Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => Mach3 under Vista => Topic started by: amron on April 04, 2023, 11:38:23 AM
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Hi and please don't lough at me. I'm totally new to Mach3 and I would like to learn. I've purchased a TB6560 stepper motor controller board and set it up, at this point just to try and operate it. as you can see on the attached pic, it has only one stepper motor connected to it and I would like to see if it works. the board is connected to a usb port on my pc with windows7 32bit os.
I would like to ask for your help telling me what shell I do in order make the motor spin. of course I'm aware that if it's all good, I'll purchase two more motors as I intend to make a light cnc milling machine.
Of course, if more info needed, I'll be happy to provide.
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Hi Amron,
Welcome to the forum.
I think the first thing you need to do is read the Mach3 manual. Don't worry too much abourt the bits you don't understand at this stage (we all started out knowing nothing about Mach3) then come back with any specific questions you may have.
One thing to consider at this stage is that Mach3 is now obsolescent and you should perhaps be looking toward the future by using and learning Mach4.
The Mach3 Manual can be downloaded here: https://www.machsupport.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Mach3Mill_Install_Config.pdf (https://www.machsupport.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Mach3Mill_Install_Config.pdf)
Tweakie.
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Thanx for your reply.
As per your suggestion to use the Mach4, the main reason that I'm using the Mach3 is that it was supplied with the TB6560.
does the Mach4 supports the TB6560 as well? the other reason is that I thought the it's more advanced and more complicated than the older version and as you can tell, even that is (in the meantime) Chinese to me. my goal is to set it up step by step and that's the reason that I want to try operating the motor in order to see that basically it operates and from there to move on.
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By all means, stick with your copy of Mach3 until you have a working machine. I still use Mach3 from time to time.
Tweakie.
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According to your advise, I've downloaded the manual and began to read it. I've seen that was told that there is a need for a motion controller board. can I assume that the TB6560 serves as this controller board? I'm sure that my questions might seem ridiculous to people that are experts in this, and I have to start from zero. I was looking for a forum that deals with the TB6560, but unfortunately, found none. if there is such a forum and/or any other source of information, please let me know. right now, I'm connecting the DP25 on the TB6560 to a usb port on my pc. I hope that I'm doing right.
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If your interface is USB to LPT, you're out of luck.
For your board your computer need to have ordinary parallel port.
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Amron
Put 6560 into the search feature on this forum. there are plenty of references.
Graham
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Hi,
Mach, does not matter whether Mach3 or Mach4 requires a motion controller.
In the earliest days of Mach, Art Fennerty wrote a parallel port driver that converted Mach's (that is Mach the application) trajectory into streams of accurately
timed pulse necessary to drive motors like your TB6560 driver board. This piece of software resides right at the very heart of your PC, if fact it sort of elbows Windows
out of the way while it does the business.
Many, many software experts and engineers said 'will not ever happen, Windows can't work that way'....well Art proved them wrong. There are very few people on the planet today whom
know exactly how Art achieved it, and all these years later I've not seen anyone who has matched it or even got anything to work like Mach3's pulse engine.
This was the start of the hobby CNC revolution, because hobbyists could use cheap software to run machine which had hitherto required very expensive dedicated controllers.
Not that this was a complete tour-de-force...there were and are still some hiccups. Mach's pulse engine (as distinct for Mach the app) can only run on Windows 7 or earlier, XP
being the favorite at the time and 32bit at that. It would not run or run poorly on laptops. Worse it seems that some PCs did well an yet another even a better seeming PC would not
work. Any software on the PC other than Mach would often totally screw Mach's pulse engine.
None-the-less many tens of thousands got their CNC start from Mach3 and Machs parallel port engine.
Then came external motion controllers, most famously the UC100 by CNCDrive and the Ethernet SmoothStepper by Warp9TD. Both companies are still manufacturing their
respective devices to this day. Mach (the app) still runs on the PC while the pulse steams are generated by the dedicated hardware in the motion board. This relieves the PC
of generating pulse streams, a function at which it was never very good at. It also meant that you could use a 64 bit OS's like Windows10 and laptops because Mach (the app) is fine with
that, but the PC does not have to support Mach's parallel port pulse engine.
The UC100 is connected to the PC by USB and its output is a DB25 parallel port socket. You might ask well I have a USB to parallel adapter...why does it not work?.
An adapter might work with a printer but its not cannot generate accurate pulse streams, ie IT IS NOT a motion controller. The UC100 has an FPGA inside and that
makes it way WAY WAY smarter than any USB to parallel adapter. If a UC100 appeals, and many thousands use one, then buy a genuine one, not some BS
Chinese made copy off Amazon or Ebay. A genuine UC100 is about $120USD, if someones peddling one for less than that stay away from it, its likely fake, sometimes
you can still smell the chop suey on them.
Another alternative that was invented at the same time was the Ethernet SmoothStepper and has been a bit of a standard ever since. I have one and have used it and Mach4 for eight
years. It is Ethernet connected which has better noise immunity than USB and less latency. It also has three parallel port output sockets, ie 51 IO's whereas the UC100
has only one port output with 17 IO's. Lastly the ESS runs at 4Mhz whereas the UC100 runs at 100kHz, making the ESS highly suitable for high resolution servos and encoders.
As you might have guessed it's more expensive too, at $190USD.
There are other motion controllers, like the Hicon by Vital Systems and the CSMIO by CSLabs, but $600 and 600Euro respectively. The PoKeys 57CNC is well priced at around $150
as are some of the UC100's bigger brothers like the UC400 and UC300. There are also some cheap ($20-$30) Chinese made USB controllers called variously RnR and BitSensor....something, something.
They are all clones of each other and in my opinion are all BS. There are plenty who use them and many will object to my characterisation of them....but my opinion is what it
is, whatever someone else thinks. If you choose one of the later...good luck to you....you may find some support but I will not be among them.
All-in-all there are enough motion controllers that you should research and understand, each with advantages and disadvantages. The US and European brands are well supported and
have a very positive commercial history and are my recommendation.
That raises the last question about Mach3 or Mach4. If you want to use a parallel port then Mach3 is really the only choice. There is a Mach4 parallel port called Darwin (written by
none other than Art Fennerty) that has a $25 license fee....but its limited in certain realtime features like lathe threading, THC etc. If you chose a Chinese made motion controller
they are limited to Mach3. There is one Mach4 ready Chinese made controller, XHC, avoid like the plague......its so buggy everyone who has ever bought one has thrown it out.
If you choose a UC100 or an ESS or a PoKeys...or in fact any of the European and US brands they can run Mach3 OR Mach4.
As I have said I've used Mach4 for eight years and its superb, and still growing whereas Mach3 development ceased eight years ago.
Once you leave the emotion aside the try reading this thread:
https://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php?topic=42891.msg278176#msg278176 (https://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php?topic=42891.msg278176#msg278176)
A motion controller like an ESS and Mach4 and your CNC hobby is going places, and you'll still be using then in ten years which actually make them a cheap
purchase. Lesser brands or software are likely to disappoint and result in you having to buy the real thing later.
Craig
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joeaverage, thanx for the very comprehensive referring to my question. after reading it and more trying to dig into it, I would like to something regarding the matter and first, I would like to emphasize that it's not written from an argumentative point.
I've came across a device called "breakout board" and from watching a video on youtube I've got the impression that it serves as a connection to the PC's usb port. however, on the video I've seen that it is wired to a stepper motor driver, while I want to use it with my existing TB6560 3 axis stepper motor controller board (the blue one, if it means something). as you know, the TB6560 has three outputs to the motors - A+,A-,B+ and B-. is there a way to use the breakout board with it? if so, could you guide me to where I can find the wiring diagram how to connect them? I'm asking since the cost of the board is significantly cheaper that the UC100 that was described by you, not to mention the other options. as you can tell, this is my very first attempt in this area and I'm doing it entirely as a hobby, not seeking at this stage to achieve the highest results, just to make it work.
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Here is a pic of the board.
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Actually that's more than a breakout board, it's also a motion controller. People on here have used them but often have problems. To start with it needs a plug in for mach3 or mach4 - does the documentation say this is available with the unit?
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To start with it needs a plug in for mach3 or mach4 - does the documentation say this is available with the unit?
Could you please explain what is that plug?
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I could just tell you but then you'll have another question, and another, and another... Instead, why not carefully read the Mach3 manual and do your best to learn, and if you still can't work it out come back. CNC is complicated, you have to learn for yourself.
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I could just tell you but then you'll have another question, and another, and another...
Silly me, I thought that the purpose of forums is to share knowledge... thanx for correcting me.
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Hi,
that is an RnR board, one of the many Chinese made clones and exactly the type I recommend against. They are as you say cheap,
and to my way of thinking is the only good thing about them. It's your money, time and energy, and thus its your choice.
Good luck.
Craig
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Hi,
those boards or ones very like them, some are green, some blue, some red...etc have been on the market for about ten years.
There must have been a clever Chinese engineer, or maybe a group of them, whom designed the first boards and wrote the plugin. The plugin is
.dll file that lives on the PC that adapts the numeric output of Mach3 to the motion board and provides the firmware for the board. At the time
it was quite the trick.....but it was never developed further. That engineer, or group of them, have long since departed the scene and now these boards
are made by half a dozen different Chinese companies all copying the original design.
The problem is they don't have a clue how they work. If they even have a copy of the plugin it is just the object file, not the source code.
If you asked the manufacturer of the board to fix a bug....they can't. They don't know how it works and they don't have the source code
to work out how it works, much less the talent to implement any changes.
Why would anyone bother investing all that time and effort into working out how something works and even improving it only to have the other
five Chinese companies rip it off? This is where the Chinese practice of pirating technology really comes crashing down......they have created an
environment where innovation and improvement cannot be re-paid, and therefore there IS NO innovation and improvement.
There are copies of the .dll file floating around and I have no doubt you'll find a working copy eventually. These boards miss on things like lathe threading, THC,
laser ops, backlash comp and even probing is handled in a non-standard manner and works only with modified pirate copies of Mach3.
There is no Mach4 plugin for these boards, and because of the piracy problem I mentioned above, neither will there ever be one.
You want the forum to share information....well there it is, I'm just not sure you will like it.
Craig
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I could just tell you but then you'll have another question, and another, and another...
Silly me, I thought that the purpose of forums is to share knowledge... thanx for correcting me.
I'm very happy to help people who help themselves and you will see I have done that quite a lot on this forum, but that doesn't extend to providing tutorials on the basics that can be found out from the manual.
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joeaverage/Craig - thanx once more for the comprehensive info. seems that the better solution is the UC100.