Machsupport Forum

Mach Discussion => Mach4 General Discussion => Topic started by: KatzYaakov on October 03, 2021, 02:29:59 PM

Title: c axiss move while z axiss comand
Post by: KatzYaakov on October 03, 2021, 02:29:59 PM
pleaase if some ne matt such streng proble
i have machine with 6 axiss( not sioltanic)
but with c and z there very strenge beheviour
if i move by jog all ok
but if i move by comand the z axiss
c also move and even give me alarm over soft max
what can be?
this 2 axiss are not master slave not any conection
Title: Re: c axiss move while z axiss comand
Post by: joeaverage on October 03, 2021, 08:09:57 PM
Hi,
try an explicit command like:

g0 z10 c0
g0 z0  c0

I'm wondering if the Gcode interpreter requires a specific C coordinate.

Craig
Title: Re: c axiss move while z axiss comand
Post by: KatzYaakov on October 03, 2021, 10:31:06 PM
tanks alot ill try
have any ide why its shuld act like that?
i use version 4.2.0.479
Title: Re: c axiss move while z axiss comand
Post by: KatzYaakov on October 03, 2021, 11:07:23 PM
i test in my laptop  i found very strage behevior when motors are sighn as reverse
when you try move by command its move other motors or change direction...is it bug that some one know or talked before?
Title: Re: c axiss move while z axiss comand
Post by: KatzYaakov on October 06, 2021, 03:55:42 PM
craig
its help but i cant always be sure all nc file customer use will have all axess movment
in my pp i can control and add,but in other??
Title: Re: c axiss move while z axiss comand
Post by: joeaverage on October 06, 2021, 08:43:50 PM
Hi,

Quote
its help but i cant always be sure all nc file customer use will have all axess movment
in my pp i can control and add,but in other??

No I don't think you can stop it by programming Mach, I suspect its a shared issue between Machs trajectory planner and your motion controller.

The only time I have observed it is when an un-commanded or referenced axis's Direction signal will change state, but even if it does change state who cares,
the axis will not shift UNLESS there is also a Step signal.

What I found was that Machs output, being essentially numeric is active high. If however your motion controller output or BoB output is naturally active
low then an un-commanded move MAY OCCASIONALLY STILL experience a change of state. I found that if I reversed the active high/active low circuit arrangement without reversing
the direction of the motor that the natural state of the motion controller/BoB output matches the un-commanded state of Mach the issue largely disappeared.

Craig
Title: Re: c axiss move while z axiss comand
Post by: KatzYaakov on October 08, 2021, 02:49:39 AM
change of state from minus to plus i also had ,but i think i solved it when put all motors in plus direction(uncheack the reverse cheack box)
and change direction when need only in servo drive
i have some point to agree with you (but not sure 100%)that its some thing with pokeys and mach because i didnt see such in my laptop
that its work only simulation
i saw this only when connect real pokeys card
but still i cant be sure and its big problem ,that axiss move without any command
in some cases i even get over soft max error on the axiss i didn't command ,for example when c its on "00" and its got that bug comand
in  minus ,i got c over max (c its like z "0" is max)even i didn't comand it at all
thanks
Title: Re: c axiss move while z axiss comand
Post by: KatzYaakov on October 24, 2021, 02:53:10 PM
now i got deaper problem
the axses move even without any axes command ,only by start spindle rotate then axis move ,its totally crazy
is some one from mach can give support???
sorry cant upload here mp4 but any one want see i have video
Title: Re: c axiss move while z axiss comand
Post by: joeaverage on October 25, 2021, 02:09:03 AM
Hi,
electrical noise.

Craig
Title: Re: c axiss move while z axiss comand
Post by: KatzYaakov on October 25, 2021, 05:26:16 AM
Sure 100% not electric noise
Because as i told ,the axiss move by mach,you can see the comand to move ,the numbers move( about 1mm) its real move not loose position ,all corect ,but no one ask it to move
Its total bag only bag ,i don't know if its on pockey side or mach side but this bag sure 100% not noise
Title: Re: c axiss move while z axiss comand
Post by: joeaverage on October 25, 2021, 02:03:58 PM
Hi,
do yo have an MPG, noise on an MPG signal effectively causes jog moves.

Craig
Title: Re: c axiss move while z axiss comand
Post by: KatzYaakov on October 25, 2021, 02:17:18 PM
I have mpg wireless with the new version there the mpg wireless plugin
But as i told before its not noise
Because i see the movment on mach screen ,its not random movment without mach comand
The movment its something mach give that movment comand
Title: Re: c axiss move while z axiss comand
Post by: joeaverage on October 25, 2021, 02:32:47 PM
Hi,
try disabling the wireless MPG.......does the fault still occur?

Craig
Title: Re: c axiss move while z axiss comand
Post by: KatzYaakov on October 25, 2021, 02:34:28 PM
Maybe the plugin do it? Because noise for sure its not
Title: Re: c axiss move while z axiss comand
Post by: joeaverage on October 25, 2021, 02:41:41 PM
Hi,
electrical noise could interfere with the wireless and Mach would interpret the event as an MPG command.....so noise
is still a possibility whether you choose to believe it or not. If you disable the wireless MPG does the fault occur?

Craig
Title: Re: c axiss move while z axiss comand
Post by: KatzYaakov on October 25, 2021, 02:45:32 PM
Now its late here (21:45) so im not at work shop
But as i start this chat i had this problem with machine that have yhe plugin but not have the mpg
And on that machine i also have small not comand movment ,and same its movment comand from mach
Title: Re: c axiss move while z axiss comand
Post by: KatzYaakov on October 25, 2021, 02:48:44 PM
https://youtu.be/gtdX7FVaggo
I upload the video please watch
Title: Re: c axiss move while z axiss comand
Post by: KatzYaakov on October 25, 2021, 02:52:36 PM
https://youtu.be/lTUBX1y8ZFw
Here onther sample ( the machine without mpg) axes move while comand onther axes
Title: Re: c axiss move while z axiss comand
Post by: Graham Waterworth on October 25, 2021, 05:50:30 PM
Why are you so sure its not noise?

Depending on your hardware the position can be sent back to mach so it could be noise.
Title: Re: c axiss move while z axiss comand
Post by: KatzYaakov on October 25, 2021, 05:52:28 PM
How???
Mach dont have any close loop detection
I wish there where close loop or following errors detection
Title: Re: c axiss move while z axiss comand
Post by: Graham Waterworth on October 25, 2021, 05:55:02 PM
I use a CS-Labs IP-A and it feeds back to Mach3, if I move a motor by hand it updates the screen on mach3
Title: Re: c axiss move while z axiss comand
Post by: KatzYaakov on October 25, 2021, 05:55:55 PM
As i told before the position its corect ,if it was noise ,there where some mistake between what mach think then what really
But here no ,its all corect and this very small movment you see in video ,real happen
I use step/dir pokeys ,so no any part of close loop
Title: Re: c axiss move while z axiss comand
Post by: Graham Waterworth on October 25, 2021, 05:59:35 PM
So the error on the mach4 screen is also moved on the machine?
Title: Re: c axiss move while z axiss comand
Post by: KatzYaakov on October 25, 2021, 06:04:36 PM
yes
but its can make strange beheiviour
for example take one axis to his sof limit
so even you didnt comand this axis
you get alarm over limit
Title: Re: c axiss move while z axiss comand
Post by: KatzYaakov on October 25, 2021, 06:07:56 PM
i dont know if its conect to this problem
but all this start when i start use "home in position"
and i have 6 axiss on machine( only 3 are simoltanic)
before i used max 5 and always homing by sensor
but now i chanege
not think any reason this can make that error
Title: Re: c axiss move while z axiss comand
Post by: Graham Waterworth on October 25, 2021, 06:21:08 PM
Is the move only if you issue some command from Mach4?

If the machine is sat idle is there any random moving?

Are the axis DRO's true to the position of the machine after a random move?

What drives and motion controller are you using?

What version of windows?
Title: Re: c axiss move while z axiss comand
Post by: KatzYaakov on October 25, 2021, 06:23:51 PM
yes ,only when you give comand mdi or run gcode
yes the DRO show excatly real position
i use pokeys with servo motor caled Viechi its china made copy yaskwaw vry good
window 10
last ftp mach version
last update from site pokeys version
Title: Re: c axiss move while z axiss comand
Post by: KatzYaakov on October 25, 2021, 06:24:49 PM
if machine wait  in run mode but not move ,nothing happened no any movment happened by it self
Title: Re: c axiss move while z axiss comand
Post by: KatzYaakov on November 21, 2021, 03:02:06 PM
pass more then month , i sent all what mach support ask ,until now not even any help,why ? there no any one from mach can give answer?
Title: Re: c axiss move while z axiss comand
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on November 23, 2021, 04:45:46 AM
It may be worth while asking the question on the Pokeys section of their forum;  https://forum.prosim-ar.com/viewforum.php?f=61
It's not over active but it's a chance.

Tweakie.