Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: Brian Barker on January 02, 2007, 10:43:27 PM
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Well I don't know who of you are going to Cabin Fever, but if you are going please stop by and say Hi :) I will be the guy sitting in a chair watching the CNC router run all over the place (Quantum ;) ).. I also will have my computer with a burner there if you need to get a CD of Mach3 (better then slow Internet). There will be no charge for that but I can tell you that I will only have 50 of them with me... Also if you need to buy a license file I could set you up with a show special ;) I will know better what that will be when the big day hits.
I will also be giving a talk on Mach3 and cnc in general. I could care less if you would like to talk about Mach3 or not, If you would like to know more about stepper motors,servo motors and how to wire a machine.. Cool that is good for me :) Art and I do this every time we go to a show... But if you fill the hour with Mach3 questions that is good too;) If you do have a mach3 question I will be running the router at the table and could tell/show/teach you stuff about the program and the wizards.
So IF you have an idea what you would like to see at the show please pipe up and I will try to make it happen
Thanks
Brian
BTW here is the link to the show http://www.cabinfeverexpo.com/
See you there Benny :o
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Was wondering if yall were gonna be at any other locations this year,York is a pretty good drive from Huntsville,Al.
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Don't know at this time but I will post here to tell you :)
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Hey, according to my map Huntsville to York is about 770 miles. For us its almost 670 miles from Maine to York. Sometimes you gotta drive a few miles for good stuff. :-)
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Hi Brian
I am new to the forum so let me introduce myself. My name is Sam Harbold and my wife and I own and operate a small custom millwork shop approx 20 miles northeast of Baltimore, MD. I have a Shopbot that was purchased in March of 1999. I am just starting to do a major overhaul of the machine and once complete plan on switching over to Mach software. I was glad to see you are going to be in York, PA. I look forward to meeting you and seeing the software in action. My plans are to attend the show on Saturday.
Sam
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Cool Sam!
I will be there but you may not pick out the right guy :) I am the one that looks like he just rolled out of the hills...
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Take it, that a safe bet your not going to trim your wiskers for the event ;)
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I clean up well :)
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I just happen to be doing some service work in Scanton PA. I would have loved to drive down to the expo. But I'm a week too early and go back to Wisconsin friday. :(
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Hello Sam,
I just did a major overhaul to my cable driven 1997 ShopBot PR, the only thing left from the original machine is the uni-strut frame.
My new controller the Ascension 1000 from Custom-CNC uses Mach3 software and I would never turn back.
If you have any questions about my build please fell free to ask away.
Hello Brian,
I hope to make it to the show if business allows it,(it's about a two hour drive )and look forward to meeting you.
Tom
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Hey Tom
Glad to hear from someone that has one of the older Shopbots. My unit is a little newer than yours in the fact that mine does have the rack & pinion drive. But from your photos they look alike. What mechanical modifications have you made to your shopbot? I have started to draw the modifications that I am planning on doing to my machine. Here is the link to what I had in mind.
http://www.wa3umc.com/sb/Screen%20Shot%201.jpg
http://www.wa3umc.com/sb/Screen%20Shot%202.jpg
http://www.wa3umc.com/sb/Screen%20Shot%203.jpg
I am also in the process of redesigning the Z axis. My new design will use steel shafting with linear bearings instead of the screen door rollers.
Any suggestions or recommendations would be greatly appreciated.
Sam Harbold
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Tom,
Alan told me about you :) I look forward to seeing you there!
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How many vendors show up for this show? I am not really interested in the exhibitors since I do not do modeling. But there is another show this weekend in Philly that I want to go see and I don't think I can make both.
Dan.
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There will be at least 20-30 vendors of used tools and macinery. Also many vendors of model related stuff- plans, kits, castings, etc. On friday there is a BIG auction, usually 600 or so lots. Machines, tooling, junk, models, stock, etc.
On CNC specific vednors Fred smith of IM service is alwyas there, as is Steve stallings of PMDX.
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I will also Have some MPG's with me and a machine you can test them on :) I will be selling them for 75.00 each
Very cool toy!
BTW Ron I expect to see you for beer Firday night (At the hotel) and I am going to buy! ;D
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I clean up well :)
So does ower dog.............
On a show note, for anyone UK based there is a show on at the same time, this weekend 19,20 and 21st, in London at the Alexandra Palace but over three days, Fri, Sat and Sunday.
Full trade show plus models and club stands.
Everything from a nut and bolt up to 14 x 40 lathes and Bridgeport clones. Very populat and if last year is anything to go by attendances should be around the 20,000 mark.
John S.
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John you crack me up :o
In the US I will be showing a machine with Encoders on the steppers... When the machine is running I can hit the table and stop the axis, the machine will go into an Estop because it has exceeded the Max following error... Once that has happened I can grab each axis and move them by pushing on them to insure that I have missed a proper number of steps :) I press reset and all my DRO's change to show the true position and I am back up and running!
This will be running at the show and I will Demo it for any one that would like to see it :) (Very cool to see!)
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Going, going Gone!
Well time to start the drive to the show :) and I think I will be able to get to the forum from the hotel... But if not Sorry, and they are in good hands!
Benny you are on call now;)
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Hi Brian,
how did the show go?
Have you any pictures or video for us poor minions that live thousands of miles away?
Graham.
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I was going to take Pic's but there was NO TIME!!! Man it was a long few days! There were great people and great works there (What I saw on my way to the rest room). I hope to make it to the show next year ;)
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There are now several pages of photos of this years show on the New England Model Engineering Society web site at http://neme-s.org/Cabin_Fever_2007/cabin_fever_expo_2007.htm
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Brian
It was a pleasure to meet you at the Cabin Fever Expo in PA the other week. I am in the process of getting togeather all the parts and components to do the modifications to my Shopbot. I had looked up the encoder part number from the encoders on the steppers that you are using and I believe they are 300 Count per rev. A friend of mine may be able to supply me with some steppers with encoders already mounted. The encoders are either 1000 or 1250 count per rev. Would these be usable? If so what if any difference will it make? The last question is who did you say was going to sell the interface board for the encoders?
Thanks
Sam Harbold
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Hello Sam,
This is the board that was in the Router that I was running http://www.rogersmachine.net/
Also you are going to want to use about 300 count per rev encoders... any more then that and you may not be able to read them at top speed
Thanks
Brian
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Hello Brian,
Unfortunately I was unable to attend and meet you at the Cabin Fever Expo, but I am very interested in the system that you were demoing there.
I would like to incorporate the feedback system you are using into m y current cnc setup.
Would you be willing to share your stepper motor and encoder information ( model, size, supplier, etc:)?
I have already contacted Ron at Rogers Machine and his boards are compatible with my existing system.
I just need to get new double shaft steppers and the proper encoders to make it work.
Thank you,
Tom
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Tom
Here is the information I received from Brian at the show regarding the steppers and encoders.
For the steppers Brian recommended the Keling model KL23H286-20-8B http://www.kelinginc.net/SMotorstock.html
The encoders he had on his machine were US Digital E4P-300-250-T http://www.usdigital.com/products/e4p/
I have been doing some checking and have also found this stepper with a little more torque 24Y504D-LW8
http://www.anaheimautomation.com/manuals/L010280%20-%2024Y%20Series%20Spec%20Sheet.pdf
One other item is on the encoders I spoke with a tech at US digital the other day. The gentleman was telling me that the basic E4P encoder has a single ended output which is good for about 6-10 foot of cable run. When I explained to him my application on a 96" x 48" CNC router he recommended going to a differential output. By doing so you can increase the cable run to well over 100' with a much more reliable signal. You can add a driver to the E4P which will output a differential signal or you can go to a E5 encoder which has a differential output. This also complicates the control box end. I downloaded the manual for Rogers Machine board and it is setup for a singled ended input so you would need to add a receiver at the control box for each encoder to convert it back to single ended. I am planning on contacting Rogers Machine to see if they may have a board available that will except a differential signal which would make things much easier. I will let you know what I find out.
Sam
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Sam,
Thank you very much for this information, I will also do some research into this upgrade path and post if I come up with anything that will help.
How is your conversion coming, if I remember you are converting an older Shopbot Pr correct?
The only thing left from the my original machine after my upgrade is some of the uni-struts, the only regret I have is that I didn't go with a geared motor.
My machine is much faster and more powerful now, and much more dependable due to using Mach3 but but my resolution is poor due to the direct drive( 20 tooth pinion 20 degree Racks).
So depending on what you want to produce on your machine keep this in mind.
If I do the encoder upgrade I will need new double shaft motors so I will go with a geared one at that time.
Tom
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Tom
Yes I am converting an older PR Shopbot. I am still getting the parts and pieces together so that I can do the upgrade at one time. We have been using the machine everyday so it is important to have as little downtime as possible. I am planning on using the original 3.6:1 belt reductions units that came with the machine. For this reason I have been trying to stay with the size 23 steppers. The Anaheim Automation stepper is a 24 size unit but has the same mounting dimensions as a 23 with 475 oz-in or torque.
Do you have any photos of your machine? I would be interested in seeing what you have done with yours. My upgrades are not written in stone so I am open for suggestions.
Thanks
Sam
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Hi Brian,
Glad I found this thread and especially the post about the encoders. I'm curious, and not knowing.....I have to ask. My current machine is an old Digital Tool machine using rack and pinion. Single ended steppers driving a transmission that sits on the rack. For this encoder system to work, would I need the encoders on the motors or on the pinion shaft that cogs in the rack?
Mike
ps would this same encoder setup work for a rotary 4th axis?
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Sam,
Follow this link for the latest pictures of my cnc upgrade http://www.accurate-inspections.com/pr cnc upgrade/
(http://www.accurate-inspections.com/pr cnc upgrade/)
I would love to see some pictures of your original 3.6:1 belt reductions units.
I have only heard of these as mine was cable driven.
Fell free to ask for more pictures or info if needed and I will post them to my site.
I am currently working on a blog site with my component info and pricing, but I am having problems posting pictures.
I will post the link when it is working.
Tom
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Tom
Thanks for the link to the photos. By adding the angle iron how much did it stiffen the carriage?
How do you like your Z axis? I had started to redesign my Z and it is almost identical to yours.
Here is a link to some photos of the belt reduction units?
http://wa3umc.com on the menu click on photography and then on photos when the photo page opens the photos will be under shop. If you have any problems let me know.
Thanks
Sam
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Tom
After reviewing your photos in more detail I have a few questions.
1) Did you do away with the holddowns for the carriages?
2) What is the pitch of the ballscrew on your Z?
3) From the photos it looks like the belt drive on your Z is a 1:1 ratio, is that correct?
4) How do you like the Keling Steppers?
Sam
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Sam,
1) With all the extra weight from the angle iron, new z axis and larger motors, and except for lowering the z into the spoil board I have not seen a need for the hold downs. Even though I do plan to do something in that area in the near future.
2) The ballscrew I got off of ebay came with no documentation, I just hooked it up and it worked. There are 5 threads per inch and I don't know how to determine pitch, but it takes a little over 4000 steps per unit in Mach3.
3) And yes it is 1:1 ratio belt drive
4) The quality and price of the steppers is excellent, but in my case if I had to do it again lacking gearboxes, for a little more money purchase a geared motor.
5) Yes the 1 1/2 inch angle iron stiffen the frame alot and I was able to use the original wheels over.
The whole conversion process took about four days to complete, as I also need my machine up and running quickly.
I basically did only as mush as I had to get the increase performance from my Ascension upgrade, this was just a learning process.
By the way thank you for your great pictures, I am in the process of designing my next machine and just might play with that option.
Again anyway I can help just ask, if you want to talk one on one send me your phone # (I have one of those local call anywhere lines) and we can talk.
Tom