Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: Katoh on July 30, 2011, 10:44:18 AM
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Colleagues
Just recently I purchased an AC servo drive in the intention that I would match a motor to it and use it as the spindle drive motor on my latest project being a lathe conversion. I realise like most things I jump the gun without thinking but the driver was new and at the correct price so how could I pass it up.
From what I have learnt so far I can interface a Pixie card to the driver so it excepts step and direction from Mach, but that's about as much as I have been able to research. My questions are as follows.
What motor can I use with this drive? Or what should I be looking for in a motor?
Is there a better interface than the pixie card?
Or am I simply just peeing in the wind! and trying to use something that is to outdated?
If you go to the link it will show the manual for the driver,
http://www.ormec.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=8hh6gEwtUB4%3D&tabid=168&mid=757
My model is SL30.
I am very new to servo motor's and basically on a crash course, any help would be appreciated.
Cheers
Katoh
Incidentally.
Many Thanks to Hood Who has helped me Thus far!
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Do you have means to program the personality module when matching an odd ball motor?
Also you will need a motor with hall effect (or simulated H.E.) commutation, if it is for a spindle, the motor will most likely be in the larger Servo range?
Depending on what machine you have it on.
N.
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Do you have means to program the personality module when matching an odd ball motor?
No I wouldn't even know were to start looking or who to ask.
As stated I'm new to the Servo game, you could say on a crash course. As far as motor size goes I am looking at the 1.5kw range to drive a spindle on a 11x30 lathe.
I am just about to do a quick google on hall effect, try to understand it better. Maybe I was under the wrong impression that most of these are plug and play.
Thanks
Katoh
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This shows how the commutation works.
http://users.tinyworld.co.uk/flecc/4-pole-bldc-motor031102.swf
Some drives start off using the halls in the BLDC (Brushless DC) mode and then switch over to AC sinusoidal.
N.
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That is a really good animation of the halls, I did some research earlier and found a good paper that described the operation of the hall effects in the servo motors. If anything I'm learning new things.
I would contact westamp but I dont think exist any more, well I cant find a website for them. If I could find a contact I would ask them direct what motor they recommend.
cheers
Katoh
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I contacted Westamp about 10yrs ago, but I think they have since folded or been taken over.
Usually there is software to program the personality module but I don't hold out much hope that it is still around, as it had a limited audience.
N.
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I sent a message of to Ormec, hopefully they might give me an idea or a starting point. If I can get some sort of an idea which motor will work with it I could go from there. I'm looking at Yaskawa motor at the moment 1.5kw, but trying to find specs on it and relating them back to the drive is becoming quite a task.
Wishful thinking maybe someone will come up and say use ABC-123 motor and such and such an interface and it will all work. I must be dreaming!
The funny thing is I have a VFD and a 3phase motor here ready to go into the lathe, but for some reason I see the servo option as so much better.
Thanks for all your help.
Cheers
Katoh
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Once you get into BLDC and especially AC sinusoidal, it can often be less headache to source the motor and drive as a matched pair.
The servo option can give you CSF and potentially C axis capability.
N.
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Yes that's exactly what I was thinking, having both c-axis and spindle, will make the machine so much more versatile with so much more scope for expansion.
Once you get into BLDC and especially AC sinusoidal,.
You lost me again there. ???
Katoh
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BLDC motor is shown in the simulation link, both BLDC and 3ph AC sinusoidal motors are constructed the same way, with a PM rotor and 3 windings on the stator, the difference is in the control, BLDC is often compared to a DC brushed motor turned inside out, hence brushless DC and only two windings are energized at the same time.
AC sinusoidal is true 3 ph, all three winding energised 120deg apart and is generally a smoother motor, especially at very low rpm.
N.
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NosmoKing
Again many thanks.
At least I'm getting an education. I think, I say this with fingers crossed, I may have found that the drive was designed to be used with some of the GE Fanuc motors. The manual has the wiring diagram's with the control cables and matching pins and the number off and design, only seem to match up with those motors.
I may be on to something but then i could be totally of the track. The problem now is that all the motors I am looking at are in the 110v range not much good for 240v input unless we opt for a step down transformer, that's just opening another can of worms.
Cheers
Katoh
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Do you mean the Westamp drive with Fanuc motor?
Be aware that Fanuc use a unique type of commutation, they use a four bit code that they extrapolate a sine wave from.
There is a poster on the Cnczone. Jim Elson? I believe that has made a convertor, other than that the encoder has to be replaced with a hall commutation type.
I have a Fanuc servo motor on my lathe, but I changed the encoder out in order to use it on an AMC BLDC drive..
N.
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NosmoKing
I really am not sure what I mean, but you just gave me another idea. I might put a post on CNCzone as well, I am sure there are other people out there using the westamp driver that can point me the right way.
I was simply going on the plug connection as shown in the drawing in the manual. shows a 19pin plug in a certain configuration and the only motors I can see with the same configuration on the encoders is the Fanuc. All the others are different. I suppose my biggest thing at the moment is to match a motor to the drive, then from drive to Mach I could use a pixie card.
Again Many thanks for your help.
Katoh
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As has been mentioned the personality module may pose a problem. I know the first drives I bought had this and the personality modules had to be programmmed for each motor and there was no info on how to do that or what equipment/software was needed. I did find somewhere that would do it for me at £50 a pop but that was more than I paid for the drives and motors ;D The drives I had were matched to the motors (in the module) but one of the drives module corrupted itself while I was testing things out so I figured as I could be constantly paying for rewrites it was not worth it. The more modern drives I use all can be configured from within software on a PC and all that is needed is a serial connection.
Hood
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I was simply going on the plug connection as shown in the drawing in the manual. shows a 19pin plug in a certain configuration and the only motors I can see with the same configuration on the encoders is the Fanuc.
Katoh
The plug P2 shows the use of standard Hall commutation which Fanuc does not use.
Also there as a few different types and resolutions of encoders used by Fanuc, differential, absolute, and 1v p/p sine wave which requires a special interface.
The motor part number reveals to type used.
Another thing to watch for is many Fanuc servo's have a tapered shaft.
N.
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HI Hood
Yes I can see now when you advised me prior to buy a motor and drive as a match. Its just a shame not to use this drive, but if its going to cost me more than what it's worth plus the added headache of interfacing, I may just have to run up the white flag and admit defeat. I sent a message to Ormec, maybe they can help or give some advice but I am yet to hear back from them.
The funny thing is there is a serial connection on this drive called P11 but there is no reference to it on the manual. Actually I think that manual is for an earlier drive, looks the same but this one has a few extra bits.
I will bite my time for now, you never know something may come up.
Cheers
Katoh
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NosmoKing
Ok well that goes against my Fanuc theory. So we cant judge a servo by the plugs it uses, it was worth a try.
Hopefully fingers crossed I will hear back form Ormec, in the meantime a little more study.
Thanks
Katoh
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If its a serial connector, most likely it is for RS232 to program the personality module, with the right s/w of course.
N.
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Possibly the serial can be used for full programming of the module but I know on the Osai (rebadged ElectroCraft) drives I had it was only possible to change the tuning parameters and not the motor setup parameters via serial, they were on the module and not accessible except for read only . Hyperterminal was used to talk to the drive for this.
Best bet is to get the correct manual or hopefully someone will reply to your email with some positive news.
Hood