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Author Topic: OMAG Stone/Granite mill retrofit..........  (Read 13138 times)

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Offline poppabear

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OMAG Stone/Granite mill retrofit..........
« on: January 23, 2008, 08:40:10 PM »
Here are the pics of the OMAG Gantry router type Granite mill. I put a guy standing on the table so you get an idea of the size of the machine. It has about 16' X, 10' Y, and 6' Z.

This the machine that I will be using 2 PLC on a TCP modbus and brians.

Scott
fun times

Offline poppabear

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Re: OMAG Stone/Granite mill retrofit..........
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2008, 08:41:27 PM »
more pics
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Offline poppabear

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Re: OMAG Stone/Granite mill retrofit..........
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2008, 06:59:17 PM »
It is interesting how things turn around......

   The company I built the Control for the OMAG retrofit, the owner wanted to see the fully functioning control laid out on the "Test Bench" for proof of concept. Well I did that and the next day once he saw he had a working control he "Laid me off", "due to the economic down turn".
This bothered me more than a little, I found out through another friend there that he just wanted me to build a working commericial Granite router control, because he wanted to build ground up OEM machines, and he was then going to take my control work and copy paste it over to the new machines........

Needless to say, I was a little peeved. I then find out that he hired some guy (much cheaper in price than me), to hang the control on the machine and get it working.

Well the turn around is, he got thrown to the wolves, the M6 alone on that machine was 9 pages long, and it had 6 brians, talking to 2 PLC's on the TCP modbus plus interaction with the Macro-Pump. Someone at the place had taken and reprogrammed the PLCs that where for that machine for another machine.

The Turn around is, I get a call yesterday to come and rescue the situation, and train the guy.  So needless to say I figure turn around is fair play, I charge him good money for the trouble to come down and bail them out. It was not the guys who replaced me fault, he is just looking for some work, I cant blame him at all. So I spend the whole day, giving him a crash course in mach. He is smart, and he will do well, but he relizes there is alot to learn.
I showed him how to do screen designer, and some basic VB, and how to set up modbus and brains. I suspect I will get a call again when it comes to implementing the ATC, motor tuning, an other debugging issues to get the machine up.

Here are a few screen shots of the control screens:
1). Program run page
2). Diagnostic 2 page
3). ATC page
4). Tool Location page

The diagnostic 2 page, has buttons for the user to test all the output functions individually for trouble shooting (left side)
Next to that colum, is the System OK LEDs these just show system running ok Status stuff, next to that is the Error columb where all the error Leds show up, to the right of that is the DRO columb that shows spindle status stuff, and status of Analog I/0, and Macropump counter status. bottom of page is Outputs

The ATC page is all the controls that that ATC functions need to do, and you can trouble shoot from here as well, and lock in your Tools capture coordinates.

The Tool Location page, is just the physical X, Y and Z location of each tool on the Rack, these dros are set by the capture buttons on the ATC page.

This control/machine only have 12 tools in the rack, so I cut out the other 12 that I had off the precious 24 tool screens that I had made, these screens are just modified from those old "Wine Rack" ATC type screens I put up a long time ago in the screens section.

the Run Page is just a standard 3 axis run page

Scott

fun times

Offline budman68

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Re: OMAG Stone/Granite mill retrofit..........
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2008, 07:49:27 PM »
You're a better man than I, my friend. I hope you got paid VERY well -  ;)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Just because I'm a Global Moderator, don't assume that I know anything !

Dave->    ;)

Offline Jeff_Birt

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Re: OMAG Stone/Granite mill retrofit..........
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2008, 12:02:08 AM »
Scott,

I've been thinking about this all day. I really hate to see good people get screwed over. What's really bad is that both the guy you built the control for and you could have done well with the idea of producing many similar controls (and you may have even designed things differently if you knew it was not a one-off), but he was dishonest and greedy.

I wonder what sort of contract you may have had with this fellow. Just because somebody hires you to build/configure/program something for them it does not me they own the IP (design, software, etc). It all depends on the contract. For instance: I got into some contract programming work a few months back (for company A), the company had a standard contract which I reviewed and asked for a few things to be changed. Because of this we both know who owns the IP (company A), it specifies that any work I do for my full-time employer is there property, that I am not prevented from doing other contract programming, that I have a guaranteed rate and term, and if they renig they still have to pay me. Such a contract protects both parties and more importantly it makes everything clear up front and helps to keep everyone friends if things go south.

Take this free advice as any other, it is worth what you paid for it...

Another example: I bet when Brian makes a custom MachII for and OEM that they don't own the source code. They would probably pay to have it customized for their use and then have a preset license fee.

Now, I would say this guy was deceptive up front, while I admire your spirit helping out the second poor schmo ( I think I would have felt sorry for him to), I really hope that you will consider protecting yourself with a contract this time. I would hate to see this clown copy all your hard work and make a bunch of money while sticking it to you. You should make it clear that any code you do for him (macros, brains, etc) conveys a single use license only, any design work on this machine is for that machine only. If he wants to mass produce the machine, he owes you for every unit sold.
Happy machining , Jeff Birt
 

Offline poppabear

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Re: OMAG Stone/Granite mill retrofit..........
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2008, 05:30:35 AM »
Jeff,

     The problem is, I was too trusting. When we discussed doing the Machine through my company, my hourly rate was too much for him. So, he made a counter offer to me. He told me that he would hire me on as a "Contract Employee" for 3 months to "Proove I could do it". He told me that if I got that control going, that he would hire me full time to be his control guy, cause he wanted to manufacture his very own Granite Mill, and his own line of CNC Granite Polishers, CNC Granite Saws, CNC Bowl Machines, etc. He said, if I could proove I could do what I said, (the Granite Mill Retrofit control being the test case), I would have a full time job, designing Mach3 OEM custom machines!!!   Now for me that is a "Dream Job", I am self Employed, and have been that way for a while now, Unfortunatly, the Paying Mach3 Machine build, control, screen or retrofit work is far between, I mostly stay afloat by doing CNC machine Repair (any type, specilizing in the Peddinghaus brand), the price I pay for that, is alot of travel.  Even though I like working for my self, the Other hats you have to wear is overwelming sometimes. So, to me, a full time job being paid a little less, BUT, not having to worry about Marketing, taxes, bookeeping, and all the other hassels that go along with being a One Man band was worth it to me, PLUS only infrequent travel.

I was Very Excited about having a Mach3 controls engineer job!!! Matter of fact I loved it!! The guy KNEW he had me, He got me for MUCH less than I would have made if I would have contracted it through my company.  It damm near Broke my heart when he laid me off AFTER I completed the control, and showed it working. I thought when he came to my office that he was gonna congradulate me and welcome me full time to the team. Boy was I shocked. Then to find out from my friend that I made there (who will remain unnamed), that His Plan from the beginning was to get a Working control and basically copy it and hang it on his other machines that he would build. He had looked at other control solutions: Fanuc, Siemens, Yaskawa and all of them where WWWAAAAAYYYY more than he wanted to spend on JUST the control.  I showed him, and sold him on the Fact that I could and DID, the same thing with Mach3.  I did sell him on this control, the thing is alot of my control work, was left uncompleted and was to be completed on the machine. The main one being the ATC itself, they decided to "Rebuild/Remanufacture" the spindle (The OMAG is an 1995 Italian machine), the old control was a "NUM", I had called the Italians to try and get the M6 routine from them, they didnt have one, they said, Num had it, so I called NUM, and they said that they no longer have records of the programming on a control that is that old. Bottom line is, I had to pull out the Mechanical CADs, and look at the Physical Spindle, and Prox locations to get an Idea of how it cycled. I then made a best guess sequence of events with current I/O on the spindle to build the M6. I Knew then that even though I would be close, I would have to tweek it on the machine. Further, the Debugging has NOT been done as far as on the machine functioning, NOR has any axis tuning been done.

     They guy who replaced me, I suspect will soon join this board and start asking for help from the Users on getting the rest of the project completed, and/or he will trow up his hands and have them call me in again to fix the above. I don't blame the guy really, he wants to do it himself to prove his worth to that company, and keep his job. My having to be called in to fix the problems is a " Threat" to his job security. Honestly, If our roles where reversed I would feel the same way that he does. The last thing you want at a new job is some outside "Expert" to come in and "Show you up".

YOUR ADVICE:  I will take it to heart and make it my own. The Owner mentioned to me, that he "May" want me to design a CNC Granite Polisher for him (Obviously the Wizards, and Controls), and they will do the physical machine. If that turns out to be True, perhaps I could pick your Brain on how to write the kind of Contract you discussed above, If I could send you the details?

    In my book, you only have your Word, Character and Integrity, I expect others that I do biziness with to be like me Especially Owners. I guess those qualities are NOT part of the Biziness world anymore. Thus when I see those failures, I am ultimatly disappointed and pay the price for Trust.

   Play it Forward: I am not patting my self on the back or anything, but I try to help answer questions by people on this board. Often I will just "Do the Solution" for them. I know that many of them are Biznesses and they will make money off my Ideas or work. But, I go into that knowing thats the case. I do it because in the beginning I needed alot of help, (still do here and there), and some of my issues where so I could finish this machine or that to sell it and make money.  I know that Upfront, what bothers me is, those that LIE to you and have already planned to screw you over at the beginning, and purposly take advantage of your kindness.

Jason "Zeolous" Blake, the Main Flash Guru on this board, and whom I consider a good friend, we work on things together alot, he has also done alot of custom Flash screens, or work for people who promissed to pay him, and they got the screens and then "Forgot" his name........... Jason has put HUGHE amounts of FREE programming labor into the Flash Screen stuff for our (the Mach community's) benifit. Yet, he only has a small trickle of income. The reason his Flash IDE is so late in being posted is, he is barely staying afloat himself. There are some OEMs that have left him high and dry as well. He, like me doesnt have the Time, Energy, or more importanly the money to go out a hire a Lawyer to fight for your rights against some OEM that comparied to you, might as well be Bill Gates.

***getting off, long winded soap box now****

Scott
fun times

Offline da21

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Re: OMAG Stone/Granite mill retrofit..........
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2008, 06:07:18 AM »
Scott,
With out hoggin the thread , yes i have been there and had the same similar results , your not alone .
i now do mostly as Jeff has suggested , it works !

a lot of companys do not realise the amount of work or experence , let alone years of knowledge needed of some machines .
retrofitting machines is not a fast process either   

as with all PC'S & Electronics  ,people think it's easy , and therefore cheap as chips ,

our work and computers  should carry a Goverment health Warning !

Dave

Offline Jeff_Birt

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Re: OMAG Stone/Granite mill retrofit..........
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2008, 05:18:04 PM »
Scott, as I said I just hate seeing good people get screwed. By no means am I a contract expert, I kind of fell into my contract job by chance and the company has a policy to have such contracts. After I read it I was even more impressed with them as it included several protections for me as well, even though primarily it is meant to cover them (an understandable so). Still, they were happy to make the changes I asked for. If you do any coding work for this guy again, specify that you copyright your code and that he only gets only license. I'll be glad to help you any on contracts if I can...

Happy machining , Jeff Birt
 

Offline poppabear

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Re: OMAG Stone/Granite mill retrofit..........
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2008, 10:44:17 AM »
Here are some Pics of the Two "Bat Caves" I got to work in while I was doing the OMAG Machine, "BatCave1" (the much cooler one), belonged to the Chief Electrical guy thier who I was working with, His office Test Wall was mostly set up to test PLC/HMI designes on purpose built PLC driven machines.

BatCave2 was the Test Wall that I built to set up and test out the Control system for the OMAG Mill.

The Drives where Automation Direct 2KW drives, 2 DL 06 PLC's in a Drop net work, Megellan Industrial Panel PC, with an ELO touch Screen, and standard BOBs.

I decided to post these up cause I finally found a way to get pics off my phone!!!

Scott
fun times

Offline RICH

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Re: OMAG Stone/Granite mill retrofit..........
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2008, 08:31:03 PM »
Scott,
I must say that you have shown just how configurable Mach is and what can be done by a competent person.
Your post add's another dimension to what many hobbiest will never know. Hope your talents serve you well.
RICH