Machsupport Forum
Third party software and hardware support forums. => Newfangled Solutions Mach3 Wizards => Topic started by: RICH on January 31, 2009, 07:00:35 PM
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Ron,
I finaly got some time to try out Copycat which you breifly went over at Cabin Fever.
It's "KOOL".
How do you get the jog shuttle to appear? Does it work?
Using manual jogging and the most sophisticated of pointing devises ( a tootpick and the a $2.00 laser with tin foil to get the dot )
you end up with something pretty kool as shown by the attachments.
It's rather quick once if you get the hang of it.
RICH
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How does this work, Rich?
Dave
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Dave,
You just add x,y,z values at different points and then tell Copycat what kind of moves you are making and it writes
the gcode. You can edit the gcode at anytime. Here's an example for the KooL:
1. Click new teach file
2. x & y =0 z=.1 then click rapid move .........G0 X0 Y0 Z.1 START
3. X=.1 Y=0 Z=.1 " G0 X.1 Y0 Z.1 START OF "K"
4. X=.1 Y=0 Z=0 Z FEED 10 feed move G1 X.1 Y0 Z0 F10 MOVE Z DOWN
5. click Start Arc now move to mid point of the arc click 2nd point
now move to end of arc click End arc
Copycat now provides the code for a G2 or G3 move
6. Just keep putting in the values for the different points and defining the moves.
Note that i used G90 / absolute distance mode as i was just "manually" moving to points along the profile and entering
the values from my X & Y external to Mach DRO. Thus always progressive positive coordinates to deal with.
POINTING DEVICES:
The toothpick was used as a pointer ( cheap and dirty).
The laser dot could be used as a pointer ( not as accurate as the laser pointer because of dot size generated).
Probably need around a nice .005" hole in the end of the laser instead of the .010" out of round hole put in AL foil.
There are a few tricks on it's use that i want to try out which would make finding an odd shaped profile easy.
A scaled cross haired microscope will do the trick, but again need to fool around with what i have.
I didn't try using the video mode where you could use a camera. Bought a Radio Shack $20, works, but need to modify it for better resolution and adjustable distance focusing ) which could give .001 accuracy.
INPUT VALUES:
What would be nice is to have two MPG's set up one for the X & Y and just scroll around to move the axis's.
Couldn't get the jog shuttle to come up, thus the manual movement. Would be nice if the values came from
Mach's DRO's. Need to add that i don't know how or if a Mach update will affect the Copycat ( ie; lead in rules ).
BTW, didn't try Mach TEACHING, but it's use may not be the equivilant of what Copycat can do.
Maybe Ron can give the status of where the wizard is or will go.
What can this be used this for?
1. With a good pointing device you can measure.
2. You could use it to to learn Gcode
3. You could visually create the gcode of a part profile ( reverse engineer it ).
The above come to mind and surely there are others.
I need to fool around some and check the difference in time it takes using Copycat instead other
methods. Think it is quicker! Just another thing to add in our your bag of tricks.
As usual, a quick and dirty, tutorial would be nice. Maybe the above will surfice. Maybe when i have some time i will
do one or you can if you wish.
Copycat is "KOOL" ! Better than some programs out there that you pay money for.
As usual......more than you prabably wanted.........but didn't see anything written about it,
RICH
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Well thank you Rich, I always appreciate the length in detail that you provide as it helps a newb like me understand things that much more.
I kind of doubt that this would be useful to me as I can draw/trace in cad fairly quick now but this was definitely a slick little wizard and caught my eye.
Thanks you again, my friend- :)
Dave
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Dave,
Spent more time typing than fooling with Copycat. ;)
RICH
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Hi Rich, is this wizard in the latest Mach release?
Could you please post the file.
Thanks
KTM
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I have Version R3.042.020 and it is its own wizard called "CopyCat"
You do have to have a license for the NFS wizards to use this one
Hope that helps-
Dave
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Glad to hear you like CopyCat.
You should not need the Jog page, CopyCat allows the jog functions to work- at least all the keyboard jogs. I dont have an MPG hooked up, but it ought to work, as should the Shuttle Pro. Ill go check it out with my ShuttlePro.
INPUT VALUES:
What would be nice is to have two MPG's set up one for the X & Y and just scroll around to move the axis's.
Couldn't get the jog shuttle to come up, thus the manual movement. Would be nice if the values came from
Mach's DRO's.
You are missing something here- the whole point of CopyCat is to get the direct input from the DROs. You jog around with the keyboard until you are at a point, then click the button for the kind of move you want- rapid or feed. CopyCat reads the DROs and builds the code.
Note the important difference between this and Brians Jcode plugin. That one records every move you make with a jog. CopyCat only records the points you select, so if you have to jog back and forth until you hit an exact point it will only record that point, not all the moves until you got there.
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Very cool wizard Ron- :)
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Ron,
Need to revise my posting. Got it sorted out. Need to tweak the video camera to increase magnification.
The keyboard works. Thanks for the reply.
RICH
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For anyone following this thread. Here is an improved video camera. Can jog around and locate with in say +-0.002 with an inch of clearance to the piece. Should you decide to change camera settings while in the wizard, or do something you "may" loose the camera and jogging but seems like a reset takes care of it.
RICH
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Ron,
What does reset do or not do in CopyCat?
RICH
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The lower left corner has the standard mach e-stop or reset button. Its a plain button, probably should have made it the common red image button, then it would be more obvious.
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Ron, Sent you a PM
Rich
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I was wrong! the reset button was supposed to be the standard reset, actually it is 'reset feed override'. I simply selected the wrong entry on the list in screen4. Il get a fix out for that.
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Hi Ron,
I got a manual of sort put together for CopyCat. It would have been further along except got hung up on
creating a circle. If an arc was done then couldn't do a circle / if a circle was done then only circles could be done and no arcs. The circle box will not light up. Hmm..... maybe you can shed some light. I have some comments
and will post them for your thoughts.
Attached is the manual for night time reading.
The manual and future updates will be put into the members docs as a new topic.
RICH
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I will have a look tomorrow. Ive been on the road, I will get home later today.
thanks for the effort on the manual, Im sure it will be helpful
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Rich, thanks for the manual, I was just using Copycat last week. I too was using a video camera and could locate items within +-.002".
Vince
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Vince,
Did you try using the full circle?
RICH
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Very good Rich and Thanks! I have said it before and will say it again I'm sure. Great group of guys here and this just proves it. Some don't relise what an effort some put into helping others. I do.
Thanks Rich,
Brett
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This looks to be a great new wizard. And good job Rich with the PDF.
I use a spindle mounted camera for setups etc a lot on a mill. Very accurate and a great aide.
Very often I use it together with the "Circle Centre" wizard by German Bravo to map out the holes on an existing
bracket or job so as to reproduce it. Holes that are typically too large to "guess" the centre of.
Wouldn't it be great if CopyCat could incorporate a centre finding feature or be able to switch between the two wizards.
Silly idea? Is it possible? What do you think?
Greg
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Vince,
Did you try using the full circle?
RICH
What's the full circle? I was using it to locate the outline of a part and the screw holes. I did not have to make any circles.
Vince
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I am working on adding a probe function into CopyCat. It will let you find the center of a hole, and the edge of a part. I should have something ready in a few days.
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Ron
Thanks for the response.
I presume a probe function would not allow for the centre finding of a hole using a camera like the Bravo wizard does.
Greg
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Hi Ron
Here are some comments / suggestions and others please chime in.
1.SCREEN - would be nice if some of the buttons were moved around
such that the video screen had its owne place when opened.
- maybe increase the other window sizes
- a real rough screen showing this is in the attached file
2.Is it possible to have a "delete" last move button. Once you start an
arc you need to complete it. ( you can edit the code but i am lazy )
3.Full Circle - darned if I could get it to work " per the help info". Still wondering if it's even needed.
read other comments below. The light never comes on , but,...you will see that you
clicked the full circle if you look closely at the box.
4.Bug? - If you do a linear / rapid move and then an arc then forever you can only do arcs and line.
If you do a linear / rapid and a full circle then forever you can only do circles and no arcs.
Seems like a broken switch in the code.
5.Probing - YES a nice feature worth doing. If you look at the "videos" there is one showing an automatic
centering routine which is realy slick. Don't know what Ron has in mind. Depends on how
you do it.
6.THE BIGGY - The first questions is........What do want copycat to do or go as a program?
It would be slick if you could go to another wizard and pluck their generated code at any time.
Thus if you move to a point and if you want to do a circle, drill routine, etc just click a button
and you could get that code and paste it to the the teach file and continue on.
Sounds easy, but.........
Currently if you want to do the above :
While in copycat, edit file, then open another file generated by a different wizard, copy / paste into
the copycat / teach file, save............BUT......need to edit the pasted in file some.
May be better to just add a comment at a point.
So if you had the above, CopyCat now becomes an even more very powerfull tool appealng to users who may
brush off using it.
RICH
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GREG,
Right on! CopyCat could become the wizard tie-in along with is current good feature.
RICH
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Thanks for the notes.
I have never played with a video cam. I think I have one around here, Ill dig it out and try a few things.
Screen design is tough- there is already to much stuff on this screen, and the organization is not the best. I really need to learn to use a draw program so I can generate better buttons, and Id like to make 2-state LEDS to make some displays easier.
Delete last move might be hard, but I can simply add a cancel button for arc or circle so you can get out of it.
I remember having trouble getting the full circle/arc stuff to work right. I though I had it, but its been a year since I did all this. I will do some testing and see if I can fix it.
I was thinking about a second screen to put the probing stuff. Maybe that would also be the place to do the video window. You could click to the second screen, do your jogging or probing until you had the machine wherever you wanted it, then return to the main screen to select the object button.
I have also consideerd putting all the setup stuff, like feeds, spindle control, etc on another screen. It would be kind of a startup screen, but you could go back to it if needed. It would give me more room on the main screen to make it neater.
I will do some experiments, maybe post some test version here.
I do not think your 'biggie' is possible. The way the VB subsystem works in Mach each time it is invoked its a fresh start, and its not possible to use functions form other wizards. I think you can do what you want with a simple comment- use CopyCat to collect the base points, then where you want to later insert a block of code just place a comment- (add bolt circle here). Then when you have built your base program go to an editor and drop in the other code. Not as neat as being able to jump in and out of other wizards, but it can work.
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Ron,
I can draw anything you want in CAD. I just never fooled with the screen designer ( i will / want to, but just have to manny irons in the fire ).
A cancel button would be fine to cancel an Arc move.
You can get a full circle ( very close circle ) out of the arc: ie
G1 X0 Y0 feed move
start arc
G1 X1 Y1 is 2nd point
now for the last move use X=1.0001 and Y=1.0001 (or -.0001 from the start / .9999 )
end arc
Just a work around.
Radio Shack sells a USB video camera for $19 ("GIGAWARE" and it works if you don't have one). I have
some high resolution ones but they will not work. Was trying out the XBOX control last night. 8)
Hmm....wide screeen TV monitor, game control, comfortable chair.....using CC can turn out to be very
relaxing! ;)
I would prefer to have the video screen as i have shown it. Just my reasoning, but, it keeps what you need to
do what CC was originaly meant to do all on one screen. The feeds want to be kept on the main screen along
with the DRO's. Besides just picking points, you may want to actaully be doing a complete code file.
Going to another screen breaks your thought pattern / may be a distraction. These are only suggestions
for kicking around. Everybody works differently, I just like Chocolate better than Vanilla.
BTW the tab brings up a blank partial screen.
I figured the biggie wouldn't work but at least we know. That said, then CopyCat stays as first intended.
RICH
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1.SCREEN - would be nice if some of the buttons were moved around
such that the video screen had its owne place when opened.
- maybe increase the other window sizes
- a real rough screen showing this is in the attached file
This is my second page to accommodate the video window.
I do not have a probe but use the spindle mounted camera a lot.
So hence I can do away with the probe section. That leaves me a bit of room.
This most certainly won't suit everybody but is the ducks nuts for me. ;D
Greg
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Nice Geg,
Are you going to post the screen file?
RICH
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Nice Geg,
Are you going to post the screen file?
RICH
I don't want to stomp all over Ron's work here. ;)
It is one thing to make screen mods for my own use, it is another to post them up.
Without Ron's permission, I better not.
Greg
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I think a whole bunch of ya are just conspiring to make me go try my hand at
the screen designer. ;) Fair enough, but like a fine wine nothing before it's
time. ;D
RICH
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Rich, if I can do it, I think you'll be an ace at it- ;)
Dave
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Dave,
Been meaning to sit down and fool with it, but got a number of irons in the fire,
like finding a new job, so first things first. I am done tomorrow at current workplace,
and start a new job on Monday. But plan on starting at another in a feew weeks or so.
Ever feel like your a yo-yo!
And just when i figured on how i was going to play all day long and enjoy my hobby! ;D
I don't know what's wrong with the world any more, don't they realize we work to play. ???
RICH
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Sorry to hear about the ups and downs (pun intended), my friend, this economy has been wreaking havoc with everyone... >:(
Dave
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Ron,
I just bought a probe, will copycat support it or is it just for lasers and cameras?
Rich
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Yes a probe can be used to pickup accurate points. That was added recently so be sure you sue the latest version which is on this forum, not the one in the mach install