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Author Topic: Mach3 under win10  (Read 29997 times)
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Shoecobbler
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« Reply #80 on: November 27, 2017, 07:56:05 PM »

I have a Dell Windows XP system that I've used for several years.  I am working on porting the system to Windows 10.  I've put together an Intel i7 NUC computer with 8 GB of RAM and 250 GB of SSD.  With 4 USB out, and no parallel port, of course, I have an ethernet smooth stepper (ESS) on order.  In the meantime, I'm working on controlling the Huanyang VFD for the spindle.  I've got a $7 USB to RS-485 from Amazon, and it communicates well with the VFD over twisted pair.  I downloaded a 32 bit driver for the old system and a 64 bit driver for the new system (NUC).  Both communicate with the VFD.

I have downloaded both the Matty Zee VFD plugin (HuanyangVFD.dll) and the Le Royaume plugin (vfdplugin.dll).  The only one I've been able to load into MACH3 on Windows 10 is the Le Royaume plugin.  The Matty Zee plugin will not load (usual message of defective plugin, following by message, "ignoring plugin.").  I have installed various C++ redistributables on the NUC.  I've had a lot of trouble installing .NET framework 3.5, but I'm not sure if the Matty Zee plugin needs this, or not.  Microsoft has made it difficult to install .NET 3.5, as various auxiliary files are missing, requiring one to use a special tool to build a special CD or file to load from.

I tested both plugins on the old (x86 Dell) system.  I've used the Matty Zee plugin for several years - no issues.  The Le Royaume can be made to run on the old system, but it generates ESTOPs intermittently.  You can run the same part over and over again, with same settings, and sometimes it ESTOPs and other times it does not.

QUESTIONS:
A.  HAS ANYONE GOTTEN MATTY ZEE PLUGIN TO RUN WITH MACH3 (3.043.062) ON WINDOWS 10 ?  IF SO, WHAT FILES (dependencies) ARE THERE (.net, c++ redistributable, ..) ??
B.  DOES ANYONE HAVE A SOLUTION TO THE WILD ESTOPS ON THE Le Royaume PLUG IN ?
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joeaverage
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« Reply #81 on: November 27, 2017, 08:31:01 PM »

Hi,
not sure what all those plugins etc are, why bother, Mach3 has Modbus builtin.

http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,35916.0.html

Rather longwinded thread but the OP got the job done.

Craig
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ger21
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« Reply #82 on: November 27, 2017, 09:57:46 PM »

Quote
not sure what all those plugins etc are, why bother, Mach3 has Modbus builtin.

Huanyang VFD's use a non standard form of Modbus, so Mach3's Modbus won't work.
Two users wrote plugins to enable Mach3 to control HuanYang VFD's with RS-485.
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« Reply #83 on: November 30, 2017, 09:03:47 AM »

This is a follow-up to my previous post on upgrading to an Intel NUC computer from a working system running 32 bit on older Dell.

I had issues loading the Matty Zee plugin, as I could not get .NET Framework 3.5 to load on Windows 10.  I found a solution to that and thought I'd share the HOW TO, as many folks are having this issue in the Microsoft Support Forums.  While there are in principle many ways to load .NET Framework 3.5, they seem to be problematic on the current Windows 10 for several folks.

.NET Framework 3.5 can be useful for this plugin and other older software (perhaps CamBam as well, for example).

Here's what worked for me, to install .NET Framework 3.5 on Windows 10.
1) Plug in USB Windows 10 installation media.  Go to x64 folder and copy folder "sources" to C: drive. 
2) Open a command prompt window with administrator priveleges (right click on Windows icon in lower
left hand corner) - Command Promp (Admin)
3) Type the following command:

dism /online /add-package /packagepath:C:\sources\sxs\microsoft-windows-netfx3-ondemand-package.cab

The copying from D: (USB drive) to C: drive may not be necessary, but I'm documenting what was known to work.

NOW ==> I can load the Matty Zee HuanyangVFD.dll in MACH3

For me, this means I can bring up the new system with most things the same, except for the Ethernet Smooth Stepper.  I have the plugin RS-485 device now working on both computer.  SO, I should be able to unplug the old Dell system and plug the  new one in for testing.  If I have to make parts, and the new system is having issues, I can replug the old computer.

When I'm done with this conversion, I'll post the details of all the steps I had to take to get the conversion done.
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Shoecobbler
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« Reply #84 on: December 10, 2017, 09:36:55 AM »

I have been able to bring up my new system with Windows 10 on Intel NUC i7 Computer.  I'm going to document this migration in case others may find something in there of use.

OLD SYSTEM: Made in 2012, from Chinese hardware and US based electronics by a friend of mine. 
    Gecko 540, Huanyang HY02D223B (2.2 kw) coupled to 1.5 kw spindle, Matty Zee VFD plugin for VFD control, Dell XP Pentium 4 using parallel port and serial to RS-485 for VFD control, iMACH3 Pendant
    Dell Pentium and ELO touch display.

NEW SYSTEM:  Re uses the Gecko and Huanyang, and all motors and mechanics and iMACH3 Pendant.  New computer is Intel NUC i7, with 250 GB of SSD, 8 GB of RAM, and is running Windows PRO (bought on
   thumb drive).  An ASUS VT207N touch display was added to replace the old ELO display. 
       Additional parts:
       1. Warp9 Ethernet Smooth Stepper (ESS) integrated into a box by CNC4PC, along with their C69 PWM board (not used; I didn't order this).  Use Port 1 (Ports 2 and 3 have additional
          capability not needed).
       2. USB to RS-485 converter JBtek converter ($6.99 on Amazon)
       3. A USB hub, with 4 additional outlets.  I plug all the user I/O into this hub: Mouse/Keyboard USB, Pendant, Touch Screen, and any USB for file transfer.

Both systems are wired 240V.  All the wall transformers, etc, work 100-240VAC.

I documented all of my steps, which is in the attached TEXT file.  The Warp9 site is very useful in terms of it's detail  I basically had the whole set up ready for MACH3 by the time the ESS arrived.  Most parts were gotten on Amazon, and they arrive
quickly.

I used the old system to make a wooden shelf, that had features to hold the NUC computer, USB Hub, and the ESS on the old system.  The machine had a set of rails to slide the Dell computer in.  This
wooden shelf could slide in on the same rails, and then the power, USB to RS-485 and parallel cable to Gecko simply plug in.

WHAT WENT WRONG - actually not much.  Here were the sticking points.
    1. I had trouble getting the Matty Zee plugin to load with MACH3 on the NUC Windows 10 at first.  Simply because I neglected to load .NET FRamework 3.5 onto the computer first.  Loading .NET Framework 3.5 was sticky only because I had disabled
       windows update service.  I found a way (see my earlier post) to do this with Windows Update shut down.  Easiest way is to load .NET 3.5 before you shut down Windows Update.  Minor problem in hind sight.  I've been told that Windows Update
       perhaps can't be shutdown with the Home Edition - - I chose Windows 10 Pro, so I can't comment accurately on that.
    2. The ESS in a box is pretty cool, but you have to take covers off to see the LED status when first getting it to talk to MACH3.  Take covers off, get communications going, and screw them back on.
    3. This was the most difficult, though not bad.  When I got everything installed, I could not get ESTOP to reset and motors were not powered.  I had set up the ESS to deliver a charge pump signal to the Gecko 540.  However, apparently the 540 was
        not getting a signal.  SO, in reading the Warp9 documentation, I decided to switch off the charge pump option on the 540 (a small switch for this). PRESTO ! all is good.
    4. It seems to be running really good, but I don't have many "miles" on it yet.  I used defaults for some of the dynamic settings, so some tuning might be possible, but not sure how much better it would get.

See the attached file for my step by step path.  In some cases there is a bit of detail.  In others, it is more of a summary of that step.

* Setting up MACH3 on NUC i7.txt (8.73 KB - downloaded 113 times.)
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cj7hawk
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« Reply #85 on: March 30, 2018, 09:41:16 PM »

I didn't realize Win10 was such an issue - I bought my CNC machine (early 6040) around 10years ago, saw the parallel port and "no laptops" restriction and left it as a shed ornament since then...  Only pulled it out a week ago and figured it was time to replace the parallel port with a cheap USB controller and start using it or sell it for scrap.

Anyway, the software runs OK on Windows 10, and I didn't want to be stuck with Windows 7, and I needed to do it all on the cheap since I'm just new to the software ( A couple of days experience ).

So, this worked for me and was cheap...

I'm using a $21 "RNR ECO Motion" card off Ebay ( cheapest USB breakout board I've found for Mach3 ) - and I'm only using 3 axis. They support 4 axis, but my controller box only has 3 Servo Outputs ( though I am adding a fourth, though only god knows what I might ever do with it... Still, $6 for the fourth stepper channel seemed cheap ).  I've noticed there are dozens of sellers with these cheap USB RNR ECO Motion cards... Most seem to have BITSENSOR.COM and an eagle on them. Some say SAINSMART. I suspect one of them is a clone.  But they connect straight up to Mach3 under Windows 10, with USB, and work great.

Mind you, they use an ARM 32F103 processor for the USB and they don't always like Win10 out of the box, but it's easy to get Win10 working with that series of chip, since most quadcopter drones all use them to talk to Windows 10 so they are well supported.

It plugs in, drivers come with it, the all work OK.  All inputs tested and working. Output 1 was tested ( just turned spindle on, voltage appeared... Seems to work ) so I assume the other 3 work also.

I had to reverse engineer it for the MPG attachment, but added a $20 MPG wheel and two $3 4-way switches so I can select axis and multiplier then stuck the wheel and the switches on my control box front panel.

Probe works very well. I'm cutting copper on PCBs so needs to be very accurate since the copper is warped and I'm using auto-leveling. Just an input and a set of alligator clips, and it finds the surface of the board very quickly and adjusts the Gcode.

Just working on connecting up the brushless spindle control today, and if that works, then it's been a good day and I have it all connected. It's taking me a little while, because I have less than 10 hours on Mach3 since I started, and CNC is new to me... So if I use a term incorrectly, please forgive the mistake - I'm just a newbie.

So far it works well on my Win10 PC, and I'm planning on using a laptop or a Win10 cheap tablet later to control it. The learning curve with Win10 and USB breakouts and Mach3 is pretty steep, especially as I have no prior experience, but the printed circuit boards seem to be milling (engraving?) well so far, so it certainly appears to be working.

Still, I noticed no one else mentioned these cards, so was there any reason no one seems to be using the cheap $21 cards with Mach3? Is it because they are only 100Khz? ( Everyone seems to be looking for 200 KHz models )

David
« Last Edit: March 30, 2018, 09:43:53 PM by cj7hawk » Logged
joeaverage
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« Reply #86 on: March 30, 2018, 11:13:00 PM »

Hi,

Quote
Still, I noticed no one else mentioned these cards, so was there any reason no one seems to be using the cheap $21 cards with Mach3? Is it because they are only 100Khz? ( Everyone seems to be looking for 200 KHz models )

No, because most of the time they don't work, the manufacturer/supplier wont respond to requests for back-up, and seldom do these cheap boards offer features like probing, auto-squaring, THC, lathe threading or backlash compensation.

If you spend a few hours reading posts on the forum you will discover that there are many hundreds of post along the lines: 'controller doesn't work....no response to email...no documentation....no plugin download'.

Craig
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« Reply #87 on: March 30, 2018, 11:20:17 PM »

Hi,
by the way 100kHz is not too shabby, standard Mach3 parallel port is 25kHz and yet plenty of good results can be had with that.

Higher pulse frequencies come into play when you start using high resolution encoders at high speed as found on all current AC servos. With electronic gearing you can still get good results with
100kHz but you can get better resolution and/or speed with 200kHz or better yet with 500kHz which is the common maximum differential signaling rate for AC servos.

Craig
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cj7hawk
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« Reply #88 on: March 30, 2018, 11:50:06 PM »

If you spend a few hours reading posts on the forum you will discover that there are many hundreds of post along the lines: 'controller doesn't work....no response to email...no documentation....no plugin download'.

I did... On this forum and every other forum I could find. If the steep learning curve of Mach3 isn't enough to deal with, figuring out the hardware at the same time makes it more challenging than a jigsaw puzzle Sad

But youtube videos helped a lot.

I started with a Novusun NVUM-SP and that was a waste of money. I got a partial refund, but the drivers are a mess. I did manage to get the servo pulses and direction working out of it in the end though under Mach3, but inputs failed. No drivers, no support. It was a loss of a few hours...

So I asked the seller next if their USB card was guaranteed to work with Mach3, and the next seller said he would guarantee the drivers were good for Mach3 ( the RNR model ) and they went straight in and were recognized immediately and showed up on the screen. I had no idea what the pinout labels meant, so more Youtube and Google, and got the stepper controllers working. Then I added a probe and just continued... Pinouts for the MPG were a challenge since they weren't mentioned in the manual and are not labelled. I did figure them out in the end though -

For what it's worth, they are;

Pin - Function.
1. VCC +5v
2. Gnd
3. Select X
4. Select Y
5. A
6. B
7. Select Z
8. Select A
9. x100
10. x10

Though they can all be used as generic low-voltage inputs with switches or open collector outputs too. Pin 1 is the closest one to the motor outputs.

Then I 3D printed a bracket so it would fit in the original box where the PP card was installed, and put in some banana sockets for Probe and another input into the spare space.

I also pulled out the spindle. It was connected directly to mains via a light dimmer style circuit ( As me how I figured that *%&$&%^$%^ out.... Ouch ). I hate unprotected mains power, so I decided to get a 400W brushless and a 48v PSU separately. I'll have to run that externally, but the connector hasn't arrived, so I've just poked some sockets through the hole where the spindle output went.  Later I'll put in a digital and manual control setup and put that on the front panel too.

The company that makes them seems to be working on a Mach4 version with an additional 8 or so inputs...  Would be nice. But I can't read Chinese so I can't order one, but they cost about $50.  If I can figure out how to get my wireless pendant to work with Mach4, I might even try getting that one and give Mach4 a go...

I'm pretty good with electronics and 3D printing, but Mach3 has been a real challenge to me. So much to learn....

Thanks for the explanation about the KHz needed. That might explain why I don't get straight lines anymore when I keep pushing up the acceleration and deceleration speed settings to make it go faster.

David

edit: added a picture of the install. There's nothing where the spindle controller was - since I'm still wiring up the external controller and PSU.


« Last Edit: March 30, 2018, 11:58:25 PM by cj7hawk » Logged
joeaverage
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« Reply #89 on: March 31, 2018, 12:45:39 AM »

Hi,

Quote
The company that makes them seems to be working on a Mach4 version with an additional 8 or so inputs...  Would be nice. But I can't read Chinese so I can't order one, but they cost about $50.  If I can figure out how to get my wireless pendant to work with Mach4, I might even try getting that one and give Mach4 a go...

I think you are buying yourself some trouble. I've heard of one Chinese company producing Mach4 ready gear:

http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,36023.0.html

Craig
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