Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: kolias on September 05, 2009, 07:36:19 PM
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Just downloaded Cambam and gMax free versions. They both seems good 3D software
Anyone with Pros / Cons for each?
Nicolas
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I'm not sure what you are after as they are completely different types of software. CamBam generates G-code from existing models/drawings, GMax is a 3D modeling package.
After a lot of requests by my customers I spent a few months reviewing all the CAD/CAM packages in the 'hobbyist' price range, CamBam was my favorite as it is easy to use, produces good code, and does both 2D and 3D. I liked it so much that I now sell it! For 3D modeling it is hard to beat MOI: http://moi3d.com/. It works great and it is easy to use. I like to use AutoDesk Inventor too but it is WAY more expensive.
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There is a plugin for gmax called cnc toolkit, I believe. I would suspect that unless you already have experience with polygonal modeling, there would be a steep learning curve associated with it, and that might be time that's better invested in another more capable or user friendly program. It's been a few years since I've messed with it, so it may have advanced by leaps and bounds as far as I know.
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Thank you both
Sorry I didn’t explain before but as a CNC beginner I know that in the future I would like to work on 2D /3D models and therefore I’m looking for an easy and FREE 2D / 3D software which can either generate gCode or make DXF files.
Gmax has a nice and easy interface but does not make what I want so it’s out of my list. The CNC ToolKit is not free.
CamBam also has a nice and easy interface and fits my needs nicely. So I may stick with it.
I also have Acad V14 but never used it for 3D modeling. In addition I don’t like Acads interface.
I also have Blender 2.48a and I used this software for modeling and animation about 4 years ago. Very difficult to learn but once you get used to it, I find it beautiful FREE 3D software. In addition it used to have a very helpful and extensive forum and lots of free tutorials on the web.
Don’t know very much about CamBam and therefore I will have to work with it a bit more to decide between it and Blender
Nicolas
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I’m back at this subject because I would like to give another try to make my own 2D/3D images.
In the last month I evaluated Sheetcam, Mashcan, and Cut2D/3D but I was not comfortable to choose either and so I ended up purchasing the LazyCam Pro which for now seems to fill my needs. To be honest, I must say that I like very much the LC interface and I probably would have spent more to purchase it; at $75.00 it was a real bargain for me.
So now that I have LC to make my gcode I’m looking to get some free CAD programs to gain more experience generating my own 2D/3D images.
I came across the cnc4free.org site and there is a fairly big download in the Tutorials section called “The Free Creative CNC Solution”. The tutorial is pretty good describing how to use GIMP & GMax to create whatever you want. There is also the “CNC_Toolkit” plugin for GMax but have not been able to get that plugin despite that I followed all the links and register in the Yahoo groups as you supposed to do to get it.
Searching this forum I also found a thread about Blender and now I know that Blender, although an excellent free 3D program has some limitation exporting dxf files.
Has anyone used the Gimp / Gmax programs?
Any suggestions for other similar programs?
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If you're a member of the Yahoo group, this should get you the CNC_Toolkit.
http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/QICXTWrHx_XLwA6KiL73AFK60GazWQl3_qy4ekB2Pr2A6snFR9VAQwTkVyKhVlmAc_sTY7MM6cKCptILwDN7OmXkAh3A55SHkQ/LatestBeta/4.30L.ms
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Gerry that link only wants to open the file “4.03L.ms
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I believe that IS the CNC Toolkit.
Here's the basic instructions to get started:
Copy the script to your script directory, i.e.. C:\3DSMAX\Scripts.
Run the script from Menu, MaxScript, RunScript. On any error just run the script again.
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Thanks Gerry, I got it
Found the attached info on the web, and along with the 4.30L.ms I now have the CNCToolkit control panel on Gmax
Diving into unknown grounds here but its worth to give it a crack
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Cambam has a lot to offer for the money and just today i was looking at it since it's developing Lathe capability.
For 3d stuff i am using AutoCad to create STL files and then using MeshCam to generate the code.
Every "free" program i have tried is always limited in some manner and after a while it becomes a PITA trying out different software.
That said i guess it depends what your used to. But if you have no CAD then one needs to explore for a program that makes up for it.
Of course cost enters into software and as the saying goes.........YOU CAN HAVE ANYTHING YOU WANT FROM THE SELF BUT ONCE YOU SELECT THE ITEM YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR IT!
RICH
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I know about the PITA effect RICH and I may waste my time with the free stuff.........
But I got to get a crack at it to find out IF I can do this stuff and IF I like it and so on. No point to spend money up front and then realise that I dont like to get involved with it.
What I like about Gmax/Gimp is that they both have a lot of tutorials. After I do a few of them, I should be able to decide if I like this type of work or not.
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Since GMax does not make dxf files I have started practicing in my Acad V14 and after a week or so I have made a good progress making various shapes and exporting the dxf to LC and making some nice cuts with Mach3.
However I think Acad, or at least the old version I have, is limited in making anything more than shapes. I mean if I wanted to draw up an animal or flower or some other artistic shape I find it difficult to do it with Acad and perhaps this is due to my limited experience with Acad.
Can someone tell me if Acad V14 is suitable for any artistic design? If not what is my alternative?
For now I’m interested in 2D and later of course I will venture to 3D
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Most people would have trouble drawing artistic things in any program. And a really good artist can probably use Excel to draw artistic things.
But realistically, you'd probably be better off using Corel Draw, Illustrator, or Inkscape for stuff like that. And if you do a lot of "drawing", you might want to consider a pen and tablet, which is about 100 times better than drawing with a mouse.
Fwiw, the 2D drawing tools in Acad 14 are pretty much the same as the ones in 2010, and even newer. Most of the changes from R14 to 2006 were productivity related, and from 2006-2010, a lot of 3D functionality was added. I haven't looked at 2011 or 2012 yet. :)
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Thanks Gerry for the info and I agree but perhaps I should have clarified what I’m after.
I know about Corel Draw & Illustrator and the pen tablet, as a matter of fact I do have a pen tablet which I got it back in 2005 when I bought my Paint Shop AE7 but back then I didn’t know about CNC and I used my artistic skills to produce items with my printer just for fun.
Perhaps I’m wrong but I don’t think any of this software can produce dxf files which are needed by LazyCam. I know for fact that my Paint Shop can produce more than a dozen of different graphic files but dxf is not among them and the export function includes another half a dozen file formats but dxf is not there.
My experience is limited in this area but as far as I know I need graphics software which will produce dxf files since LazyCam can only accept dxf. Perhaps LazyCam is my limitation? If I had another CAM software I would have a wider choice of files than just dxf?
I’m sure that there must be a lot of CNC users out there who make and cut their own artistic drawings and I wonder what software they use. So if I want to make my own drawings in dxf format what would you suggest? And it doesn’t have to be free software.
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How about drawing with anything you already have (Corel X5 sounds good if you are looking for something new) then converting the drawing to .dxf format using Inkscape http://inkscape.org/ ;)
Tweakie.
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Nicolas,
What i do is draw the item freehand on a sheet of paper, scan the sketch and then bring the sketch ( bmp / jpg or whatever ) into CAD and draw over it.
This alows you to control the machining pathing and minimize machining time and you get a DXF for importing to LC. If your wanting to have it more automated or want 3d then you need different software.
RICH
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Rich,
What CAD do you use to get your .dxf to import to LC ?
Tweakie.
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Tweakie,
Autocad or Microstation but mostly Autocad and it's saved as a version 12DXF.
RICH
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Perhaps I’m wrong but I don’t think any of this software can produce dxf files which are needed by LazyCam. I know for fact that my Paint Shop can produce more than a dozen of different graphic files but dxf is not among them and the export function includes another half a dozen file formats but dxf is not there.
My experience is limited in this area but as far as I know I need graphics software which will produce dxf files since LazyCam can only accept dxf. Perhaps LazyCam is my limitation? If I had another CAM software I would have a wider choice of files than just dxf?
Actually, they all can save .dxf files. With a couple of exceptions.
1) Don't use any gradients or fills, because sometimes they'll be saved as thousands of line segments that you'll need to remove. Use vector tools only.
2) The major one, is that a lot of them have very poor .dxf export. This is mainly due to the fact that these programs draw with splines, or bezier curves, which don't translate well to .dxf. But there are workarounds. If using Corel, there is a .dxf exporter specifically for CNC use. It's $60
http://www.coreldrawtools.com/standard/index.html
If using Inkscape, there are several .dxf exporters for CNC use that work much better than the built in one. I haen't used them, but this one is supposed to work good.
http://www.bigbluesaw.com/saw/big-blue-saw-blog/general-updates/big-blue-saws-dxf-export-for-inkscape.html
You can always export from Illustrator or Corel into Inkscape in a neutral format (.eps or .ai?) and use the free Inkscape export.
Personally, I do what Rich does, and use AutoCAD. Import an image, and scale it to the size I want it. Then use a combination of polylines, arcs, and splines to trace the image. For complex curves, I just trace a quick spline, and then drag the nodes around to get it where I want it. When done, delete the image, and save as .v12 dxf.
When using splines in AutoCAD, I prefer to use an AutoLISP program to convert the splines into polylines. This gives more control over the # of segments you'll end up with, allowing for smoother "curves" then what you can get when saving as .v12 dxf (which converts splines to polylines during export).
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Some good ideas here and thank you all
Tweakie that was a very good idea because I didn’t know that Inkscape can convert to dxf. I checked my copy of Inkscape and it does export to dxf and so that is a very good alternative which I will investigate further. Don’t know why I didn’t see this before
RICH that is also a good idea and I do the same but in a different way !!! I draw my sketch in a transparent piece of paper, then I attach it to my screen with masking tape and then in Acad I use the Point command to mark X’s under the paper and then I use polylines to connect the X’s. It works well but it’s not perfect. My Acad can only open DWG or DXF files and under the Insert Menu I have 8 options to open different files but non works. But I just experimented and the Windows Meta File Option and it works and since my Paint Shop Program can export WMF I will also investigate this option also.
My Acad is an office controlled version which means that the IT people in the place I used to work they were installing software in our laptops depending in our function and since I was only needing Acad to just open and see the dwgs, I don’t have all the features of Acad. That is the reason in my Insert Menu most of the items don’t work and also I don’t have the Rendering and who knows what else LOL
Gerry I will follow your instructions but getting Corel will be my last option since I already have Paint Shop which I know fairly well and Inkscape which I have to learn. The links you provide sound good and thanks.
I try not to use splines in my Acad because when I try to edit the spline my Acad hangs and I loose all my work – don’t know why.
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If you have Paint Shop Pro, I believe it's more of a photo editing app, like Photoshop, which works with bitmap type images. You need to use a vector based program.
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I prefer to use an AutoLISP program to convert the splines into polylines. This gives more control over the # of segments you'll end up with, allowing for smoother "curves" then what you can get when saving as .v12 dxf (which converts splines to polylines during export).
Gerry, Where can I find a copy of this LISP script? Looks interesting.
Thanks
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If you have Paint Shop Pro, I believe it's more of a photo editing app, like Photoshop, which works with bitmap type images. You need to use a vector based program.
Gerry you are probably right, I have to investigate that
Thanks
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I have the Jasc Paint Shop Pro 7.04 and looking at it again it works with both raster and vectors. I picked up a preset shape (an 8 spike wheel) and when I save it there is a tick box called “save as vector” and I click it. Then saved the file in WMF and in Acad I insert this file. Now in Acad I used the explode command and then PE/Joint and selected all parts. Then Explode again and save it as DXF. LC pick it up nicely and I did a simulated cut with Mack3 and all worked fine.
So now I will work to explore further the Paint Shop program and see how I can fit it to my needs. It also has Bazier Lines and with them its very easy to make artistic whatever. A few years back when I went to check for upgrades, Jasc Paint Shop was purchased by Corel and I didn’t liked their version so I stayed with my version.
If Paint Shop does not fit my needs I will investigate Inkscape
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Have been working with Inkscape / Paint Shop and my results are mixed
First I think Inkscape is an image manipulation program because creating dxf with Inkscape dxf or big blue dxf does not work in Acad, I mean Acad reads nothing
With the Paint Shop the results are much better but still not that good and I think the problem is that I have to export the file in WMF and this format changes a lot of things. I can import all items in Acad and the shapes are ok but the fonts are out of alignment and size by a lot. Then in LazyCam I can Import the dwg and all is ok but the layers are not maintained and the fonts again are not good. All that means a lot of work and the results are half disappointing.
So my question again: what program(s) you guys using to make your dwgs and exporting them to your CNC?
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First I think Inkscape is an image manipulation program because creating dxf with Inkscape dxf or big blue dxf does not work in Acad, I mean Acad reads nothing
No, Inkscape is a vector drawing program.
Many programs that save .dxf files don't write them the way AutoCAD expects them. I've gotten .dxf files from many different programs that AutoCAD can't open.
Have you tried loading the .dxf's from Inkscape directly into LazyCAM?
There are some other .dxf exporters that may work better for you,
http://www.britishideas.com/2008/09/04/using-inkscape-for-cnc-designs-and-dxfs/
http://mydxf.blogspot.com/2008/11/inkscape-r12-dxf.html
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Thanks Gerry for the help, I downloaded from the links the files and I will give them a try later
It’s encouraging to know that Inkscape is a vector program because I like it and now I have to learn it.
Yes that’s what I did, loading the dxf’s from Inkscape to LazyCam and all works fine except the fonts. But I forgot that they say to convert all objects to paths before saving and so now I did it and it’s much better.
Thanks again
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Anyone uses this CAD / CAM package?
http://www.artcamexpress.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=69%3Aartcam-express-free-trial-software-download&catid=17&Itemid=17
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Not sure if you noticed, but while the basic package is $150, when you add all the optional modules, the price jumps to $3500.
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Noticed that afterwords Gerry, a very expensive program
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Rhino has very good DXF output. That's what I've been using for years to draw. I do as others have stated. Place a bitmap in the background and draw over it. I've never had a problem importing the exported DXF's into either AutoCAD or SheetCAM. I have an older version of Artcam Pro. Very cool program for dimensional signs and artistic machining but not so great for precision machining.
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Nicolas,
What i do is draw the item freehand on a sheet of paper, scan the sketch and then bring the sketch ( bmp / jpg or whatever ) into CAD and draw over it.
This alows you to control the machining pathing and minimize machining time and you get a DXF for importing to LC. If your wanting to have it more automated or want 3d then you need different software.
RICH
Rich,
Do you add dimensions to your sketches before you scan, or dimension after you import to your CAD?
I had to dope slap myself for not thinking of the draw/scan/import option!!
Rex
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Rex,
Most of the time I will take a high resolution picture. Then i will measure some part, or critical points and use that to scale up what is drawn over the BMP
or JPG. You can do some very accurate work based on the picture.
Here is link to some examples using the above:
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,13398.msg87922.html#msg87922
RICH
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Thanx for the shortening of my CAD/CAM learning curve, Rich!!
Rex
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If you work with smaller parts, you can scan them with a flatbed scanner and get very good results. Scanners, unlike a camera, are free from parallax, and will give great accuracies. Normally I will scan with 1200 or more dpi, then import the picture and scale to 8.5 x 11.7 in my cad, and the dimensions are spot on. Other parts that are unscannable, I do what Rich does. Works great.
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Another method which gives you Gcode directly is with CopyCat. You use a webcam to trace out the profile. It also is quite accurate. For info see
the write up in Memebrs Docs on using CopyCat.
RICH