Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => Mach4 General Discussion => Topic started by: Tsamael25 on June 18, 2022, 12:05:46 AM
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Hello.
I am not sure if I am in right place here, but I do not know where to ask anymore.
I am building my cnc and I just can not connect it to my motors.
I have ESS, CNC4PC C82 board delta servo motors 750W and I am trying to run it thru mach4. I connected cards to PC thru ethernet cable and all lights are green. Once I connect motors, than green light on the C82 is blinking and red lights are on.
I am also getting some error message about pins or E stop. Is there someone who can help me how to set it up correctly?
Thank you very much.
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Hi,
your description suggests that if you have a Estop switch its reversed.
In the Ports&Pins tab of the ESS plugin reverse the Active Low/Active High setting.
Craig
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Hi,
I used 750W Delta B2 series servos in my recent mill build, they are great. They work best, or no so much best, but fastest, with
differential Step/Dir inputs. Does the C82 have differential Step/Dir outputs?
Craig
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Hi,
I used 750W Delta B2 series servos in my recent mill build, they are great. They work best, or no so much best, but fastest, with
differential Step/Dir inputs. Does the C82 have differential Step/Dir outputs?
Craig
Thank you very much for your message and your help. I tried to reverse pins in ESS plugin, but nothing changed.
I am able to run jogging via mach4 but only for few seconds. Than I am getting Estop condition. I have to press enable again and I can run motors for maximum of 2-3 seconds and Estop condition again.
Regarding Step/dir outputs, C82 board does not have it, but I have it on the C34D which is connected to delta drive into CN1 and Ethernet cable is plugged in and connected to C82 card. There are 2 pins marked as step direction or differencial. I changed pin, but I did not notice any difference. Maybe direction of motor? I did not pay attention to that.
Please let me know if it makes any sense to you or if you have any suggestions....
Thank you again.
Thomas
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Hi,
I have to press enable again and I can run motors for maximum of 2-3 seconds and Estop condition again.
Then electrical noise from the servos is affecting the EStop circuit. Why?
Craig
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What do you think, what can be done to fix it? Is it something I need to program in the servo driver?
Or can we just change something in the MACH setting ?
I did not install limit switches yet, do you think it can affect it?
Thank you again for your help. I really appreciate it.
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Hi,
OK I think you have a problem.
One possibility is that as one or more of the servos operate it is triggering a circuit that Estop the machine.
Another possibility is that one or more of the servos is throwing an alarm which triggers an Estop.
What I would o is disconnect any wiring going to the Estop input of your breakout board. That would preclude any electrical interference.
I would also disconnect ALL but one servo.
Until you track down this problem having multiple servos is just adding confusion.
How have you hooked up each servo, in particular is there a servo alarm output which is directed to the BoB?
Did you solder up the CN1 plug? How did you do it? Do you have circuit diagram of what you did? Note the a Servo Alarm
output can be active High OR active Low, depending on how you program it.
Craig
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Thank you for checking, I will try to play with disconnecting servos and doing it one by one. Meanwhile here is the link so you can see how I hooked up CN1 to the BoB. I used thiw connector.
https://www.cnc4pc.com/c34de-ab-driver-to-rj45-connector-board-for-delta-asda-ab.html
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Hi,
I used 750W Delta B2 series servos in my recent mill build, they are great. They work best, or no so much best, but fastest, with
differential Step/Dir inputs. Does the C82 have differential Step/Dir outputs?
Craig
Which BoB did you use with delta servo and what programming you did on the delta servo ? Maybe I will try to do same programming on mine and try. Or in worst case if you can help me I will just purchase same BoB as you have.
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I found out one more thing.
When I disabled Estop in ESS configuration input signals, and I jog from position 0 to position X motor will rotate for approximately 2 seconds, after 2 seconds everything freezes (Estopcondition) than after 1-2 seconds it will continue for another 2 seconds.
So it looks like Estop signal is sent from the board in intervals every 2-3 seconds which last for a second or 2.
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Hi,
When I disabled Estop in ESS configuration input signals, and I jog from position 0 to position X motor will rotate for approximately 2 seconds, after 2 seconds everything freezes (Estopcondition) than after 1-2 seconds it will continue for another 2 seconds.
So it looks like Estop signal is sent from the board in intervals every 2-3 seconds which last for a second or 2.
That is not an Estop condition, once a macghine is Estopped is MUST br RESET before it will operate again.
Which BoB did you use with delta servo and what programming you did on the delta servo ? Maybe I will try to do same programming on mine and try. Or in worst case if you can help me I will just purchase same BoB as you have.
I designed and made my own breakout board. I programmed the drives to suit. I populated the CN1 plug with the wires I required.
The link you provided to the adaptor board is of little use. It does not specify what happens to the servo alarm signal. It does not look like it hooks to the breakout board at all.
The single most important point about using a servo is that it should fault out if the commanded position deviates from the actual position by my than the programmable 'Following Error Window'.
The servo should stop and the drive produce an alarm output which should Estop the machine. Without the servo alarm how is the machine supposed to Estop?
Craig
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Hi,
what drives do you have? Are they ASDA-AB or ASDA-B2?
Digital Output 5 of the drive is pinned out to pin 27=DO5- and pin 28=DO5+, which according to page 6 of the C34DE-AB manual are hooked to pins 4 and 5 of the RJ45 connector....
but what happens to it thereafter? Does it get hooked to the breakout board or what?
Craig
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Hi,
When I disabled Estop in ESS configuration input signals, and I jog from position 0 to position X motor will rotate for approximately 2 seconds, after 2 seconds everything freezes (Estopcondition) than after 1-2 seconds it will continue for another 2 seconds.
So it looks like Estop signal is sent from the board in intervals every 2-3 seconds which last for a second or 2.
That is not an Estop condition, once a macghine is Estopped is MUST br RESET before it will operate again.
Which BoB did you use with delta servo and what programming you did on the delta servo ? Maybe I will try to do same programming on mine and try. Or in worst case if you can help me I will just purchase same BoB as you have.
I designed and made my own breakout board. I programmed the drives to suit. I populated the CN1 plug with the wires I required.
The link you provided to the adaptor board is of little use. It does not specify what happens to the servo alarm signal. It does not look like it hooks to the breakout board at all.
The single most important point about using a servo is that it should fault out if the commanded position deviates from the actual position by my than the programmable 'Following Error Window'.
The servo should stop and the drive produce an alarm output which should Estop the machine. Without the servo alarm how is the machine supposed to Estop?
Craig
Woow, very nice job.
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Hi,
what drives do you have? Are they ASDA-AB or ASDA-B2?
Digital Output 5 of the drive is pinned out to pin 27=DO5- and pin 28=DO5+, which according to page 6 of the C34DE-AB manual are hooked to pins 4 and 5 of the RJ45 connector....
but what happens to it thereafter? Does it get hooked to the breakout board or what?
Craig
My drives are ASD-B2 -0721-B
C34 was recommended by Arturo from CNC4PC, I purchased everything from him.
Now I am checking his site and I see he recommended C34DE-AB - Driver to RJ45 Connector Board for Delta ASDA-AB
But he also has C34DE - for DELTA B2 Driver
I will call him tomorrow and will order other C34 for delta B2.
He is trying to help me for almost 3 weeks, but unfortunately no success.
Do you think I should try other C34 for delta b2 driver?
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Hi,
Do you think I should try other C34 for delta b2 driver?
I don't know. The problem is that I don't understand what Arturo has done and in particular how the liitle adaptor boards are wired. Clearly he made them to suit but they are still
not plug and play.
I soldered eight wires into the plug that came with the drive, and that plugs into CN1. The other end hooks direct to my breakout board, I don't have any little adaptor board in between.
May I suggest you ask him to give you an accurate and detailed circuit diagram for the little boards you've got and lets see if we cant adapt them to your drives. He may not wish to part
with this information, and I understand why, but if you are going to be able to use the hardware he has supplied then I think hes honour bound to do so.
Other than that I would make my own. In fact I did make my own.
Craig
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Hi,
Do you think I should try other C34 for delta b2 driver?
I don't know. The problem is that I don't understand what Arturo has done and in particular how the liitle adaptor boards are wired. Clearly he made them to suit but they are still
not plug and play.
I soldered eight wires into the plug that came with the drive, and that plugs into CN1. The other end hooks direct to my breakout board, I don't have any little adaptor board in between.
May I suggest you ask him to give you an accurate and detailed circuit diagram for the little boards you've got and lets see if we cant adapt them to your drives. He may not wish to part
with this information, and I understand why, but if you are going to be able to use the hardware he has supplied then I think hes honour bound to do so.
Other than that I would make my own. In fact I did make my own.
Craig
I already sent him an email. I will ask for the diagram too.
Unfortunately I am not capable to make something like this on my own.
Unless you are willing to help me with this and maybe it will be faster solution, because I am trying to connect it for almost 3 weeks. I understand it will not be for free :)
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Hi,
did you buy these drives new? If so then there should have come with them all the bits to make up the plug that goes into CN1.
Do you have it?
Do you have a soldering iron, a small one? The terminals on the back side of the plug are small but not insurmountable.
Where abouts are you?. I live in New Zealand so its bound to be a long way from you but if you posted me the plugs I could solder them up.
Craig
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I live in Florida. I think it will be a looong drive to you.
Yes I bought it new from cnc4pc.com website. If you can tell me exactly what I should do, I can brake one and I can play with it. I have 4 of them. I can try to solder it.
I also have soldering iron, the small one.
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Hi,
no I'm talking about the bare bones plug that comes with the drive.
Craig
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Ohh, I am sorry, but yes, I bought those new and I also have it.
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Hi,
then instead of buying those adaptors which don't seem to work then get a C77 shield board. It allows that you put
wires direct into screw connectors. You would miss out on differential Step/Dir outputs, but at least you'd get the bloody thing
to go.
What you would do is solder wires directly into the plug (that goes into CN1) and connect them to plain old screw terminals
on the C82/C77 combo. Simple.
Craig
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I just checked it, so I will need ESS plus C82 plus C77 ?
I definitely can order it right away and I should have it within 2 days if its in stock. Than I do not need to connect motors via ethernet cable into C82?
I am really sorry, but I dont really understand how it will be connected.
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Hi,
yes you require the ESS, a C82 breakout board and a C77 shield board.
Lets count up the wires you will need as a nminimum to hook up a servo.
You'll need one wire for the Step signal, and another for the Direction signal. You'll need a signal return wire.
You'll need one wire to each servo to enable it, and another wire for the drive to signal an error. Optionally you'll
need a Reset wire. If the drive errors out for any reason you either have to depower the servo/servos and rstart OR you signal a RESET
with one additional wire.
Counting up:
1 Step
1 Direction
1 Signal return/0V
1 SON (Delta shorthand for Servo ON, ie enable)
1 FLT (Delta shorthand for servo error)
1 RST (Delta shorthand for Reset)
TOTAL=6 wires
Note this is for single ended signaling. Differential signaling is preferred but requires more wires and more circuitry. Supposedly the boards you
have will do differential signaling, but for whatever reason you can't get them to work....so I would forgo differential signaling for the moment.
Start simple, and once you get that sorted then try differential.
A second issue is that you could wire the servos such that as soon as the power is applied they are enabled, it works and is easy but I prefer to
have my servos software enabled. I have one enable output from the ESS, going to the BoB and then connected to all the servos. When I hit
the Mach Enable/Disable button the servos follow suit, easy.
I hadn't thought to ask, but do you have the programming cable and the Delta software to program your drives? You'll need it. Trying to program
the drives by pushing buttons like a microwave is just too error prone....you won't do it.
Because you are using a C82 you have to be conservative with inputs, you just don't have that many. It makes sense then to combine all the
servo FLT lines into one input so that if any one or more servos fault then Mach will know and most probably Estop.
My breakout board has all three ESS ports developed so I have 31 inputs, so I can afford to be a bit free with them. So much so that I have one input for
each servo, up to six of them. I have LEDs on Machs screen so that if a servo faults I can tell which axis. If you combine all fault signals
into one input then you lose that ability.
Will do a bit more research and add further posts.
Craig
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OK sounds good, lets do it.
I have delta cable for programming. I already tried to tune servo motors, it did not show me any errors.
I have all necessary wires. I will just order C77 and we can start working on it.
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Hi,
I've had a closer look at the output situation. The Step/Dir outputs are only 5V.
There are 24V capable outputs and they would be used for SON and RST, but there are not enough to do all the Step/Dir outputs.
ASDA-B2 servos require 24V input signals for single ended Ste/Dir signaling. There is a possible work-around that would allow 5V single ended signaling, but it would be confusing
and outside of manufacturers recommendation. If you were around the corner and could test it out prior to deploying it, that would be fine. As you are half a world away
I don't think the risk is warranted.
The Step/Direction outputs of the C82 (without any intervention by a shield) are 5VTTL. To take them to 24V would require a single transistor or MOSFET per output.
With a three axis machine that would require six transistors/MOSFETs, not to difficult. If however you want to progress to differential signaling in the future then it makes sense to do it now.
That would require two 26LS31 IC's. These are quadruple line-drivers. How do you feel about making a little circuit board that has two 16 pin IC on it?
I could alternately make the circuit board myself and post it to you. I make circuit boards day in, day out, so is no drama, but there would be some delay with postage.
Craig
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Hello.
and thank you again for checking.
This machine will be 4 axis. It comes with tangential blade.
Regarding how do I feel about making the board? I have no problem with it, if you can send me diagrams or any kind of documentation. I am sure I can do it. Also if you can provide exact part number what to buy I can purchase everything on amazon.
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Hi,
so you have four servos, is that correct? Does the tangential blade have any servo/motor/actuator?
Craig
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4 servo motors correct.
On tangentional blade I only have sensor for homing.
I only have a whole machine without motors and drivers, Those got burned out :(
So I am replacing it and connecting new motors
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Hi,
OK, so you require four servos.
The choices are to use 24V singled ended signaling, because its easiest, OR use differential signaling (5V by the way) because its fastest.
If you wish to use differential signalling then I would make a circuit board for you and send it to you, unless your happy using perforated Vero board?
If however your happy with single ended signaling, which is by no means bad by the way, then Vero board and a few transistors is easily doable.
What do you prefer to do?
Craig
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I would like to have it finished ASAP and hopefuly I will not loose any accuracy. So what you think is best quality and fastest. I dont think its a good idea for single ended signaling.
Do you have a skype or whatsup? maybe we can do details there.
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Hi,
before I built my mill I bought a 400W B2 series Delta servo and drive to experiment with and determine whether they would be good enough
for my planned build. They were every bit and more than I expected, so when I built my mill I used them 750W B's. They were only about $40 more
than 400W servos so why not?
One of the things I experimented with was how fast you can go with single ended signaling. The specs say 200kHz. I tried them up to 300kHz, but they started
going cranky at about 230kHz. So I regard 200kHz as a good spec.
I have my servos direct connected to 5mm pitch ballscrews, and I chose to make the resolution 1um. That is to say I programmed the drives so that 5000
pulse would cause the servo to rotate one revolution. The rated speed of te servos is 3000rpm, but they can go to 5000rpm. So I calculated the pulse
stream required to make my servos go 5000rpm at 1um resolution:
5000 X 5000 /60= 416.7 kHz. I determined there fore that single ended would not be fast enough ie I required differential signaling, which is rated to 500kHz.
That is what I did.
Note however if I had chosen to relax the resolution to 2um then the calculation changes. Lets face, it 1um is nice but its too f'ing small to measure,
and 2um is still too f'ing small top measure. Additionally while my machine can do 25m/min with the servos doing 5000rpm, I seldom run it anywhere near that,
its just too scary fast, 3000 rpm is still way fast enough. So the calculation is:
2500 x 3000 /60= 125kHz Now 125kHz is well within the single ended signaling rate.
So you see that because I wanted high resolution AND max speed I backed myself into differential, but I could still have a way fast and accurate machine
single ended, and in this case hubris got the better of me.
I suggest you do the calculations to determine what you want, and then be realistic about what you need. I rather suspect if you are more realistic than I, you
would come to the conclusion that single ended is every bit good enough.
Of course if you do decide that single ended is good enough that simplifies the task at hand, namely getting the bloody servos to run at all! I could give
you a parts list and you can get started tomorrow. Do you have a RadioShack or equivalent nearby?
Craig
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Thank you very much for the message. I am calculating and trying to figure out what we will do. But I received the email from the supplier od C82 and ESS, he knows about my issue..
He asked me to do this:
This you need to change in the servodriver itself. It should be sending a high signal when the servo is active (NO_FAULT), it is sending a low. You need invert the active high/low of the NO_FAULT signal. This is a simple and common setting in the servo driver.
I am trying to find out, how and where, I found t should be P0 02, but it is not. Please would you mind to help me with this so I can try ?
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Hi,
have you plugged the servo drive into the PC and installed the Delta software? There are hundreds of parameters that go into a modern servo you effectively MUST have the set-up
and tuning software otherwise you'll get nowhere, and you absolutely have to program the drive to suit your machine, there is no such thing as plug-and-play with these servos.
The drive has 8 digital inputs, and each input can be programmed to be a particular function. Its common (default) for SON to be assigned to DI1 (Digital Input 1) but it could just as easily be DI5 say.
The drive has 6 digital outputs (DO's) It's common (default) to have the alarm input on DO5. Looking at the manual for the C34D it would appear that Arturo has assumed the same default assignment,
ie DO5.
DO1 is P2.18, DO2 is p2.19 etc thru DO5 is P2.22 and one outlier, DO6 is P2.37 per page 7-8 of the manual.
You need to alter the parameter P2.22 to a value which results in it being an Alarm output, ie value 0x07 per page 7-103 of the manual. Note that the third hexadecimal digit may either be a '1' or
a '0', which in turn determines whether the output is active high or active low. Thus the two choices you have for the value of P2.22 is 0x107 or 0x007.
Craig
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OMG.
I did connect to usb delta cable and I tried to tune it. Maybe I did not tune it well, I am not sure.
But I changed p2 22 to 107 and it does not give me error anymore
After almost a month of searching ......
Is there any good tutorial on how to tune the servo?
I have to thank you very much for your help, you were very helpful and I learned alot from you.
I need to spend some time now with tuning motors and make my machine work smoothly and precisely :)
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Hi,
servo tuning is a whole other subject altogether. Unless the inertia ratio is really high, say 15 or higher just use Auto-Tune.
Watch the videos an understand it before you attempt it, but Auto-Tune does as well as any.
Craig
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Hmm, thats what I did, I did auto tuning
Thank you vey much again