Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => Mach4 General Discussion => Topic started by: donb9261 on December 29, 2015, 09:59:43 AM
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Gents,
I have done extensive testing of Mach 4 V2 on 3 machines. All running Win 10 PRO. Home will NOT work. Here are some things to ensure there are no interference's from Windows 10 PRO on Mach:
1. Make sure that Smart Screen is turned OFF. (MOST IMPORTANT) Mach will crash and stall. Fail to restart without reboot. In Control Panel go to Security settings. Find Smart Screen. Set to OFF. This causes issues when you shutdown Mach and do not reboot. Why? Because WIN 10 thinks Mach is an internet program. Go Windows.... Lol.
2. Set your App security to allow anything. WIN 10 Pro allows this. Home... Not so much. It is under user security.
3. The glorious Windows Defender App. You cannot turn it off directly. You must disable the service.
4. AVG Anti-Virus works fine and does not screw with Mach 4 V2. Most others do. They are too intrusive. Skinny is best.
5. Make sure you do NOT use compatibility modes. Under the program properties menu. Right click Mach icon.
6. Set in the program security settings to always run as admin.
As I complete the testing I will post more. But, overall the performance difference from XP, and 8.1 are leaps and bounds better. I think that maybe Billy got it right this time. But, the jury is still out. >:D
Don
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Thanks for posting the information Don.
Tweakie.
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Of course. Makes things simple if these things are shared.
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Not trying to throw fuel on the fire but....
PMDX has customers who are successfully running Mach4 with Windows 10 Home on
both laptops and on a SurfacePro tablet.
Due to the auto-update issues, we still recommend Windows 10 Pro over Home.
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You can of course. But industrial users should never trail the home edition. Its a control, not a PC.
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You can of course. But industrial users should never trail the home edition. Its a control, not a PC.
I guess I shouldn't say I'm in love so I won't. :-*
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Hi guys,
Just got a new computer and tried to download Mach4, but AVG (free version) keeps sending the Mach4 downloader to it's Virus Vault. If I disable AVG and run the downloader, Mach4 loads, but when I try to open/run it (with AVG activated again) AVG once again blocks Mach4 stating that it's infected with a virus!
Windows 10 Home 64 bit, AVG Free Version.
Anyone else having this problem?
Nick.
P.S Downloaded and ran Mill Wizard without any problem.
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run its as admin
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Your problem is with AVG, not with Mach4.
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Just got a new computer and tried to download Mach4, but AVG (free version) keeps sending the Mach4 downloader to it's Virus Vault. If I disable AVG and run the downloader, Mach4 loads, but when I try to open/run it (with AVG activated again) AVG once again blocks Mach4 stating that it's infected with a virus!
Windows 10 Home 64 bit, AVG Free Version.
Anyone else having this problem?
Yeah, AVG falsely detects Mach4 build 2872 as containing the Win32/Heur virus. And not just on Win10. I've confirmed with the Mach4 developers that build 2872 is *not* infected. So your choices are to either drop back to 2803 (which did not trigger AVG at least on my PCs), or disable AVG when you run Mach4. I've found that even if you tell AVG to let the program run, Mach4 will not run successfully. You have to disable AVG.
Bob
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it works ok if you put a exception in and install and run as admin
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To be honest i wouldnt run any av or program whilst using mach4 for production incase it halts the computer for user input.
DazTheGas
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Thanks everyone for their input. There's obviously a conflict between Mach4 and AVG and thanks to Bob, at least I now know it's safe to download and run.
Nick.
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yer it cost money for mach to get company's to put in exceptions.
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Mach4 is a software that has a unique feature over most others you may install. It creates the ability to automatically control the movement of external devices. That said, once Mach4 is installed the PC is no longer a PC. ANY software other than basic programs should NOT be installed.
If there is an internal Windows CPU lock in the middle of motion due to another program running you could not only crash the machine, but kill you. I have personally pulled way to many peoples body parts from machines that took this for granted.
I HIGHLY recommend a stripped install with only the essentials to run Windows and Mach. Internet should be manually connected and NEVER auto connected. Auto updates turned off.
Bottom line, with Mach 4 the PC is no longer a PC. It is a machine tool controller that just happens to use Windows as an operating system. You do not need Anti-Virus gents.
Good day. And Good luck.
Don
FuelCNC Engineering
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To re-enforce what Don has said – with Win10 you can only defer updates, they cannot be turned off and from recent experience they will cause problems. IMO it is always best that the PC running Mach is never connected to the Net, even momentarily (I was surprised at how quickly my PC could download updates when my back was turned).
Tweakie.
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The PC is always going to be a PC and the Software that runs on it needs to keep that in mind. Everyone else's Controller software don't seem to have that problem.
Just a thought, (;-)TP
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Most industrial systems that run on Windows based PCs are supplied as
complete systems that include the host computer, and a known version
of Windows. The computer is configured so that updates do not happen
without the vendor initiating them and if the user updates software
without permission, the warranty is void. This is because it is impossible
to assure correct operation of components and software that you have
no knowledge of or control over.
Mach4 is not, except for a few vendors like MachMotion, usually sold
with a computer and operating system as part of the system. This
means that it is up to the user to avoid unwanted updates or other
changes that may disrupt operation.
Windows 10 Pro is supposed to allow you to set it so that updates do
not happen automatically. I have been recommending this to people
who want to run Windows 10, but must admit that I have not personally
confirmed that it prevents updates.
Also, I strongly recommend that once a machine is configured and running
correctly, a complete backup of the software be created and kept in a
safe place.
Steve Stallings
www.PMDX.com
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Hey Steve,
I have 5 protos on Win10 Pro. The Auto updates do not happen if configured correctly.
Win10 Pro has so far given a better overall performance with Peripheral Attached Hardware.
You are correct that OEM's like me do not allow for Windows updates not for install of any programs not proven reliable with the CNC.
Baring all this, according to internationally accepted safety standards the control may run Windows but must be deemed a control and specific protocols must be included to keep operators safe during operation. This drives IT guys nuts but as I keep iterating, the PC used for CNC operations is a control. Offline PC's or a parallel PC integration is the surest way to keep safety and integrity of the system intact.
Don
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Yes Mach4 does not ship with an OS but IF you advertise that it can run on ANY Windows platform XP - W10 then it has to programed to except ANY of teh normal quircks found in ALL of those versions.
OR simply pick a version you plan to support and STICK WITH IT. AND only recommend a version that you have FULLY tested/verified to work properly.
(;-) TP
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Right,
Thanks to the advice on here, I've managed to download and run Mach4 OK (in demo mode) with AVG disabled, but now Mach4 will not accept the new licence code generated for this computer (yes running Mach4 as Administrator).
Once again no problem licencing Mill Wizard.
Any thoughts?
Nick.
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The license is tied to the PC ID. If you change pc's you need a new license.
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Log into your account at machsupport.com and you can generate a license for the new PC yourself.
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Thanks, but read my post again, I'd already regenerated a new code for this (new) computer.
Anyway, I ended up uninstalling and then reinstalling Mach4 and it then accepted the licence code that I'd generated earlier.
Nick.
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Hi
I just tried to load Mach4 V2 on my windows 10 pro machine and windows defender says Win32/Varpes.L!cl is ar trojan and has removed it. Mach4 will not load without this file. Is this really a virus or just defender thinks it is? I turned off windows defender and loaded Mach4 again and it runs fine. As soon as defender is activated it removes this file. Anyone have any suggestions?
Thanks Jan
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Hi Jan,
I've not had any further virus/trojan warnings with the latest Mach4 build. My issues seemed to revolve around a conflict between AVG Antivirus and Mach. Since that computer was bought specifically to run my machine using Mach and Mill Wizard, I've uninstalled AVG, but left Windows Defender active.
Nick.
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If concerned about Windows 10 updates, you can always try disabling the Windows Update service..
Allan
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you can only disable win 10 updates on pro not home
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On my windows 7 computer I was able to not agree to the Microsoft Licensing agreement and the Windows 10 upgrade went away. We will see if it stays gone.
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If you have Windows 10 Home you can somewhat limit it if you connect to the net
using WiFi and tell Windows that it is a "metered" connection. Unfortunately this
currently does not work for a wired connection.
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FYI I have been running my machine on a dell inspiron 20, model 3043, TouchScreen all in one PC for quite a while. I just put it in Airplane mode to keep updates and whatever from having access and it has worked for me. For a couple months I was running it full time
It is Windows 10 Home and I have not had a need to upgrade it yet.
I am using a PMDX 422.
For a qualifier, Today I am upgrading everything, doing all updates, so who knows it may not work again after today :)
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FYI everything still working if not better having upgraded.
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hi
i am just trying windows 10 pro and will probably remove the things suggested. i have been using mach 3 now 4 for a while and think letting windows update is usually a good idea. more important i use avg antivirus and that needs to update have never seen a mach problem that i could prove was related to avg. people say you dont need antivirus on a computer controlling a machine, however we have to get our gcode into the machine we do this by network or by thumbdrive from another computer that generated the code and these can have viruses so if you dont have antivirus do the math. one more thing i only connect the network cable for updates and pull it after wont update if not connected. just my 2 cents.
mark
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more important i use avg antivirus and that needs to update
Since Windows 8.1, I've changed to and prefer Windows Defender.
Use much fewer resources, and is much less intrusive than other anti virus options.