Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: guynamedbathgate on September 02, 2009, 07:12:46 PM
-
Hey everyone
I have been dabbling with different Cam softwares and looking through Mach lathe tutorials and I have noticed in all of them, they refer to a turning tool holder that uses round inserts or I've heard it called a button tool for turning more complicated rounded profiles. Problem is, I've never seen one. anywhere, for sale. I have seen round inserts. Just no tool holders. Anyone got any info on these.
CB
???
-
Bought quite a few from eBay, 5mm 10mm 12mm 16mm. Any place that sells lathe tools will have them, even the hobby places sell them.
Hood
-
Im sorry, which hobby places. Link please. I've even looked in the MSC catalog and done google searches. Perhaps I am calling them something different.
CB
-
Try EMCO, JDL, and MSG and look under indexable toolholders.
RICH
-
sorry. again, all I see is regular left hand, right hand threading and cutoff tool holders. I do not see a round insert Button style tool holder. can someone please post me a link directly to one.
-
Sandvick and any other carbide manufacturer made these
-
yeah, where can I buy one of those or something like it
CB
-
http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/GSDRVSM?PACACHE=000000107494623
http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNPDFF?PMPAGE=758&PMITEM=57139628&PMCTLG=00
CB,
Can't recall for certain, but tool nose radius compensation might not be working in MachTurn.
If not, you won't get what you expect for the finished part.
RC
-
hMM....
I think your right RC and LazyTurn accounts for the tool tip radius. I wouldn't be in a hurry to go out and buy
button tool holder unless you comes across it cheap. Additionaly you will find that on smaller lathes they just don't have what it takes to use a large radius on a tool. Use the button tool or the square tool to secure a profile cut from LazyCam. In Lazyturn it takes into account the shape of the tool.
BTW: In LazyCam when you want code for a finish pass use a point tool as i mentioned in the manual.
RICH
-
just did a search of USA eBay and got this
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SRDCN-123-B-CANELA-Tool-holder-w-10-USA-Made-Inserts_W0QQitemZ390083767052QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5ad2cdeb0c&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
J and L will have them.
Here in the UK even the hobby places have them
http://www.greenwood-tools.co.uk/ishop/728/shopscr20.html
http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/PROFILE_LATHE_TOOLS.html
Hood
-
Thanks Hood
yeah It looks like non of the usual suspects in the US stock these. I looked in MSC, Wholesale tools, Grizzly, Enco and a bunch of small Hobbies like Little machins shop. and it looks like ebay is the only source I could find.
As for everyones programing comments. I do a lot of my programing by hand so tool comp is not a problem. Also I recently picked up Dolphin CAD/CAM the gentleman over there gave me a great deal on both the Pro MILL and Pro Lathe modules for under 500 smackers.
I am in the process of building a beefier CNC Lathe to replace my little 9x20 which is what this tool would be for.
CB
-
http://metalworking.mscdirect.com/CGI/MWSRCH?Ntt=srdcn&Ntk=Keyword+Search&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&N=0&Nty=1&SWITCHPREF=Y
Notice near the top there is an option to view another 19 from MSC main cat.
Hood
-
man, I swear I searched MSC, I guess my search terms were incorrect. Thanks, though it looks like I can order them from RDG tools in the UK and it is still cheaper with shipping than MSC.
Thanks
-
LOL no probs.
You mentioned buying Dolphin, did you get it from the USA site or UK? Also is the 500 smacker $ or £ ?
Hood
-
I got it from the USA site so, yeah $US.
CB
-
sounds reasonable, downloaded the trial of lathe and it looked fairly good, might have to call them and see whats on offer but as usual I am betting the deals are not as good this side of the pond.
Hood
-
Oh BTW Chronos also do the button tools, not sure if they send to USA or not.
http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/acatalog/Chronos_Catalogue_Glanze_Indexable_Lathe_Tools_77.html
Hood
-
yeah, I had to call the guy and the deals are really only for hobbiest. So you gotta convince them that you are one of those. I had to show him that I make these
http://www.chrisbathgate.com/page0/page0.html
and explain that selling art is not really a business, because selling art is really really hard.
CB
-
as for the software, I think it might be good, if I would actually take the time to learn it before using it, Rather I have been messing with it, without really knowing what I am doing and It is proving troublesome operate. But I take all the blame for that. :)
CB
-
will give that a go :D
Some fancy looking stuff you make :)
Hood
-
As for everyones programing comments. I do a lot of my programing by hand so tool comp is not a problem.
That's where the comp IS a problem......hand coding
Mach can't handle it. (unless it's fixed now)
CAM can.
-
Overloaded. What I meant is when I hand code. I just program the tool path so it is comped already so I dont have to use the tool comp function. Its a pain, but it works.
-
Cool.
Assuming then you've read ch.9 in the Turn manual.
Quite a bit of math envolved to hand code a complex profile correctly when using a radiused tip.
But you'll probably be close enough for art work.
It's a shame Mach doesn't do it for us......as planned......yet.
-
I do alright.
-
I wonder why every time someone makes a comment about people doing art work, they have to say something like,
"But you'll probably be close enough for art work"
Its kind of insulting to think that some of us who are craftsmen just like others out their making utilitarian objects, somehow have less dedication to our work just becuause we are making things that you look at rather than use.
any one else got any thoughts on this.
CB
-
Yes,
I know craftmanship when i see.
Now artwork is a different story. Remember going back to a museum in Amsterdam. Trying to appreciate the noted painting, i looked at it sitting on the floor, laying on the floor, upside down while on my head, looking between my legs with back end towards the painting, looked at it every which way i possible could for at least a half hour. Finaly the person would takes care of the museum came over and asked if i had any comments on the paiinting as he just couldn't help notice me admiring the great work of art. I told him it looked like crap in my mind ten years ago, and now that i was more knowledgeable and mature, it still looked like crap to me. He said, since you are as nuts as the guy who painted it, here is a free pass for the next time you visit, and also enjoy your remaining five minutes in the museum. Can you imagine that! :D
RICH
-
Haha, yeah well I have had many, many instances like that in museums myself. But the point I was getting at is that creativity and craftsmanship are not mutually exclusive from one another and we shouldnt assume that because something is made for sheer aesthetic reasons, it lacks craftsmanship. (the painting may be ugly, but is it a well crafted painting).
As for whether a particular work of art pleases our aesthetic or not, that truly is an individual thing, it all comes down to what we are sensitive too.
But without craftsmanship, an artist cannot truly realize his vision to begin with. I have wanted to scream many times when I see something in an art gallery at a distance that looks intriguing, only to realize upon closer inspection how poorly it was constructed and how little the artist truly understood about the materials he was working with. So let us not confuse bad art or poorly crafted art for all art.
CB
-
I think the main point IS with artwork IF you were a few .001" off no one will even notice, probablu not even the creator and the finish product will look as great as it is.
With a machined "part" a few .001" could easily turn it into scrap metal and Waste all that machining time to boot.
Just a thought, (;-)TP
-
I suppose, but a few thou off and my parts dont fit together either. so i dont see the difference. stuff still needs to fit. I guess if you are referring to non critical surfaces but I think that stands with regular parts as well. If anything, I am sloppier when I am making functional jigs and stuff, I got a number of set up plates with farmer welds all over them.
CB
-
A
I got a number of set up plates with farmer welds all over them.
CB
You're cracking me up, you want everybody to be PC when talking about artists but then you take a dump on hayseeds.
Paul T.
-
Hehe, that is fair enough, but you knew what I was talking about when I said it didnt you. My apologies to the hardworking farmers of the world.
I am not trying to be a pre-Madona here. just starting a friendly conversation about work ethic and craftsmanship.
Bias is a hard thing to recognize when it is our own.
CB