Machsupport Forum
G-Code, CAD, and CAM => LazyCam (Beta) => Topic started by: MotoGems on March 02, 2010, 01:47:37 PM
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Hello,
I have drawn up a .dxf file...
Opened it in lazycam... it shows the profile and puts a rectangle around it...
I choose a tool... make sure everything is set... set it to "outside" cutting... but when it posts the g-code it basically cuts on the line.....
How do you make it cut outside the profile....??????
Do i have to draw a rectangle around the part and then in lazycam remove one complete entity?
Or do i have to draw the item larger as if i'm imagining the cutter toolpath with offset in mind?
Hope you can help
MotoGems.
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MotoGems,
Consult the LazyCam manual, Tutorial #5.
Frankly, i would suggest using LazyTurn.
It is available from the Downloads link above and the most current manual can be found in Members Docs.
RICH
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The part is being cut on a milling machine... so i was using the mill...
In the lazycam manual is shows where the offset instruction is to
"select a chain and press the offset button, this will offset (kerf) the boundary to the distance.... yada yada yada..
Problem is it shows the little box that is on the left of the lazycam offset screen with a create offset button....
When i click the offset button i have
Pro demo. No GCode
button... on the offset and the same in the pockets tab....
the version of lazycam is version 3.00.2
Is this something wrong with that version?
Do i have to download something else?
MotoGems.
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Pro demo. No GCode
You need to have a licensed Pro version for advanced features of LC to post code for ie; offsets, pocketing , lathe etc
RICH
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I have a licensed version of Mach 3... i guess that's different?
I'll try to find this "licensed Pro version"..... of lazycam...
Cheers
MotoGems.
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Top of this page...under PURCHASE.
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The free edition of LazyCam that is included with Mach3 carries no cost. However, there is an optional PRO level upgrade that turns on advanced features such as object offsetting, pocketing, primary foam functions, importation of DXF profiles for conversion to Lathe turning code, etc. It is optional, but gives one the ability to do more advanced importation of objects. Due to the availability of other low cost CAM packages, LazyCam is in semi-permanent Beta and no longer being actively developed. LazyCam is not intended for use in a production environment.
You need to purchase the license for the pro upgrade....
RICH
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OK,
Purchased the pro upgrade....
I guess it will arrive in the next 24 hours..
I'll let you know how i go.
Thanks
MotoGems.
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Yes, everything now works fine....
Can offset and do a couple of other things..
Thanks for your help
MotoGems.
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Hello Rich,
my name is Bob and I'm a total noob to Mach3 and Lazycam and just proceeded to my first test cut just now.
I guess I have the same kind of problem :
I own a small cnc and tried to cut a piece with 2.5 and 4mm holes in it.
I created a DXF that was imported in Lazycam.
I selected the layer and applied a tool with a diameter of 1.2mm and then exported the Gcode to Mach3.
The holes are larger by the size of the tool, and the piece is smaller by the same size (1.2mm) so it's obvious the mill cut on the line.
What did I do wrong?
Thanks for your help,
Bob
PS : I'm french so the manual is sometimes difficult to follow when it gets a bit too technical.
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Bob,
To cut inside or outside you need to create an offset from the profile and apply the tool , cut depth etc, to the offset.
You should un-enable the profile which the offset was created from before posting the code.
RICH
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Hello Rich,
thanks for your quick reply :)
Is this function available with the beta version of LC?
Is it this function :
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sorry :
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Ok Rich,
after trying on and on, it seems pretty obvious to me that this feature is only available in the pro version since LC doesn't export the Gcode once offset has been applied.
On top of this, it seems like LC is enable to apply offsets to a group of layers (multiple selection), is this correct or is this available in the Pro version?
Then, for some reason, LC seems to bug on my PC and will stop importing DXF after a while and needs to be re-installed in order to correct until it stops again and so on... Do you have any idea of what might be causing this?
Thanks again for your help,
Bob
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bOB,
Need pro version, and you get the error code if you try using offsets without a license.
I suggest you take a look at the manual as it tells how to use lLazycam selelct ayers , select things, etc.
Don't hack your way thru it.
RICH
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Hello rich,
thanks for your answer, I did read the manual, find it's lacking lots of major info imho, and what do you mean by "don't hack your way thru it"?
How can you explain the inconsistent DXF import I'm experiencing with LC?
No offense of course, just trying to understand problems in order to correct them.
best,
Bob
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ok, I just bought a LCPro licence, hope all will be fine now...
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find it's lacking lots of major info imho
What major info is lacking in the manual? Can you post a list?
You can be as detailed as you want and i would appreciate the effort.
and what do you mean by "don't hack your way thru it"?
When i say don't hack you way thru it, I am saying that the user should read, understand the manual and follow through
with the tutorials. The manual basically goes thru every command, tool, input etc and defines it in some manner. The tutorial's
supplement the manual by example on how to use what is in the manual. Each tutorial just builds on the one before it.
There is no formal documentation for the program on how it actualy works or or where the development left off. So the manual addresss every comment ever made in this forum, includes recomendations from other manuals written in other languages, and includes "countless hours of my hacking" to see what worked or didn't work along with ways to use it successfuly. I even put a known problems / bug list together for it.
So in that light.....a user should not hack their way thru it! ;)
How can you explain the inconsistent DXF import I'm experiencing with LC?
There could be a number of reasons ( even bugs, maybe), and the best generic answer i can give is the write up i did on DXF imports,
Appendix "C" - DXF FILE EXPORTS in the LazyTurn Manual, as it applies.
RICH
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Thanks for all Rich :)
Mainly, what I think is lacking is all the info related to CNC machining, like for example :
- what is leadin, how to set and use
- use G41/G42 on leading outputs
- Incremental IJs
- Plunge clearance what is it, how does it interact with Z
- Line number increment : why use 5 rather than less, can you add line in between, like line 13 between 10 and 15
- automaticaly add inside and outside leadings
etc.. etc...
Don't forget, I'm a noob to Gcode and CNCs, so I learn while reading the LC manual and need all these precisions.
Will check the LazyTurn manual, thanks for an otherwise great program :)
Bob
PS : One more question out off topic : how can I reset machine coordinates without switches, couldn't find how to.
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what I actually mean by "inconsistent DXF import" is that the same DXF will import fine until it suddenly doesn't any longer, and then the only way to sort the problem in uninstall and reinstall LC
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only way to sort the problem in uninstall and reinstall LC
I have at times found that if a software program gets "goofy" i just go out and come back in so same goes with LC, but,
have never needed to "re-install" LC.
all the info related to CNC machining
Sorry my friend i can't do that.......let me explain......
Writing a manual can be a real challenge, in the sense that, an author just can't included "all" for total understanding ( it becomes a book on CNC ) , so, at some point ya just got to say enough is enough. As an example, i could have just put the maunual out without any tutorials , but, i went those extra steps to assist the user.
- what is leadin, how to set and use
see tutorial #7
- use G41/G42 on leading outputs
do a search as there are some excellant example provided by Graham and for more exact info consult a book
like Peter Smid as that is how it will be done in Mach.
- Incremental IJs
see my write up in Members Docs....Mach3 Turn - ARC MOTION ....it surely will give you more than you want to know ::)
- Plunge clearance what is it, how does it interact with Z
see tutorial #6 page 101 / figure T6-Figure 4 ;)
- Line number increment : why use 5 rather than less, can you add line in between, like line 13 between 10 and 15
i like to use 10 - user preference that's all :)
-how can I reset machine coordinates without switches
read the Using Mach3 Mill Manual some.....click the Reference All Home and click each axis Zero buttons
Software manuals won't get you the specifics of using Mach, so start reading my friend, what more can i say.
RICH
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got to read far too many things already, my head is getting pretty stuffed ;)
I just think that any manual should document each and every features the software allows you to use, otherwise, what's the point of a manual?
This being said, I think I know all I need for my immediate use, the rest will come later.
Regarding LC goofing up, a restart won't sort anything, only reinstall and it won't last for very long.
FYI, LC Beta runs on Parallels Desktop 5.0 on my MacBookPro 2.2Ghz as well, and I have no problem with it, so I use it for converting to Gcode...
So a bug I believe it is, LC probably doesn't like my desktop configuration (Intel Core 3.2Mhz, ATI 9000 Pro, Win XP Pro SP3, 1500Mo RAM)
Thanks for the feed back and an altogether good program and quite simple to get into, I cut my first parts a really short time after I got all my gears (one week) and I'm very busy elsewhere, so that's a good point :)
Bye for now,
Bob
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just tried LC with the licence, much nicer I must say :)
Thanks again,
Bob
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-how can I reset machine coordinates without switches
read the Using Mach3 Mill Manual some.....click the Reference All Home and click each axis Zero buttons
sorry, I must not understand what you wrote.
If I click on "ref all home" the Z axis starts moving, but when I click Zero x,Zero y,Zero z, nothing happens, nothing resets and head keeps moving.
I must "Stop" in emergency not to brake everything...
Something I missed?
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Bob,
If you had 4 boxes in the drawing, then you are meaning to do an offset for all of the 4 boxes at once?
I don't remember ever doing that.
I wouldn't do that because if something is wrong ( say they are different and one of them has a problem with the selected offset / tool ) then your back to doing them one at a time......
Usualy i create an offset so i can do a specific machining opertation on that offset.
The selected entities which will be offset must be connected / form a closed chain. A layer can be made up of 4 entities that make up 1 box
thus you can create an offset of it.
Or 4 entities anywhere can be selected, and then connected and thus create an offset of them ( but that is like trying to use LC as a drawing program and that is really not recommended ).
Back in a short, let me try something......
RICH
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Bob,
Yes you can select multiple chains ( 4 boxes ) and do offsets of all of them at once,......but....... there will be times ........
and i believe it has to do with multiple offsets of a shape such as a sloted / elongated hole where LC may have difficulty creating all the offsets.
Make sure that you unenable the chains which you created the offsets from before posting code.
RICH
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Hello Rich,
yes, I've tried too, and it works with inside offsets but I'm having problems with outside ones.
I'm on my desktop now and got the problem importing a file that works on my laptop (and before on this one) it tells me "no entity found".
Then, another problem is that at import it creates a "printing zone" that is against the pieces to be cut with no clearance and I can't create any outside offset.
Last problem it that from are made out of two chains and I would need to unite (fuse) those two chain into one, how do I do this?
Is there a way I could send you a file I'm having problems with?
Bob
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Bob,
Post the dxf file. I will have a look when i get a chance.
You can only connect entities, you cannot connect chains ( well not easily).
Hmm...don't use LC as a drawing program, your drawing should reflect the machining operations you are going to preform. That's why i go to
great lengths trying to get that point across and the philosophy behind it including preparing a drawing appropriately.
On the ref all .......sorry about that, my bad as i assumed something .......Please take a look at Homing A Machine ( without limit switches ) in the Members Docs. I know, I know ......more reading....well....you can't change the the machine coordinates as they are set based on where the machine coordinate x/y/z =0 is defined.
RICH
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ok, I found something about referencing machine home without switches, I will attach the file down here.
I found out about why some DXF did not want to import : wrong opening autoclean settings, connection line tolerance was to high with 0.1 instead of 0.0001.
I'm almost sure it was the cause, but didn't check yet, see attachments.
Here are two different DXF, both import well now (the 9CAD imported even with the faulty settings though) but my problem now is that if I can apply "inside" offsets very well, "outside" ones won't apply. I see "rapids" changing in a strange way when I apply "outside" offsets in these two files, but no offset is actually drawn, even outside the 4 and 2.5mm holes.
What is wrong?
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What program did you create those drawings with?
RICH
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What program did you create those drawings with?
RICH
why? Don't you like them ;)
I created the drawing with Illustrator and exported in DXF.
Since Illustrator DXF does not import well (circles show as polygons) I then converted with AutoCAD (ACAD.dxf) and/or A9CAD (9CAD.dxf)
So what's wrong with those files?
I told you, I'm a noob...
;)
Bob
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Good grief Bob,
I quess you didn't read the info on DXF's i mentioned. Every time a "magic wand" converts the info it adds additional info until it's basicaly corrupted to a point that even a good inporter is useless.
Don't create drawings which are composed of blocks or cells with nested polylines inside the blocks which were copied to create the other dupicates and expect a magic wand to convert them into a version 12 DXF. Spend a few minutes and redraw them in 2d and save as dxf.
I won't even fool with them here.
RICH
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isn't it what I do with Illustrator, draw in 2D and export to DXF?
What do you recommend I should do then, what SIMPLE software will save "good" DXF for LC?
Is there a plugin for Illustrator that works? Because I can use Illustrator no problem, but the philosophy of CAD software is so different to what Adobe does that I'm completely drowned :(
And please no, don't fool with my files ;)
Bob
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Consider AutoCad Light and other folks may chime in with some other suggestions.
Check out the Resources link above which should have links to all kinds of CAD stuff.
Not to be demeaning on software, paint or "etch a sketch programs" and CNC just seem to work very well.
RICH
BTW, CAD just another book or two to read and learn..........all part of the learning curve ;)
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yes Rich, and this is exactly what I'm trying to avoid and why I bought a licence for LC today, because I don't have time for another steep learning curve.
I just need a simple software to cut simple parts for my prototype, that's all.
I guess I will just forget about all this and prepare all my offsets in Illustrator, it's gonna be much more simple, less risky and way faster than having to learn how to draw a rectangle in a CAD software ;)
Could you please explain this, I'm not sure I get it (unless you forgot a negation at the end) : "Not to be demeaning on software, paint or "etch a sketch programs" and CNC just seem to work very well. "
Don't forget I'm a frog and my english is very basic...
Bob
PS : were can I find LazyTurn manual?
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The programs are not vector based in that they don't create drawings based on math.
You can find the manual in Members Docs.
RICH
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thanks for the manual, what about a name for a simple and user friendly CAD program that would do the job?
Bob
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ok, so for those who like me can't be bothered to get into a new (very steep) learning curve and just would like to export simple 2D designs from Adobe Illustrator to LC, here is what you need :
http://www.baby-universe.co.jp/en/plug-in/products/exdxf-pro/
The files produced with this plugin will import in LC and so far, everything works just fine with those I tried.
I used tolerance of 0.01 and Poly + Arc or Line + Arc in export menu...
Rich :here are 2 files processed with the plugin. Probably not the cleanest, may be you could tell me how they look from a pro point of view.
"why complicate when you can do simple"
Happy Bob :)
PS : I know there are many answers to provide on the forum and days are unfortunately only 24h long...
I feel I have been privileged and would like to thanks Rich for his fast and valuable support.
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Bob,
Whatever works for you and satisfies what you want to do is what matters!
There is no one way or solution to anything. Have fun........ ;)
RICH
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sure Rich, we agree on this, every road leads to Rome indeed :)
Could you have a look at the files and tell me what you think though?
Thanks,
Bob
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Bob-titus
i took a look at the file SUPPORT TRIPALEX LINE ARC .using l-cam i zoomed in at a few of the chain junction points. attached are two views ,piece of a circle and a piece of a y-bone.
what ever you decide to use for drawing the results have to be perfect. l-cam will not compensate bad drawing. it will barf all over itself. these two pictures are good examples of
what l-cam finds that it wont like. the outcome will result in baldness and excessive drinking.good luck!
bill
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Hello Bill,
thanks for looking at the file :)
What about the other one, did you take a look too? Is it the same kinda story?
What magnification did you use for this screen shots?
What tolerance did you use while importing the files?
The files as I said before may not be perfect, but probably good enough for the use I want to make of them.
This being said, I wouldn't worry too much about both my hair and excessive drinking, at 51yo I've got all my hair and all I drink is water ;)
Thanks for your feed back,
Bob
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Bill,
I opened the same file in LC and zoomed as far as LC let me do (0.07) and couldn't see any artefact or broken line like the one you posted.
This is strange.
Bob
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Bob
i looked at the poly line, throw it it the trash can,dont ever do that again. bad bad bad !
use the zoom feature of l-cam. if you zoom real big and it seems to get stuck and wont shrink. go to the menu bar and click zoom and it will reset. then double
click the drawing and it will resize. connection size helps a little but that takes a bad connection and makes it a double bad with a connected bump. l-cam
offsetting and bumps == bad.
bill
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Bob
use the zoom box.
bill
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Bill,
I did use the zoombox.
Take a look at this, maximum magnification, cannot go any farther.
I'm getting this on both my computers...
No broken line, no odd arch, nothing all look perfect to me ???
Bob
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ok, I finally saw, you obviously knew where to look.
Could you tell me without exagerating in what way it's gonna be important that there is such a small gap in the design?
What will happen when I cut the design that has such a flaw?
Bob
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bob
you will have no chance with pockets or offsetting with broken chains. l-cam cant do the math.
bill
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:(
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ok, I've cut some pieces and all went fine, but I'm now regularly getting these "zero radius arcline 564" errors after offseting in LCam.
Why is LazyCam generating this error when creating offsets, and how can I get away with it?
Thanks for your help, this is rather depressing :(
Bob
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I get the same error, so i backloaded it from Mach3 Mill into LC and then reposted it and all was fine.
RICH
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I get the same error, so i backloaded it from Mach3 Mill into LC and then reposted it and all was fine.
RICH
Hey Rich :)
unfortunately it's not fine at all if you look at the screen capture attached...
I have worked all day trying to find a solution, but nothing seems to work, this is really annoying :(
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Explain the problem as you see it?
What are you trying to do? or How do you want to do the machining?
Is there a particular order you want to machine?
Pocket some, cut some, etc as i don't have the foggiest idea....... ???
I do see that some of those elongated slots didn't post and i have already said they can be a problem and also recommended that you assign them to individual layers / levels before importing so you can deal with them on an individual basis. (btw, i don't know why they present a problem to LC at times )
RICH
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it's very simple :
- all 4 pieces are being cut around the outside line using an outside offset
- all inside slots, windows, circles are being cut inside using an inside offset and that's where problems start...
The DXF optimised and relayered but without offsets done by LC exports to Gcode in Mach3 with no error.
Creating some inside offsets generates zero radius arclines and causes my problems.
Fwiw, I find LC altogether very unreliable / unpredictable since operations don't always repeat...
For example, I always do inside offsets first and then outside ones so I don't have to reorganize all layers again afterwards. Sometimes, creating outside offsets will extent to all items even those prior offsets no even selected!
Thanks for your help, I would appreciate finally being able to get into production, I find this all very frustrating.
Bob
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I should add that I really like the simplicity of LazyCam (the name says it all) that's why I purchased the licence for importing my DXFs and being able to create offsets, and that's what frustrates me the most, not being able to be lazy all the way.
I am now looking for an alternative solution in case this issue can't get worked around, but this implies a new learning curve that I'm not very keen on starting...
Bob
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Bob
post your dxf for that thing and what size tool you want to use.
bill
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Bob
post your dxf for that thing and what size tool you want to use.
bill
Hello Bill :)
ok, I will upload the file, but don't tell me it's crap please ;)
I'm starting to understand what you previously said about losing hair and stuff, even if all the milling I've done so far was perfect.
I managed to post Gcode from BamCam, all worked fine, only 4 narrower slots to the left didn't offset because they are smaller then my 1.2 tool (my mistake).
Actually, what happens if the tool is more or less the width of the slot and inside offset doesn't apply, will the slot be cut on the line or as much inside as possible?
Thanks for your help, I appreciate,
Bob
PS : I'm heading to bed soon, it's 4:20am here
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Ha Ha Ha
ok i wont junk it out right away.go to bed maybe i will have something for you when you wake up.
bill
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Dear Bob,
Your drawing does leave something to be desired...but..... i have remarked about drawing quality before to you.
The better the CAD work the more chance of having things go well. What more can i say....LOL
RICH
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Bob
attached are two l-cam files,one with offsetting one with out.both are made from a filtered tap file.will try to explain.
your cad does some trashy things but seems workable.I saw what you meant about the tight slots and drawing them to narrow.
this is how i processed your dxf. in l-cam load settings,set connection tol to 0.01 then loaded.after loading- turn rapids off-
turn leds off - clean - then optomise.dont do any more to the drawing.turn rapids back on.check all of the chains and make
sure they are completed and look at the rapids trail and make sure their are no double rapid to a chain.when it looks good
make a tap file with working Z action.post the code to mach3.then import from mach3 back into l-cam. that is how you clean
the cad trash out.their was one rectangle that did not offset to the inside.but it offset to the outside.when that happens
you offset outside.delete original then offset inside twice.now i am going to bed.
bill
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Hello Rich, hello Bill :)
Bill, thanks for your time and explanations, here are some points that may need clarification, sorry again if some sound really basic, I'm a noob :
- find attached my new loading options, please let me know what I got wrong if any.
- how do I actually check the chains are complete? How do I correct if one is broken?
- How do I remove a duplicate rapid?
Thanks for the offsetting tips,
Bob
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Bob
here a two pics from your files ,one is bad rapids and chains the other in good shape.it is like reading a road map.the rapid shows
where a chain starts and stops.if you draw a circle and their are two rapids that means the circle is in two pieces or your cad has
added a spare part to the circle.you have to find what has caused it.you can have the same cad on two differant computers and get
two differant personalities.over time you get aware of certain probables and fix them quickly.for the setup menu yours looks pretty
much like mine but i have the top box checked.the connection tol can be played with.i run from .01 t0 .0001 - move it all the time.
Hey Rich
does your A axis set both hor and vert.i finished my degree wheel tap for doing a hor wheel.it is scaleable.pretty sweet!
can post it if you want it.
bill
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Hello Bill,
thanks again for your time and enlightments, but last night I tried CamBam and got hooked.
It works right away with my files and generates Gcode in no time where I needed to struggle with LazyCam for hours without any security of success.
On top of that, the GUI and ergonomy is night and day with LC and icing on the cake, it's free :)
Sorry for all the trouble, I probably won't bug you any more with my crappy files that cut very nicely thank you ;)
Bob
PS : what can I do with my LC licence, is there a way to sell it back or resell it to someone because I could use the 75USD for something else now.
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Bob
I like cambam too,paid for it. also have access to mastercamX the shop next to me,nice guy. but i still look at the new and improved stuff too. it never ends.
also do a lot of longhand codeing,which i like the best.perfect cad everytime.as goofy as l-cam is it has a position as a useful tool.
bill
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I like cambam too,paid for it.
I've tried to find info about how much they charge for the "plus" version, but didn't get any hint.
How much did you pay for it?
Bob
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I think it is 149 now.did mine in the old days for 75.
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ok, thank a lot :)
Cheers,
Bob