Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: aggie_67 on July 19, 2006, 11:11:26 PM
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Have finished populating all my boards and tried to spin a motor. Thats when I ran into problems; the engineer in me says to start at the front and work my way step by step. I have no electronic experience but as a chemical engineer feel I follow directions well and am some what good at problem solving? Not as good as when I was younger but not ready for the home yet.
Have learned to make a simple CAD program, converted to g code and it runs (dro move and tool path shows proper movement.) Have the following questions:
1. On the diagnostic page I have red on the Ref A, B, & C which I can not get rid of.
2. On the motor Tuning & setup I can not get a value to stay on the "step pulse." It is 0, says it should be 1-5. I then type in a new number, save axis values, but when I go back to check it has defaulted back to 0??
3. When I check the pins on the computer Parallel Port with MACH3 screen on but nothing running I get the following values;
Pin 3 & 4 are 4.058 and 4.424 volts.
Pin 24 is 4.9 volts
Pins 1, 2, 3, 10, 11, 12, 13, & 25 are 0.043 volts
Pins 22, & 23 are 0.013 volts
All other pins are 0
Have a scope (Tek 465), not sure how to use it or if it works properly (bought off ebay) but I can't see any activity on any of the pins using it.
Running on an old computer, desk top, but processor speed is only 750. Many posts say have to have at least 1000. Could this be the problem, I though the slower speed may make it miss steps but would still run?
aggie_67
Open for suggestions?
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sounds like the port # isn't set on the ports and pins page also one of the pages has a estop pin which will have to be changed to active low if it's not hooked up. The step pulse at zero should be fine.
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mrmatt68, appreciate your reply.
Port #1 is set at 0x378, the default value. Have checked my computer and the LP1 I/O range is 0378-037F. Everything matches up to MACH3 instructions so feel comfortable there.
Estop is set at active low, had that answered in a previous post when the reset will not turn green and the g code would not run. I am getting the g code to run.
Did notice when I was verifying computer setting on LP1 that the port setting is set at "never use an interupt." Is this correct?
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Mine has never use an interupt and it works fine :)
Your 750MHz computer should run Mach, I ran for a while on a P3 450 with no problems.
If you dont have A. B and C axis set up then you wont be able to reference them so the LEDs will always be red, so thats not an issue.
Not sure what voltages you should see at the port but I would suspect you will only see a voltage when that pin is actually doing something, but then again maybe not, I will have to test this out.
What exactly is your problem? is it that your motors wont turn but the DRO on screen moves? What drives and breakout are you using?
Hood
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OK I know about as much as you when using a scope and I got mine off eBay as well ;)
Does yours have a test signal point to verify that the scope is working.
I have just tried mine out and here are the settings I found work best
Y Amplitude0.1v/cm TimeBase 0.1ms/cm and also make sure its on DC.
For a direction pin you may either see a straight line on the scope or a blank screen, when you change direction it will change to the opposite of what it is.
For the step pins you will see a straight line then when you move the axis you will see a series of "waves".
Hope this helps.
Hood
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Hood, Yes problem is motor won't turn but DRO on screen move.
I have a Pminmo 4 axis Interface 4X072105 going to 3 single axis THSTEP25 microstepping driver boards.
Reading another post question was asked what the reading were when the driver test was ran. I get 24,200 Pulses per sec, 498 CPU speed, Apic Timing NO READING,Short 34 6961 and Long 47 0875. Don't know what any of that means but maybe someone does.
My interface board does not have optic isolators, could I have damaged my computer motherboard. What are the symptom when that happens??
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aggie
I think you would be best testing the port with your scope, as I said I know very little about using a scope but I managed to get a very clear reading by setting as in above post and putting the probe to the different pins on the disconected end of the Parallel port cable and jogging the axis via the keyboard. If you get similar readings then your port would seem to be OK.
Hood
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Hood,
Appreciate you reply but as per my orginal post I can not get any readings with my scope? Tried all setting, went back and tried your settings again...zip!
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Do you see anything at all on the scope?
Another thing you could try is putting a voltmeter between ground and one of your direction pins on the parrallel port and use the keyboard to jog one way then the next, you should see about 5v one way and about 0v the other.
Hood
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Aggie,
on the first mach screen, under "operator", make sure the control offline option doesn't
have a check mark beside it.
Glenn
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If you go to the diagnostics page what is your time in Int. dro reading?
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Brian,
Good to see you back, has your wife delivered yet??
Time In Int dro is cycling very rapidly between 8.0 and 9.2 on the dedicated MACH3 computer, it is an older PII 750. Not absolutely sure of decimal settings as the cycling is very fast. Also installed MACH3 on my internet computer (2.4 cpu) to make sure the dedicated computer wasn't the problem, it is cycling between 3.5 and 5.0.
Another question I do not have a handle on yet is "enable," know what it's for, it's working on my TSTEP25 drivers, my interface board hardwires it to pin 14 on the parallel port. Have tried configuring it on the Ports and pins screen, at which time the red led show up on the diag screen under enable. But I can't find nor understand how MACH3 controls it or enables the drivers when I run a program therefore I removed configuration so red led's would disappear.
Glen,
The control offlne does not have a check mark.
aggie
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No baby yet...
Well I have good news, your driver is running good :) You shoudl be getting steps out of the printer port at this point... If you send me your XML I will test it here and tell you what it going on.
Thanks
Brian
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Hood,
When I jog back and forth the votage stays constant at 4.248 volts , strange to me is that it doesn't deviate even a thousandth of a volt??
aggie
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Brain, Need a little help, what is a XLM?
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well I am certainly no expert but mine goes from 0v to 4.98v on each of the axis direction pins, sounds like your port is not working properly. Just out of curiosity are you measuring on the port itself or at the end of a cable? if its the cable is it possible you may not have a straight through cable?
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you will find the XML file in the Mach directory, if you are using the Mach3Mill profile that is the xml you want to send.
Hood
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Brian,
Ignor the file I just sent you. Dawned on me after I sent it that it was from my "internet" computer, want to send you the one from my dedicated computer. Will have to transfer to disc and resend.
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I found your problem :)
You need to change your port number to 1 on each one of the pins.. after I did that I could see the LEDs changing!
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Brian.
Great call on the port number, I was using tunnel vision, set the pin numbers but didn't think about going to end of row and setting port.
Now if you can get me some help on the enable question (see 11:56:36 am post) as I'm sure that needs an answer before any steppers turn??
aggie
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The enable output is on the ports and pins output tab. if you set the pin to be 14 and the port to one every time you have the machine enabled the output will turn on.
Hope that helps
Brian
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Brian,
Still can't get drivers enabled. Not sure of the terminology, when you say "every time you have the machine enabled the output will turn on" my question continues to be how do you "enable the output"??? Does this mean start the g-code running or what??? I have configured the enable on the ports & pins output signal screen. Used enable1, enable is checked, port #1, pin # 14, and active low checked.
Another point I need to have clarified; does MACH have a Parallel Port Reference for the DB26F pin allocation. Couldn't find one in the documentation. Using one from PMinMO but would rather use one from MACH3!!!!
aggie
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When the reset button is blinking the machine (computer) is not enabled therefore the drives should not be enabled. I beleive this is a safety feature. HTH
Regards,
Sid
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Sorry about that, it works the way that Sid explained.
I don't understand the "Parallel Port Reference for the DB26F pin allocation" ... the Port number is set on the first tab of the ports ans pins dialog.
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Sid and Brian,
Appreciate your sticking with me on this. Feel like I am at one of the communication classes the company used to send us to back in the 80's.
Start back over, when I go to the diagnostic screen I have a red light under "enable 1" on the outputs. In my world a red light means a problem which must be corrected, not sure if that is true in MACH3 because I also have 3 red lights under Ref A, B, & C and have been told don't pay any attention to them. Should the "enable 1" red light go off when the drivers are enabled?? This is what I have been trying to do, unsuccessfully! It stay on all the time, g-code running, etc. Of course the steppers aren't spinning.
Sid, reset button is not blinking, had to get it green before the g-code would run.
Brian, used the term "parallel Port Reference for the DB26F Allocation" since that was what Phil titled the page, thought it was a common term. It is a chart that shows the purpose of each pin on the parallel port DB26F plug. Why I question it is he shows pin 2 as X Dir, pin 3 as X Step, pin 4 as Y Dir, pin 5 as Y Step, pin 6 as Z Dir, pin 7 as Z step, pin 12 as X,Y,Z Home, pin 13 and 15 as X,Y,Z + limits, and pin 18-25 as ground. But in the MACH# documentation 5.4 on page 5.3 shows X Y Z Dir pins as 3,5,7 and X Y Z Step pins as 2,4,6?
aggie
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Can you jog your motors? I thoughyt you said you could. Have you loaded your G-code by going to the "Program Run Screen" and then clicked the "Cycle Start Button"?
The red Enable 1 LED should not be a problem, it is just a red LED (instead of a green LED). It shows the same thing as the reset button (i.e. when the reset button blinks the enable 1 LED should NOT be lit, when the Reset button is Steady, the enable 1 LED SHOULD be lit up RED). When the machine is enabled, MACH will respond to MOVEMENT commands when disabled it will not. BTW- active low is not really a normal way to configure the enable pin- who set it that way? Manufactureres recco,emdation?
Furthermore, this enabled status can be connected to an output pin in the DB25 connector in order to energize/deenergize other peices of equipment (i.e. the driver boards which control the motors)
This enable is like the main circuit breaker on your house with a remote control. It is a switch that shuts off all the subsystems. How you implement this 'switching is kinda up to you.
Most ppl define a pin which will carry this enable signal and connect it to their driver board. That way, when you push the reset button, the computer will no longer respond to movement command requests and your driver boards will also deenergize creating a safe "parked" situation in which to do something like (load a new part on the table for cutting or maybe change the cutter on your router).
The pin configuation in the mach manual doesn't have anything to do with your machine, it is just an example. Every user must configure Mach to work with the driver boards they are using. YOU need to tell mach what pins are controlling what axis as defined by your driver board. This info usually comes in the manual of your machine/driver board
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Sid,
Appreciate your prompt reply.
Yes, I can jog the dro's on the screen. Have never got the stepper motor to move, lock up or anything using MACH3. Feel they are OK as when I physically enable the THSTEP25 driver board by grounding the enable terminal they do lock up.
Not being scarcastic just specfic, I load the g-code by going to File, then Load g-code. I then run the g-code by going to the "Program Run Screen" and clicking "Cycle Start Button.."
Your description on the red led may solve part of my question. I have been asking over and over agian how to make the red led go out which I equated with having the motors enabled. If I understand your description, when the red led is on the motors are enabled. I would have thought they would turn green or turn off, to me red means a problem?
Question on my understaning of active low. In the driver set up instructions it says "you may now bring Enable Low, applying power to the stepper motors," and when I hard wire the enable to ground the stepper locks up. I interpreted this as active low, should it be active high? I am using THS Engineering THIS25 driver boards.
Understand your description of pin allocation now. In my case the drivers don't descide, the interface board does. All the driver board want is either a low or high. The interface board then sends it to a pin.
Am going to move everything from my old computer to my internet one (2.4 cpu) and take readings directly from the computer connection (in case I have a cord problem."
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Hey Guys,
Forgive me for jumping in and if this doesn't apply, please disregard. Unfortunately, my only experience is with Servo's but in my setup useing g320's, if I do not get my 5v reference voltage from the mach computer, my system will not function either. The reference ground for the step and direction is not there. Everything appears normal but the motors would not spin. Could this be happening here???
Bill
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Do you have a link to the breakout board (interface board) you are using?
Hood
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I think you need to connect the enable to an output pin on the parallel port (via breakout board) and set this pin number in Mach, this should then enable the drives.
Hood
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Aggie,
The enable loop in Mach is just a switch. It is designed to provide a signal via one of the pins on the DB25 parralell port connector which in turn will either open or close a circuit. Definition Active High = when the swich is closed the enable circuit is active (this is the way a switch and a lightbulb in your house works- turn the switch to the ON position and the light turns on. Active Low = when the switch is open the enable circuit is active- this is the oposite of the previous example- when the switch is in the OFF position, the Lightbulb is lit/On.
Mach is just telling the switch to turn on or turn off- it's up to you to then do with that control circuit whatever it is you need to do to enable your drives.
In MY case I need a 5V signal runing to my Driver board to enable my drives/motors. I have 5V entering a normall open relay and when I click the reset button on Mach, it sends a signal via the parallel port pin to the relay, closes the relay and allows that 5V to go to the Driver board. When the Driver board sees the 5V it will then energize and accept commands from the M3 program and start turning the motors. In YOUR case it sounds like you need a GROUND to enable your drives. Hopefully from this description you can figure out how to do the wiring so by clciking the reset button it will close a switch (relay) which will then pass the ground through to your driver/interface board.
I hope that makes sense- it is hard to talk about wiring with words-
Sid
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Sid,
Understand communication difficulties, should try it from my end: talking about wiring when you don't know the subject and more important when the software didn't fully install??? In my case I have 2 computers, one an older one which I dedicated to MACH3, no internet connection, etc so there would be no way I could get a virus.
After all my problems, install MACH3 on my main computer (newer one) and the enable function works great on this one. Now have to figure out how to get a full install back on the older one. The file size and number of folders were the same for both machines but the old computer only had 705 files where as the new one has 717? Hope this is the problem and not the age of the computer but at least now I know how enable works, etc.
Also found out something weird, once I got the screen showing enable, etc I wasn't getting the voltage to change on pin 14 (enable pin.) I had chosen pin 22 for my ground (halfway on the ground pins 18...25.) But when I chose pin 25 for the ground the voltage changed as enabled changed???
Will get back with everyone on outcome.
aggie
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Glad to hear you are making some headway!
Re: the pin/ground enable issue- are you measuring voltage on the cable or on the actual connector coming off the computer? If your measuring from the cable, you should be aware that some printer cables do not have all 25 pins connected since printers tradtionally do not use all 25 pins to transmit/receive data. Just a thought. Good luck!
Sid
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Good thought, but was coming directly from computer port.
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It's been an interesting day!!!!
Reloaded program on old computer and now the enable function works, problem though, can't get enough voltage to enable the driver. Need 5 volts and only getting 2.6 so packed up everything and moved down to my main computer.
After setting back up, the 5 volt led didn't come back on the interface board (voltage feeds back from x driver board.) While investigating found the x driver board plug on the interface board had come off the pcb tearing off two of the pads. Must have been from all the hooking and unhooking. At this point was closest to throwing the whole project in the garbage and buying a mill but then told myself wouldn't be any fun if it wasn't CNC controlled. So got out the schematic, wired in some jumpers, checked all circuits for continuity and tried again on main computer.
Enable was switching properly but still only getting 2.6 volts, not enough to latch enable. Don't know what happened but then all the sudden started getting 4.4 volts and enabled worked.
Then much to my shock the steppers spin. Not all gravy yet, appears to stop at certain spots in toolpath. Not sure if it's the stepper or what but big day today!!!
Couldn't have got this far without all your help, THANKS!!!!
aggie
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Good for you!