Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: Jennifer on November 13, 2010, 03:40:02 PM
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Hi There,
I have been going nuts trying to diagnose an issue with a - C35 - QUICK SETUP BREAKOUT BOARD - I can get Mach 3 to work just fine without the breakout simply by wiring my three controllers (X,Y,Z) directly to the parallel port. but when i use them in conjunction with the breakout board i get BUBKIS! i have tried both ways jumpering SCHP to both the On and Off configurations and enabling it in Mach3 on pin 17. Either way i do not get signal to the controllers. in fact zilch from the controllers. when i use the controllers direct via parallel port the three axis "lock up" and are ready for input from Mach3, when i use the breakout they move freely, nothing seemed to be coming from the controllers.
i have supplied the breakout with +5V clean DC, with up to 4amps if needed. the board's "power" led lights as well as the "output status" led if SCHP is disabled or of enabled and signal is present on pin 17. I have replaced the RJ45's cables that connect the board to the controllers and rang them thru with a VOM so i have eliminated bad cabling.
Could it just be a bad board? where do i look next? is there some definitive test for a breakout board? what is the meaning of life? HELP!!!!
Thanks,
Jen
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Could well be an issue with the BOB. I am not familiar with the CNC4PC stuff but I have read that often the optos can have issues on them. Whether yours has optos or not afraid I dont know but an email to Arturo may be the best way to go.
Hood
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Thanks Hood, who is Arturo?
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Arturo Duncan, the guy that makes the CNC4PC boards.
Hood
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Have you run 5vdc to the EN terminal (enable) without it the output will not work.
(;-) TP
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Thanks for the advice TP, I ran a jumper from EN to +5v, that was the first thing i did upon installation. i also checked that it was getting the correct voltage on the EN pin.
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Hi Jen,
At the risk of stating the obvious, are you certain that you are making the correct connections between your C35 and your stepper drivers ?.
Have you also checked that the active high / active low signal condition between Mach and your drivers is correct ?.
Tweakie.
nb. Meaning of life and purpose of life are the same thing and can't be discussed here without upsetting the moderators ;D
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Hi Tweakie,
Yes I verified the connections by "ringing thru" all eight pins on each of the three RJ-45 jumpers connecting the BOB to the controllers, even replaced all three of the jumpers to eliminate a "lossy" connection. they are "straight thru" CAT-6 cables as opposed to the ones that "cross over". Also i tried both methods of the active high and active low signal types from Mach-3. Because it works when i bypass the BOB i must assume that Mach-3 is doing it's job.
I ordered another BOB on Saturday, so by mid week should know if it is the BOB, unless i wind up with two bad boards from the same supplier.
I have only been playing with CNC for three or four weeks now, it is amazing how much knowledge i have been able to accumulate in this old brain in such a short time. the good part is i have been able to set up my router, have purchased the CAD software and am well into drafting the parts for my first CNC cut ukulele. That's right i am a luthier and inlay artist trying to bring my skill set into the 1990's.
what i would like to know is what the BOB expects in the way of input from the parallel port. is it just a nice square 5v "wave" for "step" and the same to change "dir"?
Perhaps i can use this as an excuse to buy myself a nice new O-Scope :P one of those digital recording ones. i have an old war surplus dual beam that world make a fine mooring for a small yacht. but it gets the job done.
one thing i did notice is that when i remove the 5v supply from the BOB and connect it to the parallel port the power led still lights on the BOB. I can only assume that it is usurping some power from the parallel port. Is this normal? the board does recognize when it is connected to the parallel port, because the "output status" led light goes hi when it is connected.
i remember an old shaggy dog joke regarding the meaning of life, it's punch line (after about ten minutes of rhetoric) was "Life is like a waterfall"
thanks everyone for your advise to this point, it is more than appreciated,
Jen
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Hi Jen,
Thought you would have tested the wires continuity and connection points but worth a try.
what i would like to know is what the BOB expects in the way of input from the parallel port. is it just a nice square 5v "wave" for "step" and the same to change "dir"?
The direction signal is either high or low and remains in it’s set state until another command tells it to change (axis move in opposite direction). The step signal is a square wave pulse which Mach allows to be altered in terms of width and active high/low.
Most BoB's require a 5 Volt peak to peak signal here and some computers, especially laptops, only output around 3.3Volts and these do cause problems.
Most PC parallel ports are more than capable of sourcing 10 mA per pin so would light your BoB leds but it is risky to over do it and possibly damage the port.
Just a thought here but have you tried Config / Ports and Pins - check the ‘Sherline ½ Pulse Mode’ box ? this alters the pulse width and may cause different results.
Lets hope it is the BoB and that your new one solves the problem.
Tweakie.
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Thanks once again,
I will try your suggested fix, and scope out the signal on the "step" pins just to see what is going on when i get home from the saltmine. I'll let yall know how i make out.
Also thanks for the note on the power led, i was worried that applying current to the power terminal from the seperate power supply I had fitted to the BOB could somehow feed back to the computer and cause an issue. I found a really clean switched power supply capable of a continuous 5A's in a nice small steel case for less than twenty bucks. when I scoped the output it had very little ripple.
Jen
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Hi there, I scoped out the three pins for "step" from my parallel port and had a fairly square wave, a little slope was present especially on the signal hi to low part of the wave but nothing to write home about, but worth mentioning here. there is nothing but very low voltage (less than .15v) "noise" on the BOB's output. I am at a loss. the best thing to do at this point is wait for the replacement board to come and see what happens when i replace it.
Thanks everyone for your help to up to this point, keep those suggestions coming.
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Does your ground pass thru from your parallel port to your RJ45 connector? Do you have +5v at the RJ45?
Is the power supplied to the BOB at the connector next to the EN pin?
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Jen,
You should have contacted me if you were having trouble with this.
From what I understand the problem is that step and direction signals are not getting to driver. Here are some things to keep in mind:
- There is an LED that shows the status of the outputs, it should be lit. This tells us that the signals from the parallel port are getting to the driver (or any other output device). What is the status of this LED?
- 3 conditions must be met to enable the outputs:
o The board needs to be connected to a parallel port. There is a watchdog using pins 18 and 19.
o There should be +5vdc on the EN terminal, use the terminal next to it to source the +5vdc to be sure.
o The Safety Charge Pump must be disabled or enabled and active in the controller. I suggest for trouble shooting purposes, to leave it disabled for now.
- Are you sure you are connecting the correct step and direction signals? It is very common to confuse the pin order in the RJ45 connector. The first revision of one of our manuals had them backwards, that confused a lot of people.
- What drivers are you using? Are you sure you are connecting the correct common for the drivers?
- We offer driver connector boards, which ease the connection to the driver. Especially when using servos, with complex enable/disable and driver monitoring features: http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/index.php?cPath=33_59
- You can always put a scope, or by using a multimeter, you can see that the direction terminal is changing stats.
Please check this and let me know how it goes.
Arturo Duncan
http://cnc4pc.com
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Thanks Arturo,
Thanks for your advice, yes i have insured that all of the conditions you mention are correct. When i bought the BoB i also purchased the RJ-45 connector boards for the controllers. I have "rung thru" all the pins on the cables to ensure that i had good connections from the BoB and the controllers. it is very puzzling. the only thing left is the board itself. I have even gone as far as attaching an o-scope to the parallel port to ensure that the signals generated by the computer via Mach3 are of the correct wave shape, duration and voltage.That's why i ordered another board from you. when it gets here i suspect the problem will be cured. if not i will contact you. the price is so reasonable it is not worth returning it. It should finally be here today (Friday) or tomorrow at the latest.
The router works perfectly when i bypass the breakout board, so i can assume that the controllers are working as designed. They are very common controllers, these were purchased from Keling as model 4030's, but i have seen them for sale under a number of brand names. they are the black metal type that have ten dip switches to control the stepping and ate current to the motors. The BoB "output" light does work, and i have tried both ways with the charge pump in use and not in use, on pin 17 i believe.
thanks for posting your reply,
Jen
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One more thing:
I did use both a VOM and an O-Scope on the BoB, i get zero output from it. also teh "output" status led does change when i disconnect the BoB from the parallel port, so some of the logic circuts of the BoB are "alive".
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I only suggested checking the grounds because when i connected my board (C11G) I did not
realize my amps had both a signal ground and power ground that were not connected internally.
I got lights but no action. If you do not have +5v on pin 5 of your RJ45 then you will not enable
your amps and I believe you are right about a blown chip.
I hope you have better luck with your next board.
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Thanks Richard,
the new board finally arrived on Saturday, i will install it tonight and see what happens. stay tuned for the answer.
Jen
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Jen,
The important thing is that you confirm the step, direction, and enable are getting to the driver.
You did not say if the EN (enable) terminals in the Keling drivers were getting +5vdc. The C35 should do a hardware enable on this driver. Use a multimeter on the terminals of the driver to confirm this.
Remember that the dir terminals are easier to measure on the driver; they should change states as you change direction. Use Dir+ and Dir- to measure this.
I appreciate your feedback.
Arturo Duncan
http://cnc4pc.com
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Arturo,
if you mean the stepper motor controller when you say "driver" then the answer is definately no, nothing is comming out of the old BoB. i will know the answer tonight when i have some time to mess around with it. I am hoping the new board cures the problem. i have correct voltages and wave form comming out of the parallel port, when connected directly the controllers they work just fine. All necessary voltages and signals are going into the BoB, but nothing comes out of it. I am almost willing to bet a dinner on it. but it could still be something really silly that i have overlooked.
most of my low level electronice experience involves RF circut design and construction, from my ham radio interests. while this device is quite simple, i cannot say i am very experienced on these logic devices. It seems easy enough, basically a signal goes in and a matching, but isolated from the source signal should come out. i have validated that the correct signals are going in along with the proper support voltages to run the board. the little LED that says signals are comming out is lit, yet there is nothing reaching the controllers (drivers?). it pretty much must be either the board or the wiring. i have used those cute rj-45 boards that match the BoB, that is a nice touch and why i bought that particular board. I have replaced the rj45 jumpers twice, even crimped my own one time. i have "rung thru" every lead on the RJ-45 jumpers several times. It almost has be a board level issue.
again thanks for all your interest, this forum has a bunch of really nice people who are most helpful. It is nice to find people willing to take their time to help a stranger.
Jen
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Jen,
If you are not even getting the enable terminal, I doubt it would be something associated with the board. This is enabled just by sending +5vdc and it's ground from the BOB. If it was not for this, I would suggest you check the guide on troubleshooting chips: http://www.cnc4pc.com/Store/osc/product_info.php?cPath=38_66&products_id=298.
If this does not work with the new board, it is better we go over this over the phone. I will not be available on the phone this afternoon, but do expect to be in all day tomorrow.
Arturo Duncan
http://cnc4pc.com
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Thanks,
unfortunately i work a day job, so i probably will not get to it until after 6pm. if the new board does not work i will set up a time to trouble shoot it with you.
Jen
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It Worked!!!
it was the board after all. I plugged in the new Breakout Board and it worked perfectly
- THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR HELP -
This has been a positive experience for me, i learned a lot more about the nitty gritty of electro mechanics than i ever wanted, had fun doing it and got to meet a nice supportive community of people. Who could ask for more out of a hobby. Now if i can figure out how to....... well that's another thread :)
thanks again,
Jen
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Jen,
This is the first time I hear someone enjoying having a problem:) I understand, I have been there. It feels so good to overcome a challenge.
I appreciate if you can send the board back. I would really like to take a look at it. I can refund it, or replace it, or whatever you want.
Please contact me offline: aduncan@cnc4pc.com
Arturo Duncan
http://cnc4pc.com
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thanks for all the help aruturo,
It was weird, i switched back to the old board last night just for fun, it did not work as i expected. Perhaps it has something to do with my parallel port. it only outputs 3.3v on the pins that provide the signals to it. I think that it may be there just was not enough current do drive it. I have two seperate power supplies to run the setup, one 24v for the controllers and a 5v one just to power the BoB. maybe the difference in voltages has an effect. i do not know how the logic detects a "high" status. if it compares the reference 5v to the ports 3.3v to determine if a pin is in a "High" state then it could be the culprit. Any way the problem is solved. I will keep the old board for spare parts, your prices are so reasonable it would cost us both more time and effort then it is worth to return it.
Jen
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Jen,
All our boards have buffered signals. They will take the 3.3v signal and draw from the parallel port less than 0.02mA. So they will work with any parallel port.
From what you say I believe a chip might get damaged on the board. When this happens usually some of the I/Os do not work, and the ones that work might have problems. Because if a chip is damaged it can create an internal short that draws power, leaving other chips underpowered. It is very strange in your case that signals like the driver enable were not working.
I appreciate if you can send me the serial # on the board so can look up the inspection record. I only found you in our database with the order of the second board. Where did you get the first one from?
Arturo Duncan
http://cnc4pc.com
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Arturo,
I thought I bought it from CNC4PC.com along with three of the little RJ45 boards, perhaps i am mistaken. It is so easy to order something on-line, a couple clicks and it shows up on your doorstep with no farther thought.
I love the way the RJ45 boards are even labeled with the correct descriptors for the controllers I use. I will get you the serial number when i get home from my day job, unless it was on a sticker, I have a habit of peeling off stickers from stuff i buy.
You would think that i would get enough self abuse being an applications developer let alone messing with a PC during my time off.
Jen
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Just a thought. Pin 17 is associated with the charge pump on my board. In the middle of the BOB is a jumper on the charge pump portion. Make sure the jumper is between jumper 1-2 for disable. It is a physical tiny jumper you will need to move.