Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => General Mach Discussion => Topic started by: joeoilrigs on July 06, 2018, 12:14:18 PM
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I am having trouble configuring Mach3 to work with my clearpath motors while using the SCHP feature on my c62 board.
The first problem is that the only way to enable the motors is through a hardware enable feature found on the RJ45 to clearpath driver cable converter bought from CNC4PC.com. This hardware enable setting causes the motors to always be enabled and thus i lose the safety features built into the motors in the event of a crash. The preferred method would be the software enable function on the cable converter which allows me to enable and disable the motors from Mach3. I believe there is a setting in mach 3 that would solve this problem but i cannot seem to find it.
My second problem is the SCHP feature. I have enabled the dip in the c62 board and configured it in Mach3 but for some reason the c62 board just keeps cycling from standby to ready every 5 seconds.
Here is a video i uploaded to youtube: https://youtu.be/cgBtevyujE8
Thank you for the help
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Hi,
the Clearpath manual shows Enable+ and Enable- in the 8 pin Molex IO connector, pins 4 and 8 respectively.
Page 42 shows that if 5-24V is applied to the Enable input is sufficient to enable the servo.
You need to set up an output pin on your BoB that hooks to the Enable input of your servos. That output would be under control
of your ESS/Mach.
Why bother with the charge pump? I've never had a charge pump setup in over five years I've been using Mach without problems.
I think the original idea was that it would prevent any unintended movement prior to Mach assuming control of the hardware.
If you turn the power on to your machine but without turning on the PC do any of the servos or spindle turn themselves on and move?
If not then maybe you don't need it either.
Craig
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You shouldn't even be able to turn the power on untilMach3 is running. That's what you use the charge pump for.
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Hi,
I can and do power up my machine and there is an interval when the PC is booting where power is available to spindle and steppers but
neither my spindle nor my steppers move until Mach instructs them to do so. I have had no reason to require the use of a charge pump
or other failsafe strategy.
Craig
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Hi,
one feature that I discovered about Clearpath servos is that the HLFB can signal a fault under depowered conditions.
There are several fault reporting modes available to Clearpath servos, the one of most value is a 'In Position' error.
The signal is active high when the servo is in position and the signal goes low or deactivates when the servo is out of position.
This is the reverse of most servos 'Following Error' fault.
This arrangement means that if the servos are depowered then the HLFB signal will de-activate and Mach would be required to treat
it as a following error when in fact its just that the power was disconnected even momentarily. This could have implications about how you
power up Mach and your machine.
If for instance you use a charge pump that discontinued pulsing when in Estop condition AND had a depowering strategy as Gerry has proposed
then you could not ever re-enable Mach because of an enduring HLFB fault by virtue of the servos being depowered. A sort of 'chicken and the egg'
thing where one precludes the other.
Another alternative would be to have the charge pump pulse despite being in Estop. I believe there is a setting that allows this. That would mean that
the servo power supply could be energized and therefore the HLFB would go high and clear the enduring Estop fault so that Mach could be Enabled.
Yet another alternative would be that the HLFB NOT be hooked directly to an Estop. Thus if one or more of the servos got out of position and faulted
Mach would not Estop but maybe you could program it to CycleStop or FeedHold instead. That would prevent the depowering of the servos.
Craig
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Thank you everyone for the input so far. Craig, you ma be right that i don't need the schp. I only considered using it because i wont be the only one using the machine. But for now i need to get it operational. So with that being said I do not quite understand how to send an enable signal to the motors through the breakout board. Here is the pin layout for the rj45 connection from the motor to the BOB. What would the port and pin be for mach3 to send an enable signal from the output.
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And what does HLFB stand for just out of curiosity?
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Hi,
H(igh) L(evel) F(eed) B(ack). Its in the manual, it is the fault signal line FROM the servo TO your
controller.
'In Position' is the same intent as 'Following Error', it indicates whether the servo can keep up,if it can't
follow its commanded input, or as Clearpath put it, stay 'In Position' then it will send a fault signal to Mach.
You will need to know all about it if you are going to use Clearpath servos.
Craig
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Hi,
the RJ45 plug I'm guessing was intended to go to Tecknics 'Motherboard' which you
don't have or want. Cut it off and wire direct to your BoB.
The Molex pins 4 and 8 are Enable + and Enable - respectively.
Craig
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Hi,
while I don't know how your spindle is wired or configured certainly your Clearpath servos
will require an active high Enable signal from Mach. Therefore the servos cannot move
even if the power supply to the servo is active AND there were sufficient noise on the
Step signal line to cause the servo to believe that a movement command has been made
because the Enable signal is low.
Once Mach is 'live' then the Enable signal can go high but the Step signal is under Machs control.
I don't think you are risking having the servos behave in some uncontrolled and potentially dangerous
manner prior to Mach assuming control and therefore a charge pump is not strictly required.
Confirmation that your spindle cannot inadvertantly start as Mach powers up.
Craig
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Thanks Craig,
Unfortunately my BOB needs the RJ45 connection for the motors and does not have input terminals for the servo wires. The BOB is a C62 board from cnc4pc. I am in contact with the board provider to confirm that the problem isnt with my board set up. I think there is configuration problem in mach3. Here is a pin layout for the RJ45 connections.
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Hi,
the Clearpath plugs are not compatible with your BoB.
The servo requires three inputs; step, direction and enable and produces one output; HLFB.
Your BoB has two outputs only; step and direction and one input; Err/Res.
You need to decide whether you are going to have one dedicated Enable per servo or one Enable that covers all of them.
Next you need to decide how you are going to handle HLFB. You could combine them so each or any servo causes a fault or you could
have one fault line per servo. This last alternative would be my recommendation. You will also have to decide if you want a servo fault
to cause an Estop.
Depending on what choices you make may well mean you require additional inputs, in which case you may need another C10 BoB to equip
another ESS port.
Craig
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Hi,
the C62 has two ports so you should have plenty of inputs and outputs. Shame that those connectors differ from your requirements.
Do you actually have the BoB? If not I would consider the C10 instead, it has screw terminals which will be very much more convenient for you.
Note that you would need two of them but the good news is that two C10's ($23.00 each) are still way way cheaper than one C62.
Craig
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Hello Craig,
That is sad news that i may need a c10 board instead of a c62 board. I am out of time with getting this machine up and running for my company. The gentleman that sold me the board told me that the board is compatible with my motors but based on what you have told me it is starting to look like that's not the case. I am going to relay all the information i have learned from this forum to him to give him a chance to explain it. Most of my research has been on the c62 board so i need to learn how to hook up the c10 board ASAP. Thank you Craig for all your help.
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Call or email Arturo at CNC4PC, and he should help you get it setup.
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Hi,
the C62 is perfectly fine, it just that you can't plug your motors in, you'll have to cut the plugs off and probably solder direct to the board.
The C10's are very simple boards. With screw terminals they are flexible. Note that it has no relays or other circuitry for a spindle, you will
have to make that stuff or add it. If you do get some get at least two, that will match the C62 as far as IO, but better get three. Then you can
have all three of the ESS port in action.
Craig
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Could i keep the c62 hooked up to the ess and use one additional c10 to operate the motors?
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Have you read the manual for the C34CP DRIVER CLEARPATH BOARD Rev. 1. This is the adapter that converts the 8 pin molex (from servo) to a rj45 cable (c62 BOB). This is what the manual says the C34CP driver does as far as the enable is concerned.
"Integrates the fault and enable lines to the breakout board. Allowing a driver fault
to trigger E-STOP and to be able to disable the driver when the system is
disabled."
Is this the enable function the C62 board is supposedly missing?
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Hi,
yes.
The only real let down with the C62 is not being able to hook wires to it conveniently. I see also that the manufacturer has published a set-up file
for the C62, but that would assume that the motors are hooked to it not another board. To be honest once you depart even slightly from the
manufacturers intentions their set up file becomes irrelevant and may engender MORE confusion of the operator rather than prevent it!
For the sake of simplicity I would recommend two (or three) C10s. Trying to retain the C62 is likely to cause you more confusion and remember
you will now have to set the ESS plugin up, the less confusion you suffer the better! The good news is that once you have set it up, and its not
rocket science, you will be confident and be secure in the knowledge that you can modify your basic setup in any way that you need. Very satisfying.
Craig
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Hey Gerry,
I have been in contact with Arturo and his brother for 2 months now. He has been a big help so far but this one problem hasn't been resolved yet. Thanks for the assistance though.
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Thanks Craig,
I am going to order the c10 boards and go that route.
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Craig, was your yes in your previous post to my latter question about the C34CP board?
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Hi,
Have you read the manual for the C34CP DRIVER CLEARPATH BOARD Rev. 1.
No, I haven't, I didn't know it existed, do you have one?
I think I can reasonably promise that if you had a couple of simple C10s you could get your machine running. No doubt the extra circuitry
of the C62 could be used to advantage but only if you follow the manufacturers/designers solution. As soon as you depart from that scheme
you are in trouble. By all means follow the manufacturer if you wish OR get some C10s and do it yourself.
Craig
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Yes i have a C34CP board for each axis.
I am pursuing the C10 route but also hoping that what Arturo from CNC4PC told me, which is that clearpath motors have been used with this board before, is true.
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If you want a really good breakout board for the ESS, look at the MB2 from CNC Room.
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Hi,
yes they are not bad but they have already assigned inputs and outputs in a particular
fashion...that means OP is back to having to follow one manufacturers design ideas
whether he wants to or not. Neither are they cheap.
Three C10s for under $75.00.....vs $150 for the MB2.
Craig
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Hi,
just read through the C34CP manual, they solve your problem don't they?
Just cut the RJ45 plug off Clearpath servo cable, solder on to the C34CP then plug
the C34CP into the axis socket on the C62.
Craig
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Yes Craig,
The C34CP board should solve the problem however the only way i can enable the clearpath motors is by switching the jumper on the C34CP board from SOFT enable to HARD enable. I would prefer to enable the motors through Mach3 but have been unsuccessful so far.
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After several hours of reading the manuals over and over I might have found the problem. If you could double check me on this Craig that would be much appreciated. I have attached the necessary documents for your convenience.
On page 41 of the Teknic clearpath manual there is a pin layout for the Teknic control cable. Pin 1 (green) is HLFB+ and Pin 5 (red) is HLFB-. According to the wiring example on page 50 of the same manual I need there to be 5-24v (from C62 input terminal) applied to HLFB+ and HLFB- needs to attached to GND on an input terminal of my B.O.B. in order for my motors to enable.
The C34CP adapter manual on page 5 shows the clearpath to RJ45 pin layout. Clearpath pin 5 (HLFB-) is connected to RJ45 pin 4 (GND). This connection is correct but when you look at the Clearpath pin 1 (HLFB+) there is no corresponding RJ45 pin applied.
So it seams the closed required to enable the motors does not exist. Please let me know if this looks correct. I also attached the C62 B.O.B. manual to show you the RJ45 pin connection to the B.O.B. layout. See page 15.
Thank you
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Hi,
applied to HLFB+ and HLFB- needs to attached to GND on an input terminal of my B.O.B. in order for my motors to enable.
No HLFB is the fault signal. There are a few options how you program when the HLFB operates inside the servo but the most useful
one is 'In Position'. So when the servo is in position and correctly following the input commands the signal will be active.
Thus if you have 5-24V on HLFB+ under normal circumstances 5-24V will appear on HLFB-. If however the servo can't keep up
with its commanded input then HLFB- will be 0V.
You will want Mach to monitor this signal and if the servo faults then it will probably Estop. You could use a Brain in Mach3 or you could
attach it to a limit switch so that if the servo faults Mach equates that with a limit switch event and turns off.
To enable your servo attach 5-24V to Enable+ and 0V to Enable-.
Craig
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Hi,
this is on page 3:
Soft enable mode is available only when using the C32 and C62 boards. In this case
the C32 will enable or disable the drive and it also monitors the driver alarm signal.
Thus if you have the jumpers set for soft enable when Mach enables it will also enable your servo. It apparently monitors
HLFB as well. It doesn't say which pin or how its monitored but my guess is that its hooked to the Estop pin, ie if any of the
servos fault Mach Estops.
The manufacturer has made provision for you if you wish to use it. If you do want to use it you have to follow their instructions
exactly. The other alternative is use C10s and then YOU choose how to wire it and which pin does what.
Craig
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The C10 boards are on there way, but for now i am going to continue to troubleshoot the C62 board hoping that all my work wasn't for nothing.
Craig, did you see that the HLFB+ was N/A on the C34CP board? Doesn't that mean there will be no fault signal which as a result will not allow the motors to enable?
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Hi,
the C62 RJ45 sockets for the axis motors have a terminal Err/Res....an error and reset.
The C34CP presumably adapts the HLFB of the servo cable to the Err/Res of the C62.
It is not plain to me how the manufacturer combines all the Err/Res lines or to what ESS pin or pins to which it is attached.
No doubt we could find out but it highlights the problem that the C62 has and other boards like it.....the manufacturer has made
certain decisions regarding how certain functions are handled and to which pin or pins they are connected and you now have to
play catch up.
The simple expedient is cut the RJ45 plug off one of the servo cables, solder the wires onto the C34CP per the diagram provided,
plug it into the C62 with a short jump cable and try it.
A few hours experimenting on the board with a multimeter will teach you what you need to know, more than any 100 videos or 1000 forum posts.
If you which to use the C62...do so If you wish to be the 'master of your own destiny' by using the much simpler C10's....then do that and post the
C62 and C34CPs as surplus for sale.
Craig
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The C10 boards will be here tomorrow so i am focusing my energy on learning how to configure these boards. So far they seam much easier to set up. Thanks Craig for all the time you put in to helping me. I am going to keep the C62 board and try to work on it later. The manufacturer says it should work and he has been helpful on so many other occasions.
Once again thank you and if i ever figure out what was wrong with the C62 board I will post a reply on this thread.
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Hi,
I doubt there is anything 'wrong' with the C62, its just not easy to follow exactly what the manufacturer intended.
The C10's will both be easier AND harder....easier in that you can choose how to arrange the inputs and outputs and harder for the
same reason!
Craig