Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: yakimaken on October 29, 2011, 10:07:56 AM
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I have a syil X-6 standard mill with the 1500w brushless motor and I am looking to replace it with something that works. Has anyone used the cnc spindles keling sells? They have a 3 hp with a vfd for around $650.00 the sanmutang motor and driverr I have
in the machine has not workeed right since day one. the machine is still under waranty but I am not looking for another junky motor. any ninput would be appreciated.
Thanks Ken
Specification
OD=80 mm x 180mm, Voltage: 220V
Speed: 6000-24000 R/min
Power: 1500 (2HP)W, Frequency:400 Hz
Water Cooling, ER11 collet chuck
Grease Lubrication, NSK Bearing, Runout off: less than 0.005mm
Water cooling about 20-26 gal/hr
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I have one of these on my CNC router. I don't know much about it other than it works flawlessly. Mine has some spindle runout so if you get one check that first. I have run mine for over 100 hours on a single program and no problems. I don't know what the setup is like for the inverter as mine came set from China.
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Thank you for responding. This spindle looks like my best option so far. We bought this machine in may to produce motorcycle parts for our buisness and it has about put us out of buisness and home, so we are deserate to get this machine useable and hopefully salvage the situation. Ken
There is no replacement for displacement
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These spindles are really designed for woodworking applications, and may not last long if cutting steel. I do know of one person who only cuts aluminum on his router and swears by them.
Most people buy them directly from China through Ebay. There are a large number of users on CNC Zone using them, but most use the 2.2KW version, as it has a larger ER20 collet. A small percentage of people have had trouble with them, but it seems that most work great. BUying from Keling will make it easier to return a bad one, but you'll pay more up front.
Also, most people recommend buying a good brand VFD, like a Hitachi, rather than the Chinese ones that typically come with those spindles. The Chinese VFD's are not very good quality.
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Yes, mine is the larger 2.2KW one with the ER20 collets. It would have enough power to cut aluminium at half speed, but there is no way that it will cut steel, don't even consider that. Most routers aren't rigid enough to cut aluminium other than sheet pattern work or very small cuts. For the VFD, it works without fault, have had no issues with it at all.
Why did the router about put you out of business if I may ask?
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The syil X-6 is a milling machine. I think what he means is that after the purchase price of the mill and all the other stuff you gotta have, he needs more income, rather than more downtime and expense.
Hard to imagine that the machine will not cut aluminum with the factory setup. That's allot of money for machinery that don't work as intended. What exactly are you trying to do with it, that it's falling short of expectations?
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We have a website where we sell billet aluminum mortorcycle parts for Buells and we also make billet alum emblems and accessories for cars. Every thing we make is from T6061. A 1/2" cutter is about the largest cutter that I use and for hogging I use a corncob. I am happy with the basic machine. The problem is in the cheap chinese electronics. It does not seem to matter how you tune the motor it has no torque. You can stop it with your hand. We bought the machine in May of this year and have allready went through 3 stepper motor drivers , we are on our second spindle drive board, the coolant motor was bad, the digital display has quit working even the switches and worklight have failed. I have worked with machines since 1985 and owned a large machine shop that recently fell victim to the economy and I have never seen so much fail on a single machine in so little time. I ran across a thread on here where the 1100w sanmutang motor and driver was being discussed. I believe the thread wqas started in 2008 sometime and the talk was about the problems they were having with that combination. The only difference with mine is the motor is a 1500w model. exact same driver board as the 1100w that keling sells. This unit exhibits the same problems. (1) no torque its a 2 hp brushless motor and you can stop it with your hand (2) The motor will just stop in the middle of a cut. It doesnt matter if you are using a 1/4" cutter and taking .010 at 8ipm. it will just stop running a program with no part in the machine.
I have rerouted and shielded the cables to prevent interferance from the cables that carry voltage. I am running a 6 core prosser at 3.2 ghz with 8 gig of ram windows Xp professional service pack 3. I have tried every kernel speed. The driver check utility gives me a execellent rating and the pulse stream looks beautiful even at 100khz. When it stops there is no indication of why it is happening. I have over $10.000 dollars worth of parts needing to be made to fill orders and a new machine that wont make parts and its killing me. I just purchased a C32 dual port board from CNC4PC to replace the bob in the machine and when I can I plan on some larger steppers an probably gecko drives.
If anyone knows of a fix for this I am all ears
Ken
There is no replacement for displacement
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I posted the wrong specs. it was the 2.2 kw spindle I was looking at.
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What does Syil have to say?
(;-) TP
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They have been replacing the parts . With the same parts. There is obviously a design flaw with the spindle controller as there has been from the start from what ai have been able to find out. Had I known this beforehand I would have gone a different route. I am going to propose to them to give me the cost of purchasing one of their motors and drives to use towards a suitable replacement. If the spindle motor setup is not practicle then maybe an ac servo drive and digital controller.
Ken
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I am afraid you are putting money into a bad idea by trying to FIX the problem. I would ask them politely to just refund your money. Take the loss and buy a real cnc machine. IF you are into making parts for a livin then spend the money to buy at least a Tormach or better a good used real world CNC machine such as a mini HAAS or a small fadal or something along those lines.
Tinker toys are NOT where you need to be trying to make a living.
Just a thought, (;-) TP
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You are right. I had a HAAS VF3 in my shop that I wish I had now. Unfortunately I lost everything when I lost my shop, so resources are quite low at the moment.
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The spindle thought you had with the keling won't do you any good, wrong application.
(;-) TP
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At this point my only option is to fix the problems with this machine. Machine envelope wise it is not much smaller than the Haas VF3 I had at my shop. With the large table they offer for it and some risers under the column it would have about the same as the VF3. It is very rigid, it weighs 1700 lbs with the right spindle motor and reliable electronics I believe it would be suitable for light production
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Why not adapt your own 3 phase motor to the current spindle, and use a quality VFD.
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OK, it's like I was saying. These spindle motors will NOT work for you. These are for machining at high speed, in soft materials like wood etc. If the original spindle motor was one of these then Sybil sold you a wrongly configured machine. You need a low speed spindle motor, something that has torque at maybe 1500 rpm for a 1/2" mill cutter. Chip size is an indication of what is going wrong there, I bet you had aluminium wool coming off the mill, far too fine, there were no real chips. Guessing you were trying to run the spindle at low speeds and that is right, there is NO torque down there, which is why a knee mill has mechanical gearing with belts etc.
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I must be missing something. Syil X6 spec, on their web site, shows R8 200-5000 RPM spindle. That's a long way from one of these 6000-24000 high speed spindles. I know nothing about Syil's, but something doesn't fit here.
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I think what he needs is to replace the existing motor with one that will actually WORK correctly. In this case not an easy feat. There may not be room for a 2hp 3ph ac motor to use with a VFD. AND the extra weight may be a problem for the Z.
Another option would be to use a DC motor 2hp. and control. (normally a smaller package, but expensive)
It sounds as thought the original control board for the motor was not set correctly, possible wrong amp setting(no torque).
(;-) TP
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The syil website specs on the x6 says 200 - 5000 but in reality the machine actually comes with the sangmutan 1500W motor and it runs from 400 -3500 rpm
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It not only has no torque it just shuts down in the middle of a cut randomly. It doesnt matter if you are cutting .001 " or .100 "
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The spindle drive looks like a ac servo drive system. If the settings for the PID are incorrect it will be WEAK and trip out all the time on following error. Are there ANY manual on the spindle drive?? Make and model Numbers??
Could be THAT simple, (;-) TP
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I cant under stand why you want to change the spindle on the X6. I have just purchased an X6 for making parts for motorcycles i have had no problems in cutting 6 mm thick 6082 aluminium plate for engine plates. What are the issues you have had with the machine ?
Regards John
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I had the same exact issues with my Sangmutan 1100 watt I bought from Keling. After waiting for a fix I finally asked for a refund which they did do and then replaced my motor with a 3 phase motor and VFD.
It's works fine except that I cheaped out and bought a borderline surplus 3/4 hp motor the first time. Get you a good 2hp baldor or marathon motor and a VFD Vector drive and install and that will fix your spindle issues.
I drill and tap holes with mine and have complete control over what it does. The Sangmutan, your leaving someone else in control and they are pretty non responsive about taking care of issues.
It not only has no torque it just shuts down in the middle of a cut randomly. It doesnt matter if you are cutting .001 " or .100 "
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Oh, earlier this year, Sangmutan had lots of problems with weak motors and controllers. Mid year they redesigned them and said they had them fixed. I bet you could push Syil into sending you a new style.
Richard
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Syil sent me the 2200Watt motor and updated driver board. This combination seems to work like it should. Seems to have plenty of torque, I tried to stop the spindle wearing a leather glove at 1000 rpm and it slowed down a couple hundrerd rpm then leveled out and I couldn't stop it like the 1500 Watt motor. I have only run a couple of parts so far and the performance of this 2200 watt motor has been good. 1/2: cutter .150 DOC at 45 IPM with no problems yet. I will post any problems if any arise.
Ken
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I want to thank everyone for all of the input. This is a great site for getting insight and support when you need it. It would have been nice to have such a resource available 25 years ago. I have to say that Syil handled the situation better than I had expected. They stood behind their product and made sure that the issues were taken care of in a timely fashion.
Ken