Machsupport Forum

Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: stringkilla on December 21, 2005, 05:43:07 PM

Title: My Two Cents
Post by: stringkilla on December 21, 2005, 05:43:07 PM
Well, it seems I've jumped in to cnc with my eyes closed, I mean to say, I thought it would be fairly easy to set up a small commercial machine. How wrong I am. I seem to be needing an endless list of items, and I don't think I'm finished buying stuff. Nobody I've worked with, in shops that have cnc machines, ever mentioned anything about breakout boards, MPG's, ModBus (what is that) or that pump thing I keep seeing. So, I purchase Mach 2, then upgrade to Mach 3. I have a screen that doesn't have buttons for Machine Co-Ord's or any of the ones next to it, only the LED's. I get the screen builder and find an empty window with a dropdown box with buttons that show me stuff I can't seem to use. I've been through the PDF manual, and can't understand half of the information contained therein. Oh My God, what have I gotten myself into this time!!!! I'm sorry for this rant but I think I really need some step by step help and advise. Is anyone interested in taking on a real green nooby?
Title: Re: My Two Cents
Post by: Brian Barker on December 21, 2005, 06:50:53 PM
I will do ll that I can to help you get this figured out. There are many things that you are not going to need to know:
1. ModBus is a way to add IO for running a toolchanger or MPG's and so on.
2. Macro pump is for running a macro all the time  (This is not needed most times)
3. Many of the other settings in Mach3
4. MPG is not needed

You are going to have to have the same screen as me... This will help me get you up and running.

Please tell me more about what you need to know and what you need to know more about.
Title: Re: My Two Cents
Post by: Vmax on December 22, 2005, 10:58:51 AM
Hi String, First you have to come up with a plan of what you want your machine to do and what you have to work with. List that plan here and then we can start to help you. I just finished up a complete retrofit of a Bridgeport Boss CNC mill. I felt your pain when I first started. But as you get into your project and with the help of all the fine folks here it will get much much easier as you go. Do one step at a time, Ask plenty of questions, finish it up and go to the next step, Repeat. Before you know it you will be done and will also know what  "IF GetOemLed(0) =(0) Then"  means too.   ;)  Terry
Title: Re: My Two Cents
Post by: japrenticeuk on December 22, 2005, 11:57:50 AM
Hi,

You don't mention the videos on www.machsupport.com. How have you found them? Your original post suggests that you are trying to start with the difficult things. The Using Mach3Mill manual does not cover the current screens (yet) but with the videos and Chapter 3 you ought to be able to get a good feel for things even before you connect the machine.

Do not despair - "One brick at a time" builds a spendid mansion!

John Prentice
Title: Re: My Two Cents
Post by: stringkilla on December 22, 2005, 05:47:33 PM
Heres my plan. I will only do 2d milling for now, until I learn more about this stuff. I want to be able to park my spindle at one place every time I want to go home. I want a safe Z when I move to home, to clear hold downs and anything that may be in the way. I want a place to start my milling that is suitable to my part shape. I have configured my motors and now I need to set my limit switches, but I can't do that until I get my breakout board and power supply. I have a K2cnc machine with a 14" x 25" work envelope, servo motors, Geko 201's, 1/2-10 lead screws. I will use a variable speed router for my spindle and be cutting mainly .125 - .250 Alum. and plastics. I have a ton of designs to mill, or should I say engrave. I will be using V Carve Wizard for my G code toolpath generator. So I guess that's it in a nutshell, what do you think?
Title: Re: My Two Cents
Post by: Vmax on December 22, 2005, 11:34:58 PM
String that is a good start. I recomend the Breakout board from Bob Campbell. It is a very well designed board that won't let you down and good service to boot. Do you have a picture of your machine we could look at? Are your servos mounted and wired yet? What type of cabinet are you using to house the electronics? Are your limit switches mounted and ready to go? What scheme of limit/Home switches do you have?    Terry
Title: Re: My Two Cents
Post by: stringkilla on December 24, 2005, 07:13:25 AM
Hi Terry, yes my motors are wired into a very sturdy box with the Geckos, and I should soon have my breakout board with power supply after the holiday. I have been successful at configuring the drives and doing trial xyz movements. I did not, however, set up my limit switch as of yet.
Title: Re: My Two Cents
Post by: Vmax on December 24, 2005, 10:42:10 AM
String I am confused If you have everything where you can make the sevos move why do you need a breakout board. It would seem that to make the servos work you already have that part wire to the computer???? Is everything wired to a computer?  Terry
Title: Re: My Two Cents
Post by: stringkilla on December 26, 2005, 09:31:46 AM
Terry, this is where my problems begin. The electronics part. Everywhere I see members, and users having their limit switches hooked up through powered breakout boards, so I must follow suit, right? So just how is the breakout board wired up. I need to see photo and real simple schematics. I'm severely electronically challenged. Can you help me with this?
Title: Re: My Two Cents
Post by: Vmax on December 29, 2005, 08:30:10 AM
String did you have the geckos wired to the computer to make them move to test? Do you plug the cable into the printer port on the computer. I am assuming you have bought a kit version of your machine is that correct? If you did odds are that a breakout board is part of your electronics kit and all you need to do is wire your limits/home switches in. Did the kit come with a manual?  Terry
Title: Re: My Two Cents
Post by: stringkilla on December 29, 2005, 04:52:41 PM
Terry, I purchased a K2cnc machine. It came in modular form, all I had to do was put the X axis frame on. It also came complete with control box prewired with Gecko 201's, a power supply and wired motors and cables. I currently have the printer port connection and usb. A breakout board did not come as part of the original purchase. From schematics I've seen on CNCzone I have all the right stuff to wire and configure my limits and homes. I believe I've let fear take hold. There's  stuff I don't know a whole lot about, and I'm hesitant to go in and do it, if you know what I mean. Unfortunate for us nooby's a manual is not provided by K2cnc even as of yet, so I'm pretty much on my own here(thank God for cnczone and this forum or we noobs would be hard pressed to get any information at all). Now I need to know how to wire up an E-stop button, or would a charge pump be better?
Title: Re: My Two Cents
Post by: Vmax on December 29, 2005, 06:29:08 PM
String you need to workout a setup to do both . Each serves a different function. The ESTOP is for when all goes to heck and you need to shut down the entire unit dead cold. The Charge pump is a function to isolate the drives and assessories when Mach does NOT have control like when your computer is booting up or shutting down. Or when you are using your computer for things other than Mach. Terry
Title: Re: My Two Cents
Post by: stringkilla on January 01, 2006, 11:14:24 AM
Terry, I have a cnc4pc breakout board as I've said well it has a simple straight forward diagram for the E-stop button wiring, just wire to screw terminals. I will follow that, but I have purchased a 22mm button and here's my problem, is it supposed to come apart every time I push it? Between the contact block and the screw in cylinder in which the buttom is held there is a keying lever that locks in the button cylinder. In the locked position it works fine, but if it's in the other position it comes apart when turned to the right. Does this sound like a real switch type thing to you?
Title: Re: My Two Cents
Post by: Vmax on January 01, 2006, 04:03:29 PM
That push/pull key tab is to hold the switch blocks in place. If you pull it out, the blocks will come loose. You put the switch blocks in position and then push the tab in to hold them in place. The Estop is designed to push in and lock in. To release the switch turn the switch button to the right 1/2 turn and it will unlock and return to the on/out position. One of the switch blocks should be NC and the other NO.    Terry
Title: Re: My Two Cents
Post by: stringkilla on January 02, 2006, 09:59:48 AM
Well I wired and tested and rewired and it still doesn't work. The breakout board idea for me was a bust. I could have gotten a wiggy board or I I've blown it out. I don't know enough to know either way. So it's back to basics, no limits, no E-stop, just the software dimensions to guide my gantry. Maybe sometime in the future I will know enough to put all this stuff back on line in working order. Thanks Terry for all your advise and help. It was greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: My Two Cents
Post by: Vmax on January 02, 2006, 06:21:43 PM
String if you want to try again I will helpto sort it out. Let me know and I will work up a list and a drawing for you to follow. You will have to describe in detail exactly what you have to work with as far as your electronics package for the machine. We can whip it.  Terry
Title: Re: My Two Cents
Post by: stringkilla on January 03, 2006, 09:42:10 AM
Terry, I paniced and cut the wires off to the box I mounted the breakout brd and power supply to. I then re wired the Geko's to the port out receptacle. I will try today to reconfigure them and run trials.
Title: Re: My Two Cents
Post by: Vmax on January 03, 2006, 11:38:49 AM
String, what do you mean when you say Port Out Receptical?  Is this something that your printer cable hooks to and you wire the drives to ?
Title: Re: My Two Cents
Post by: japrenticeuk on January 03, 2006, 12:36:31 PM
StringKilla

I hope this does not seem too harsh but please do read to the end:

This group has many very experienced software and hardware people but, so far as I know, not one of them has psychic powers. We just do not know what hardware you are working with. The K2CNC site shows a very nice 14 x 25 router table but no indication of motors etc. You mention Gecko 201s and servo motors. This does not sound right.

Will you take 30 mins and write a list of the part numbers of every component you have in your kit or have bought for the project, where you got it from and (if at all possible) take snapshots of things that are difficult to name and how you have it all hooked up?

I am sure it will all fall into place when everyone is "looking" at the same stuff and able to talk the same language.

Best wishes

John Prentice
Title: Re: My Two Cents
Post by: stringkilla on January 03, 2006, 03:20:08 PM
String, what do you mean when you say Port Out Receptical? Is this something that your printer cable hooks to and you wire the drives to ?
In my OEM box, it has a printer cable plug, where, in the box the Gecko's are wired. ( D something 25) The type of plug the printer cable uses. And I in my panic srewed up the hotkey area of Mach 3. What keys are 32 and 33 need to find them to correct hotkeys. Now my motors don't move as before I started this addon, all they do is screem and bang, but no movement. And I can't seem to change the motor tunig values. Boy have I screwed up.
Title: Re: My Two Cents
Post by: Vmax on January 03, 2006, 04:08:20 PM
OK I have found a picture of what you have. Have you made any modifications inside your OEM box?  We will go 1 step at a time.
Title: Re: My Two Cents
Post by: stringkilla on January 03, 2006, 06:32:13 PM
Well what I did in there was to disconnect the Gecko's and run the wires through to the breakout board enclosure box. I then wired up an on/off switch to the power cord for the power supply board, also from cnc4pc. I then plugged it into a power strip, turned it on and promptly blew a breaker. It seems I wired the on/off switch wrong and since it was a lighted one, I fried that. I then discovered that all I need do was to wire straight to the power supply. It was then I realized that nothing was happening, and, since then I've tried to re wire the Geko's back to the printer cable output and get back to where I was before I tried the addons. I hope that adds a little to my lament. Also take a look at my other post Breakout Board Operation Questions, there's more bad news. Oh man I'm in deep!!!!!!! :-[ :'( :'(
Title: Re: My Two Cents
Post by: Vmax on January 03, 2006, 07:45:18 PM
OK just stop where you are and do not do anything else.
1st  What is the Part Number for the cnc4pc board is it a C3 or C6?
Title: Re: My Two Cents
Post by: stringkilla on January 03, 2006, 09:08:57 PM
This board is designated a #C10 off the packing list.
Title: Re: My Two Cents
Post by: Vmax on January 04, 2006, 09:31:40 AM
String, OK good

So you have

1.  (1) C10 Board
2.  (1) 5v power supply board
3.  (1) Estop switch

Do you have the charge pump board?
Does the estop switch have (2) contact blocks with it?
What model Geckos do you have?

Terry (:~)=
Title: Re: My Two Cents
Post by: stringkilla on January 04, 2006, 10:27:24 AM
1- Yes
2- Yes
3- My E-stop has only one contact block.
No I did not buy the charge pump.
Gecko 201's
My motors say,Deepgrove 253 oz. 3 amp. 3 volt, 1.9 degree, 20k per inch.
Title: Re: My Two Cents
Post by: Vmax on January 04, 2006, 10:43:21 AM
String. OK

1.  If you were to unbolt the Cable connector from the OEM case and bolt the C10 card back in its place using the same screws you took out would the cover fit back on the OEM case ? You can measure this to tell or simply try it to see.

*** If you do not understand what I am asking please say so, it is very important that we understand each other. ****
Title: Re: My Two Cents
Post by: stringkilla on January 04, 2006, 11:51:42 AM
If you mean replace the OEM connector with the brk. brd. Then the answer is, no it would not fit. But I think I see what you're driving at. If it did fit it would be right next to the Gecko's and the wires would make more sense??
Title: Re: My Two Cents
Post by: Vmax on January 04, 2006, 02:14:35 PM
String,  Please stand By we are formulating a plan..  (:~)= Terry
Title: Re: My Two Cents
Post by: Vmax on January 04, 2006, 07:21:02 PM
String did you get hooked up with Brian?? One on One will be your best choice. He can fixed you up with no problems. I am way down in Florida, but will help if needed.  (:~)= Terry
Title: Re: My Two Cents
Post by: stringkilla on January 04, 2006, 08:44:53 PM
Yes I did, we are trying to create a local help group. something I hope will catch on here and go international. I am in the process of setting a meet and greet with him real soon. You are right, a one to one is just what I need. But don"t stop offering insight and assistance, I greatly need it, OK. You have been one of my only sources for quality information. Thank you, really.
Title: Re: My Two Cents
Post by: Vmax on January 04, 2006, 11:32:49 PM
String also let Brian know that they are powering up part of the controls with power from the USB port he may be able to use the 5v to power up the C10 board instead of having to add in the extra power supply. Let me know if yall need anything. (:~)= Terry