Machsupport Forum

Mach Discussion => Mach3 under Vista => Topic started by: gorantec on June 03, 2015, 08:24:21 AM

Title: Mach3 under win10
Post by: gorantec on June 03, 2015, 08:24:21 AM
Will work mach3 under windows 10 if i update from windows 7 ?
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: ger21 on June 03, 2015, 08:55:12 AM
The parallel port driver won't work. If you're using a motion controller, than it should work fine.
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: whiteknight5951 on August 25, 2015, 04:32:20 PM
Is there going to be a fix for the parallel port so Mach can run on Windows 10?
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on August 26, 2015, 03:38:23 AM
Is there going to be a fix for the parallel port so Mach can run on Windows 10?

Unfortunately not - Win 10 will require an external motion controller for Mach3 operation.

Tweakie.
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: SpyderMike on January 12, 2016, 07:55:12 PM
what if its 32bit version of windows 10?
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: ger21 on January 12, 2016, 09:07:45 PM
No. If you want to use the parallel port, you need to use a 32 bit version of Windows 7 or older.
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: SpyderMike on January 13, 2016, 09:10:31 PM
so the only way to get mach 3 to work with windows 10 is through a break out board or something similar?  I've been scouring the internet for the last 2 days looking for a definitive answer to this.
I was told that set up with a PCI slot parallel port card and 32 bit OS it should be good to go. 
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: ger21 on January 13, 2016, 11:05:58 PM
Who told you that?
Mach3's parallel port driver will only work in Windows 7 and older, and is 32 bit only.

For Windows 10, you need a motion controller, not a breakout board.
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: SpyderMike on January 13, 2016, 11:09:03 PM
Thanks

It was passed along to me from "mach 3 tech support"... so 2nd hand info
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: boostedr36mk3 on April 18, 2016, 02:45:48 PM
Why don't they compile the driver for 64bit?
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: ger21 on April 18, 2016, 08:01:08 PM
Why don't they compile the driver for 64bit?

Because it's not your typical driver, and it's not possible.
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: boostedr36mk3 on April 18, 2016, 08:14:43 PM
So its not actually a parallel port driver. To say its not possible is vague. It would be possible if they developed the parellel port driver into the product would it not. Either way, there obviously is no interest in doing so. Thanks
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: ger21 on April 18, 2016, 08:35:30 PM
It's been looked into, and it's not possible.

No, it's not just a parallel port driver. It actually does a lot of the work for Mach3.

It actually acts somewhat like a virus, and actually has control over the operating system at very low levels. I don't have the knowledge or ability to go into details, but from what I understand, newer operating systems (and 64 bit versions) don't allow the "driver" to do what it does on older 32bit operating systems.
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: ubsi on May 01, 2016, 08:57:02 AM
Hey guys, can we use a USB to Centronics (Parallel) adapter to solve this?
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: ger21 on May 01, 2016, 09:06:20 AM
no
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: ubsi on May 01, 2016, 01:18:03 PM
Ok
no

Ok wbt this USB-Parallel Port Interface ?
http://www.cncdudez.co.uk/2006-frame/usb-par.html
Or this ?

http://www.ukcnc.info/forums/Electronicsoverview.php

Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: ger21 on May 01, 2016, 03:37:18 PM
No, and no.
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: lenny on December 25, 2016, 01:25:18 PM
what type of breakout board do I need to purchase for Windows 10?
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: Tweakie.CNC on December 26, 2016, 02:09:27 AM
what type of breakout board do I need to purchase for Windows 10?

Choose the Motion Controller you are planning on using first then select a BoB that is compatible with it.

Tweakie.
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: midiman310 on February 06, 2017, 04:19:53 PM
what type of breakout board do I need to purchase for Windows 10?
I had success with a 200KHz USB controller off of ebay that went for around $80 enclosed in aluminum frame.  DDSMV5  is the model number.  I think they've it's been replaced by a newer model DDUMV5.  Driver seems stable so far.  I can do anything as before when I had the standard Parallel Bob.  I'm now running it from a micro windows 10 computer thats 3" x 6" x 1/2" thick!  To get around problems at set up, once you plug in the USB controller, have windows re-install itself.  It was a new $60 computer so, it was fresh out of the box.  Now install Mach3 ...66 release.  Whatever you do, DO NOT install the Mach printer driver!! Controller came with it's own driver, install it into your plugins folder, install your lic file in the Mach3 directory, then launch Mach 3.  On the very first run you should get a popup window showing your new USB driver.  Select it and Mach3 workspace.  Immediately go to the config plugins menu and select your new driver to configure.  Once done be sure to go back through your config files and place all the necessary configuration info.  Works like a champ!
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: ger21 on February 06, 2017, 05:49:52 PM
As long as you don't need accurate probing, or any other features that it doesn't support. Most if not all of the chinese motion controllers do not properly support probing in Mach3.
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: Claytonium on June 30, 2017, 04:01:07 PM
Upgraded to Windows 10. CNC doesn't work with Parallel Port. From the configuration I have, and from what I understand, it seems that I have a Break out Board but not a Motion Controller. I was wondering if anybody could recommend me a motion controller based off of the specs of my setup? The specs to my set up are included in this nifty Wiki Page:

http://wiki.zentoolworks.com/index.php/Pre-Assembled_Mach3_Breakout_Control_Instructions
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: joeaverage on June 30, 2017, 10:41:04 PM
Hi Caytonium,
CNCdrive UC100 and PMDX 411 are USB connected motion controllers with a standard DB25 socket. They are around $100 and both companies
have very good reputations for support. Note that both of these have a Mach4 plugin if you wish to step up at some time in the future. Note also that
they are equivalent to ONE parallel port, if you want more IO or think that you might in the future then consider Warp9 USS or ESS , Pokeys 57U or 57E
series or PMDX 424. They all have more IO, the 424 the equivalent of 'two ports worth', the USS or ESS 'three ports worth' and the PoKeys devices even more.
Excepting the USS they are Mach4 capable, good support policies and cost effective, between about $100-$225.

Vital Systems Hicon board or DSPMC unit are very good but $600 and more depending on features and Mach4 capable.

CSlabs make a very nice 4 axis unit for around $250 and a 6 axis for $600. Neither are Mach4 capable at the moment.

There are plenty of Chinese offerings as well. It has escaped my attention that any of them are very good and seemingly China might as well be on
another planet when it comes to support but they are extremely well priced.

http://www.cncdrive.com/ (http://www.cncdrive.com/)
https://www.pmdx.com/ (https://www.pmdx.com/)
https://warp9td.com/ (https://warp9td.com/)
https://www.poscope.com/products/pokeys-devices/ (https://www.poscope.com/products/pokeys-devices/)
http://www.vitalsystem.com/portal/index.php (http://www.vitalsystem.com/portal/index.php)
http://en.cs-lab.eu/ (http://en.cs-lab.eu/)

Craig
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: joeaverage on July 03, 2017, 04:03:13 AM
Hi Claytonium,
I have been reminded to mention other manufacturers, it always dangerous to make recommendations and comparisons between competing
products, if your information is the slightest bit weak or worse wrong then it can cause offence to various stakeholders!

Two that I omitted from the list above are Galil and Dynomotion. Both companies have been around seems like forever and have great products.

A three axis Ethernet connected Galil controller can cost anywhere between $1000 and $2000 depending on various features offered. Extra axes cost more.
As you can see these products are VERY classy and would be at home in high priced industrial equipment, beyond my budget. Also at this time don't believe
there is a Mach4 plugin ready to go.

Dynomotion have a Kflop board for about $250. There are add-on components that add features but all in all is pretty well priced. Not sure whether there is
a Mach4 plugin yet.

Should point out that any controller that doesn't have a Mach4 plugin or one in the pipeline gets little interest from me. I don't have to defend that position either,
I like Mach4 and its potential is just so much more than Mach3 and if some manufacturer doesn't like that..... TUFF!!

http://www.galilmc.com/ (http://www.galilmc.com/)
http://dynomotion.com/index.htm (http://dynomotion.com/index.htm)


Craig
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: consaka on August 20, 2017, 02:27:32 PM
Ok I am a bit confused. Granted I am a bit new to the whole CNC world but I did recently put together a decent sized machine from a kit I bought online for somewhere near $300.00  It came with a tinyg board that plugs directly into my laptop.  The software learning curve is a tough one. To do most things it seems to take up to 3 or more different pieces of software that could easily cost more then the cost to build the machine.  First you need the software that actually sends the gcode to the CNC router. In my case it is chilipepper or some such thing. But you also need software to create the code in the first place.  That software seems to depend on what you are actually doing.  Of course if you want to convert a picture or a template you need another piece of software.

So my background is mechanical and I have welders and a cheap plasma machine. My son also picked up a broken 3d printer we want to fix but need a new controller board for it. Of course we also need software for it.  All we have are laptops of cheap vintage. Namely the cheapest you can get at Costco. They only have USB ports. This talk of BOB's and motion controllers is confusing. So what is the tinyg board that I am using? Is it a BOB or a Motion controller? Will mach3 or 4 not work with a tinyG board? I want to build a CNC plasma cutter table but I still have to control it. I was going to try to either use my spare smoothie board for either it or the 3d printer but not sure which it would be good for if either.  I also heard plasma produces a noisy environment that can mess some boards up plus you have to hack into the torch for on and off control.

My son uses the router table and would probably use the 3dprinter with his laptop. I need to be able to use all three with my laptop.  Am I going to be able to use mach 3 or 4 without going completely broke?
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: joeaverage on August 20, 2017, 02:58:43 PM
Hi,
the tinyg board is a motion controller and 4 axis driver. The drivers are very small and will only accommodate small stepper motors at low voltages.
If you want to drive bigger motors with higher voltages say 60-80V then you will need standalone drivers. In the Mach world US maker Gecko has a
great reputation for making reliable drivers but they'll cost you $100-$200 each.

A Mach capable motion controller will cost $100 or more. You could with the right PC and OS use a parallel port which means you don't need a motion
controller but you'll still need a breakout board.

Mach3 costs $175 and Mach4 costs $200.

Craig
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: consaka on August 22, 2017, 12:14:24 PM
Thanks Craig.

The nema 23's that My router table uses seem more then adequate but I guess if I wanted mad speed I would need something bigger then thenema23's and  tinyG. What I like about the tinyG is I can control the amps going to the motors right from the board. You raised a few more questions though. The tinyG setup I have uses ChilliPepper to send the gCode to the tinyG and for me that is bad since it requires internet access or a nerd genius to figure out how to download some files and tweak those files to work offline. So would mach3 or mach4 even work with the tinyG? Keep in mind all I have is laptops from windows 7 to windows 10.

I also have a smoothieboard I can use for one of the upcoming projects. Am I correct in assuming it too is a motion controller and 4axis driver?
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: joeaverage on August 22, 2017, 02:53:07 PM
Hi,
the TinyG will not work with Mach, 3 or 4.

The principle activity of Mach is a Gcode interpretor, secondarily but still importantly, it is an IO program. In the early days when the parallel port
was the only option for hobbyists it also provided the code for the PC's CPU to be the motion controller. These days most people use an external
motion controller like the UC100 or a Smoothstepper. The parallel port still works and is free but it can be problematic and restricts the choice of
PC's you can use.

Probably the cheapest way forward for you, if you wish to go the Mach track at all, is a UC100 or a PMDX-411 and a Gecko G540.
The UC100 or PMDX-411 are motion controllers, they plug into a USB port on your PC and produce output signals on a DB25 plug familiar to
anyone who've used a parallel port in the past. They are about $100. The Gecko G540 is a combination stepper motor driver and breakout board.
It accepts signals from a DB25 socket, just perfect for the UC100/PMDX-411, and has four DB9 plugs for four steppers and a bunch of screw terminals
for home/limits/spindle etc. The G540 can handle 50V, not earth shattering but quite enuf to make your steppers take notice. You can set the motor
output current by soldering a resistor of the right size into your DB9 plug, easy. The G540 is $300. As I've said before and others will endorse Gecko
make reliable gear, I'm sure you can find cheaper but I doubt you'll find better.

With these two items and the licence cost of Mach you are looking at an investment of about $600. You might wangle a way to do it cheaper but probably
not by much and certainly with less manufacturers and forum support when it comes time to get it to work.

The advantage of Mach over the software that you've already tried is that the Gcode programs which run it are 'industry standard', or at least as standard
as it gets, it copies Fanuc Gcode, about 80% of the industrial market. So you could go to a half million dollar machining centre and see and understand the same
code that runs your router at home. Also all the CAD/CAM programs which are used industrially you can now use. Be warned a lot of them are VERY expensive,
Mastercam, one of the oldest and most capable CAM programs costs about $20,000 and $2500 a year! There is a new player out there though which is transforming
the hobby CNC scene, its called Fusion 360. It is a CAD/CAM program written and maintained by the Autodesk, the same company who bring us AutoCAD and
HSMWorks two very capable and expensive bits of software, but Fusion 360 is free! Even better than free is its damn good too. Even if you decide not to go Mach3
you can still download and fiddle with Fusion 360.

You'll have to decide whether Mach represents a good investment for you. You can download and experiment with Mach3 and Mach4 without cost. The Demo versions
are fully featured but can only do tiny little jobs before you have to reset it. My personal preference is Mach4 being the new and developing version.

I have no idea what a smoothieboard is...I have Mach thanks and don't need any of the pretenders!

Craig

https://www.pmdx.com/ (https://www.pmdx.com/)
http://www.cncdrive.com/ (http://www.cncdrive.com/)
http://www.geckodrive.com/ (http://www.geckodrive.com/)
 
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: consaka on September 11, 2017, 06:11:01 PM
Thanks Craig. I guess if I ever need to go industrial I'll know where to start. And by industrial I mean someone drops a project in my lap with a pile of money and says, "do it!"

I have heard good things about Fusion360 and I use Tinkercad for the kiddies to learn on but for myself I can't be tied to the net so I use DesignSpark. Seems to work pretty well with short learning curve.

A smoothie board is just a controller board. It can be used for just about any CNC operation. Often used for 3d printers.  Probably about the same caliber as a tinyG only more capable.

Cheers.
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: Dcj on September 25, 2017, 06:33:31 PM
I'm new to this forum.  I'm building a cnc router and just investigating now.  Just want to be sure about something.  Am I correct that I should be able to use a windows 10 desktop with the usb port to a motion controller feeding the parallel port on the breakout board for the motors.  Thanks.  Great stuff here!
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: joeaverage on September 25, 2017, 06:58:39 PM
Hi,
yes, the critical point is that Windows 10 needs a motion controller  OTHER than a parallel port.
As you may have seen there are plenty to choose from, including USB and Ethernet, with Ethernet preferred, its faster
and has less latency when coming to Feedhold etc. Do your self a favour and don't buy Chinese, they might be cheap
but thats about all to recommend them.

Would recommend also that you choose from among the models that are Mach 4 ready, you may want to upgrade
and don't want to have to buy a new controller to do so.

Craig
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: Dcj on September 25, 2017, 07:09:55 PM
Good information.   I'll look for a motion controller that will work with Mach 4.  Thanks,
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: consaka on September 26, 2017, 12:09:46 PM
I guess it depends on a number of factors.  Mostly it depends on whether or not you want to use a mach3 software or mach4 software or other software. mach related software seems to be industrial oriented as well as the corresponding hardware. There are other alternatives for the hobby users though that is a lot cheaper.  Like the standard arduino with Ramps board attached to it or even the tinyG and smoothie as hardware solutions which allows you to pretty much use any software you wish with the exception being mach3 or 4 software. I know with the arduino and ramps combo and boards like the smoothie board you can use those for ANY CNC style operation from 3d printers to laser cutting and engraving as well as wood routing.
I'd say if you are going for industrial strength and a full time business and you have the money stick with mach software and supported hardware.  Otherwise if you want flexibility to use your cnc for whatever and if you want simplicity then explore the other widely supported open source solutions I mentioned a few of. Probably the most common is the Arduino Ramps combination.  Literally both can be had for around 60 bucks or less and a good amount of the software is free and widely supported.  If you do decide to go this route I would suggest getting the Arduino Ramps combination already set up for the type of CNC you plan to do.  Find a supplier that can load it with a config file or firmware for your configuration. In other words if you have a dual stepper motors for y or z axis and or one for an extruder if you want to do 3d printing.  Good luck with your project.
 

I'm new to this forum.  I'm building a cnc router and just investigating now.  Just want to be sure about something.  Am I correct that I should be able to use a windows 10 desktop with the usb port to a motion controller feeding the parallel port on the breakout board for the motors.  Thanks.  Great stuff here!
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: joeaverage on September 26, 2017, 02:13:46 PM
Hi,
if cost is the prime determinant then Linux CNC, its free. Uses industry standard Gcode, within the exception that there is no standard as such but close.
Software is all open source. If you want to fiddle with Linux...

Craig
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: consaka on September 26, 2017, 05:44:14 PM
Fiddling with Linuxs is a pain and something most people have no time for.  In the world of CNC 3d printing, MatterControl is free. So is Cura and a slew of others.  You do not have to fiddle with Linux for low cost solutions. Each of the various branches of CNC have free or close to free software solutions.  Typically dedicated software you pay for will be more functional but it doesn't even guarantee better support. The most common open source solutions often have a huge support community.  My suggestion is for anyone new to CNC to play around with the free solutions until they become skilled enough to understand how everything works and what features they need and or want.  Then explore some paid for solutions to see if they might get more. That is what I did with 3dprinting. I started with MatterControl and played with Cura and Slic3er. Then I got Simplify3D since it really combines the best of the free solutions. 


Hi,
if cost is the prime determinant then Linux CNC, its free. Uses industry standard Gcode, within the exception that there is no standard as such but close.
Software is all open source. If you want to fiddle with Linux...

Craig
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: joeaverage on September 26, 2017, 06:26:27 PM
Hi,
agreed Linux is daunting for most, ergo Window based software of which Mach is among the most capable and cheap.

There are a number of features that good CNC software/controllers are capable which are not available with controllers
for 3D printers. Backlash compensation,Torch Height Control, probing and for certain controllers high bandwidth closed
loop servo control, multiple encoder input, CCW/CW and quadature outputs, Modbus and/or serial plugins....this is
not an exhaustive list, just among the ones I know.

Craig
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: consaka on September 27, 2017, 11:15:03 AM
Controllers/software for 3d printers are CNC. Obviously a 3d printer is not going to need torch height control is it? Hehehe. I mean after all it is a printer and not a plasma torch. But then how many plasma torches have extrusion width control or thickness control? Your assertion is completely apples and oranges. Much of the software out there can be found that support those features. I must point out that many of those features are production level features. A hobbyist would not need.

Hi,
agreed Linux is daunting for most, ergo Window based software of which Mach is among the most capable and cheap.

There are a number of features that good CNC software/controllers are capable which are not available with controllers
for 3D printers. Backlash compensation,Torch Height Control, probing and for certain controllers high bandwidth closed
loop servo control, multiple encoder input, CCW/CW and quadature outputs, Modbus and/or serial plugins....this is
not an exhaustive list, just among the ones I know.

Craig
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: ger21 on September 27, 2017, 11:41:08 AM
Quote
My suggestion is for anyone new to CNC to play around with the free solutions until they become skilled enough to understand how everything works and what features they need and or want.  Then explore some paid for solutions to see if they might get more. That is what I did with 3dprinting.

3D printing is a very different animal from milling or routing. Imo, the free CNC solutions are really lacking a lot of features that even the inexpensive paid controls now have. In addition, paid controls usually offer a considerable ability to customize the control to allow the users to add even more functionality.

Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: joeaverage on September 27, 2017, 01:04:45 PM
Hi,
Quote
I must point out that many of those features are production level features. A hobbyist would not need.
Bull*********, the reason I know these things are because I use them....

Craig
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: ger21 on September 27, 2017, 01:36:50 PM
There are also many instance where hobbyists use features that are never needed for production work.
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: consaka on September 27, 2017, 10:15:25 PM
Hi,
Quote
I must point out that many of those features are production level features. A hobbyist would not need.
Bull*********, the reason I know these things are because I use them....

Craig

Goody for you. You aren't everyone else.  You also are either not a hobbyist or are one with deep pockets. Not everyone has such luxuries as endless amounts of money. Yet a good hobby keeps many people from going insane. Your attitude seems to be to pay up for the fancy stuff or don't play.
Fact is hobbyists do some amazing work especially considering most of the free software out there is a result of multiple hobbyists working together for a common goal.  Community based projects off another perk that many hard-line production software doesn't. And that is flexibility of features. How many times have I seen someone come up with a great idea in a forum and have it end up as a feature in the software.  Many times though I also still have some ideas that were added to production software per my request but that is pretty rare and it was a smaller company way back when. Usually if you want something and it isn't there you are just out of luck or you have to pay some big bucks to have it custom made for you.
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: omiadhi on September 28, 2017, 01:48:23 AM
there is an adapter usb 2.0 to parallel port can we use this for win10 64 bit  to mach3??? & you can check that adapter using below link.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-USB-To-DB36-Female-Port-Parallel-Printer-Print-Converter-Cable-LPT/32708591453.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.63.ov4h6s&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_1_10152_10065_10151_10068_10344_10342_10343_10340_10341_10307_10137_10060_10155_10154_10056_10055_10054_10059_10532_100031_10099_10338_10339_10103_10102_10052_10053_10142_10107_10050_10051_10172_10326_10084_10083_10080_10082_10081_10110_10111_10112_10113_10114_143_10312_10313_10314_10078_10079_10073,searchweb201603_14,ppcSwitch_3&btsid=d14ae4bf-e621-4961-8e4f-5e8a59df0839&algo_expid=10716070-665e-407f-a1c5-b4b349094be9-8&algo_pvid=10716070-665e-407f-a1c5-b4b349094be9
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: joeaverage on September 28, 2017, 01:58:54 AM
Hi omiadhi,
I don't think it will work, plenty of people have tried but none have succeeded to get Mach running a parallel port with ANY 64 bit OS including
Windows 10.

The device in the link will probably work with a printer but Machs 'parallel port' is much more than that. It is the code that runs on the CPU to generate
the pulse streams for the motors. The security features of 64 bit OS prevent the wrinkle that allowed the code to run on 32 bit systems.

The device is cheap enuf, try it...but don't be surprised if it doesn't work.

Craig
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: joeaverage on September 28, 2017, 02:03:07 AM
Hi omiadhi,
have a look at
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,13761.0.html (http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,13761.0.html)

Craig
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: omiadhi on September 28, 2017, 02:24:50 AM
guys could anybody tell where can I buy external motion controller for mach3 need to use in WIN 10  64 bit please
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: joeaverage on September 28, 2017, 02:27:14 AM
Hi,
try page tree of this post.... there is a list...

Craig
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: joeaverage on September 28, 2017, 02:27:56 AM
Hi,
sorry page three (3) that is.

Craig
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: joeaverage on September 28, 2017, 02:31:16 AM
Hi omiadhi,
if you decide you like the UC100, and thousands have, just beware that there is a whole bunch of cheap Chinese knock offs on Ebay
at the moment, best but direct from CNCDrive or their US distributor.

Craig
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: consaka on September 28, 2017, 10:31:33 PM
Hi omiadhi,
if you decide you like the UC100, and thousands have, just beware that there is a whole bunch of cheap Chinese knock offs on Ebay
at the moment, best buy direct from CNCDrive or their US distributor.

Craig

I'll second that. The arduino/ramps setup that my first 3dprinter used was made from cheap chinese knockoffs. Their components often do not have the same load ratings or tolerances of the real deal.
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: joeaverage on September 28, 2017, 11:16:00 PM
Hi,
even worse, as this guy found looks like it upsets maybe a registry entry now he can't even install Mach fresh
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,35683.0.html (http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,35683.0.html)

Craig
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: omiadhi on September 29, 2017, 12:10:44 AM
Thank you  for your support  Craig 
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: consaka on September 29, 2017, 02:59:52 AM
Hi,
even worse, as this guy found looks like it upsets maybe a registry entry now he can't even install Mach fresh
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,35683.0.html (http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,35683.0.html)

Craig

Meh until this problem is solved we really have no idea the relationship between his problem and the cheap knockoff. It could just as well be an improper/screwed up uninstall of mach software. It could potentially be caused by some other malware as well.  I recently fixed an odd obscure and unrelated problem on a PC that was malware related. When using a headset with mic the mic would keep muting itself. All because of some idiotic embedded malware.

The Hungarian Chinese:) don't have anything to gain by causing issues to PC's that use their products. In fact the opposite is true and though it might not seem like it they do test their software, hardware, and drivers to make sure they work on the machines they want them to work on. Not saying they are perfect but seen lots of software run flawlessly out of China but if ever there is a hiccup they get slammed harder then anyone else and everyone else has had hiccups too.
Just saying, usually its the hardware. Got stacks of chinese hardware, most from other people who I have installed for or repaired their video networks.
You got to give them some credit. Their are about as capitalistic as they can get. If they see a product priced so high it keeps the majority of people out of the game they ask themselves what it really costs to make that product.  The result is that China production is now some of the biggest in the world. Multi millionaires are being made over there pretty fast these days.  Most people 40 years ago couldn't even think about affording security cameras as those systems were $1,000's of dollars. Now you can get more then two for just a few hundred bucks. Now lots of people are buying cheap cameras that otherwise wouldn't. Sure they only last a few years but consumers don't seem to care about that. More work for me so why should I complain? Hehehe.
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: joeaverage on September 29, 2017, 03:00:32 AM
Hi omiadhi,
your welcome, people answered all sorts of questions for me when I started...seems like the right thing to do to help someone else.

Sounds like your dead set on Windows 10 and therefore need an external controller. I don't recommend Chinese ones, any quick scan of the posts
in the forum will tell you most really really struggle to get them to work.

The cheapest and simplest are the UC100 and its look-a-like competitors the PMDX-411 and PoKeys 57CNCd25 are all good and the respective manufacturers
are very good about support but they only have 'one ports worth' of IO. They  very conveniently have a db25 output plug which is pinned indentically to Machs
parallel port and plugs straight into any number of BoBs or drivers. The downside is that they have only one port, so 12 output pins and 5 input pins.
You don't need a very sophisticated machine and  you will run out of input/output pins.

For this reason I recommend you consider the ESS by Warp9, the PMDX-426 or the PoKeys E57 or U57. The ESS has three ports, the PMDX  has two and the
PoKeys boards have 55 IO pins, a bit more than three equivalent ports. They are more expensive but not hugely so and when you need the extra capacity
it'll be there. You may note that I didn't include the U300 and 400 devices by CNCDrive, its not that they're not good, they are, and plenty of ports too, but
they don't have a Mach4 plugin yet. ger21 has informed me that CNCDrive has Mach4 plugins but they're not on their website yet.

This hobby is expensive enuf without buying stuff that doesn't work as well as it should or you have to buy bigger a bit later on....

Craig
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: joeaverage on September 29, 2017, 03:07:53 AM
Hi consaka,
I could put a list together of over 500 posts  on this forum alone from people who cant get their Chinese made gear to work.

I don't care what the Chinese think they are doing but when hundreds....of users are struggling then they can damn well take the criticism.

Craig
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: ger21 on September 29, 2017, 07:45:54 AM
The Mach4 plugins are on CNC Drive's website, under the products that have them. Currently, this is the UC100 and UC300ETH only.
http://www.cncdrive.com/UC300ETH.html
http://www.cncdrive.com/UC100.html

There's a big difference between your average chinese knockoff and a chinese copy of a UC100. The chinese "copies" of the UC100 are entirely different devices. The only similarity s that they both fit in a DB25 shell. The firmware and plugins that enable them to work with Mach3 are completely different as well. There are also UC100 copies that come with different software, and don't work with Mach3.

The vast majority of Chinese Mach3 motion controllers do not support all of Mach3's functionality. You'll also find it's much harder to get help with a chinese board. Many Mach3 users won't offer assistance, as they've spent hours trying to help people, only to find out in the end, that the issue is with the chinese board.
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: joeaverage on September 29, 2017, 09:04:03 AM
Hi Gerry,
kool the last time I looked, about a week ago, I don't recall seeing the Mach4 plugin for the UC300.

Do we have any report from users regarding functionality, ease of use etc?

Quote
Many Mach3 users won't offer assistance, as they've spent hours trying to help people, only to find out in the end, that the issue is with the chinese board.
I am rapidly coming to the conclusion that I should do the same, ie say nothing when someone starts asking about Chinese made boards.
Hard to work out who is being more stupid here, the Chinese companies who knowingly are supplying sub standard gear or idiot buyers who can be sold
on a few lines of bull********* advertising and price.

Craig
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: ger21 on September 29, 2017, 10:46:36 AM

Do we have any report from users regarding functionality, ease of use etc?


I haven't heard from anyone running Mach4 on CNC Drive controllers, though I'm sure they're out there. There's very little Mach4 talk on forums besides this one.
Most everyone I know with a UC300 is using UCCNC now.
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: Dcj on October 18, 2017, 09:39:41 AM
I'm setting up a new machine.  Have mach3, and uc100 (not chinese) through a usb port.  Using windows 10.  First mach 3 start up it asked if I had a motion controller.  I couldn't get any motor jogging after configuring things.  So I uninstalled Mach3 and reinstalled it.  Now I can't get it to ask if I am using a motion controller.  I have even gone into "reset Device selection" to have it ask on the next start up but nothing happens.  Looking at the motion controller use it states that the device is operating correctly.  Not sure what to do. 
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: ger21 on October 18, 2017, 11:45:33 AM
Re-install the UC100 plugin, and remove any other plugins from the Mach3\plugins\ folder.
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: Dcj on October 18, 2017, 12:22:50 PM
Thanks, that took care of that.  This is a new installation and I'm trying to get one motor working first.  After going through the pins and ports and other setup info I don't get any motor movement.  I've checked all the wiring and it seems correct.  Is there a way to make sure I'm sending a signal to the uc100 when I try to jog the motor.  Thanks,
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: joeaverage on October 18, 2017, 01:59:31 PM
Hi,
not as far as I know. The only indicator of activity on the USB link is the LED on the UC100. Of course you can't tell what its sending just that it is.

Craig
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: ger21 on October 18, 2017, 03:14:20 PM
Jog back and forth, and measure the voltage at the direction pin. It should toggle between 0V and 5V, depending on direction. If the blue led on the UC100 is lit, and the DRO's are changing on the screen when you jog, then it should be sending data.

Are your motors locked up?
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: Dcj on October 18, 2017, 04:41:35 PM
I see no power at all on direction pins when jogging.  The blue light is lit on the UC100 and the DRO's are changing.  The motor turns free with the power off but is tight when turned on.  I have no voltage on the PV5V terminals on the ST-V2 breakout board.  Does this power come from the computer.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: ger21 on October 18, 2017, 06:57:13 PM
Do you have the USB cable plugged in to the breakout board?

You need that, and you also need a 12V-24V power supply, or the inputs won't work.
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: Dcj on October 18, 2017, 07:01:14 PM
I have the usb cable plugged into the back of the UC100 and it is plugged into the breakout board.  I also have a 15V power supply plugged into it.  Can I remove the UC100 and check to see if one of the pins is providing the 5V power
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: joeaverage on October 18, 2017, 08:01:33 PM
Hi,
I don't think the UC100 is meant to provide power to your breakout board. Sounds like you need a USB cable from the
PC to the breakout board to provide power to the board AND a 12-24V supply for the board as well.

Craig
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: ger21 on October 18, 2017, 08:03:30 PM
Yes, the breakout board won't work unless you plug the USB cable into it for 5V power.
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: Dcj on October 18, 2017, 08:16:09 PM
Great.  I'll try that in the morning.  Thanks for the help. 
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: Dcj on October 18, 2017, 09:49:16 PM
Plugged in usb from computer to breakout board.  I now have 5 volts on the breakout board and going to the motor driver inputs.  Still no motor activity when I try to jog.  I don't get any voltage on the direction pins on the driver when I try to jog.  I must have this thing really screwed up.  Can you provide any more direction on what I can try.  Thanks
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: joeaverage on October 19, 2017, 03:05:02 AM
Hi,
I believe your breakout board requires TWO power supplies. One you already have in place with the USB from the PC. You require a second
12-24V supply for the opto isolated outputs.

Craig
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: joeaverage on October 19, 2017, 06:02:28 AM
Hi,
I've just re-read the manual, what there is of it, and I think my previous post is wrong. It says the 12-24V supply is optional.
Can you post your xml file, may be we can spot a problem in the setup.

Craig
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: Dcj on October 19, 2017, 06:37:37 AM
As I understand the 12-24V power is required only if you are going to have limit switches and an E stop button.  I have a 15V power supply attached to the board but have not been able to get a signal to Mach3 when I close the one limit switch attached to the board when looking at the inputs screen. 
Not sure what you mean for me to post my xml file.  Is it the Mach 3 setup file?
Thanks
Dale
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: Dcj on October 19, 2017, 07:43:56 AM
If I'm using usb with a UC100 motion controller, do I have to pick a port like when using a parallel port?
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: joeaverage on October 19, 2017, 08:18:54 AM
Hi Dale,
even if you don't want limit switches you will still need an Estop therefore the 12-24V supply is required.

Pick port 1 although the UC100 makes the selection a moot point.

Yes, an .xml file is all the Mach setup data. On the lower right of the Mach screen is the current profile name.
Find it in your Mach3 folder and make a copy name dale.xml. Post the copy.

Craig
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: ger21 on October 19, 2017, 08:33:27 AM
You need to assign port 1 when setting up the pin numbers, for all of your inputs and outputs.
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: Dcj on October 19, 2017, 10:00:59 AM
Putting in port 1 solved the problem.  Motor running fine.  I'm going to hook up the other motors and switches.  Thanks for all the help.  This forum is great.  Dale
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: sparky03 on November 18, 2017, 07:29:28 PM
Are we ever going to have a version of Mach that joins the rest of us in the 21 century?
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: ger21 on November 18, 2017, 07:48:41 PM
If you want to use a printer port with Windows 10, then no.
Otherwise, Mach3 and Mach4 run fine in Windows 10.

Keep in mind that development of Mach3 stopped about 5 years ago, so you'll never see another version of it.
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: sparky03 on November 18, 2017, 09:05:33 PM
Will using a USB motion controller for Mach3  work in Windows 10 32 bit or 64 bit?
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: ger21 on November 18, 2017, 09:10:54 PM
If you use a USB or ethernet motion controller from a reputable company, you shouldn't have any issues. My preference is CNC Drive controllers, as they have excellent support, and are constantly updating their firmware.
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: Shoecobbler on November 27, 2017, 07:56:05 PM
I have a Dell Windows XP system that I've used for several years.  I am working on porting the system to Windows 10.  I've put together an Intel i7 NUC computer with 8 GB of RAM and 250 GB of SSD.  With 4 USB out, and no parallel port, of course, I have an ethernet smooth stepper (ESS) on order.  In the meantime, I'm working on controlling the Huanyang VFD for the spindle.  I've got a $7 USB to RS-485 from Amazon, and it communicates well with the VFD over twisted pair.  I downloaded a 32 bit driver for the old system and a 64 bit driver for the new system (NUC).  Both communicate with the VFD.

I have downloaded both the Matty Zee VFD plugin (HuanyangVFD.dll) and the Le Royaume plugin (vfdplugin.dll).  The only one I've been able to load into MACH3 on Windows 10 is the Le Royaume plugin.  The Matty Zee plugin will not load (usual message of defective plugin, following by message, "ignoring plugin.").  I have installed various C++ redistributables on the NUC.  I've had a lot of trouble installing .NET framework 3.5, but I'm not sure if the Matty Zee plugin needs this, or not.  Microsoft has made it difficult to install .NET 3.5, as various auxiliary files are missing, requiring one to use a special tool to build a special CD or file to load from.

I tested both plugins on the old (x86 Dell) system.  I've used the Matty Zee plugin for several years - no issues.  The Le Royaume can be made to run on the old system, but it generates ESTOPs intermittently.  You can run the same part over and over again, with same settings, and sometimes it ESTOPs and other times it does not.

QUESTIONS:
A.  HAS ANYONE GOTTEN MATTY ZEE PLUGIN TO RUN WITH MACH3 (3.043.062) ON WINDOWS 10 ?  IF SO, WHAT FILES (dependencies) ARE THERE (.net, c++ redistributable, ..) ??
B.  DOES ANYONE HAVE A SOLUTION TO THE WILD ESTOPS ON THE Le Royaume PLUG IN ?
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: joeaverage on November 27, 2017, 08:31:01 PM
Hi,
not sure what all those plugins etc are, why bother, Mach3 has Modbus builtin.

http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,35916.0.html (http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,35916.0.html)

Rather longwinded thread but the OP got the job done.

Craig
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: ger21 on November 27, 2017, 09:57:46 PM
Quote
not sure what all those plugins etc are, why bother, Mach3 has Modbus builtin.

Huanyang VFD's use a non standard form of Modbus, so Mach3's Modbus won't work.
Two users wrote plugins to enable Mach3 to control HuanYang VFD's with RS-485.
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: Shoecobbler on November 30, 2017, 09:03:47 AM
This is a follow-up to my previous post on upgrading to an Intel NUC computer from a working system running 32 bit on older Dell.

I had issues loading the Matty Zee plugin, as I could not get .NET Framework 3.5 to load on Windows 10.  I found a solution to that and thought I'd share the HOW TO, as many folks are having this issue in the Microsoft Support Forums.  While there are in principle many ways to load .NET Framework 3.5, they seem to be problematic on the current Windows 10 for several folks.

.NET Framework 3.5 can be useful for this plugin and other older software (perhaps CamBam as well, for example).

Here's what worked for me, to install .NET Framework 3.5 on Windows 10.
1) Plug in USB Windows 10 installation media.  Go to x64 folder and copy folder "sources" to C: drive. 
2) Open a command prompt window with administrator priveleges (right click on Windows icon in lower
left hand corner) - Command Promp (Admin)
3) Type the following command:

dism /online /add-package /packagepath:C:\sources\sxs\microsoft-windows-netfx3-ondemand-package.cab

The copying from D: (USB drive) to C: drive may not be necessary, but I'm documenting what was known to work.

NOW ==> I can load the Matty Zee HuanyangVFD.dll in MACH3

For me, this means I can bring up the new system with most things the same, except for the Ethernet Smooth Stepper.  I have the plugin RS-485 device now working on both computer.  SO, I should be able to unplug the old Dell system and plug the  new one in for testing.  If I have to make parts, and the new system is having issues, I can replug the old computer.

When I'm done with this conversion, I'll post the details of all the steps I had to take to get the conversion done.
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: Shoecobbler on December 10, 2017, 09:36:55 AM
I have been able to bring up my new system with Windows 10 on Intel NUC i7 Computer.  I'm going to document this migration in case others may find something in there of use.

OLD SYSTEM: Made in 2012, from Chinese hardware and US based electronics by a friend of mine. 
    Gecko 540, Huanyang HY02D223B (2.2 kw) coupled to 1.5 kw spindle, Matty Zee VFD plugin for VFD control, Dell XP Pentium 4 using parallel port and serial to RS-485 for VFD control, iMACH3 Pendant
    Dell Pentium and ELO touch display.

NEW SYSTEM:  Re uses the Gecko and Huanyang, and all motors and mechanics and iMACH3 Pendant.  New computer is Intel NUC i7, with 250 GB of SSD, 8 GB of RAM, and is running Windows PRO (bought on
   thumb drive).  An ASUS VT207N touch display was added to replace the old ELO display. 
       Additional parts:
       1. Warp9 Ethernet Smooth Stepper (ESS) integrated into a box by CNC4PC, along with their C69 PWM board (not used; I didn't order this).  Use Port 1 (Ports 2 and 3 have additional
          capability not needed).
       2. USB to RS-485 converter JBtek converter ($6.99 on Amazon)
       3. A USB hub, with 4 additional outlets.  I plug all the user I/O into this hub: Mouse/Keyboard USB, Pendant, Touch Screen, and any USB for file transfer.

Both systems are wired 240V.  All the wall transformers, etc, work 100-240VAC.

I documented all of my steps, which is in the attached TEXT file.  The Warp9 site is very useful in terms of it's detail  I basically had the whole set up ready for MACH3 by the time the ESS arrived.  Most parts were gotten on Amazon, and they arrive
quickly.

I used the old system to make a wooden shelf, that had features to hold the NUC computer, USB Hub, and the ESS on the old system.  The machine had a set of rails to slide the Dell computer in.  This
wooden shelf could slide in on the same rails, and then the power, USB to RS-485 and parallel cable to Gecko simply plug in.

WHAT WENT WRONG - actually not much.  Here were the sticking points.
    1. I had trouble getting the Matty Zee plugin to load with MACH3 on the NUC Windows 10 at first.  Simply because I neglected to load .NET FRamework 3.5 onto the computer first.  Loading .NET Framework 3.5 was sticky only because I had disabled
       windows update service.  I found a way (see my earlier post) to do this with Windows Update shut down.  Easiest way is to load .NET 3.5 before you shut down Windows Update.  Minor problem in hind sight.  I've been told that Windows Update
       perhaps can't be shutdown with the Home Edition - - I chose Windows 10 Pro, so I can't comment accurately on that.
    2. The ESS in a box is pretty cool, but you have to take covers off to see the LED status when first getting it to talk to MACH3.  Take covers off, get communications going, and screw them back on.
    3. This was the most difficult, though not bad.  When I got everything installed, I could not get ESTOP to reset and motors were not powered.  I had set up the ESS to deliver a charge pump signal to the Gecko 540.  However, apparently the 540 was
        not getting a signal.  SO, in reading the Warp9 documentation, I decided to switch off the charge pump option on the 540 (a small switch for this). PRESTO ! all is good.
    4. It seems to be running really good, but I don't have many "miles" on it yet.  I used defaults for some of the dynamic settings, so some tuning might be possible, but not sure how much better it would get.

See the attached file for my step by step path.  In some cases there is a bit of detail.  In others, it is more of a summary of that step.
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: cj7hawk on March 30, 2018, 10:41:16 PM
I didn't realize Win10 was such an issue - I bought my CNC machine (early 6040) around 10years ago, saw the parallel port and "no laptops" restriction and left it as a shed ornament since then...  Only pulled it out a week ago and figured it was time to replace the parallel port with a cheap USB controller and start using it or sell it for scrap.

Anyway, the software runs OK on Windows 10, and I didn't want to be stuck with Windows 7, and I needed to do it all on the cheap since I'm just new to the software ( A couple of days experience ).

So, this worked for me and was cheap...

I'm using a $21 "RNR ECO Motion" card off Ebay ( cheapest USB breakout board I've found for Mach3 ) - and I'm only using 3 axis. They support 4 axis, but my controller box only has 3 Servo Outputs ( though I am adding a fourth, though only god knows what I might ever do with it... Still, $6 for the fourth stepper channel seemed cheap ).  I've noticed there are dozens of sellers with these cheap USB RNR ECO Motion cards... Most seem to have BITSENSOR.COM and an eagle on them. Some say SAINSMART. I suspect one of them is a clone.  But they connect straight up to Mach3 under Windows 10, with USB, and work great.

Mind you, they use an ARM 32F103 processor for the USB and they don't always like Win10 out of the box, but it's easy to get Win10 working with that series of chip, since most quadcopter drones all use them to talk to Windows 10 so they are well supported.

It plugs in, drivers come with it, the all work OK.  All inputs tested and working. Output 1 was tested ( just turned spindle on, voltage appeared... Seems to work ) so I assume the other 3 work also.

I had to reverse engineer it for the MPG attachment, but added a $20 MPG wheel and two $3 4-way switches so I can select axis and multiplier then stuck the wheel and the switches on my control box front panel.

Probe works very well. I'm cutting copper on PCBs so needs to be very accurate since the copper is warped and I'm using auto-leveling. Just an input and a set of alligator clips, and it finds the surface of the board very quickly and adjusts the Gcode.

Just working on connecting up the brushless spindle control today, and if that works, then it's been a good day and I have it all connected. It's taking me a little while, because I have less than 10 hours on Mach3 since I started, and CNC is new to me... So if I use a term incorrectly, please forgive the mistake - I'm just a newbie.

So far it works well on my Win10 PC, and I'm planning on using a laptop or a Win10 cheap tablet later to control it. The learning curve with Win10 and USB breakouts and Mach3 is pretty steep, especially as I have no prior experience, but the printed circuit boards seem to be milling (engraving?) well so far, so it certainly appears to be working.

Still, I noticed no one else mentioned these cards, so was there any reason no one seems to be using the cheap $21 cards with Mach3? Is it because they are only 100Khz? ( Everyone seems to be looking for 200 KHz models )

David
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: joeaverage on March 31, 2018, 12:13:00 AM
Hi,

Quote
Still, I noticed no one else mentioned these cards, so was there any reason no one seems to be using the cheap $21 cards with Mach3? Is it because they are only 100Khz? ( Everyone seems to be looking for 200 KHz models )

No, because most of the time they don't work, the manufacturer/supplier wont respond to requests for back-up, and seldom do these cheap boards offer features like probing, auto-squaring, THC, lathe threading or backlash compensation.

If you spend a few hours reading posts on the forum you will discover that there are many hundreds of post along the lines: 'controller doesn't work....no response to email...no documentation....no plugin download'.

Craig
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: joeaverage on March 31, 2018, 12:20:17 AM
Hi,
by the way 100kHz is not too shabby, standard Mach3 parallel port is 25kHz and yet plenty of good results can be had with that.

Higher pulse frequencies come into play when you start using high resolution encoders at high speed as found on all current AC servos. With electronic gearing you can still get good results with
100kHz but you can get better resolution and/or speed with 200kHz or better yet with 500kHz which is the common maximum differential signaling rate for AC servos.

Craig
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: cj7hawk on March 31, 2018, 12:50:06 AM
If you spend a few hours reading posts on the forum you will discover that there are many hundreds of post along the lines: 'controller doesn't work....no response to email...no documentation....no plugin download'.

I did... On this forum and every other forum I could find. If the steep learning curve of Mach3 isn't enough to deal with, figuring out the hardware at the same time makes it more challenging than a jigsaw puzzle :(

But youtube videos helped a lot.

I started with a Novusun NVUM-SP and that was a waste of money. I got a partial refund, but the drivers are a mess. I did manage to get the servo pulses and direction working out of it in the end though under Mach3, but inputs failed. No drivers, no support. It was a loss of a few hours...

So I asked the seller next if their USB card was guaranteed to work with Mach3, and the next seller said he would guarantee the drivers were good for Mach3 ( the RNR model ) and they went straight in and were recognized immediately and showed up on the screen. I had no idea what the pinout labels meant, so more Youtube and Google, and got the stepper controllers working. Then I added a probe and just continued... Pinouts for the MPG were a challenge since they weren't mentioned in the manual and are not labelled. I did figure them out in the end though -

For what it's worth, they are;

Pin - Function.
1. VCC +5v
2. Gnd
3. Select X
4. Select Y
5. A
6. B
7. Select Z
8. Select A
9. x100
10. x10

Though they can all be used as generic low-voltage inputs with switches or open collector outputs too. Pin 1 is the closest one to the motor outputs.

Then I 3D printed a bracket so it would fit in the original box where the PP card was installed, and put in some banana sockets for Probe and another input into the spare space.

I also pulled out the spindle. It was connected directly to mains via a light dimmer style circuit ( As me how I figured that *%&$&%^$%^ out.... Ouch ). I hate unprotected mains power, so I decided to get a 400W brushless and a 48v PSU separately. I'll have to run that externally, but the connector hasn't arrived, so I've just poked some sockets through the hole where the spindle output went.  Later I'll put in a digital and manual control setup and put that on the front panel too.

The company that makes them seems to be working on a Mach4 version with an additional 8 or so inputs...  Would be nice. But I can't read Chinese so I can't order one, but they cost about $50.  If I can figure out how to get my wireless pendant to work with Mach4, I might even try getting that one and give Mach4 a go...

I'm pretty good with electronics and 3D printing, but Mach3 has been a real challenge to me. So much to learn....

Thanks for the explanation about the KHz needed. That might explain why I don't get straight lines anymore when I keep pushing up the acceleration and deceleration speed settings to make it go faster.

David

edit: added a picture of the install. There's nothing where the spindle controller was - since I'm still wiring up the external controller and PSU.

(http://aunv.blackice.com.au/userfiles/david-Installed_Controller_Board-1_-_Copy.jpg)
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: joeaverage on March 31, 2018, 01:45:39 AM
Hi,

Quote
The company that makes them seems to be working on a Mach4 version with an additional 8 or so inputs...  Would be nice. But I can't read Chinese so I can't order one, but they cost about $50.  If I can figure out how to get my wireless pendant to work with Mach4, I might even try getting that one and give Mach4 a go...

I think you are buying yourself some trouble. I've heard of one Chinese company producing Mach4 ready gear:

http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,36023.0.html (http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,36023.0.html)

Craig
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: cj7hawk on March 31, 2018, 01:58:09 AM
I think you are buying yourself some trouble. I've heard of one Chinese company producing Mach4 ready gear:

I take it back already... Managed to get a translation of the page and it was Mach3,4 Axis, not Mach4.... They don't seem to have a Mach4 version at all.

And it was Ethernet, not USB.

So it looks like I'll be staying with Win10/USB/Mach3 for a while.
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: joeaverage on March 31, 2018, 02:17:17 AM
Hi,
there are some perfectly good Mach4 external motion controllers both USB and Ethernet but aside from the dubious offering from XHC no Chinese made ones.

Mach4 will cost you $200USD, do you really think that it makes sense to but the cheapest possible controller and thereby limit the utility of Mach4 and that investment?
Do yourself a favour, if you are considering Mach4 get a controller that works with good documentation and manufacturers support. The Mach4 hurdle is entirely hard enough
without trying to run it on s*********t hardware.

Craig
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: cj7hawk on March 31, 2018, 02:42:49 AM
Mach4 will cost you $200USD, do you really think that it makes sense to but the cheapest possible controller

Yes... This makes a LOT of sense to find a cheap controller. Otherwise only people with large applications who can afford to change out all their hardware will move to Mach4, and no one else will even try it. There is no legacy support for it, and while there's not a lot else I found in the same space, there are up-and-coming applications that are moving into this area, along with dedicated hardware.

And it's not $200 for Mach4. It's $2000... That's what Mach4 costs. $200 is for the Hobby Edition, and very few hobby-use-only people who need a CNC machine are going to pay thousands of dollars for one even with the hobby edition.

At a time where most people's use of CNC machines should cost around $400 all up, Mach4 risks making itself irrelevant instead of the defacto standard.

Mach3 was designed to work with a parallel port and drive everything directly. It can be improved to USB for $25 or less and work with Windows 10.  Is a $400 investment in hardware really going to make much of a difference in the output of my work? Mach3 and a breakout board cost less than $200 together. Low-end stepper controllers work OK for less than $10 each.

Anyway, I'm not too worried. If there's a market for Chinese USB or Ethernet Mach4 breakout boards, then they will appear on the market and work just as well as anything else - :) And if they don't appear, then it's only a reflection on Mach4 and it's failure to penetrate the market.

David
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: joeaverage on March 31, 2018, 03:12:05 AM
Hi,
I am a hobbyist and paid $200USD for Mach4Hobby, $180USD for a Warp9 EthernetSmoothstepper and $100USD for two Homan Designs BoBs and have a CNC solution a
quantum leap forward on Mach3. Certainly the Industrial version would be nice although it doesn't really add anything useful that you can't do with the Hobby version.

At this point in time there are no external motion controllers that work with Mach4 for under $100 unless they be knockoffs of boards that do work. The time investment
in the plugin particularly leads me to believe that no manufacturer will be selling any useful Mach4 solutions cheaply anytime soon.

Craig
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: joeaverage on March 31, 2018, 03:16:25 AM
Hi,
actually I've just remembered that PoKeys do a couple of boards for under $100USD that will work with Mach4 but there have some limitations that are addressed by their 57CNC board
which is fully capable but over $100USD.

Craig
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: cj7hawk on March 31, 2018, 05:14:30 AM
Hi,
actually I've just remembered that PoKeys do a couple of boards for under $100USD that will work with Mach4 but there have some limitations.

I found it quite interesting. Looks like the biggest issues there are possibly unbuffered outputs and a lack of optoisolation in the inputs and outputs.

Still, you're right - looks like it would make a suitable base for low-cost experimentation and playing with Mach4 to see how it goes.

David
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: joeaverage on March 31, 2018, 05:45:00 AM
Hi,
the PoKeys 57E and 57U have somewhat fewer output suitable for step/direction and somewhat lower maximum pulse rate than the expanded version the 57CNC. But yes you are right they do make for a
relatively low cost foray into Mach4. Having said that they are still 1/2 to 2/3 of the price of the 57CNC and I think you would be disappointed if you economized only to find six months down the track wishing
you'd spent the extra to get the real deal.

Given that you are happy with Mach3 and there are plenty of low cost hardware solutions for Mach3 then why bother. The main strength of Mach4 is that it is so readily customized IF you are prepared to
program it which is especially desirable for OEMs. If you want to participate there is Mach4Hobby.

Craig
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: ger21 on March 31, 2018, 10:48:22 AM

And it's not $200 for Mach4. It's $2000... That's what Mach4 costs. $200 is for the Hobby Edition, and very few hobby-use-only people who need a CNC machine are going to pay thousands of dollars for one even with the hobby edition.


The Mach4 hobby license is basically the same as the Mach3 license. Artsoft has pointed this out numerous times on the forums, but for whatever reason, they refuse to clarify their website. You only need the Industrial version if you want the Macro B feature, and phone support.

Quote
At a time where most people's use of CNC machines should cost around $400 all up, Mach4 risks making itself irrelevant instead of the defacto standard.

While there are plenty of cheap machines and controls available today to make the $400 machine a reality, there are also more people than ever willing to spend a lot more for a high quality machine control.

Artsoft has made many decisions to make sure that Mach4 will never be anywhere near as popular as Mach4, but price isn't one of them.
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: cj7hawk on March 31, 2018, 11:25:53 AM
Artsoft has made many decisions to make sure that Mach4 will never be anywhere near as popular as Mach4, but price isn't one of them.

I'd be quite happy just being able to try the hobby version out, but even that is not possible without a significant investment. I'd love to hear more, but I guess that would go offtopic.

In the mean time, I'm starting to get good results out of Mach3 and what I've put together on a shoestring budget and it works under Windows 10, so I guess I can't really complain :) It's probably worth sticking to it as a long-term strategy, though I'm worried about it's relevance in the future - Is support still planned for the older version, or is all support moving to Mach4?

Thanks
David
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: ger21 on March 31, 2018, 11:28:45 AM
Support and development of Mach3 ended about 5 years ago.

If you want to go off topic, feel free to PM me.
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: cj7hawk on April 02, 2018, 06:36:40 AM
Having finished installing the Mach3 drivers for the RNR Motion card, and tested every aspect of the card now, I thought I'd put in some notes for anyone thinking of this breakout card for Win10 conversion of their mill under Mach3.

This isn't a review. It's just what I learnt from using this card, which seems to offer a cheap alternative to the parallel port as a possible path up to Windows 10.

There are a few cards like this from different manufacturers. All seem to use the same driver for Mach3, and all seem to have similar pinouts. The driver is the RNR Eco Motion v2.0 driver. Some have a few differences, so perhaps there are different drivers also, but generally they seem to be the same from what I could tell. Most sellers seem to include a disk with a copy of the drivers, some chinese manuals and some english manuals, with say different things ( eg, configured completely differently ) however the english drivers and instructions do work.

The card looks like this.

(http://aunv.blackice.com.au/userfiles/david-IMG_20180402_180209_-_Copy.jpg)

That picture shows a few missing components - mainly because I accidentally shorted it to 240vAC due to a faulty spindle driver... And attempted a failed repair, but a different version from a different supplier worked with the same driver and came with new drivers as well.

RNR Motion Cards use a 32F103 processor, which uses a USB interface to connect to the PC. It went straight in on mine, but others might need to adjust their USB settings under Win10.  This wasn't a problem for me, but may require use of Zadig if you have Windows 10 attempt to use the wrong driver, which can happen if you use these chips and is easily and permanently fixed by manually selecting the correct USB Windows driver.

Note: The windows driver and the Mach3 driver are different. The windows driver should automatically work, but can be fixed quickly otherwise.

Once this is installed, copy the correct RNR Motion .DLL driver to the Mach3 plugins and Mach3 instantly recognizes it, and will put up driver card status updates onscreen - Which is probably normal, but I've found several chinese drivers in the past didn't even do this.

Plugin configuration looks like this;

(http://aunv.blackice.com.au/userfiles/david-rnrmotion_config.jpg)

I don't know what Home Setup does yet, or "Rapid Stop" and I haven't tested "MPG-Disable" or Spindle Multi-step Speed or calibration. However the Inputs View does show which inputs are being selected whether they are configured in Mach3 or not, which is useful when troubleshooting.

The card drives 4 axis - and each axis is driven by a push-pull driver, so you can configure as positive or negative into the stepper controller. It's only 5v though, and there's just one 5v output and two ground outputs, so better to drive as positive current loop into the stepper controllers.  There are outputs for Pulse and Direction for each axis.

The MPG input ( i mentioned the pinouts in my previous post ) are all 3.3v pulled-up inputs and the A and B inputs are 5v and require a 5v capable wheel. They are positive A and B inputs. Both will be "low" when on a detent, with each pulsing once per detent rotation. These are NOT buffered and care should be taken to avoid causing damage to the board when wiring these up. They will either be a 10 pin 0.1" pitch header which takes a standard polarized IDC 10way connector, or will be screw terminated.

There are four other inputs which can be set up, and are 24v pulled-up output and should be tied to ground to activate. External supply of 24v is required, though I also tried 5v and it worked just fine, though using the USB ground or 5v supply is not a good idea.

The 24v inputs also drive four outputs and these are mapped to four input pins on Port 3 - in fact all inputs are mapped to Port3 in the order they are displayed ( vertical before horizontal ) in the configuration panel for the controller. Even the A and B pins for the MPG, though these don't have to be set. ONLY the A and B pins don't need to be mapped. They are MPG1 by default. The rest must be manually mapped to whatever application you put them to. The labels are just "suggestions" and it's pretty much up to you what you do with them. If you don't want x10, for example, you could map it to e-stop.

Only the four 24v inputs are opto-isolated. The MPG inputs go straight to the main chip.

The outputs are also mapped directly from Port 3. So Port 3, pin 1 can be an input or an output, but the two operate independently.  Setting the output low doesn't automatically make the input low as well. They are independent although they use a common ground that is independent from the stepper output ground.

The analog output is a 10v output, but in practice I found this changed up to around 9.3 volts depending on the wiring and load placed on it when attached to a brushless controller. There's about 5 or 6 config screens to get this going - they are shown in the english manual and the pictures are correct. Once installed, they can be used. They have a separate ground to the digital inputs and the stepper outputs yet again, and must be supplied 10v and Gnd from the controller. The output can then be fed back into the controller and works well enough. I tested it with a chinese XDJD WS55-220 Brushless spindle controller and the only problem I encountered was that the controller won't start if the voltage moves up slowly - such as in the auto-calibration test. I didn't use positional feedback for the motor - just output and open-loop control.  When the voltage moves up slowly, the controller tries to start the motor, stalls and fails to start it at all. Then nothing happens. Sufficient voltage MUST be sent to the controller to start with - more than 1.5v. Otherwise it will fail everytime. Once Mach3 was configured to 1.5v minimum output, there was no further problem with the analog output running the brushless controller, though I think this was a controller fault and not the control board.

All of these boards seem to cost around $20 to $30 and came with a USB cable and a driver. They use an original USB cable too, in case you want a longer one, which you probably will.

I hope this helps anyone considering using one of these to get around the parallel port limitations in windows 10 to determine if this card meets their requirements. In my opinion, it's greatest weakness is that it only has four generic buffered inputs, and it's biggest strength is that it's cheap and works well, with drivers, manual and even english instructions supplied - or at least they should be.

David.
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: khomouda on May 08, 2018, 04:17:47 AM
Hey sir. i am trying to get my 600w spindle to work, but i can't seem to figure it out, would you kindly help me. i dont have a VFD, just a motor PWM driver and a relay in the middle. I need to do PWM. I tried the AVI (supposedly the 0-10v), and output1 (supposedly on/off)
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: cj7hawk on May 08, 2018, 05:49:25 AM
Do you have the board pictured in the post I made? If so, you need to supply 10v into the 10v pin, and GND into the GND pin. You then get a 10v signal out, which will drive the spindle motor from the AVI output. It is PWM, but it does do 0v to 10v. But you need to supply 10v to the 10v input. AVI and AGND are on one row of pins, and 10v is on the other, but they are all next to each other.

What spindle controller do you have? Some have a 10v output, and others do not. If it doesn't, you'll need an external PSU. A $5 buck converter will take 24v from your stepper supply and give you a clean 10v output which can be used.

Let me know a little more and I'll go through it step by step. You set up Mach3 like this.

(http://aunv.blackice.com.au/userfiles/david-Mach3_setup_snapshots_003.jpg)
(http://aunv.blackice.com.au/userfiles/david-Mach3_setup_snapshots_008.jpg)
(http://aunv.blackice.com.au/userfiles/david-Mach3_setup_snapshots_015.jpg)
(http://aunv.blackice.com.au/userfiles/david-Mach3_setup_snapshots_016.jpg)

Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: khomouda on May 08, 2018, 07:14:54 AM
thanks sir, appreciate your answer. I will do that, and report.
my PWM driver is
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Motor-Speed-Driver-Controller-MACH3-Spindle-Governor/32253250971.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.hR8ACc
and this is my spindle
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/DIY-engraving-machine-CNC-small-spindle-ER11-DC-500W-spindle-motor-C00003/32810472367.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.xPwhfl
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: khomouda on May 08, 2018, 07:45:28 AM
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Pz_J3lN6rzcu1wAyWTBhY4WOVbChUZio
but I cant get 10v at AVI
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: cj7hawk on May 08, 2018, 08:32:43 AM
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Pz_J3lN6rzcu1wAyWTBhY4WOVbChUZio
but I cant get 10v at AVI

I assume that voltage says "10v" - so that's right.

You need to add some throttle to get 10v at AVI...

If you set it up like I said, then click "reset" to enable Mach3... Then click "Spindle CW F5" button on spindle speed, then click in spindle speed and type 12000 and press enter. That should enable the spindle manually, and put 10v out on AVI... Well, 9.5 or something close.

You can also go Function, Calibrate Spindle, Autocal, And as the control ratio increases to 1, you should see the voltage go up over time ( as another test ).

OK, so now how to wire up...

Well, the PWM square wave would be present on the board opto that leads to the AVI circuit, so you could modify the breakout board to reroute that to AVI if you wanted, but put a multimeter across the pot that comes with the spindle driver... Is it 10v? If that's so, then you have all three wires you need on the pot circuit, just run 10v to 10v, the GND side to ACM and the middle leg of the pot is what will go to AVI. Then you don't need an external 10v supply if that's the case.

If that doesn't work and you want to break out the PCM output, I can put up a drawing showing you where to get it from if you like?

David
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: cj7hawk on May 08, 2018, 08:59:55 AM

Actually, I need to correct that - the AVI output is a 1KHz PWM output, so it shows as a voltage to a multimeter, and a PWM output to an oscilloscope... So you can use the AVI output as PWM, however it doesn't have much power, so if it doesn't work then you'll either need to add a transistor external to the board to increase the pull-down current and use this as the -ve input with +ve going to the 10v supply...

Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: khomouda on May 08, 2018, 09:56:38 AM
Perfectly clear (the second post), when I go home, I will try it, but I need the transistor that you mentioned name, and a small schematic,,,, would be wonderful.
I am a hobbyist and know little about electronics, but I have an oscilloscope and can use it
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: cj7hawk on May 08, 2018, 10:12:12 AM

The output is basically 10v - 0.6v for the emitter-follows-base circuit post-opto, but there's a 1.5K current limiting resistor on the output.

So at 10v, that's about 6.6mA

That should be enough to drive an opto on your spindle board, but if it's not, then you need a small darlington drive transistor, such as a BD682 ( PNP ). Connect Ground to the -ve input for PCM on your spindle board, and connect 10v to the collector of the transistor. Connect the output of AVI to the base, and the collector goes to +ve input on your spindle board.

This makes a non-inverting amplifier for the output and while it loses a little voltage, should have enough power to drive the opto input of your spindle board.

Assuming it has an opto input. But it's up to 12v, so it probably does.  If you want to be lazy, and your inputs are sensitive enough, you can even run a link from 5v to 10v and run the PWM input off of 5v instead.

Anyway, experiment before you go sticking in a transistor... And remember if you want to see a PWM output, don't select 100% speed or 0% speed, as these are DC levels. Finally, my setup was for 12000 RPM, and I don't know what yours is, so you might need to change it.

David
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: khomouda on May 09, 2018, 03:57:33 AM
Dear David, this is what I am getting from the AVI without any mod
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: cj7hawk on May 09, 2018, 04:07:36 AM
Dear David, this is what I am getting from the AVI without any mod

That looks like what I'd expect - Looks to be around 44% of your maximum speed setting. Run that into the +ve input for the PWM and run the ACM ground into the negative input for the PWM.

If you move the slider on the Mach3 spindle speed control, the PWM duty cycle should change and get more or less positive.

Keep in mind you can't use that and the potentiometer at the same time - the jumper on the board selects which one you are using. If the pot is working, then the PWM is not - Let me know if it controls the motor speed OK.

David.
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: khomouda on May 09, 2018, 07:30:21 AM
the CNC is already working with GRBL. but will convert to Mach, I will report back.... thanks a million
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: pauleiras on June 16, 2018, 04:19:49 PM
Having finished installing the Mach3 drivers for the RNR Motion card, and tested every aspect of the card now, I thought I'd put in some notes for anyone thinking of this breakout card for Win10 conversion of their mill under Mach3.

This isn't a review. It's just what I learnt from using this card, which seems to offer a cheap alternative to the parallel port as a possible path up to Windows 10.

There are a few cards like this from different manufacturers. All seem to use the same driver for Mach3, and all seem to have similar pinouts. The driver is the RNR Eco Motion v2.0 driver. Some have a few differences, so perhaps there are different drivers also, but generally they seem to be the same from what I could tell. Most sellers seem to include a disk with a copy of the drivers, some chinese manuals and some english manuals, with say different things ( eg, configured completely differently ) however the english drivers and instructions do work.

The card looks like this.

(http://aunv.blackice.com.au/userfiles/david-IMG_20180402_180209_-_Copy.jpg)


I hope this helps anyone considering using one of these to get around the parallel port limitations in windows 10 to determine if this card meets their requirements. In my opinion, it's greatest weakness is that it only has four generic buffered inputs, and it's biggest strength is that it's cheap and works well, with drivers, manual and even english instructions supplied - or at least they should be.

David.


Greetings everyone!

I am Brazilian and I do not know how to speak English, I am using online translation, I apologize for my bad English.

I have exactly this same board, 30 days ago I installed in my note book the Mach3 version 3.043.066 and used the USB port normally, I just had to make the program run in compatibility mode Windows XP SP3, then my note book had the following configuration: windows 10 home single language updated in version 1709.

The problem came after my windows 10 upgraded from the 1803 version. This occurred on July 14, 2018.

Does anyone know how to solve this problem without having to go back to the 1709 update?
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: khomouda on June 16, 2018, 06:11:28 PM
Install this patch to make the mach3 work on this version
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: pauleiras on June 17, 2018, 04:44:52 PM
Install this patch to make the mach3 work on this version

Thank you
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: hautamak on May 01, 2019, 10:47:38 AM
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Pz_J3lN6rzcu1wAyWTBhY4WOVbChUZio
but I cant get 10v at AVI

I assume that voltage says "10v" - so that's right.

You need to add some throttle to get 10v at AVI...

If you set it up like I said, then click "reset" to enable Mach3... Then click "Spindle CW F5" button on spindle speed, then click in spindle speed and type 12000 and press enter. That should enable the spindle manually, and put 10v out on AVI... Well, 9.5 or something close.

You can also go Function, Calibrate Spindle, Autocal, And as the control ratio increases to 1, you should see the voltage go up over time ( as another test ).

OK, so now how to wire up...

Well, the PWM square wave would be present on the board opto that leads to the AVI circuit, so you could modify the breakout board to reroute that to AVI if you wanted, but put a multimeter across the pot that comes with the spindle driver... Is it 10v? If that's so, then you have all three wires you need on the pot circuit, just run 10v to 10v, the GND side to ACM and the middle leg of the pot is what will go to AVI. Then you don't need an external 10v supply if that's the case.

If that doesn't work and you want to break out the PCM output, I can put up a drawing showing you where to get it from if you like?

David

Hi! I have same board but when i connect wires as abowe the spindle always is spinning. When I turn on spindle it shuts off. With GND and 10V opposed it wont work.

I have this spindle https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/Ow4AAOSwuqdaqmDX/s-l640.jpg
Title: Re: Mach3 under win10
Post by: zappafan1a on August 03, 2019, 04:47:47 PM
Will work mach3 under windows 10 if i update from windows 7 ?
You're using Win10? I guess you don't value your privacy. You really think they gave it away for nothing?