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General CNC Chat => Show"N"Tell ( Your Machines) => Topic started by: Jimster on October 15, 2013, 04:26:34 AM

Title: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on October 15, 2013, 04:26:34 AM

 I've just got my hands on a Bridgeport interact series 1. Currently it has a heidenhien TNC 150 controller. I'd like to upgrade the machine to mach3, but not sure where to start, or what it's likely to cost. If I did convert the machine to mach3, would I sill be able to use the jog wheel and joystick as a manual machine for quick jobs?

Has anyone here converted a series 1 interact? any help or pointers would be great,

Thanks

Jim

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: poppabear on October 15, 2013, 07:46:08 AM

Hey Jim,

On average, it takes 4 times longer, and 4 time more than you thought to do the machine, unless you're really experienced and doing this kind of stuff.

Yes, you can operate your machine via, Jog stick and MPG, it is a matter of bringing those signals in and doing something with them via: Brains, or MacroPump,
or a plugin.

First thing to do is see what is re-usable:

Check the Axis motors see what drives them, then find out if the drive that drives them is stand-a-lone drives, that will take a Step and Dir signal or Analog.
if step and dir, Mach3 and/or some external motion boards can drive them. If analog, then you gonna drop some cash on a Galil or the like.

Spindle Motor: if it is just an industrial motor (even if 3 phaze), you can use it, if your machine will be running off of 220v single phase, then you will need a VFD.

Where you get into MAJOR cash, is if you have to replace Axis motors and/or drives, or spindle motor/drives etc. Depending on the motor power you need (In/Ilbs, N/M etc.)

If you Have some pockets, AND you plan to make money with the machine, you will recoup your expense and be MUCH, MUCH more pleased if you just upgrade
your Axis motors to:  AC Servo Drives/Motors (I use Automation Direct for 1kw-3kw, and Yaskawa beyond that).  If your spindle motor is an industrial, it is defiantly worth your time to put a VFD to drive it, since it give you VERY precise output to the motor, (and you can set up things for like ATC's much easier with them also).

There are several companies that cater to the Mach3 crowd for retrofits/builds, these are just a few: CNC4PC, Homann Designs, PMDX.....etc.)
I use Automation Direct for almost ALL of my industrial supplies, since it is the "Walmart" version of industrial supplies for pricing.

Scott

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on October 15, 2013, 02:16:32 PM

If the axis and spindle amps/drives still work then I would say you would be best going with one of the external controllers that can control analogue amplifiers(drives) as that is what will be on if it is a Heidenhain control.
The Jog wheel that is currently on it may not be suitable, it will all depend on what the output is, often the Heidenhain used 1vpp rather than ttl. The encoder may possibly be that as well but I think on the 150's they will be ttl. You can however get a new MPG (Jog wheel) if it is 1vpp. same with encoders.

I have used the CSMIO/IP-A controller from http://www.cs-lab.eu/en/ and it is an excellent controller, the other two controllers (excepting the Galil Scott mentioned) are the DSPMC/IP from http://vitalsystem.com/portal/motion/motion_controllers.php or the kFlop with kAnalog from http://dynomotion.com/.

Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on October 15, 2013, 05:42:08 PM

Thanks for your replies guys.

The machine works fine at the moment, but there appears to be a problem with the serial port as I can't get it talking to my pc at all. I can enter a program directly and it works fine, so I can only assume the amps and drives work 100%.

I'm glad you've responded Hood, as a friend of a friend pointed me to this site, and said that you new an awful lot about converting these old bridgeports. Apart from CSMIO/IP-A, and the PC etc, what else would I require?

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on October 15, 2013, 05:55:22 PM

LOL I have only done one Bridgeport and it was an old BOSS stepper one that I totally gutted and fitted new steppers to. I then redid it all a while back but fitted servos, then I took them all off and sold the Bridgeport to make way for the Chiron :)

Regarding what extras you would need then I would say the CSMIO/IP-A and the MPG module would likely be all that is required as far as hardware is concerned. It will basically be remove the heidenhain and connect up to the CSMIO. Obviously it wont be as easy as that as you will have to work out what wires are what but if you have electrical drawings that should help a lot.
You will also need to find out what encoders are on the motors and what type of handwheel it has at the moment, if they are ttl ones then thats fine, if not you would need new. If you have a parts manual it may say, if not you can likely download the Heidenhain manual which should tell you what the encoder input to it is.
Hood

Title: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on October 16, 2013, 02:43:24 AM

Thanks Hood, I'll take a read through the manual and come back with stupid questions.

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on October 16, 2013, 06:24:55 AM

Do you know what version TNC 150 it is?
 Just looked and it seems some are sinusoidal inputs and others square wave.
Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on October 18, 2013, 05:45:12 AM

its a TNC 150B, does that help at all? how can I find out??

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on October 18, 2013, 09:28:23 AM

According to the Heidenhain manual the 150B is sinusoidal, the 150BR is square wave. So not so good for you if it is indeed just the B :(
http://content.heidenhain.de/doku/oma_controls/CD1/tnc/150/gb/22365623.pdf

Hood

Title: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on October 28, 2013, 12:25:37 PM

Hi hood, I'm still looking into all my options
Would I be correct in assuming that my servo drives are controlled by +/- 10V signal?
 Also would you know if motor encoders are incremental encoders with ttl 5V differential signal or if the servo drive has an encoder signal output with mentioned parameters?

Thanks

Jim

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on October 28, 2013, 03:19:33 PM

If your drives/amplifiers are connected to a Heidenhain 150B then I will presume that the encoders will be sinusoidal and thus no use.
 If however your control is  a 150BR then it will have square wave output encoders, whether differential or single ended I cant say.
Regarding +/- 10v, then yes that will be the control signal they take.
I dont know what drives/amps you have so cant really say whether they have encoder outputs but I would guess that they dont as it is really only AC Servo drives that tend to have them.

Hood

Title: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on October 28, 2013, 03:31:43 PM

Thanks again for getting back to me on this. Would I be correct in thinking it's the role of the encoder to report back the current position of an axis to the controller? Can the encoders be replaced for the correct type for a modern controller.

If you were me, ( or is it my only option) to replace my servo drivers too?

Sorry for all the questions.

Thanks

Jim

Title: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on October 28, 2013, 03:32:51 PM

I forgot to say its deffo the 150B controller which I have.

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on October 28, 2013, 04:37:44 PM

Yes you can replace the encoders with suitable ones.
The amplifiers will likely require a tach signal from your motors and if it is the type of DC servos I have seen that will be built into the motor (second set of brushes) So keep the tach and fit new encoders and you would be fine.

What make/model are the amps/drives?
Hood

Title: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on October 28, 2013, 08:00:52 PM

Sorry to be so lame, I assume the drivers and the amp are on the same board? I also guess these are the devices at the bottom of the cabinet? I'll take the side off an have a look in the morning

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on October 29, 2013, 04:25:49 AM

Yes thats correct, amps are what the older drives are, basically just amplifiers, ie they receive a voltage signal and amplify it to send a higher voltage to the motors.


Hood

Title: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on October 29, 2013, 07:19:39 AM

I've just took the side of the machine and the servo drivers are

Bosch Servo Drive Heidenhain Controller PN Z15-1-240V

Does this help at all?

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on October 29, 2013, 08:23:38 AM

Do you have any documentation on the drives at all?
Hood

Title: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on October 29, 2013, 08:25:12 AM

Sadly nothing :(

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on October 29, 2013, 03:09:46 PM

There doesnt seem to be much info around about them but I did find an extract from the manual which has some info.
http://www.pennineuk.com/library/pdf/boschZ15Manual.pdf

Hood

Title: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on October 31, 2013, 02:20:09 PM

Thanks for the info Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: zafarsalam on November 01, 2013, 06:16:39 AM

Hi Jimster,

I've been doing Bridgeport retrofits for quite some years. Have done almost a dozen BP's so far. Most of them were TNC145 based with Bosch Servo amplifiers and SEM DC servo motors. On the first one I did, I put Rutex 40A DC servo drives on original SEM motors, Mach3 parallel port based config and the original pneumatic speed change involving variable pulleys. Rutex are not in business any more. The next few I did were with replacing DC servos with AC servo (1 KW), replacing variable pulleys with fixed ones and putting in a 2.2 KW VFD for spindle speed control. On another one I used DC servo drives from cncdrive.com with SEM motors (don't forget to use the original inline coils with this setup). Another couple of machines with Smooth Stepper and AC servos. The last one with UC100 motion controller from cncdrive.com. For the DC servo drives (both Rutex and cncdrive) I had to replace the encoders with TTL ones.

I guess the most cost effective way to retrofit these machines is to use DGS drives from cncdrive.com, VFD with fixed pulleys (the variable pulleys need a lot of mechanical maintenance) and UC100 (or UC300) as motion controllers.

The most efficient would be with new AC servos, UC300, new MPG, VFD and of course Mach3.

Zafar

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 02, 2013, 06:42:19 AM

Zaffar, would you rate the Rutex and DG2S  type drives in the same league as, for example, the Bosch?
I certainly wouldnt, no experience with Rutex but I have helped a friend set up a lathe with DG2S.
Dont get me wrong, the DG2S are excellent drives, just I dont think they are in the same class as the more Industrial rated ones.

Regarding the controllers, the problem I see with all the ones you mention is they are 5v I/O, that means you either have to convert the rest of the machine to 5v or have some conversion of the 24v to 5v just before it enters/leaves the breakouts. 5v can work well but as you know noise can be an issue if you are not careful with routing/shielding/grounding. 24V is much better and is obviously the reason the vast majority of Industrial machines are that way.


I much prefer differential Step/Dir if using it, its just so much more noise immune, most of the drives I have used can accept differential and that meant when using devices such as the ESS I had to make up line drivers.
However using the CS-Lab products all of the above issues are non-issues as it caters for them all, 24v I/O and differential step/dir signals.
One thing however is I dont think I would go back to Step/Dir unless the hardware used made it a necessity, the analogue control is just so much better from what I have seen, encoders updating Mach is a big advantage as Mach always knows where it is, even after E-Stop, Limits being hit, manually moving an axis etc, so no more having to re-home each time you enable the servo drives.
 
There of course is the HiCon, which is Step/Dir, that can feed back encoders to Mach to update the position but I have no experience with them so cant comment on how well it works.

These are just my thoughts obviously :)
Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: zafarsalam on November 02, 2013, 09:23:15 AM

Hood,

You are right. DG2S and Rutex can't compete with the industrial drives like Bosch. They are just simpler to integrate with the step direction output from Mach3 parallel port. If one wants to use the analog input drives then I guess the best controller would be Galil or CS-Lab products. Unfortunately I haven't experimented with both. Couldn't recommend something for which I have no experience. The BP series control logic is mostly 24V, so I prepared custom break-out boards to hook them with the controllers or the Mach3 PP. This makes the project more complicated and, if not handled properly, more prone to noise interference. My retrofit skills are still evolving and I am learning as I go. Too many toys and so little time :(.

Zafar

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 02, 2013, 12:37:39 PM

Zafar,
 skills are always evolving, if I look back at my first retrofit I can see a massive change in the way I do things now that I have gained more knowledge along the way :)
Regarding the analogue controllers, I have only tried the CS-Lab one but you not only have  the Galil, as you mentioned, but the DSPMC and the Kfop/Kanalog and I would think they all work well.
The CSMIO/IP-A however is in my opinion an excellent controller, I thought the IP-S was as good as it could get until I put the IP-A on the Chiron.
I bought an IP-S for testing out on the small lathe with the intentions of putting it onto the big lathe in time, now however I will be getting another IP-A instead. I have the luxury of AC servos that can accept step/dir or Analogue so that is no problem.
The only thing that is holding me back at the moment is threading, it works well with the exception of the pull out at the end of the thread is slow, should be fixed in Mach4 as it seems it is a Mach issue. However I have every confidence that if it is not fixed with Mach4 that CS-Lab will implement it via a M-Code, they have done that with rigid tapping and it is excellent.

Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 03, 2013, 05:06:42 PM

Thanks Zafar and Hood for your input. I am going to going down the route of the CSMIO/IP-A route. If I wanted tap threads on the mill, I'm assuming I'd need to add some sort of RPM sensor onto my spindle motor??

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 03, 2013, 05:09:13 PM

Hood, the only think putting me off the CSMIO/IP-A is the lack of user manual in English, is there much too it, could I get away with google translate?

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 03, 2013, 05:21:31 PM

A manual should be out sometime but really its not that hard. There is the connection diagram for the IP-A and then the actual setup is more or less the same as the IP-S of which there is a manual.
If wanting rigid tappping then you will also require the Enc module and you would need an encoder fitted to the spindle or spindle motor.
The Enc module shouldnt really be required for the IP-A as you have encoder inputs on it but it seems they have tried to keep the plugins basically the same and you need one I am afraid, may not in the future but....
Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 03, 2013, 05:40:49 PM

Ok I'll order the enc module too then.

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 04, 2013, 06:21:39 AM

What do most people use as PC's for their mach3 installs. I'm not sure if I'm better off getting a touch screen pc based install and mounting that in the cabinet where my heidenhain currently lives, or just getting my hands on an old panasonic toughbook with touch screen?

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: zafarsalam on November 04, 2013, 07:11:32 AM

Jim,

I've experimented with touch screens too. With the workshop environemt, greasy fingers, cutting oil mist and all other contaminants, the touchscreens start malfunctioning in a few days. There's an android app for controlling Mach3 PC through bluetooth or WiFi. But I haven't tried that and not sure about it's capabilities.

Zafar

Quote from: Jimster on November 04, 2013, 06:21:39 AM

What do most people use as PC's for their mach3 installs. I'm not sure if I'm better off getting a touch screen pc based install and mounting that in the cabinet where my heidenhain currently lives, or just getting my hands on an old panasonic toughbook with touch screen?

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 04, 2013, 08:32:20 AM

I just get a motherboard, memory, hard drive and power supply and fit them into my control panel, that way it makes for a very compact and neat setup, few of my machines use Via Pico motherboards (70mm x 100mm) and the rest have mini ITX motherboards (170mm x 170mm).
I use touch screens on all my machines and dont have a problem other than having to wipe them down with a cloth every now and then so I can see them :D
 Some are more accurate than others. I have a capacitive one by 3M on the Chiron and its very accurate but my Beaver Mill and Computurn lathe have generic Chinese resistive overlay panels and they are not so accurate but still work well. The wee lathe and the coil winder have capacitive as well but they are actually NCR point of sale computers, they work well also.
Only problem I have had with touch screens is I once had an ELO screen , both monitor and panel were excellent quality but  the touch panel was SAW technology and if coolant landed on it the cursor would follow the coolant, I changed that out for one of the Chinese overlays.
 I have had my touch screens on some machines for probably  10years, maybe more and no problems.
One thing however is I much prefer to have external buttons for most things and the controllers with loads of I/O nowadays makes that possible. I tend just to use my touch screen for things like tapping the MDI so I can enter values or tapping DROs etc etc and I use buttons on my panel for day to day functions (start/stop/hold/reference etc etc).

Hood

Title: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 04, 2013, 02:57:11 PM

Where do you guys buy the buttons for start. Estop etc?

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 06, 2013, 07:20:01 AM

Chalon Components have some decent stuff at decent prices.

Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 11, 2013, 11:46:45 AM

I think I know have all the parts for my conversion, I'll create a build diary as I work through the conversion.

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 12, 2013, 05:05:51 AM

Ok, so no turning back now! I have removed the old heidenhein controller and monitor.

I mangaed to win a touch screen pc on ebay, 15" monitor wil fit nicely on my old enclosure, and I plan to make a tool tray where the old controller was.
I hope the pc will be quick enough, it's a 1gz cpu, with 512mb ram. It's currently running windows 7, although I'm very tempted to install windows XP instead. what are your recomendations, xp or 7?

I've received my CSMIO-IP-A controller, Omron VSD, and new servo's (just for thier encoders).

Last night I tried to remove the encoders from the servo's, to install onto mine, but sadly they are not a direct fit. So I have to replace the servo's also, all was going well until I noticed that the servo's I received did not have tacho's in them, so I manged to move the tacho's from one of my origonal servo's.

I can only assume that I need todo this, as I keeping my origonal bocsh servo drives, which have tacho from the motor??

Do I also need to run a tacho signal to my IP-A?

And finally one thing I'm not sure about is home switches. My bridgeport doesn;t seem to have any on the X and Y axis, only the Z. I can see the limit switches,  but not a home. Are they there and I can't see them, or don't I need them, or do I need to add some??

Cheers

Jim

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 12, 2013, 09:55:41 AM

Did Forbes not give you the Tachs he took off the motor?

The tachs only go to your Bosch drives, the encoders go to the CSMIO/IP-A.

The home switches may have been shared but usually they are separate. Often they are Euchner type switches and there are two in one housing, you should be able to feel two plungers at the back if it is that type.

You could use the Limits as a home but better to have separates if possible. Good thing about the CSMIO is you can home to the index pulse so the switches only have to be relatively accurate as they are just a signal for the CSMIO to start looking for the encoders index pulse.

Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 12, 2013, 10:43:17 AM

no he didn't I'm going to ask him to post them down to me, but I can't get access to my email at the moment

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 12, 2013, 11:10:42 AM

Forbes just  said he had the tachs for all motors except one and included them, sure they were not in the packaging somewhere?
Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 12, 2013, 11:17:43 AM

one servo motor (the green one) still has the tacho in it, the other two didn't. one also had the magnets removed too.

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 12, 2013, 11:21:16 AM

Ok, hopefully you can get things sorted between you if he does still have them.

Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 12, 2013, 12:02:01 PM

forbes is a good guy, he's posting me out the missing parts :D

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 12, 2013, 01:07:16 PM

Yes he is, just his memory isnt great, suppose that is because he is very old ;D
Hood

Title: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 14, 2013, 05:44:29 AM

I made some progress last night. I removed the old kit from 1984
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/14/emu9e7y6.jpg)

And went all 21st century with a touch screen
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/14/pave5ehy.jpg)

The pc I'm using only has a single DIMM slot, but I managed to find a single 1gb DIMM which worked :)

I installed mach3
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/14/yga2epu6.jpg)

I was just about to power up my lP-A controller, but noticed the power supply I purchased was AC and not DC :( I'll have to wait a few more days before configuring mach3.

I've still got to refit my servos and for the VFD, so plenty to get on with.

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 14, 2013, 06:55:08 AM

Coming along fine, lucky you didnt power the CSMIO, not sure how it would have reacted but wouldnt think it would have been good.

Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 14, 2013, 08:00:29 AM

yes indeed, I check the invoice, I did order a dc supply, but the lack of + or - on the terminals gave it away.

Title: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 14, 2013, 05:24:45 PM

Can anyone help with the pin outs on my muirhead vactric optical encoders??(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/15/3u4a6ana.jpg)

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 15, 2013, 02:52:51 AM

I would look up the pinout for the 7406N chip and see which is the VCC and Gnd, you then can trace the wires to see what they are. After that I would imagine you should be able to see which is  which regarding the A and B channel. I am sure I scoped this encoder for Forbes, so he may still have the info I gave him. Doesnt look like there is an Index on that encoder, it may be there just not wired up but really a scope would be the only way to test if that is the case.
Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 15, 2013, 06:30:41 AM

Thanks Hood, forbes is looking around to see if he has a drawing still for this encoder, as I received two slightly different types from him. If not I'll have to see if anyone local has a scope I can borrow. My DVM shows freqency output, so I may be able to see something??

I tried to fit the servo motors last night, but first found that the PCD on the mounting flange was different, so I had to strip the end plate from my old motors onto the new motors. This went smoothly enough. I then tried to fit my pulley to the motors and found that the dia of the spindle on the new motor was slightly larger. I don't have a boring bar small enough to enlarge this on the lathe, so I've ordered a reamer to get the job done.

Had a few hours of pulling my hair out last night, didn't think this would be a smooth conversion. I'm sure all the effort will be worth it in the end.

Title: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 17, 2013, 01:20:37 PM

Sadly forbes was unable to help with the diagram for one of my encoders (photo above). I have worked out 5v and ground. Bit nothing else. I've noticed that the encoder or have 6 wires, while the others have 8. Is this going to be an issue?

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 17, 2013, 01:27:57 PM

I wonder if the six wire one is single ended and there are just 5v, 0v, A, B and Index and the extra wire is the shield?

If not then it could be it does not have the Index either connected or it has no index at all. Often the code number of the encoder will give you info on its signals etc, what is it?

Really a dual trace scope is the way to find out what is what.
Hood

Title: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 17, 2013, 01:57:35 PM

Sadly nobody local to me that I know has a scope :( here is an image of the encoder showing the numbers. Does this give you any info?(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/18/azahyvy6.jpg)

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 17, 2013, 02:33:41 PM

That tells me it has an index pulse so I suspect it is just a single ended encoder. It is the ABZ part that tells me that, ie A channel, B channel and Z channel, the Z being the Index.
Also it looks like it may just be a 254 line encoder.
How many encoders did you get from Forbes in total?
Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 17, 2013, 02:41:39 PM

Ok I just found some info from BEI that looks similar and also rings a bell with what I scoped when I tested that encoder.
Red is +5V
Black is 0V
Green is case Ground

So if that checks out then

Yellow looks like its channel A
Blue looks like its channel B
Orange looks like its channel Z.

But as said its a low cound encoder, only having 254 counts per rev or 1016 quadrature.

Hood

Title: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 17, 2013, 02:42:05 PM

I got 4, two this type, the other like this was physically broken. So I only had 3. Is this no good for me then?

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 17, 2013, 02:54:59 PM

Yes it will work, its lower count than I would like but will still be fine. I would put that one on the Z.
It is also single ended so personally I would make up a line driver to make it differential, you can also buy the line drivers, think www.cncdrives.com sell line drivers ready made fairly cheap.

Do the colours check out, well Red Black and Green anyway as without a scope you wont really know the others. However if  they are correct then its likely the others are.
Hood

Title: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 17, 2013, 03:07:37 PM

That's good news. I'll put this on the z axis.
I'm very eager to test and setup the machine. Can I use this encoder without the line driver until it arrives?

I've identified red as 5v and black as ground. Can I damage anything if I connect the rest wrong?

Title: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 17, 2013, 03:13:07 PM

Quote from: Hood on November 17, 2013, 02:41:39 PM

Ok I just found some info from BEI that looks similar and also rings a bell with what I scoped when I tested that encoder.
Red is +5V
Black is 0V
Green is case Ground

So if that checks out then

Yellow looks like its channel A
Blue looks like its channel B
Orange looks like its channel Z.

But as said its a low cound encoder, only having 254 counts per rev or 1016 quadrature.

Hood

Sorry only just noticed you posted this. So 5v and 0v(black) I'll check ground when I head back to workshop in 30 mins.

So how would I connect this to my ip-a without line driver, or can't i??

Title: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 17, 2013, 03:34:30 PM

The green is case ground, so I hope the rest are correct too. The wires inside look very factory with nice connector, so I guess it's original. With less wires, in unsure how to connect these to my ip-a controller?

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 17, 2013, 03:42:15 PM

You would only get a run away situation if they were connected up wrong but the CSMIO is smart enough to sense that and should stop things very quickly.

I am not sure if it will work well without the differential but if you just connect the A B and Z to the  A+ b+ and i+   you will soon know.
Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 17, 2013, 03:43:21 PM

I am actually wondering if it is a differential encoder just without the wires connected. If you had a scope it could easily be tested but sadly you dont :(

Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: mc on November 17, 2013, 06:21:52 PM

Going by the 3 additional tinned holes on the PCB, I'd guess it is differential without the wires.

You could check with a multimeter to see if they change voltage when turned to a few random positions, or if your meter has a frequency setting, while spinning it.
The Z would be easy to figure out, but the other two could be a bit more problematic. The trick would be holding the encoder at a point where A and B are in different states (i.e. one high, one low), then matching to their complimentary outputs.

Title: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 18, 2013, 08:44:46 AM

I'll check the tinned holes later, I noticed yesterday that one of them had no tracks going to it top or bottom, maybe I should just order another encoder? Was thinking about the amt103?

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 18, 2013, 10:56:40 AM

If that is the capacitive ones, I have heard they are reasonable, however I have never tried any of them. I think they will be single ended so you will need a line driver for it as well.
Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 18, 2013, 11:10:39 AM

I've ordered some AMT103's now and line drives. although I'm mr impatient and I really want to get my machine working tonight. If I connect the old encoders incorrectly, could I damage my controller, (assuming I get 0v and 5v correct)

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 18, 2013, 01:44:48 PM

No, I dont see how you could.
Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 20, 2013, 07:37:04 AM

I took the safer option, and waited for my new encoders and line drivers to arrive. I purchased an extra one or the spindle too. Hopefully order the threading module when I get some spare cash.

I've been spending all my time reading the wiring diagram and tracing cables in my bridgeport. I do have limit and home switches. Currently all my limit switches are joined in series. Is there any advantage to connect each limit switch to it's own input on the IP-A?

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 20, 2013, 08:24:45 AM

I just have mine in series however I think if you have separate the the CSMIO will not allow you to jog the wrong way after you reset, could be wrong on that however ::)
Home switches need to be separate for best results though.
Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 20, 2013, 08:53:09 AM

ok thanks for the advice hood.

Title: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 21, 2013, 10:43:20 AM

I managed to mount the new AMT encoders last night. I modified the old end cap to put a large flat area to mount it on. I didn't realise how tiny these encoders where (http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/21/ubadymyd.jpg)

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 21, 2013, 01:23:20 PM

Yes they are tiny, as mentioned I have never tried them but I have heard people say they are reasonable, hopefully they are just what you need although personally I would have stuck with the ones you had.
Hood

Title: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 21, 2013, 01:30:25 PM

I only replaced the one on the z axis, the other encoder I purchased for the spindle

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 21, 2013, 02:04:29 PM

Ah ok I thought you were replacing all of them.
You reckon you will get it doing something tonight?
Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 21, 2013, 08:49:11 PM

I did try, but failed. I have got mach3 seeing the e stop and homing switches. The encoders also work (if I manual move the servo's the position changes on the screen). I just can't see how to configure the servo outputs. Where do I set these options, as we haven't got an English manual??

also attached my config, does this look ok ish?

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 22, 2013, 10:45:01 AM

You configure the axes in the CSMIO plugin (Config menu then Plugins etc)
You need to enable the axes in Ports and Pins in Mach if I recall but dont need to set any ports or pins for them as thats done in the plugin.

Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 22, 2013, 11:11:55 AM

I'm not with the machine at the moment, so can't exactly remember the screens, however the motor screens looked like it was looking for stepper motor outputs and not analoge

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 22, 2013, 11:51:41 AM

You still need to set up the motor tuning in Mach for the axes (not spindle though, its in the plugin) So for axes you need to work out your steps per unit, ie how many encoder pulses per mm and also your velocity and acceleration.
In the plugin itself is where you set the encoder input channel and analogue output channel, see screenshot. You also need to put your encoder count there as well for the index homing.
Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 23, 2013, 04:44:37 PM

Ok, it looks like I had to power power to relays to enable power to each servo drive. I've now done this, and things are moving!

I'm just starting with the x axis powered at the moment, and the table moved all the way over to the right,(the encoder is working too, as the DRO numbers where chaning) hitting the limit switch. I can hold down a button to enable power again, but it will not move the axis in the opposite direction. (to wear the homing switch is) I've tried jogging on the screen, or with my MPG, but it doesn't move.

How can I move the table in the opposite direction (towards the home switch)??

Thanks

Jim

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 23, 2013, 04:55:41 PM

If you either attach your xml here or send it via email I will see if I can find an issue in your config.
When you say you enabled and it moved, was that when you jogged or did it just move on its own? If it was on its own then probably one of two things. First is have you tuned the axis from the CSMIO plugin? Second, is if you have then it could be the encoder direction needs inverted (in plugin again) and that you have a hige following error set and thus it wasnt tripping.

Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 23, 2013, 05:06:22 PM

I've attached my config for you. I did try to tune the axis from the plugin, but it just kept moving without changing speed or direction, is this normal?

It was moving on it's own, jogging didn't appear to have any affect

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 23, 2013, 05:16:33 PM

Ok did you do the auto tuning? It should move back and forth and progressively get rouher then it will move onto the next stage etc.
There is a document giving rough settings to use as a base for the auto tuning.
Did it run away fast or was it relatively slow? If fairly slow then click on the DAC Offset button on the  X axis PID Tuning page and it will create an offset voltage to keep the axis still when not commanded.
You will not be able to use the MPG unless the axis is homed, so either disable your home switches then press RefAll  or actually do a Home move (press RefAll) but best to get the tuning reasonable first.
Regarding keyboard jogging, you may or may not be able to do that, depends how you have the MPG set up, do you have a MPG module? Do you have a rotary switch to select axis and  x1 x10 x 100? If so do you have an enable button for them or not?

Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 23, 2013, 05:28:45 PM

I tried the auto tuning, but it just moved very slowly in one direction. But this started happening before I started the auto tuning.

This is the MPG I'm using for the moment:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CNC-3-Axis-4-axis-USB-HandWheel-MPG-pendant-for-Mach-3-engraving-Router-system-/251372031164?pt=UK_Computing_Other_Computing_Networking&hash=item3a86f0ccbc

How can I move it in the opposite direction, apart from putting voltage manually to the motors?

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 23, 2013, 05:36:18 PM

Ok first thing I would do is remove the pendant as it may be causing conflicts.
Next make sure you have the latest plugin for the CSMIO, not sure what you have but it may be an early one if from the CD, not sure what they supply now.
If you go into the PID tuning page in the plugin see if you can jog with the keys in it.
Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 23, 2013, 05:42:11 PM

The plug in is 2.0.52 dated august 2013, I guess this it the latest version??
I've unplugged the MPG
No I can't jog from the PID tuning page, this is the same on X&Y axis.

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 23, 2013, 05:43:53 PM

Is the limit active? Can you get rid of the flashin RESET? Have you tried pressing the DAC Offset button and if so is it giving you a value?
Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 23, 2013, 05:45:01 PM

Oh and the latest plugin was just last month if I recall, 052 is the latest.
Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 23, 2013, 05:56:43 PM

Something I noticed in your xml, you have Z Home switch and E-Stop set to the same port and pin.
Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 23, 2013, 06:12:50 PM

The limit switches aren't active as yet, I need to rewire how they are currently wired, although the home switches are.
your right about the Z home, error on my part.

I've managed to move the machine back manually, but each time I enable power to the motors, the bed moves in same direction again. although faster this time (Really quick!!)

I can reset the flashing button

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 23, 2013, 06:25:41 PM

if I press the DAC offset button, the value of 0 still remains the same. after winding the machine back I'm now getting the error, epid fault, press reset on mach screen

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 24, 2013, 03:09:46 AM

Ok try inverting the encoder and see if that helps.
Hood

Title: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 24, 2013, 08:05:52 AM

I tried inverting the encoder but it makes no difference.

I have also noticed that the axis all move on their own even before Mach3 running
It would appear that the ip-a module is always pushing -0.17v on outputs 0  - 5. Does this looks like it's an internal config issue on the ip-a and nothing todo with mach3??

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 24, 2013, 09:04:50 AM

You should not get any movement at all until the drives are enabled and the enable signal should come from the CSMIO when you take Mach out of reset, so it sounds like you are not doing that.

You will always get some kind of signal on the analogue lines due to noise etc and it is the CSMIO's job to offset that and hold the axis stationary  whilst it is meant to be, that is what the DAC Offset button is used for, it sets up the offset.


Also are you sure you have the analogue signals connected to the channel you have defined in the CSMIO?
Hood

Title: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 24, 2013, 10:00:46 AM

I'm pretty sure in using the correct outputs.
I'm connected to analog I/o pins 1&14, 2@15, 3&16.

If I leave the servo drives connected to the breakout block, and just disconcert the rs232 cable from the ip-a then the axis stops moving

Title: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 24, 2013, 10:56:02 AM

Ok, I'm getting closer now. I wound the y axis all the way out which gave me enough time to press power enable, reset and start. The motor tuning starts but after about 1 min a breaker in my machine trips.

Also I've noticed that the Dro is out, if I move the axis 150mm it changes 300 on the screen, not sure if this is related?

Here is a photo of the breaker which trips. Is it safe to adjust it??
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/24/gyqepa3e.jpg)(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/24/8u7e3y8y.jpg)

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 24, 2013, 01:25:25 PM

Ok are these the original motors or the ones from Forbes?
If the latter then you may need to tune the drives to motors.

How have you got the enables to the drives connected, is it via the IP-A?

Regarding the overload, if it is the original motors you have it should not need adjusted, presuming of course the overload is for the motors?

Try the DAC first before you try tuning to see if that stops the drift.
Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 24, 2013, 01:34:14 PM

Also what is the gearing between motor and screw?
Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 24, 2013, 01:38:53 PM

Ok I just looked at your xml, you do not have the enables connected via the CSMIO, you must have that or you will not have any control over the motors whilst Mach is in reset.
Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 24, 2013, 01:51:02 PM

These are all the motors supplies by forbes, How do I go about tuning the drives to motors??

I havn't got  the drives enabled via the ip-a, this was my next quetions, assuming I just use any spare digital output for each of the drives, how do I configure this in mach3?

I try the DAC offset, but when I press the button, nothing happens. Should I measure the voltage accros the pins and try to enter manually?

The gearing between the motor and the screw I guess is 2:1 12 tooth on the motor, 24teeth on the screw. One revolution of the motor is 2.5mm on the axis

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 24, 2013, 01:59:54 PM

Did I find a pdf for you that detailed tuning? or am I thinking of someone else?

You must have the enables via the CSMIO or you will, as I said in the last post, not have any control over the motors when the CSMIO/Mach is in reset.
You can do it two ways, you can choose to use the enables in Mach and just assign the pin and port or you can do it in the plugin itself, there is an option there for setting up enable. You can just have the one output to enable all drives.


Ok Gearing seems fine as I presume you have 5mm screws so that equates to 2000 steps per mm, so not sure why you are seeing double.
Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 24, 2013, 02:05:30 PM

You found this for me:
http://www.pennineuk.com/library/pdf/boschZ15Manual.pdf

Is that tuning??

So do the enable outputs all get switched on when reset is pressed??

I'll connect these up now if that's the case.

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 24, 2013, 02:07:16 PM

Yes, thats correct regarding enables, when you take Mach out of reset the enables go active.
Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 24, 2013, 02:11:56 PM

Yes that pdf is giving you the initial setup steps. If the otors are the same voltage and current and the tachs are the same voltage per thousand RPM then you may not need to tune.

Regarding the DAC, no it should offset for you when you press that, or at least I think it does but you should not be trying to do an auto tune at the same time, just in case thats what you were doing.
Hood

Title: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 24, 2013, 02:26:35 PM

The motors are slightly different voltage, some are 140, 142 and 145. Would is be easier to refit my old motors and buy more of the amt 103 encoders?

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 24, 2013, 02:31:59 PM

if the voltage, current  and rpm are close it should be ok.
Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 24, 2013, 04:47:16 PM

ok, I've connected the outputs to the relays of each of my axis, I've only enabled the y axis at the moment (one step at a time) ;)

I try the autotuning, but each time the kVff gets to above ~59 - 60 the breaker trips each time,

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 24, 2013, 04:49:24 PM

You could trying increasing it as long as it is not higher than your drives or motors can handle.
Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 24, 2013, 04:51:04 PM

Just looked at your motor tuning, it is very low for Velocity and acceleration, maybe try increasing them.
Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 24, 2013, 05:09:54 PM

Sorry to be lame hood, which boxes are they? and what values should I start with?? is this still on the PID Tuning (auto tuning) screen?

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 24, 2013, 05:13:58 PM

In Machs Motor Tuning.
Not sure what the RPM of the motors will be, it wil depend on the voltage you can supply them and what their voltage constant is but I would imagine you will get at least 5000mm/min for Velocity. For Accel you can start off relatively low, maybe 400 and see.
Hood

Title: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 24, 2013, 05:30:01 PM

As always, thanks again for your help.
Just checked the numbers on my motors:

Max rpm is 2500
142volts
4.5nm

Would you still go with the numbers you recommend above?

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 24, 2013, 05:49:58 PM

I am not sure what the voltage you have going to the drives but a really safe number would be to set Velocity to 2500mm/min.
Hood

Title: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 24, 2013, 05:56:10 PM

Ok thanks, I'll check my diagram to see what voltage is going to my drives. (Wife has grounded me for the night)

Also the is definitely reading exactly half of what it should be. I've set the encoder pulses to 1250, is this related to my issue? Where do I change the pitch of the screws in the software?

Title: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 24, 2013, 05:58:37 PM

Just a thought, could I get any of the settings from the parameters I have for the old tnc 150 controller?

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 24, 2013, 06:10:20 PM

The encoder pulse should be set to 5000 if you are meaning for the homing as your encoders are 1250 count but it is 4 times that as far as the CSMIO/Mach is concerned.
Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 24, 2013, 06:11:14 PM

The TNC should have parameters in it telling you what Velocity etc was set.
Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 25, 2013, 07:00:32 PM

I've changed the values for my

motors, as you recommend, and I'm much closer. I can jog all 3 axis. For some reason the X & Y axis are now reading correctly, (not sure what I've changed) The Z axis is wrong, if I move the axis so mach3 shows 50mm, the axis actually moves 30mm. Really blonde question, but when Z increases should the tool go closer to the work, as mine doesn't so I guess motor and encoder are reversed?? Also is all axis, sometime when the motors are stopped, they can chatter, but the axis does not move. I guess this is some kind of tuning issue?? I've attached my config

again.

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 25, 2013, 07:07:07 PM

This is the encoder I'm using on the Z axis:
http://www.cui.com/product/resource/amt10x.pdf
All switches left a default, which should be 2048 PPR? Have I set this correct in the software?

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 25, 2013, 07:08:54 PM

You likely have the Z steps per unit set wrong. It will depend on your encoder count, the reduction and the ballscrew pitch.
So encoder x reduction divided by pitch = steps per unit.

Z up is a positive move, down a negative. Fully up in machine coordinates for Z is zero and thus all moves in machine coords are a negative value.

Chattering/buzzing when stationary is a servo tuning issue, you may have to tune your drives or possibly just have to fine tune the CSMIO.

Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 25, 2013, 07:09:32 PM

Ok so you can work it out as mentioned above.
Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 25, 2013, 07:11:47 PM

Oh and BTW the 2048 will be 8192 as far as Mach is concerned.
Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 25, 2013, 07:14:34 PM

3276.8 is what I get assuming its 2:1 reduction and that seems right as if you send 2000 pulses per mm,  as you currently have in motor tuning for Z, and command a move of 50mm you will get an axis travel of 30.5mm

Hood

Title: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 25, 2013, 07:14:37 PM

Thanks hood, I'll have a play tomorrow.

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 26, 2013, 05:36:47 AM

Thanks Hood, those figures worked spot on!!!

My Z Axis is reversed though, I've revered this is the software and now working as it should. Just the motor tuning today for me.

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 26, 2013, 05:54:46 AM

Yes for reversing an axis with the CSMIO you have to use the Reversed option in Homing and Limits page instead of using the Dir active state. No big deal but took me a while to work out why I could not reverse an axis on their Step/Dir controller as I had always done it via the Dir active state ;D

Hood

Title: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 26, 2013, 08:26:46 AM

Yes I found that option and it works a treat. I have tuned all the axis, but something has gone wrong with my z motor, jammed solid. I've got spares so I'll strip it and investigate.

Title: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 26, 2013, 08:29:03 AM

Ok the pid motor tuning page, I have tuned the motors so they have an error of about 70-80, is this regarded as a high (bad) or low error count?

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 26, 2013, 09:24:52 AM

 With yours being 2000 steps per unit then that works out to 0.035-0.04mm so could be better but not too bad.
Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 26, 2013, 09:52:30 AM

Also just to put this into context, that is at rapid speeds and you will almost certainly get a much lower amount when at cutting feeds. To get an idea you could test it out by going into the PID Tuning and set the move speed down to say 10%  (see 1 in pic) and also set a move amount, see pic of where you enter that value (2). For example if you look at the axis position and then decide on a move that would be safe and enter that into the Position box. You then want to press the apply (3) to zero the error (6) and if you choose the option of double move (4) then when you press Start it will move to the position you entered and then back and you will see the error.
 I suspect you will be a lot lower and that would represent a feed of 500mm/min :)

Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 28, 2013, 03:27:48 PM

Thanks Hood, I'm back on this again now, I'll have a go at the above

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 30, 2013, 03:57:11 AM

I'm still yet to try your tuning test above, I now have bigger problem :(

When I run some g code as a quick test (with spindle motor stopped, the main RCCD in my workshop trips after a few mins. So I rewired the power supply going to my rotary phase converter to before the RCCD in my workshop,
Now when I run the mill, after about 30 secs it trips the RCCD in the house (which it's not connected though).

In my house I have coming out of my mains supply meter I have two pairs of 16mm2 cable. One set goes to my house consumer unit, and the other out to my workshop.
 
I don't see how something in my workshop could impact the RCCD in the house, any thoughts?

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 30, 2013, 04:38:30 AM

Sounds like you have some leakage to Earth.
 Does this happen with the machine disconnected from the phase converter and just running the phase converter?
Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 30, 2013, 05:15:44 AM

I can run the inverter running with or without the machine connected without issues. It's only when I run g code that I trip the rccd. Strangely I can jog the machine without issues??

Would it be worth creating a program which just worked each axis at a time to narrow down the cause.

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 30, 2013, 05:48:05 AM

You could try that and see but why it trips the RCD in the house I am unclear as I would have thought it must be an earth leakage for that to trip.

Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 30, 2013, 06:23:08 AM

At the moment the house and the workshop share the same earth. Would it be better for each to have there own earth?
Any ideas how to trace the earth leakage?

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 30, 2013, 06:37:52 AM

Not really as I am not a spark but what I would likely do is try and remove all circuits and enable one at a time and see when/if the fault occurs.
I would look at the wiring to see if there is some damage to insulation which may allow the current to leak to earth, something like a nipped cable or insulation that has been cut by swarf. It may be hard to find, especially if the problem is in multicore cable as you may not see any damage from the outside but if you can narrow the problem section of wiring down to a specific area it will be easier to find.

 Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 30, 2013, 06:39:35 AM

Also maybe flexing any wiring that normally gets flexed with axis movement may show up the fault.
Hood

Title: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 30, 2013, 03:02:12 PM

I've narrowed the fault down to the x axis. (It would be the motor hardest to get to) The motor doesn't move when the machine is in operation. But I will give everything a good shake while testing. I've checked each terminal of the motor to earth, and there is no obvious fault. Maybe I'll swap a motor from another axis and see how in get on??

Are there any other checks I can do ok the motor?

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 30, 2013, 04:20:58 PM

How easy would it be to swap drives?

If you have a megger you could test out the motors insulation, make sure its disconnected first :)
Hood

Title: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on November 30, 2013, 06:17:56 PM

Quote from: Hood on November 30, 2013, 04:20:58 PM

How easy would it be to swap drives?

If you have a megger you could test out the motors insulation, make sure its disconnected first :)
Hood

What's a megger? I have a multi meter and that's about it, I could swap drives, but motor would be easier.

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on November 30, 2013, 06:37:57 PM

A megger is used to test insulation, it puts a very high voltage through the wires, mine has 250/500/1000v settings.

Well swapping motors would let you know if its the motor, if it still happens then may be the drive or the wiring.
All trial and error I am afraid :(
Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on December 01, 2013, 07:03:30 PM

I have changed the x axis motor, with now I made up from 2 spares, mainly had to fit the tacho. The motor now creeps on its own. Could this be because the tacho needs timing? As I just plonked it in?

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on December 01, 2013, 07:37:25 PM

Dont know too much about tachos but think it wouldnt matter. Could be your drive needs tuned into the tach voltage if its slightly different from last one. However I think its more likely you just need to redo the offset in the PID tuning page of the CSMIO.
Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on December 05, 2013, 07:53:44 AM

I've been trying to get the X axis working for a a few days and no luck :( still the axis moved to the right (when connected to the ip-a). I have tried the offset voltage, I find 0.18 moves the axis one way, and 0.19 the other, and it's doesn't let me save 0.185. Anything else I can try?

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on December 05, 2013, 11:06:51 AM

Did you get to the bottom of the tripping issue?
Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on December 05, 2013, 11:58:26 AM

Since changing out one of the motors (this x axis) the machine has not tripped the breaker, although I've not had the axis running for more than a few seconds. As after about a second the mach3 reports a PID fault I guess as it wasn't expecting the axis to move.

However, I only noticed the problem with the motor when I ran my first G code program.

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on December 05, 2013, 01:21:31 PM

Could you have the encoder the wrong way? Try inverting the encoder in the CSMIO plugin. See pic
Hood

Title: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on December 13, 2013, 07:30:08 AM

I've had a few days off this as the wife has had me decorating the kids rooms. I've now managed to stop the motor creeping so I can now start with the tuning. Hopefully I'll get this cracked on the weekend so I can then move on to the VFD for the spindle motor

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on December 13, 2013, 01:07:27 PM

What was the cure for the creep?
Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on December 16, 2013, 04:34:57 AM

The creeping issue I think was mainly my lack of understand on the software interface. I have since learned that the value for offset, may not be the actually value saved. You can type a value in two 3 decimal places, and click apply, and it does save. Simply with playing with this value I resolved my problem.

Yesterday I spent the afternoon cleaning out the sump where all the coolant is kept, There must have been an inch of 20 year old crud in the bottom  Not the nicest of jobs.

Can anyone recommend a coolant fluid?

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on December 16, 2013, 07:27:03 AM

Ok, I have never typed a value in that box, I just pressed the button and the control set the offset required.

Hood

Title: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on December 17, 2013, 02:45:15 PM

Pressing the button didn't work for me :(

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on January 17, 2014, 12:08:06 PM

Hood, another question for you.
every now and then one of my servo motors makes a buzzing sound without moving, if the motor moves to any position it then stops, I can then move the motor back to where it was and it will be fine. If I don't move it then the breaker inside my machine trips. Any idea what is causing this and how to resolve the issue?

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on January 17, 2014, 08:33:10 PM

Sounds like servo tuning, you are getting dithering and its likely causing the motor to heat and trip on a thermal fault.
Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on January 18, 2014, 03:06:02 AM

Any ideas what I need to tweak in motor tuning to fix this?

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Hood on January 18, 2014, 05:21:24 AM

You just need to get the tuning as best you can, it may be the tuning in the drive is way off and thus it makes it hard for the CSMIO to keep it still or it could be you just need to fine tune it in the CSMIO.
Hood

Title: Re: Where do I start Bridgeport Interact Series 1
Post by: Jimster on December 09, 2014, 06:37:18 AM

A little update, the machine has been up and running for around a year now. No issues really.I had to tune the servo driver as hood suggested to one axis but all seems good.

The next job I have is to fit the VFD. Does anyone know where I can buy some pulleys from to replace the varispeed head? While the head is apart I also plan to replace the bearings as these are getting noisy. Can I get these in the UK for reasonable money?