also set the Cal setting to 1 & 100. The problem that I have got is that instead of the head moving smoothly
 in response to turning the wheel the head moves up and down in jerks, whichever way the MPG is turned, and nothing I can do in MACH 3 will change it.
I ma beginning to wonder if MAC3 has been corrupted. Please can anyone help me.
Best wishes to all.
Eugene.
Title: Re: problems with Rotary Manual Pulse Generator.
Post by: Hood on March 16, 2009, 03:50:40 PM
Go to Function Config menu then Calibrate MPG and go through the calibration steps one at a time and press calculate before you move to the next. Also remember to press save after you have completed the steps, the third step is not really needed but you can do it if you want.
Hood
Title: Re: problems with Rotary Manual Pulse Generator.
Post by: eugenejohn on March 16, 2009, 04:39:41 PM
Thank you for the input Hood but I have already done what you suggest with no result.
Title: Re: problems with Rotary Manual Pulse Generator.
Post by: Hood on March 16, 2009, 04:43:35 PM
Can you please attach your xml, you will find it in the Mach3 folder, it will be named Mach3Mill.xml if you are using the standard Mill profile if not then it will be whatever you have named your custom profile. You will need to copy it to your desktop then rename it to something like eugenejohn.xml then attach with the additional options button on the reply pabe.
Hood
Title: Re: problems with Rotary Manual Pulse Generator.
Post by: eugenejohn on March 17, 2009, 07:32:01 AM
Hood,
Thanks for your offer to look at my xml of the MACH3 system that I am using.
 It might take a day or two as I have a seperate computer dedicated to the milling machine
I downloaded and printed out all the 180 odd pages of the instructions for MACH3
and I have been through the settings over and over again. I have come to the reluctant conclusion
that I must have a faulty MPG unit as it works but only to jerk up and down.
Please let me know if you agree
I will post the xml settings in a day or two.
Regards,
Eugene.
Title: Re: problems with Rotary Manual Pulse Generator.
Post by: Hood on March 17, 2009, 08:56:18 AM
It could be a faulty MPG but only a scope would show you whether that was the case or not.

Hood
Title: Re: problems with Rotary Manual Pulse Generator.
Post by: eugenejohn on March 18, 2009, 02:45:21 PM
Thank you Hood for your offer to look at the XML page of my Mach3 program ,please find attached
Regards Eugene
Title: Re: problems with Rotary Manual Pulse Generator.
Post by: Hood on March 18, 2009, 03:02:36 PM
I see two problems in the XML, the first is you do not have the MPG enabled. Obviously this must have been enabled for you to get some movement so I am presuming you have done that recently.
Second problem I see is you have Chanel A set up to Port 1 Pin13, this is a problem because you also have your Z Limits and Home switches asigned to that pin. You can do a few things here, firstly you could possibly wire all of your limits on each axis in series and that way you would only use one Input or another way is you could add a second parallel port to your computer and set the MPG up on that, if you draw the 5v from the computer to power it then really there is no need for a second breakout board.
Hood
Title: Re: problems with Rotary Manual Pulse Generator.
Post by: BClemens on March 19, 2009, 05:24:37 AM
Eugene, When you calibrate for one click of the MPG, how many clicks show up in the box? If you see more than 'one', you could very well have a noise issue in the MPG wiring. Also, after going through what Hood is telling you, try another calibration and don't spin the MPG for fast but just turn it as you normally would then try velocity only in the jog MPG window - top one, and see if that makes a difference. You should see 10% or something low for good slow control.

I've had a heck of a time setting this one up due to similar problems but I fought it on my own without asking for help here - you're ahead of the game already!

Bill C.
Title: Re: problems with Rotary Manual Pulse Generator.
Post by: Hood on March 19, 2009, 05:43:37 AM
Bill, I think it is normal for one click in the MPG Calibration to show as 4, it certainly always has for me and I presume this is for the same reason that an encoder on a servo motor that has 2000 lines will be 8000 pulses as far as Mach is concerned, so a 100line MPG will be 400 pulses.

Hood
Title: Re: problems with Rotary Manual Pulse Generator.
Post by: eugenejohn on March 19, 2009, 05:55:19 AM
Hood,
I get 1 pulse for 1 click, but 9.9**** something for continous movement.
Also thanks for your input Bill
Eugene.
Title: Re: problems with Rotary Manual Pulse Generator.
Post by: Hood on March 19, 2009, 06:21:05 AM
Eugene,
 First I will go through the calibration, please dont take offence, just want  to make sure we are on the same page :)

 In the calibration you click on the call detent button then move the MPG one click then press calculate. Then Cal Max Speed button, turn the MPG as fast as you can then press Calculate, I usually ignore the last step (transition ). Once you have done these steps make sure you Save before you exit.

So you are getting 1 in the detent box when you move one click? I always get 4 on any machine I have done however I have the same make MPG on each machine. Would be interested to hear what others get as I think you should see 4 but maybe not.
Hood
Title: Re: problems with Rotary Manual Pulse Generator.
Post by: eugenejohn on March 19, 2009, 08:52:24 AM
Hood,
Certainly no offence taken, I am only too glad to profit from others experience, such as yourself.
I am at home now, but I plan to go to my workshop tonight as my computer to control the mill, is away from my house,
and the computer has not got internet access. I will try your suggestions and let you know tomorrow.
Eugene.
Title: Re: problems with Rotary Manual Pulse Generator.
Post by: Hood on March 19, 2009, 08:54:52 AM
Eugene,
 did you sort out the pin sharing problem I mentioned earlier?
Hood
Title: Re: problems with Rotary Manual Pulse Generator.
Post by: eugenejohn on March 19, 2009, 03:36:01 PM
Hood,
Sorry Hood the power supply on this computer suddenly 'Popped its Clogs' and died, It was very annoying as I had only bought it a few weeks ago.
Anyway Maplin exchanged it for a new one, so you can see that I have been too busy to check Mach3. I did notice however that the operator tab has two lines marked Brain and Brain control or something similar, are these the same as the calculations on the Jog, if so is it possible to alter the settings in there,
Regards,
Eugene.
Title: Re: problems with Rotary Manual Pulse Generator.
Post by: BClemens on March 19, 2009, 04:00:43 PM
Hood, I have always gotten 4 and sometimes 5 when I calibrate. But, I have been told by the vendor of this MPG that I should see only one pulse per detent and 100 pulses per revolution. Also, in the set-up pages, it is set for 1 and 100.00000, not 4 and 400.00000 as per the set-up directions for this MPG. The settings and calibration mentioned to Eugene were from my experience in setting up this MPG for smooth operation without the jitters mentioned in the OP.

Also, the multiplier means nothing with 4 or 5 pulses per detent for the MPG. Step jogging must still be used for an exact setting of a DRO.

Bill C.
Title: Re: problems with Rotary Manual Pulse Generator.
Post by: Hood on March 19, 2009, 04:18:17 PM
Eugene
 No these are Brains which are a utility in Mach which you can use to do all sorts of fancy things :) The menu that you will find the Cakibrate MPG  is the Function Configs menu, not the Operator.


Bill
 Thats good because what I was thinking is that if Eugene is getting only 1 when he does one indent then it may be that Mach is not seeing the pulses from the MPG properly and likely the route of his problems.

Hood
Title: Re: problems with Rotary Manual Pulse Generator.
Post by: eugenejohn on March 21, 2009, 03:34:19 PM
Hood.
Thanks for your help I have got the problems with the MPG sorted now. I set the counts per unit to 10 and the velocity to 1000 This was after an afternoon spent trying different setups, I finally got the head movement to agree with the screen.
I have a different problem now. How do I save the Mach 3 setup screens? at the moment, although I click the apply button each time I leave a screen it still reverts back to the old setting when I return. Sorry to ask you something so simple as this. But I am a newbie!
Regards,
Eugene.
Title: Re: problems with Rotary Manual Pulse Generator.
Post by: Hood on March 21, 2009, 03:56:51 PM
Which screen are you meaning?
It should save and will save to the xml after a restart of Mach.
Hood