Machsupport Forum

Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: compmedic on January 11, 2009, 12:13:16 AM

Title: New User Needs Help With Set-Up Problems!!!!!!!!
Post by: compmedic on January 11, 2009, 12:13:16 AM

I have a Zenbot router with a xylotex controller but im having a few problems. As far as i know i have all the pins set-up correctly.
I can jog around with it. But when i load a part file then the part picture is off to the side of my table outline. See Example.
Also i need help with touching off my tools or something because my z axis doesnt come down while running and the tool is off table a little bit.
Please Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Im dying to start using this machine. Over-excited you could say.

Thanks for any and all support.

Darren

P.S. I forgot to mention that the machine does not have limit switches. I might need help with homing.

Title: Re: New User Needs Help With Set-Up Problems!!!!!!!!
Post by: Chip on January 11, 2009, 12:32:23 AM

Hi, Darren

Post your dxf & G-code files for the part your wanting to cut.

What program are you using to generate your G-code.

Chip

Title: Re: New User Needs Help With Set-Up Problems!!!!!!!!
Post by: compmedic on January 11, 2009, 01:17:22 AM

Right now im not using anything special code or generator. Im justing loading the sample G-code "roadrunner" to test.
I just played with the settings and was able to make my table bigger or adjust them to where the roadrunner is on the table but i loaded some other samples and they were way off. Plus i forgot to mention sometimes (depending on my settings) my machine tries to go further than what it can.

Title: Re: New User Needs Help With Set-Up Problems!!!!!!!!
Post by: Chip on January 11, 2009, 02:02:23 AM

Hi, Darren

If your trying the Roadrunner file, It starts at the bottom left corner, Jog your router to the left bottom corner of your material then bring the cutter to just barley above the top of the material, Use the ReffAll button to zero all axises.

You should be ready to cut, You may need to override the feed-rate if it to fast depending on your cutter your using and the depth your trying to cut.

If it's to big for your table you can scale it down with the scale x y settings on the program run screen.

On the Tool-Path screen you can see the max size of the part size Info. top right.

Let us now how it goes.

Chip

Title: Re: New User Needs Help With Set-Up Problems!!!!!!!!
Post by: compmedic on January 11, 2009, 12:56:42 PM

Is there a screenshot button in Mach3? If there is or i find a way then i'll make one and post it.

Title: Re: New User Needs Help With Set-Up Problems!!!!!!!!
Post by: compmedic on January 11, 2009, 01:04:38 PM

Here is a screenshot of my toolpath and home/soft limits. Like i said earlier i dont have any home or limit switches but this is where i entered my table size as far as i could figure out. My table size is: 6x-8y-3z

Title: Re: New User Needs Help With Set-Up Problems!!!!!!!!
Post by: Chip on January 11, 2009, 01:34:48 PM

Hi, Darren

If you don't have limit switches it's a Paine to setup soft limits and such, Just use the Program Limits on the Tool-Path screen to check the size of the item your wanting to cut to see if it will fit your table, Jog your router to the start corner of your material and Ref-All-Home in relationship as to the start point.

I've sent you a PM massage, Click on Messages top left of this page.

Chip

Title: Re: New User Needs Help With Set-Up Problems!!!!!!!!
Post by: compmedic on January 11, 2009, 10:26:20 PM

Hi Chip, thanks for all the Help. As you probably already know i have another question. Please look at the screenshot.
If you can't see it all too good then let me know.

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Title: Re: New User Needs Help With Set-Up Problems!!!!!!!!
Post by: docltf on January 12, 2009, 12:52:15 AM

since you don't have hard limits you have to check your table for for travel clearance for every program.then zero X and Y.you can't run a program larger than your machine.
after you load a program switch to your toolpath menu and check your travel distances and compare them to you physical machine.

Title: Re: New User Needs Help With Set-Up Problems!!!!!!!!
Post by: Hood on January 12, 2009, 06:45:31 AM

I think you are attempting to use the table view to line your work but unless you have home switches you cant do that. Well you can but what you will have to do is move the table fully X and Y minus so that the head is at the corner of the work area then press the Ref All button. You will need to do that each time you start Mach. If you dont do that then there is no way Mach will know where the machine position is and thus no way of it knowing where the travel boundaries are.
 If you dont want to do that then you will need to forget about using the travel boundaries in the toolpath view and just do as has been said above.
Hood

Title: Re: New User Needs Help With Set-Up Problems!!!!!!!!
Post by: Chip on January 12, 2009, 12:49:03 PM

Hi, Darren

Looks like your axises are reversed or flipped, You can change this with settings in Home & Limits page "Reversed" column.

If the axies aren't moving the correct amount less or more, You'll need to adjust the "Steps Per" settings in Motor Tuning page.

Chip

Title: Re: New User Needs Help With Set-Up Problems!!!!!!!!
Post by: compmedic on January 22, 2009, 12:28:14 AM

Hi, sorry i have been away for awhile. I just started my classes for machining and havent had much time.
I havent had much time to fool around with mach3 either. I will try to get back to my machine this weekend.
I think my next step is cad/cam software questions. Should i post those here or start a new post?
Thanks for all the help fellow Mach'ers!

Title: Re: New User Needs Help With Set-Up Problems!!!!!!!!
Post by: jimpinder on January 22, 2009, 04:12:24 AM

I can understand your enthusiasm to get going, but unless you spend a little time understanding the basics, you will just cause yourself a lot of heartache.

The prolem is all covered in the video tutorials, if you spend a evening watching those - HOWEVER -

I will try and get you started on the basics.

Your problem is that your machine is not in sync with your program.

I don't know what program you are trying to do, but it will have a 0.0.0 position. You must put the machine is the correct position.

The machine has two sets of DRO's (Digital Read Outs) to tell you the position of the axis. These are both of the same display.
If you press Machine Co-ordinates button, the led surround will light, and the display will show the machine co-ordinates of the machine - sounds odd - but these are the co-ordinates by which Mach3 keeps track of exactly where the machine is at any time. These are normally linked to Home Switches, which you say you do not have, but - no matter - if you press "Ref All Home" you will see the display go to 0.0.0. As far as the machine knows - it is home. The zeroing of these DRO's (in fact the only way to zero these DRO's when you have home switches fitted,)  is to hit the home switches. The exact position of these switches is not important. It is just a place to which the machine will return, reliably, time after time.

The display you use when running programs is the Program Co-ordinates display. This is tied to your program, and the machine must be told where the 0.0.0 position for the program is. As someone said, this is normally, but not always, at the bottom left hand corner of your table (or work piece). If you press the Machine Co-ordinates button, the led will go out and the display will now show Program Co-ordinates.

The displays might be the same, but probably not.

Jogg your table to the 0.0.0 position of your program. How accurately you do this depends on what you are doing. If it is a one off test piece, then it is not too important. If you are going to run 5000 pieces off, then you need to start spot on, and be able to place each work piece exactly in the same place. For now, put a small drill or something in the chuck, and the move the table so the drill is above the bottom left hand corner of the table. We will call that 0.0 for X and Y - Z will come in a minute.

Zero the X and Y DRO's by pressing the zero x and zero y buttons.

Your program co-ordinates are now set, and 0.0 is the position at the bottom left hand corner of the table.

From here you can run all sorts of tests. Try jogging each axis + or - and see if they are travelling in the right direction. Try entering on the MDI line a few simple commnds like G0 x2 and see if X travels the right way, G0 X0 should take it back to where it came from. Similarly with Y. You must get each axis travelling in the right direction and the jogging buttons set up to match before you start.

Remember in milling the X and Y movement are in relation to the movement of the cutter NOT the table.

From here the world is your oyster.

We will ignore the niceties, such as backlash etc. and run in your program. The toolpath should now show the program on the table (if it is big enough) with the 0.0 position at the bottom left. To set the Z height - this depends on where the Z height is in your program. Normally this is touching the top of the workpiece, so jogg your Z axis down to the top of the work - and then 0 the Z axis.

Your machine is now ready to start.

Once you have set the 0.0.0 position of each axis (and not necessarily all at once) then anywhere you move will be remembered by the machine and a G0 X0 Y0 Z0 will bring the cutter back to the bottom left hand corner, resting on the workpiece.

If you press the Machine Co-ordinates button, then you will see that the display changes from your 0.0.0 to whatever. This is the offset your program has from the machines 0.0.0 position and if you look on the offset table you will see G54 reflects those offsets.This is not important until you fit home switches, and it is intended for those places doing runs of different programs, where the machine can be homed to a known position. The offset G54 (or one of the other 250 odd offsets available) are included at the beginning of the program, and the machine then automatically goes to the correct position for that program. We are not there yet.

If you are at 0.0.0 and the workpiece is in press the cycle start and see what happens. Kepp you fingers out of the way - or better still, take the cutter out of the holder, and replace it with a bit of flexible tube, when you run first time, until you are sure you have it set up right.

Title: Re: New User Needs Help With Set-Up Problems!!!!!!!!
Post by: compmedic on January 22, 2009, 12:08:26 PM

Thanks for the help and the reply. You worded where a new person like me would understand.
Unfortunately im already past that point. Chip helped me get all that info down. Now im to the point of trying to make a
drawing fit my table??? Also i would like whatever project to be started in the middle of the table unless im routing mutiple pieces
at once??? Any help on this?? Is it possible to resize other drawings to fit my table??


Thanks,
Darren

P.S. I have watched the video tutorials, it either didnt tell me or i missed it.

Title: Re: New User Needs Help With Set-Up Problems!!!!!!!!
Post by: jimpinder on January 24, 2009, 03:26:36 AM

You can make your 0.0.0 point in your GCode program at any point on the finished item you want. So, if for your particular job, coding it from the centre is more convenient, then do so.

All that remains, when running the program, is to set the machine at the correct place for it to start. The centre of the table is "a little unusual" -  (awaits a barrage of posts saying that is where we always start) - and if you are going to do multiple numbers of the same, then how to fix that position.

With home switches, it would be easy. Home to the home switches, then use an offset to locate the centre of the table. You could drill a small hole in the centre of the table using the spindle, then locate a rod into the hole before starting the job. This would ensure you always start from the same position.

Mach 3 has a system of "sizing" the axis, and if your GCode is too big, then you can run, and Mach will produce a smaller version. If you are talking of reducing diagrams to a workable size before you produce the GCode, them I am not the man - I write most of my own GCode for the engineering items I make.

As far as I can see, you have two choices - reduce the drawing in size to fit your table, then use a CAD/CAM program to GCode it for you, or produce the GCode from the drawing and use Machs "size" feature to cut it down for you.

The second option is quite simple, really and is all to do with he pulses per unit put out to your motors. You have set them to an "inch" but you could set them to 1/2inch (divide by two) a foot (multiply by 12) a millimetre (divide by 25.4) or any other size e.g. a "handspan" and the machine wouldn't know, it just works on the numbers.

See "scaling up an old program"  further down the main page

Title: Re: New User Needs Help With Set-Up Problems!!!!!!!!
Post by: cfell on January 24, 2009, 08:05:02 AM

Daren,

Does the program have a G54 (or any G5* series) command in it?  Using a work offset has advantages but can toss you a curve in the beginning.

Charlie

Title: Re: New User Needs Help With Set-Up Problems!!!!!!!!
Post by: compmedic on January 24, 2009, 03:22:12 PM

What is Mach's size feature? How do i use it?

As far as G54 or any G5 series......I dont know. I havent technically stuck to a certain CAD program but
i am learning to use AutoCad in college right now. As you know Autocad is expensive so i do i have a free program called
CADSTD. I might use TurboCAD or something to that effect.

Title: Re: New User Needs Help With Set-Up Problems!!!!!!!!
Post by: Hood on January 24, 2009, 03:31:42 PM

Scaling I think is what Jim was meaning by the size feature. They are the DROs at the side of the main axis DROs and if you enter 0.5 in each one it waill scale by half, enter 2 in each one and it will scalle all axis by 2.

Hood