Machsupport Forum
Tangent Corner => Tangent Corner => Topic started by: Tweakie.CNC on June 07, 2013, 05:11:43 AM
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For those wishing to CNC reproduce photographic type images on wood (without the use of a laser) you may find this interesting. http://hobbycncart.com/forum/46-234-1
You may need to use Google Translate but the thread has links to a couple of Russian videos showing just how simply it can be done.
To enable this method, Zoli (one of the forum members) has written a beta program ‘G-ray’ which produces Mach3 compatible GCode which varies the axis feed-rate in accordance with the image pixel value and there is a download link for any that may be interested.
I think this should be regarded as a development project but for those who like to experiment it certainly has possibilities.
Tweakie.
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Looks cool but could not figure out how to download the file from the site.
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Hi Craig,
I am not sure if I am allowed to do this but I have attached the file (it will get deleted if I am in the wrong).
Tweakie.
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Thanks Tweak
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Thought you were the Moderator (King) you could do anything, lol ;)
Thanks again, interesting possibilities.
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Thanks Craig. ;D ;D ;D
Zoli tells me that his software still needs a lot of improvement but I am certain he will get there.
He now has a nice CNC pyrography set-up and is making excellent progress with his work. This thread relates http://hobbycncart.com/forum/46-234-1 so it may be worth checking back there, from time to time (for future software updates), as more is learnt about the process.
I did convert a G-ray generated tool-path for use with my laser, mainly as a 'proof of concept'. The initial test results were not outstanding (lots more practice on my part required) but I think it shows the possibilities of using variable feed-rate. (I adjusted my laser power output a couple of times during the run which perhaps spoiled the result).
(For those looking for a scientific explanation - Newton described the ‘time-lag’ between action and re-action when formulating his third law of motion. This law does not actually apply to the laser beam itself but it does apply to the effect caused by the beam and I like to think of it as ‘latency’.
Wood, like all materials, has ‘latency’ so slowly creating a heat spot on the surface of a piece of wood produces a greater shade of burn than quickly creating exactly the same calorific value of heat spot – likewise, the speed at which a heat source is moved over the surface of a piece of wood will determine the shade of burn).
Tweakie.
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Very Neat Tweakie. Do you have a link to the video? I did go to their forum but didn't have time to translate. Beta or not, shes still pretty! ;D
Brett
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Hi Brett,
Here are a couple of the videos :-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usgsfCJf-DA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mfvvavbut8k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRxJUVVWbj8&feature=player_embedded
Tweakie.
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Tweakie, is he heating a tip and varying its output, and timing? If so, is it a contact or non contact tip?
Brett
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Hi Brett,
Yes, Zoli is using a heated wire in contact with the work surface similar to the attached picture.
The wire temperature is a constant, it is only the axis speed that is varied.
Tweakie.
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And I thought I was doing something when I filtered a thermocouple's signal in an Arduino to get a stable reading. :-[ Lots of number crunching going on to pull off what he is doing.......... very nice. I probably couldn't fit some of the formulas from my shoulder to my finger tips........... because that is where I write down the important stuff. Yup, over my head and longer than my arm. If I hadn't got all of our social security numbers tattoed on a few years ago I might still have a shot but I got tired of writing those every few days. Now I don't have to worry about that but it did make my work area considerable shorter. The trade off was worth it though I think. I don't have to spend nearly as much time giving everyone the next to the last 2 digits. I don't know why they need them anyways...... I think they use them to give to their bill collectors because I get all kinds of duns from folks I never herd tell of. ;D
Brett
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Hi Brett,
I know we joked about the chip implants (shortly to become a legal requirement here in the UK for all dogs) but I am sure the day will come when it will apply to humans (sort of living chip'n'pin) ;D
Tweakie.
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As more people are trying this CNC pyro-engraving and experimenting with different heated wire designs, the results are continually improving.
This is one of the latest images to be posted.
Tweakie.
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I am amazed at the progress others are making with this pyrographic process and the results now speak for themselves.
Tweakie.
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I agree Tweakie, as impressed as I was with the first you posted these are much better. Is there any one area you would say that has had the most influence in the improved results? Hardware, software, process, material?
Brett
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Hi Brett,
Yes, I think it is all things equally.
The software has had one or two small changes, voltage and current controlled power unit giving better control of the wire element temperature, shape of the working area (tip) of the wire element together with more flexibility in the high current connection cables (allowing better free vertical movement of the wire element) have all contributed to making the improvements. There is currently a lot of experimentation with different pre-coatings of the wood together with a search for the best type of wood to use.
Overall these guys certainly deserve my congratulations.
Tweakie.
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Just some more pictures of others work which I think deserve being posted here.
Certainly Mach3 operating with variable feed-rate works extremely well once you get the hang of it.
Tweakie.
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Impressive.
Maybe the duck carvers will get treated to a 3D version someday.
RICH
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Maybe the duck carvers will get treated to a 3D version someday.
I am sure it will happen Rich, just a matter of time. ;)
Incidentally, the hybrid (VCarve then laser image) is still in it's early days but it is progressing well. This example is not mine (credit to Jerry) but illustrates the potential.
Tweakie.
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Hi
What is the temperature of the head? What do you think is pyrography tool 10-30w or soldering tool 50-60w suitable for the job?
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for example this kind of toll http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/312087-936-Digital-Electronic-Soldering-Rework-Station-60W-Temperature-Control-/291045808706?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item43c3ae9a42&autorefresh=true sound easy to keep control the quality if the temperature is accurate
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Now Tweakie, the Hybrid is just way too slick. You guys are gonna keep messing around a rip a hole in space or something. I'm pretty sure of that. ;D
Although the depth is obvious in the picture I bet it doesn't do it justice does it?
Brett
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Hi Zsolt,
The temperature is set by 'trial and error', depending on the wood stock, and this in turn is then balanced out with the average feed-rate. It's all very experimental but those that have persevered seem to be finding the right combinations. There are more details of the 'home constructed' current regulator etc. here http://hobbycncart.com/forum/46-234-1 (you may need to use Google Translate).
Tweakie.
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Hi Brett,
The idea of routing a 3D relief then lasering the detail and shading over the top was suggested over 12 months ago but, so far, I have not been able to get it just right.
John’s (PicEngraver) excellent software http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,26003.0.html is well capable of doing the job if only I was more capable at using it. :D
Tweakie.
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Just my little variation on the theme. :D
Low voltage, high current and stainless steel.
Tweakie.
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Tweakie, you sure do keep things interesting. Way to go Tweakie. Brilliant!
Brett
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Very neat, Tweakie. How about a little more info? Voltage, current, tool setup, etc.?
Thanks,
John Champlain
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Thanks guys. At the moment the resultant work is a bit scruffy looking but it can only get better. :)
John, I am still experimenting with this and will provide more detailed info once I get a little further down the road.
The voltage I am using is adjustable between 1.5 and 2.5 volts and as we all know, at low voltage and high current the enemy is electrical resistance – even a fraction of 1 ohm can create substantial heating as well a voltage drop at the work surface – once I have this sorted I expect / hope to get some improved results. I am showing a reasonably steady 0.2 Amps current draw on the 240 Volt input to the transformer but output current has not been measured. Still not sure about electrodes, I am using copper at the moment but plan to try tungsten as well.
Tweakie.
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Thanks Tweakie.
Waiting to see photos done with your process. And in stainless - how unique is that?
John
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Hi Brett,
The idea of routing a 3D relief then lasering the detail and shading over the top was suggested over 12 months ago but, so far, I have not been able to get it just right.
John’s (PicEngraver) excellent software http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,26003.0.html is well capable of doing the job if only I was more capable at using it. :D
Tweakie.
Brett,
not only was it suggested, but done by me 12 months ago using Picengrave Pro 4, but the depth of the relief was limited by my LD's focal point.
http://hobbycncart.com/forum/63-151-15
My limitations on the routing depth of the relief engraving have always been the image to g-code program I use by it not being able to generate a Z axis movement within the same g-code file as the analog modulated laser's power (A axis). If it could, the laser diodes focal point would follow the spindle engravings contours up and down throughout a deeper depth of cut to be able to shade the relief properly.
Jeff
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Jeff,
I hear you loud and clear. ;D
John
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Jeff,
I hear you loud and clear. ;D
John
Haven't I pestered you enough John? ;D ;D
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Pester away, friend. I can take it. ;)
I'm almost through with a test version already. Couple of more days - hopefully.
John
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They look great, I'm wondering if I could use a soldering tool for doing this.
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They look great, I'm wondering if I could use a soldering tool for doing this.
It may not be hot enough but why not just give it a try and see how it goes.
Tweakie.
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After gaining a bit more experience this electro-engraving seems to be quite a useful process.
Tweakie.
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See: http://youtu.be/W1p9oiTdz0A
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When I was a youngster, ( now retired ) there were " wood burning kits" for kids to use. The hot end was VERY similar to a soldering iron. Don't know the wattage, but expect it to have been in the 60 to 75Watt range.
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When I was a youngster, ( now retired ) there were " wood burning kits" for kids to use. The hot end was VERY similar to a soldering iron. Don't know the wattage, but expect it to have been in the 60 to 75Watt range.
Those hand tools are still available and in turn led to homemade versions, the development of the software G-Ray and a great deal of experimentation before producing very acceptable results as shown in this thread. http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.aspx?from=&to=en&a=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.microsofttranslator.com%2Fbv.aspx%3Ffrom%3D%26to%3Den%26a%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fhobbycncart.com%252Fforum%252F46-234-1
Tweakie.
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Hello tweakie, my name is Jose Antonio and I'm from Cuba.
I tried using the g-ray but I have a problem:
I am using for white 1500 mm / min and black 300mm / min but what I print always remains very dark because if it is white every time the speed is updated it seems that the match does not give time to reach that feedrate and it is lost.
For example if I have a line with pixels with the following feedrate sequence: F1100 F900 F1300 F1200 F1225 F1400, in fact what I get from feedrate output does not even reach 400 mm / min because it is as if it took a while to go from 0mm / min at 1100 mm / min. I know it's a problem in the match but I have no idea what it can be. I also have the acceleration of the axes to the maximum to avoid just that but nothing.
If you could help me, I'd really appreciate it.
PD: I've seen your official page and your posts in many cnc forums and your work is great. Congratulations.
Greetings from Cuba.
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Hi,
You could try turning off Constant Velocity and see if that makes any difference.
Alternately there was a Russian software that possibly made a better job than G-Ray, you could try that; https://sites.google.com/site/nikromsoft/home/programmy/drovopal (https://sites.google.com/site/nikromsoft/home/programmy/drovopal) (you may need to use Google or Microsoft Translate).
Tweakie.
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Hello, Tweakie. :D
Thank you very much for answering. I will try to prove what you tell me. The drovopal program had already seen it and it seems great but it is a little complex to use it and configure it because I have no idea of Russian and the translation is not very good.
According to the manual the program generates a Lang.ini file encoded in UTF-8 and can be translated, that would be good but when I create it (in xp because in win10 it gives an error since it can not access that address) the file appears empty and I need it in Russian to put it in the translator since I have no idea how to type in Russian or how is the correct structure of that file.
If you could tell me your experience in pyrography (I do not have laser what I use is a hot resistance).
Thank you.
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Hi,
Sorry but I can't provide much help - I tried hot wire pyrography but did not have any real success with it so went back to laser use.
All I can suggest is that you read through the HobbyCncArt topic, following any links given, and see if it better explains the technique. http://hobbycncart.com/forum/46-234-1 (http://hobbycncart.com/forum/46-234-1)
Tweakie.
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Thank you very much Tweaki, I will continue trying to see what happens.
One question, do you use the method of varying the feedrate also with the laser?
Greetings.
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Hi Jose,
One question, do you use the method of varying the feedrate also with the laser?
For my laser power control I use constant feed-rate and variable PWM.
Tweakie.