Machsupport Forum

Mach Discussion => Mach Screens => JetCam screen designer => Topic started by: ynneb on January 24, 2007, 10:44:01 PM

Title: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: ynneb on January 24, 2007, 10:44:01 PM
I figured we might as well have one place for the requests.
So please fire away with requests.

1) In the past I have asked Art if the z level of pictures could be implemented, and he told me it was impossible, and yet you ( Stan) did it first attempt.
This has given me hope that other things I have requested might also be able to be implemented that have also been deemed as impossible. :)
I suspect Art was busy and that was an easy way out for him :)
We now have flash screens implemented however the draw back is the screen can only be fully flash or fully traditional.
I would like to see the ability for traditional screens to contain smaller swf ( Flash movies)
The advantage with this is we could make up component in flash, and insert them into an existing screen. This means we could build a library of component that the user could use in his /her own screen. Instead of having to design a full flash screen.
Since I know that Mach3 can respond to FS commands, from a flash file, It shouldnt be hard to do. ( Guessing)
Since a browser can also display flash along with other components, I was wondering if the creen couls possibly be like an html page ( Suggestion of a way to achive what I want :) )
The main criteria would be that the background of the flash movie would need to display transparently. I know there is that option when putting a flash ( SWF) into a html page.

Its probably a big ask, and one you may not see why I am asking for. But I can see a big advantage with screen designing, been able to do this.

Have I hurt your head already Stan ? I have been holding off asking for this for quite a while.
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on January 25, 2007, 12:41:53 AM
Benny,


Z Level of pictures
If Art says it can't be done,  then I believe him.
What can and cannot be done depends on the capabilities
of the development environment and how the GUI code
was constructed at the base level.


Flash Screens
I can't really comment on the problem concerning transparency or
why screens have to be fully Flash or fully native.
My experience with Flash programming is nil.
There's not much I can do about either of these as the problems
are in the MACH software.

Best Regards


Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: ynneb on January 25, 2007, 12:59:17 AM
Stan,

No you read it wrong. You did archive z levels of pictures. ( Your program calls it Z order) Same thing.

Oh well, to the other item. But I bet it can be done :) I know of another c++ program that does just that, so I know its not out of the question.

Thanks for considering it though.
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on January 25, 2007, 01:26:28 AM
Benny,


Z-Order
I did understand what you meant about Z-Order.
My point was concerning Z-Order in MACH and not
my screen editor.  So I am now totally confused about
what exactly you are asking me to do concerning this.


Flash
Yes,  I'm sure it can be done.
But I am unclear what you are asking me to do.
The problems you mentioned,  exist in MACH and not
in my editor because I don't support Flash at all at this time.

Best Regards

Stan



Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: ynneb on January 25, 2007, 01:42:34 AM
Thanks Stan.
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: davidimurray on January 31, 2007, 08:49:00 AM
Hi Stan

Brilliant news about your work on a new editor - I am looking forward to using it  ;D

Can I pop another request in here -

Is it possible to create a method that allows buttons to exist on some pages. The traditional designer allows you to use 'display on alll pages'. Would it be possible to have 'display on pages 1,3,4,6,7' etc ??

One other thought - if you have a button running VB script, do you have to edit it within your editor or can you edit it while working in Mach? I do quite a bit of work on wizards and find that I have to tweak a lot.

Cheers

Dave
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on February 01, 2007, 08:29:18 AM
Hi David,

Quote
Is it possible to create a method that allows buttons to exist on some pages.
The traditional designer allows you to use 'display on alll pages'.
Would it be possible to have 'display on pages 1,3,4,6,7' etc ??

This gets a bit tricky when inserting and deleting pages (screens)
because for example,  Page 6 may no longer be page 6 after a page
is inserted.

I'll see what I can do.  I already have provision for global items,
so your request is just an extension of that.


Quote
if you have a button running VB script, do you have to edit it
within your editor or can you edit it while working in Mach?

I cannot speak for the MACH software,  only Art can do that.


Best Regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: davidimurray on February 02, 2007, 10:15:53 AM
Hi Stan

Thanks for the reply. Here's an idea - instead of having a display on screens ********* option. How about having a "copy to screen x" option. Thta way you select the buttons you want then hit the copy to option, enter the page number and it creates exact copies of the originals on the selected screen and in the smae positions as the original. I like to use 'common' toolbars down the sides and across the bottom of screens so being able to easily copy them would be great.

On the VB script front, that is the way the 'traditional' screen designer works. I guess Art must have some way of accessing the code within the screen files - if your screen files could be setup in a similar way to allow this to happen that would be great. It makes VB script developmentrelatively easy. Basically what i am saying is the feature already exists in Mach using 'traditional' screens but not with yours.

Cheers

Dave
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on February 02, 2007, 06:20:25 PM
Hi David,

Replicating Screen Items
Your suggestion is not really necessary to implement because you will be able to
Copy and Paste ANY item(s) between Screens.

This will even work between projects because the Windows clipboard will be used
for this.  So you can open an existing project,  copy some items to the Windows clipboard,
and then paste those items to any other screen project.

Furthermore,  you will be able to do this with ENTIRE screens also.
Meaning that you will be able to copy a whole screen to the windows clipboard
and then paste the screen into either the current project or into another project
as a new screen.

This means that 2 options will be available :
1.  Setting an item to "Global" so it appears on all screens.
2.  Using copy / paste to replicate items to specific screens.

I hope this will satisfy your request.


VB-Script Editing
David,  I think I may have not understood your original question regarding this.

Are you saying that the Mach 3/4 screen editor(s) can execute the VB-Script without
you having to test VB-Scripts in MACH?

Unfortunately,  I have no experience with VB-Script at all.  My editor was not written in
VB,  and I've never used VB myself.  I do understand what VB scripts are,  but I cannot
at this time determine if I can support this request directly inside my editor.

I will however investigate this,  because as a programmer,  I do appreciate the value of
such functionality.  I know,  I would certainly want this myself if I were in your shoes.



Regards

Stan.
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: davidimurray on February 03, 2007, 06:20:21 AM
Hi Stan

Replicating Screen Items

That sounds just great - you the man  ;)

VB Script
Probably easiest to describe the way the system currently works
If you open a screenset in Mach, then go to the operator menu and 'Edit Button Script' any buttons that consist of VB script will then start to flash. If you now click on a flashing button the VB script editor pops up and you can edit the code, save and close it. I've attached a pic that shows what happens when you go to 'Edit Button Script' and click on the (now flashing) Ref All Home button. From memory the VB used by Mach isn't true VB - probably best to talk to Art about that one.

Thanks for all your work on the new editor - I'm looking forward to using it, any ideas when we may get to play with it?

Cheers

Dave
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on February 03, 2007, 08:50:38 AM
Hi David,

Quote
If you open a screenset in Mach, then go to the operator menu and 'Edit Button Script'
any buttons that consist of VB script will then start to flash.

So,  you weren't talking about the Mach Screen Editor (Screen3/4) after all.
Now I'm confused.

Quote
If you now click on a flashing button the VB script editor pops up
and you can edit the code, save and close it.

That should not be a problem.  As long as the VB-Script is inside the Set (or LSet)
file.

Quote
From memory the VB used by Mach isn't true VB


Yes,  I am aware of the difference between VB code and VB Script.

Quote
probably best to talk to Art about that one.

So,  am I to understand that all you want is simply to be able to
edit the VB-Script?  I thought my original editor lets you do this.

In fact I am sure it does.  When selecting a button for example,
the Function properties for the button have an editor for the VB script.
Is this not what you are after?  Or do you need to also
run the VB-Script from inside the editor?
I doubt that would be possble,  but I could be wrong.

Quote
I'm looking forward to using it, any ideas when we may get to play with it?

Well,  I'm still working on the basic editing functionality because most of the editor is being re-built.
As you know,  building screens is quick and simple in my editor.
The new editor will let you do this even quicker and simpler.

I haven't touched the renderer yet,  or the property editor.
I'm sorry for the delay,  but I have a real job too,  which takes up most of my time.

best regards

Stan


Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: davidimurray on February 03, 2007, 12:53:22 PM
Now I think I'm going mad - just tried making a screen in Jetcam and then editing it the script in Mach and it works. I tried previously and it wouldn't work - the only difference is that this is a new computer.

Sorry Stan - seems like I've been leading you up the garden path here !! I think I better get my coat  :P

I know what you mean - work always seems to get in the way!! If you want me to do any testing once your near release just give me a shout.

Cheers

Dave
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on February 03, 2007, 02:05:24 PM
Hi David,

I'm glad you got the problem sorted as I was getting worried.

So does this mean that there is no new functionality required
concerning editing of VB script?

It would be a pleasure to get you an early release.
Stay tuned.

Best regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: davidimurray on February 03, 2007, 03:02:35 PM
Hi Stan

Yup that's right - no new feature required there!! Oops

With all this talk of the new version I got my thinking about an old wizard I had been working on but gave up due to the problems with the traditional Mach screen designer. Just had a quick go at setting it up in Jetcam and noticed a couple of things -

1) I've setup a button over a graphic on the screen, set the transparency to full but it just appears as a grey block on the screen.
2) I've got an LED set to flash red - But it flashes green. Where should the red graphics that jetcam creates be placed?
3) I use loads of userdro's in my wizards. How do I implement these in Jetcam? If I put the DRO number in (e.g. 1001) then the DRO appears and I can enter a value but it resets the value to 0.

Hope you don't mind me asking these questions here but I am currently trying to work with Jetcam so I can find any problems/ improvements that can be made so you don't have to redo too much work later!

Also one other thought - would it be possible to have the DRO formatting codes as a drop down list of formats? e.g. -
0
0.0
0.00
0.000
etc

Save me having to trying to work out what they all are  :P

Cheers

Dave

Cheers

Dave
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on February 03, 2007, 03:52:05 PM
David,

Quote
I've setup a button over a graphic on the screen,
set the transparency to full but it just appears as a grey block on the screen.

Please elaborate.  transparency should be working 100% correctly within the limitations
described in the help file.  Where are you seeing a grey block?  In my editor?
I must admit that I never tried 100% transparency for a button.



Quote
I've got an LED set to flash red - But it flashes green. Where should the red graphics that jetcam creates be placed?

To be honest,  I have no idea.  Led's have always been a bit of a mystery to me.
Art changed the code in MACH a few times,  and maybe he's done it again and
caused a problem,  or my editor is incomplete concerning LEDs.
I will look into this.



Quote
I use loads of userdro's in my wizards.
How do I implement these in Jetcam?

I've never heard of a "user" DRO.
What are they?  How are they different from normal DROs?
Do you perhaps mean the new "sliders" by any chance?
Because if so,  the editor you have does not support them.



Quote
If I put the DRO number in (e.g. 1001) then the DRO appears and
I can enter a value but it resets the value to 0.

What do you mean by DRO number?
If this is a property you are entering, I need to know the
name of the property as displayed in the editor.
Where are you seeing it reset to 0?



Quote
would it be possible to have the DRO formatting codes as a
drop down list of formats?

Absolutely.
Are you talking about the "Format String" property?
Are there any other preset formats you'd like?



When you mention specific properties for components,
please quote them as they appear in my editor,  otherwise
I have trouble sometimes understanding what you are
refering to.

Please forgive my ignorance,  I don't know much about MACH.
My father bought a lathe and a mill,  and asked me to write him
an improved MACH screen editor.  Which I did. 
Now I am going to write a better one.

best regards










Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: davidimurray on February 03, 2007, 06:33:56 PM
No probs Stan - the more we can do now hopefully the less hassle you will have later.

Quote
Please elaborate.  transparency should be working 100% correctly within the limitations
described in the help file.  Where are you seeing a grey block?  In my editor?
I must admit that I never tried 100% transparency for a button.

This may be due to the way I am using the transparency. Basically I am trying to use an 'invisible' button - i.e. a see-through overlay. This may not be the best way to do this, but it is how it was often done in Screen4. I've enclosed some pics of what I am seeing.

Quote
I've never heard of a "user" DRO.
What are they?  How are they different from normal DROs?
Do you perhaps mean the new "sliders" by any chance?
Because if so,  the editor you have does not support them.

In a number of situations it is neccesarry to able to enter values, particulalry wizards etc and this is done by using a User DRO. They exist for DRO's from 1000 to 1254, similarly user LED's also exist from 1000 to 1254. Basically they are unallocated DRO's and LED's that are available for users to use as they want. for example in Screen4, if I want a DRO to behave as a userdro I simply give it the OEM value of 1000 and then I can reference it from within VB Script.

If I set the OEM code in the Jetcam editor to 1000, then load the screen in Mach3 it appears fine. However if I enter a value e.g. 2, then hit enter, the DRO returns to 0, and does not hold the value of 2.

Quote
Absolutely.
Are you talking about the "Format String" property?
Are there any other preset formats you'd like?

Yup - format string is the one. Probably the numeric values up to say 7 decimal places would be useful. Also any way to show whether a leading +, nothing or - should be added -
e.g.
-0
-0.0
0
0.0
+0
+0.0
etc.

Quote
Please forgive my ignorance,  I don't know much about MACH.
My father bought a lathe and a mill,  and asked me to write him
an improved MACH screen editor.  Which I did. 
Now I am going to write a better one.

Don't worry about it - you're doing us a massive favour developing such a great editor and I will do whatever I can to help it progress. I think we could do with a few more opinions here so i will try and rally the troops a bit.

Cheers

Dave
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: Chaoticone on February 03, 2007, 08:19:01 PM
Stan,
   It all sounds great.

Thanks guys for all of the work you are putting into it. I hope to get to play with it to a great extent one day.

Brett
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on February 04, 2007, 08:21:51 AM
Dave,

INVISIBLE BUTTON
What do you mean by "see through overlay" ?
It's very difficult for me to solve a problem unless I
fully understand what you are trying to achieve.
And I still don't understand.

I strongly suspect that you are trying to make it
possible to "click" on an LED,  as if it were a button,
and subsequently you put an invisible button on
top of an LED.

If this is the case,  and it works in MACH when
done using Screen4,  then I'd like to know how that
was achieved so I can support the same functionality.




USER DROs
Ok, I understand now.  That seems to be a bug in the editor
(maybe).  You wont have that problem in the new one.



FORMAT STRINGS
I have no idea what is and is not allowed in a format string.
So I cannot answer your question concerning "+" and "-" signs.

What I am thinking of doing,  is to let the user of the editor
to create their own list of regularly used format strings.
These will be saved and made available in a drop down list
whenever format string needs to be entered.


Best Regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on February 04, 2007, 08:27:53 AM
Dave,

Perhaps I was wrong about you wanting to put a button over an LED.

If you are simply trying to put a button over an image,
you can simply add an image to the button using the
button's Image property.

Then you don't need to use transparency at all.

best regards

Stan.
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: davidimurray on February 04, 2007, 12:47:30 PM
Hi Stan

Quote
If you are simply trying to put a button over an image,
you can simply add an image to the button using the
button's Image property.

Yeah that's what I was trying to do - had the screenset graphics already created. I will re-create them to have seperate image buttons.

Quote
I have no idea what is and is not allowed in a format string.
So I cannot answer your question concerning "+" and "-" signs.

Certainly + is available, takes the format e.g. %+.3f. - doesn't seem to be available but is certainly a valid character.

Oh and while I remember have you had any problems with importing Graphics as background images ? I find that if I import a 1024x768 image onto 1024x768 screen then the bottom of the screen is missing.

Cheers

Dave
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on February 05, 2007, 12:24:51 AM
Dave,

Quote
Oh and while I remember have you had any problems with importing Graphics as background images ?
I find that if I import a 1024x768 image onto 1024x768 screen then the bottom of the screen is missing.


You need to be much more specific than that.  Is this happening in MACH or in the editor?
MACH does some very nasty things regarding screen size and item scaling.  I still need to sort
this out with Art,  but not until this editor is ready to roll.



Preview Mode
I just finished coding the basic preview mode for my new editor.

The editor now has a preview mode,  that lets you better see your screen
as it should look in MACH.  The preview window will automatically size to the
correct screen size.

Additionally,  some items in preview mode will be fully interactive. 
ie Buttons will press,  LEDs will light.  This is will
also work for buttons that are tied to LEDs.



LEDS
The editor will let you use your own bitmaps for these.

Furthermore,  optionally,  the editor will automatically
merge them with the screen background if necessary.
This is very usefull when the LED images you add are non rectangular.



Item Selection
In the existing editor,  you need to completely surround
all items you want to select when selecting multiple items.
You no longer have to do this.

The selection box will now select all items that intersect with the box.
This will make selecting multiple items a lot less hassle on a densly populated screen.



Regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: ynneb on February 05, 2007, 04:39:41 PM
Sounds good Stan.
Thanks for your work. Is it available for downloading, or are you just telling us about your progress ?
I will edit you signature and insert a link to your download section, so that every post you make will display it. I hope that is OK ?

EDIT: Stan You will now notice an earth symbol under your name and a signature under every post you make. These both link back to your download page. This should help people find your screen designer.
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on February 06, 2007, 03:01:39 PM
Hi Benny,

The new version of the editor is NOT yet available.
I am just keeping everyone up to date on what's going into it
and what has already been done in case anyone has further requests
or something to add that might help.


More work done

1.  The new property editor is now in place.
This is no longer a dialog box,  so you can now
edit properties without covering the editing area.

Furthermore,  screen selection is performed with a thumbnail
list (something like Adobe Acrobat has).  The thumbnail panel
can be opened and closed to free up space for screen editing.

The control window,  is no longer a separate window either.
This window can also be opened and closed to free up space for
screen editing.

Some additional work was done to the preview system to handle
both types of LED toggling when buttons are pressed.
  a) Single LED on/off
  b) Single LED on/ Multiple LEDs off
  c)  The buttons will move up and down when you press them.

Later,  I will be trying to emulate screen changes using buttons as
MACH does it for my screen preview mode.



2.  User defined format strings can be created in the setup
and will then be available in a drop down list during editing.
This is followup to request by David Murray.



3.  I think I have fixed a problem related to flashing LEDS.
The documentation I found on the internet concerning the
MACH screen file format appears to be incorrect.



4.  More work done on the rendering engine,  however
the new editor still cannot render all the effects available
in the current editor.  This is ok,  as I intend to replace some
of the effects with better versions.



Screen Resizing
I've been reading some posts in these groups and understand that people are having
problems resizing screens.  Apparently,  an application called "ScreenTweak" can do this,
but there still seem to be problems using that also.  I will be building some similar functionality
into this editor,  so if anyone has any advice or requests,  let me know.


Best Regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: davidimurray on February 06, 2007, 04:54:09 PM
Hi Stan

Sounds like the new screen designer is keeping you out of trouble  :P.

With regard to the screen size issue, it occurs in the editor.

Cheers

Dave
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on February 06, 2007, 05:17:46 PM
Hi David,

I think I need a screen shot from you,  showing the problem.


Additional completed items

Lock Control function is now available as requested by a user.
Effectively,  all controls on the screen can be locked so that they
are not accidently moved when selected.

This helps when you've finished positioning items,  but still need
to setup properties.



Regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: davidimurray on February 07, 2007, 04:45:12 PM
Hi Stan

Thanks for all the updates on how progress is going - it's really wetting my appetite for the new designer and I'm gettin more excited every day  ;)

No probs, I've attached some screenshots below. The background graphic is a 1024x768 Jpeg created in Realdraw.

First image shows a 1024x768 screen set in jetcam, the image display mode is set as normal.
Second image shows a 1024x768 screen set in jetcam, the image display mode is set as aspect stretched.
Final image shows a 1024x850 screen set in jetcam, the image display mode is set to tiled - this is the only way I have found to display the image correctly

Hope that gives you some idea of the problem - notice how the bottom seem to be cut off the graphics.

Cheers

Dave
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on February 07, 2007, 05:39:16 PM
Hi David,

Thank you very much for the screen shots.
I have no idea why the images are being cut off like that.
That's definately a bug.  I must confess,  I never loaded
such a huge image into my editor.

About Bitmaps
Some older computers have limits on bitmap size and what can be done with large bitmaps.
This is a video card and video driver problem and known to many programmers who work with
graphics.  A bitmap might display on one computer properly,  but fail to display correctly on
another computer.

Newer computers,  don't really have this problem except when you start talking about really huge
bitmaps.  To use the editor smoothly,  you should minimize the use of very large bitmap images, as
this will make editing easier.



Some things I should point out about screen design

The editor was not designed to build screens the way you are doing it.
It is however designed to produce the same result as you already have in your image.

Now,  I know the existing editor that you are using doesn't have enough flexibility to create
what you have in your large background image,  but my new editor will have - meaning that
you will not have to work with such huge images again because you'll be constructing
the whole thing in the editor.

You will be able to assign images to buttons - This can be either 1 or 2 images.  In the case
of 2 images,  the second image is used for the button down state.

The same applies to LEDS.  You'll be able to supply separate images for LED on/off state.
This implies also then that your LEDs can be ANY color - hehe,  because you supply the image.
In fact the LED images can be any shape too as long as you adhere to the transparency rules
documented in the help file.

So typically,  the way to design a screen is to supply a background tile.
Supply button and LED bitmaps.
Optionally supply other images for use as panels,  sliders or anything like that.
And finally,  let the editor put it all together into an effective screen display.

Now,  I know that tiling dosn't give you a nice border around your screen if you
want one.  So,  I will be addressing screen borders also at a later time.


About Sliders
I had a chat (via email) with Art concerning these.  I was mistaken in believing that
"proper" sliders (with thumb tracking) already exist and were properly implemented
in MACH.  This is in fact not the case.  So there will be no special support for DRO
sliders in my editor,  other than to allow you to assign a slider image to be used by
MACH.

I was hoping to able to do more with sliders,  but right now,  it isn't possible
due to the way the MACH software works.




Best Regards

Stan

Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on February 07, 2007, 08:14:02 PM
David,

I forgot to mention (in case you didn't know :


In your first screen shot,  the background is white because
of the automatic selection of "transparent color".

The editor uses "Transparent color" to render an image to
a specific shape by ignoring all pixels matching the transparent
color.

The manual I wrote covers this properly in detail,
in case you need more information.

Basically,  to correct the white background,  change the
transparent color of the image to a color that does not
appear in the image at all.

best regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on February 10, 2007, 10:30:09 PM
Hi All,

Lots of new stuff done on the up-coming editor.
Here's a screen shot showing the new layout that
the editor will use.

(http://files.jetcam.net/stan/MACH/Screen_Shots/MSD_01.JPG)



Regards

Stan.


Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: ynneb on February 11, 2007, 01:48:26 AM
WOW, You have really put some thought into this. The layout looks very easy to use. I cant wait to try it out.
If it does every thing that screen 4 does and more easily, I will ask Art to make it the default screen designer. ( If thats OK with you?)
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on February 11, 2007, 07:45:30 AM
Hi All,

Another preview of the upcoming editor.
The screen shown below demonstrates the following :


1. Some LEDs have been selected in the screen being edited.

2. The image property is selected in the property grid,  and
the dialog button [...] was pushed to bring up the Image dialog.



The Image Properties Dialog

1.  Because the selected items are LEDs,  the editor allows
you to select 2 images (Led ON and Led OFF).
Some image properties are NOT displayed in the dialog,
because they do not apply to LEDs.

2.  Images are selected from a thumbnails list which is loaded
from the current screen project images directory.

3.  You can add new images to the project images
directory by clicking the "Add Image" button.  This copies the
image file you select into the current project's images directory.
This also makes new images available in the thumbnails selector.

4.  The On/Off Led images shown here,  are "built into" the editor,
and so are always available for LEDs.

5.  If you choose NOT to assign images to LEDs,  then the renderer
will render LEDs as colored boxes (as in the existing screen editor).



(http://files.jetcam.net//stan/MACH/Screen_Shots/MSD_02.jpg)





regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: ynneb on February 11, 2007, 08:03:55 AM
Stan, how hard would it be to have a dropdown and scrollable selection for the Control function and OEM codes ?
Besides been a lot of typing which I can do for you if you want. Is it possible the dropdown menu reads from a txt file with all the OEM and Control function codes ?
That way we can just replace the txt file when new stuff is added etc.
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: davidimurray on February 11, 2007, 08:23:08 AM
 :o :o :o

Looking great there Stan. Can't wait to have a play! Led's are looking great and extermly easy to use. Having an editor with such features, but at the same time being easy to use will make screen designe a breeze!

One question - Between the properties and the screen window there are some buttons. Are these buttons gonna remain as letters or will they use icons like in the original designer? My only concern may be that new users might not get the meanings - whereas icons may give them a better idea.

Keep up the good work

Cheers

Dave
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on February 11, 2007, 08:48:32 AM
Benny,

Control Functions

Although you can't see this in the screen shots,
Control function is already a drop down and the drop
down displays functions relevent to the selected
item(s).  ie LED control functions are not the same
as Button control functions,  so the drop down displays
the appropriate list.


OEM Codes

I want to do the same for OEM codes,  but have no idea
what needs to be in the drop down.  I may implement this
as I did format strings (see below).


Format Strings

This is already a drop down,  and there is a setup
screen where you can enter your own list of useful
format strings.


David,

The toolbar that show's letters,  is the same toolbar as in the
existing editor.  I just haven't put the images on the buttons
yet.

Users will ALWAYS know the meaning of a button,  because
all buttons have popup hints when you hover the mouse over them.



Additional Information
=====================
1.  Images can now be transparently stretched.  This could not be done
in the original editor.  A transparent image in this case is one that has
areas that are completely transparent,  making the image look non
rectangular.  For example : The round LEDs are transparent
images because the 4 corners are omitted when an led is drawn to
the screen.

2.  Background image (including tiling) has now been implemented.

3.  I will post another screen shot showing various imaging capabilities,
later.  (probably not today as there is loads more work to be done).



regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: davidimurray on February 11, 2007, 09:23:47 AM
Hi Stan

Quote
OEM Codes

I want to do the same for OEM codes,  but have no idea
what needs to be in the drop down.  I may implement this
as I did format strings (see below).

The ability to customise this list would be great. If you could set it up the same as your new format strings that would be great.

One other question - with LED's and images, will it be possible to use LED's of different shapes for each state. E.g. when an LED is on it is a circle, when it is off then it changes to a cross? Or will it only support 'morphing' between images of the same shape?

Stan, I know I keep saying it but thank you so much for doing all this work on the editor. This is going to be a revolution in the way screens are developed. As always if there is anything I can do to help just give me a shout.

Cheers

Dave
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on February 11, 2007, 10:28:21 AM
Hi David,

LED ON/OFF images


Each LED image is unique.
And that automatically implies,  anything can be on the
images you use. It is you,  the user who decides what images
you will use for the LED on/off states.

Furthermore, they don't even have to be the same size,  BUT,  in this
case, the editor will apply appropriate scaling to make them the same size.
It's best however to keep things simple and use the same size image
for both states.

So,  to answer your question,  yes,  LEDs can be different shapes.
But the definition of a shape really implies that the shape of the
LED is drawn differently on each image.




best regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on February 11, 2007, 11:07:13 AM
Benny,

I've just finished implementing the "OEM Code" drop down.
This includes the setup for defining your own drop down
list of codes to be displayed.


Editor Setup Screen

(http://files.jetcam.net/stan/mach/screen_shots/MSD_03.jpg)



regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: davidimurray on February 11, 2007, 11:52:02 AM
Hi Stan

Looking good - would it possible to have a way to include names with the OEM and format codes ? e.g

1001 - Pause
1002 - Rewind

and

%.4F - DRO Setup 1
%.3F - DRO Setup 2

I'm thinking that with a descriptive name it is theoretically possible to supply all the OEM codes and then just select the name of the control you want - no need to look up any code numbers at all then after the inital setup.

Also does the setup window support pasting text into it from the clipboard? i.e. you could have a standard text file used as a library and simply copy the text and paste it inot your setup screen.

We're (well mainly me ;D !) a demanding bunch ! Hope you don't mind me putting in so many comments - a shame we aren't getting more input from some of the other users....

Cheers

Dave
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on February 11, 2007, 12:35:20 PM
David,

Yes,  descriptions can be added.  I'll take care of that later.
If I do this for OEM codes,  I will also do it for format strings.

Yes,   you can paste you existing text into the setup.

regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on February 11, 2007, 12:44:13 PM
David,

Quote
Hope you don't mind me putting in so many comments


That's no problem.
As long as you don't mind waiting longer for the release,
you can ask for anything you want.

Writing this editor is certainly not trivial.
The only real question is,  how long do you want to wait.

regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: mikep_95133 on February 11, 2007, 07:18:28 PM
Go Stan Go!

1) Can the new editor open a screen file that was originally made with Jetcam 1.01 without corruption?

2) Jetcam 1.01 can be opened in 2 separate windows at the same time. This allows for copying and pasting of elements from another screen design into a new design. Can the new version of your editor do this?

3) If I understood a previous post correctly, the issue with Sliders is inside of Mach. If that is true, then why can Screen4 use sliders and Jetcam cannot?

Mike
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on February 11, 2007, 07:55:44 PM
Hi Mike,

Quote
Can the new editor open a screen file that was
originally made with Jetcam 1.01 without corruption?

I am still deciding that.  Due to the way the original editor
I wrote works,  this is going to be complicated to do.
In any case,  it would be about the last thing I'm going to
look at.

Copy screen items

Yes,  you will be able to copy and paste from 2 separate running copies of
the editor.  But as things stand now,  this will not work if one copy is the
existing editor and the other is the new editor.

I may create a quick and dirty solution by simply updating the copy / paste
code in the existing editor,  so that it will be compatible with the new one.
This would also negate having to support the existing EDT file format.


Sliders

There has been much discussion about sliders,
and I am unclear as to which slider issue you are talking about.

The new editor will allow you to assign a bitmap to a DRO in order
to make a slider.  This is fairly trivial.  As far as I know,  that's about
all MACH will support concerning sliders.

Inside MACH,  sliders are simply images that stretch,  and there is no
way for me to improve on that.  However,  the situation may change
in the future depending on what new development occurs in MACH.


regards

Stan

Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: ger21 on February 11, 2007, 09:23:05 PM

The only real question is,  how long do you want to wait.



As long as it takes to get it right. ;)
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: Chaoticone on February 11, 2007, 10:13:17 PM
STAN, STAN.................HE'S OUR MAN.................IF HE CAN'T DO IT..........................NOBODY CAN................... ;D

Looking good.

Brett
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: davidimurray on February 13, 2007, 04:38:19 AM
Quote
The only real question is,  how long do you want to wait.

Hi Stan

Personally, I think it would be better to have an editor that is 99% complete. If you release an early version then it may dishearten people if it doesn't do everything they expect. On the other hand a good editor with lots of new features should blow people away. With your editor we have a great opportunity to create the editor 'WE' want and I believe it is better for us and yourself to try and get it right before release. HAve you been in discussion with Art regarding his thoughts on Screen 4 and what would improve it/his perceived weaknesses of it.

Cheers

Dave
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on February 13, 2007, 04:50:46 AM
Hi Dave,

Yes I have been in touch with Art,  and I prefer Art to comment
concerning Screen 4 as that has very little to do with me.

I'll post more progress updates as soon as I have something worthy
to show you guys.  As I am currently working on internal parts of
the editor,  there isn't much to see.

best regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on February 13, 2007, 08:45:13 PM
Hi All,

Editor Progress Report


1.  Undo

The Undo system has now been put into the editor.
The original undo was set to a maximum of 64 levels.
The new editor has unlimited undo - unless you run out
of memory and disk space - in which case it might be time
to buy a new computer.

Undo lists are separately maintained for each screen in the
screen file set.


Supported Undo operations :
Keyboard Size and Move
Mouse Size and Move
All automatic alignment and size functions
Add new item
Paste item
Cut item
Delete item(s)


2.  Moving and Sizing Items
When moving and sizing items in the original editor,  a simple
bounding box is used to represent the items while they are
being moved/sized.  The new editor fully renders the items,
during these operations.  However,  I intend to make "full render"
optional so that users with slower computers can use the original
system.



3.  Hot Keys
There is a new view option available,  called (not surpisingly) Hot Keys.
This when enabled,  displays the hot key for all screen items that
have one assigned.  The hot key is displayed in the top left corner
of each item.

Furthermore,  the hot keys are displayed as proper key sequences.
ie CTRL-R






Regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: kookaburra on February 13, 2007, 10:48:02 PM
Stan,

Thanks for such a great product, you have taken an easy way to customise Mach and made it 10 times easier again!! I take my hat off to you and encourage you to keep it up, I am watching this thread every day to keep up on your latest developments. I can't wait to see what comes out next. Once again Thank You!!

Regards

Dave
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on February 13, 2007, 11:12:11 PM
Dave,

Thanks.

Update

I've now implemented the new move options so that slower
computers can use the old system to keep things running
smoother and faster.

(http://files.jetcam.net/stan/mach/screen_shots/MSD_04.jpg)


(http://files.jetcam.net/stan/mach/screen_shots/MSD_05.jpg)




best regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: Brian Barker on February 14, 2007, 07:50:32 AM
Hello Stan,
Just wanted to tell you that I think  you are doing a great job! If Benny is happy I think everyone is going to like it ;)

Keep up the good work!
Brian
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on February 14, 2007, 05:00:37 PM
Hi All,

Progress Update

The image below shows the following :

1.  Hot Keys view option in action.

When the option is turned on,  Hot Key values
are overlayed onto all controls that have one.

2.  OEM Code (and Format String)
The setup screen shows how to define look up
OEM codes and Format Strings with optional
messages.

If you create a message for a code,  then it is the
message that is displayed in the drop down.

Use "//" as a delimiter between the code and the
optional message.


(http://files.jetcam.net/stan/mach/screen_shots/MSD_06.jpg)





Regards

Stan

Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: ynneb on February 14, 2007, 07:28:51 PM
At the risk of repeating myself too often, I am impressed at the thought and planing you are putting into this Stan. I can imagine a heap of people using this designer in the future.
All your posts are sort of teasing, I am wondering if you could give us a rough estimate of when it will be published ? If it works as well as it sounds like its going to, I will make sure every one hears about it. I would be happy to host it and put counters on it so you can see how many people your work has helped.
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on February 14, 2007, 07:54:35 PM
Hi Benny,

Quote
All your posts are sort of teasing

This is not my intention.  I am letting MACH users follow the development
of the editor,  in order to give everyone a chance to submit ideas or
requests.  It is much easier for people to think of things they need when
they can see what is being developed and how.

I can understand that it seems like teasing,  but I can't think of everything
that's needed on my own because I am not a MACH user.



Quote
I would be happy to host it....

Excellent,  I'd like that.
Just before the release,  I'll be in contact with you
regarding hosting.


Progress Update :

1.  Well,  I've just ported over the button rendering
code (from the existing editor) for producing the "Shine"
and "Interlace" effects.  I have to say,  it's looking great.


Next items to do :

Shadows and Button Glyphs (Icons).

A button can have a background image and an icon.
The background image part is done,  and will allow you
to create buttons of absolutely any shape using the
masking properties.

I'll post a screen shot of exactly what can be achieved as soon
as the renderers are complete.




best regards

Stan


Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: ART on February 14, 2007, 09:14:29 PM
Hi Guys:

  I just wanted to jump in here. As most of you know , I rarely get here unless
pointed on a slow day. I have seen the  "Stan" editor grow over time, and I
wanted to duck in long enough to express my gratitude to Stan. Stan has a platinum
card with me, so anything he needs I will try to provide.
   The original screen editor is woefully inadequate for many things, since it was
written as an "Egg before the chicken" tool to create Mach3. I can see Stans
work allowing many more to create great screens, other than those who have
had the nerve to learn the old ones pecadillo's. Thanks to all who have contributed
to Stans questions and requests for suggestions. Its that spirit that allows for such things.

  Im working on future features that will help everyone, and work like Stans is what allows me
the time to do so. I suspect few really  know exactly how much work is involved in such a thing,
and a screen designer with the power that Stan is creating is he;lping to push the hobbiest into
new territory. 

 Keep up the great work, its more an art form than a program.

Art (no pun intended. :) )
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on February 17, 2007, 06:38:14 PM
Progress Update,

I've been working on the renders in order to be
able to produce the same kinds of effects as are
available in the existing editor.

The image below shows some of the property
settings combinations that can be applied to
buttons.  Note : Shadows currently only work
if the button is rectangular.

I improved the shadow renderer,  as the original
editor simply drew a gray box.

This image was captured from the editor's new Preview mode.
(http://files.jetcam.net/stan/mach/screen_shots/MSD_07.jpg)


Comming up

Buttons will get a glyph (icon) property for those
that want windwos style iconic buttons or buttons
with an icon and text.  An icon is separate from the
button background,  so a button can have an image
as a background and an icon as well.

Password protection for MACH screen files.
(Almost complete).

The editor files themselves don't need protection
as you never have to ship those when releasing
set files.

If anyone out there has one or two button images I
can use for testing,  I'd appreciate it.  I'd rather work
and test with end user files to get a better appreciation
of what types of images I could expect.

Note : The button images do not have to represent a
properly rectangular button.  In fact I would prefer they
didn't.



Stay Tuned

regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: davidimurray on February 18, 2007, 12:16:23 PM
Hi Stan

As always looking great  ;D

I've attached one awkward shaped button, an arrow. I often use these in wizards etc.

The second is a 2-state button. I.e. is it possible to make the image change based on the button state? That consists of images test1a and test2a.

Finally a tool selection buttom

If you want some more buttons just let me know.

Cheers

Dave
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on February 18, 2007, 02:25:17 PM
David,

Thank you very much.  That's a nice selection you provided.
I see that you only have single images for buttons.
(You do not have an image for "Up" and and image for "Down").

Is this a problem that the editor should be able to solve?
If so,  I can't be sure about what can be done.


2 State Buttons

I may need to talk to Art about this unless you yourself can tell
me if the MACH software supports 2 state buttons (and if so,
how they are setup). 

If anyone else out there has sample buttons,  I'd love to see them.


regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: ART on February 18, 2007, 02:34:44 PM
Hi Stan:

 It doesnt. Though one can use an invisable button, and a two state LED on top of it to do the same thing. Buttons themselves merely shrink when pressed.
But two state LEDs act just like a two state button.. Just more of a pain to set up cuz you need script in the button to toggle the LED state, unless the LED is a system LED so it changes by itself.. For example, a Reset/Safe button can be done by using a two state ESTOP led, one that says Safe, one that says RESET, an invisable reset button will then work as a two state button..

Art
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: davidimurray on February 18, 2007, 02:52:26 PM
Hi Stan

Art beat me to it  :P

As Art said, images are simply shrunk to represent the down state - personally I think this works fine.

A lot of 'fudges' have been employed in the original editor by using transparent buttons to get around problems. Stan, would it either be possible to create a new ' Button LED' that combined LED images with a transparent button mask over the top, while at the same time having access to both sets of options ?

Alternatively, you may have mentioned this before, but is is possible to have grouped items in the new editor. i.e. you could group an LED image and transparent button together to keep them together. Also would it be possible to have a way to edit the properties of items within the group without having to group them? e.g perhaps you click on a group and press ctrl-alt-1, ctrl-alt-2 etc to bring up the properties of each item in the group?

If your at all familiar with realdraw pro i am thinking of something along the lines of their 'packages', that could be easily implemented.

Cheers

Dave

Cheers

Dave
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on February 18, 2007, 03:26:23 PM
David,  Art,

Well, Dave,  this time you beat me to it.
Here's what I am already proposing.


I want to get away from the scenario where users are having
to edit screens in non intuitive ways,  because this gets difficult
for new users.

COMPOSITE COMPONENTS

Led Button combo
This is a button and an LED combined in such a way
that the user sets this up and works with it as a single
"composite" item in the editor.

The editor then will automatically "split out" the button and
LED into separate components when exporting to MACH.

Clicking the button will toggle the LED state.  The button
will move down and up when clicked.  The LED will light
depending on state.



Click LED
I will also add a new composite item type : a "Clickable" LED.
This will employ the Invisible button over an LED,  but to the
user,  it will be a single composite item that again is spit apart
when the screen is exported to MACH.


Button Shrinking
That has to go.  There's no way I will be able to handle good button
representation if MACH does it's own thing when rendering.  I'll work
out a way to solve this with Art in such a way that existing screens don't
get affected by changes.

Art,  I will provide "proper" support for non-rectangular buttons
rendered onto a rectangular bitmap surface using Chroma-Keyed transparency.
This involves combining the background properly,  and MACH can't be allowed
to mess with the bitmap size of a button if the underlying background is not
resized also.


Group Items
David,  I am not at all familiar with Real-Draw and only partially understand
some of what you are asking.  Believe me,  you will not need grouping
in order to setup screen items if I implement composite components.

I don't know how realistic it would be to support composite items in time
for the next release of the editor.  I will see what I can do.


Automatic Script Generator
I also intend to provide an automatic script generator for
LED toggling when creating and editing the above Led/Button
composite components.

My thinking is that the generator will create the basic
script,  which you can then edit and change as necessary.
The script generator will support basic On/Off toggling and
Radio Button type toggling,  (where turning on a led,
results in turning off other leds).




regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: davidimurray on February 18, 2007, 04:08:59 PM
Hi Stan

Quote
Led Button combo
Brilliant!

Quote
Click LED
Brilliant!

Quote
Group Items
No longer needed as the above items will deal with it.

Quote
Automatic Script Generator
Great idea.

Stan, this editor is going to blow people away  :o

Cheers

Dave
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on February 18, 2007, 04:31:33 PM
Hi All,

I made a mistake in my last post and an appology goes out to Art.
If a button has 2 images,  the button is not resized when pushed,
so there is no change required in MACH regarding button pushing
(clicking).

best regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on February 18, 2007, 05:35:29 PM
Dave, 

Button Images and Non Rectangular Buttons


If you intend to use an image that will represent a non rectangular
shaped button (ie arrow,  circle,  or some other shape),  then you need
to adhere to the following rules if you want the screen designer (and MACH)
to be able to display them properly.

* Never use a JPG image.  Bmp is the preferred format.

* The area of the image that does not represent any part
of the button should be a single color only.  This almost
never happens with JPG images which is why they cannot
be used.

* The image must not include a shadow or any other type
of blended effect outside the button (or on the button border), 
because this violates the rule above and cannot be correctly
rendered in either MACH or the screen editor.


In order to correctly render a non rectangular button,  a method
called Chroma Key (or Rotoscoping) is used in order to mask out the
button shape.

The movie industry uses this method (ie Blue Screen),  to composite
images into a background frame.  Non rectangular buttons are
composited in exactly the same way onto the MACH background screen.

So Dave,  if you want to use any of those images you posted, 
with the new editor,  you'll need to clean them up first.
Which means,  remove the shadows,  give the shape a solid outline,
etc...)

What you gain by doing this,  is the ability to Move/Size the button at any time
in the editor without the need to worry about the background the button will
be displayed on.  The editor will correctly composite the button onto the
background for you.



regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: davidimurray on February 19, 2007, 04:03:37 PM
Hi Stan

The need to have no form of effect on the button is a bit of a downside in my opinion. The ability to use the power of a drawing package allows a much greater range of styles to be applied without relying on you editor.

Have you tried using a transparent PNG image? These use a truly transparent background - i've attached one as an example.

Secondly for button down states, are we going to always have to add a second button down picture, or will the editor have some way to automatically create a resized or some other effect to denote button down?

You may be interested in these videos by Benny that describes the way we have been creating buttons, images etc using Real Draw Pro -

Quote
Video 1, "Preparing pictures for Screen 4"  (18 Minutes) http://www.machsupport.com/bennys*********/Untitled_media/Untitled.wmv
Video 2, "Using Pictures in Screen 4" http://www.machsupport.com/bennys*********/Untitled_media/p2.wmv
Video 3, "Creating LED BMPs" http://www.machsupport.com/bennys*********/ledsTUT/leds.wmv Partial Tutorial.
Video 4, "Making a Changeable BMP button" http://www.machsupport.com/bennys*********/ledsTUT/SHOME.wmv
The Software shown in the tutorial can be downloade from here http://www.mediachance.com/realdraw/ and has a 30 day fully working trial.

Cheers

Dave
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on February 19, 2007, 04:39:05 PM
Dave,

You can have ANYTHING you want "on the button",  but not outside the shape.
The image is a rectangle,  but the button may not be.  So within the part that is the button,
you can have what you want.  Your arrow button is a good example of this.  Within the arrow,
you do what you like,  outside the arrow,  the image should be one flat color (a color not used
anywhere inside the arrow).

It might be a good idea if you post a button you'd like to use.
Then I can get a more exact idea of what is needed.  It can be
PNG if you like.


regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: ynneb on February 20, 2007, 12:06:36 AM
Stan here are some test pngs as requested. No shadows.
They are transparent png files. I am not sure how your editor will see them. It may see them as black, in this case it wont be helpfull.

It may solve you some problems if you just accept transparent png files. I know the code is free for this. I also know Art has installed transparent pngs into mach.
I am not sure if you have played with transparent pngs, they are like gifs only they have much superior features, like true colour etc.
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on February 20, 2007, 12:33:50 AM
Hi Benny,

Thanks for those buttons.
Can I get an up/down where the button is NOT black.

Black Button
The image breaks my first rule (not your fault),  because the
transparent area is black - which is also a color used on the button.
So most parts of the button also become fully transparent.

In the case of PNG,  I hopefully will be able to get the
alpha channel data and perform the necessary conversion
to my own internal format.


Star
The Star image came in fine and I set the transparent color
to black to match the PNG.  It then rendered as a star.
I will try to code the image loader to automatically determine
transparency for PNGs.

Anyway,  they were great examples,  because they showed some problems
in the editor.

regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on February 20, 2007, 12:49:12 AM
Benny,

I've been doing some checking concerning the PNG files,
and I have a question.

When you create the PNG,  are you able to tell your editor
which color to use as the transparent color when you save the
png to disk.  I currently suspect,  black is the default,  but it can
be changed.

The reason I ask,  is because if it can be changed,  you need to
use a different color in the case of your black button.

regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: ynneb on February 20, 2007, 01:30:58 AM
Stan, a transparent PNG is just that, it is transparent just like a GIF.
It has no background color.
I strongly suggest you download the fully working 30 day trial of Real Draw. Most of us use this.
I promise its extremely easy to use, and you might even become hooked.
I think when you see what we do to create pictures, it may also influence how you design your designer.
you can download it from here, its only 10 meg from memory.  http://www.download.com/3000-2191_4-10446713.html

Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on February 20, 2007, 01:59:32 AM
Benny,

Bitmaps are fully rectangular.
Every pixel in a bitmap represents a color or an index into a color palette.
PNG is no exception.

Some bitmap file formats (such as PNG) also support alpha channels.
32 bit bitmaps (BMPs), store the alpha in the last byte of each pixel.
But each pixel has a color.

Png has 3 transparency modes.
None
Bit
Translucid

Bit uses a transparent color
Translucid uses aplha channel data.

My editor uses a transparent color property (Chroma Key Color) to
define transparent areas,  but renders the images using proper
aplha channel values.

I will analyse the PNGs you sent to find out how to best
deal with their transparency.




regards

Stan.
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: Scott on February 20, 2007, 11:27:37 PM
Stan, will we be able to easily (to a degree) convert a screen that is being worked on in screen4 over to JetCam?

The reason I ask is because Screen4 has pulled some weirdness on me twice this evening that has wasted about 2 hours each time (everything decides it want to move down about 500 pixels and then while trying to fix that, everything is gone after a save).  It's done this before and I'm about ready to rip it out by it's .dll's  >:(

Regards,
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on February 20, 2007, 11:46:23 PM
Scott,

Yes,  editing existing MACH screens is the most important goal for my editor.
So stay tuned.



PNG Support

Ok guys,  check this out.
Oh,  and by the way,  you can forget what I said about shadows etc.
You can put whatever you like in your PNGs.

In this image,  my editor tiled a bitmap onto the background,  and then
rendered the PNG button over the top.

(http://files.jetcam.net/stan/mach/screen_shots/MSD_08.JPG)

Note : In order to make this work correctly,  I had to create a new Image button component.
Originally,  there was only one type of button.  Now there are 2.

Normal buttons allow users to use my renderer to create rendered buttons with
effects like Interlace and Shine etc...

Image buttons allow you to render your own images in your favourite drawing app,  and then
use those images for your buttons.

So essentially,  I am doing the same as Screen 4 does.

Thanks to all of those who provided PNG examples.
I still need to do more testing,  but I don't think there will be any
problems.


regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: ynneb on February 20, 2007, 11:54:57 PM
Quote
I think when you see what we do to create pictures, it may also influence how you design your designer.

I thought that might happen :)

It will save you a lot of head aches too.

We can put shadows on our buttons and your designer does not have to deal with that issue.

Thanks for your great work.
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on February 21, 2007, 01:21:19 AM
Hi benny,


Quote
...It will save you a lot of head aches too.

It's not me I'm worried about.


Quote
We can put shadows on our buttons and your
designer does not have to deal with that issue.

You are of course correct  :),  but you are also missing the point.
I am trying to produce an editor that anyone can use
in order to produce good screens.

Not everyone owns and/or uses sophisticated drawing
packages,  or Flash editors,  and those who don't,  currently
have no way to produce good screens without putting in
a tremendous amount of effort.  Which is why I have
incorporated an advanced renderer for those who want
nice buttons etc,  but can't make their own.

The point of my editor,  is to allow anyone who wishes to,
to produce MACH add-ons or other screens as effortlessly
as possible.

I also understand that you guys who are using drawing packages to
render buttons etc,  are doing an important job,  because ugly looking
software certainly doesn't sell,  so MACH (Art) definately benefits from
your fine efforts also.

I am hoping the final editor will benefit both experienced and novice
screen designers equally well.  At least that is the final goal.



best regards

Stan

Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: Scott on February 21, 2007, 11:27:08 AM
Stan,

I don't know if you need anymore .png's to test with, but here's a couple of special ones I used for some LED's.

Regards, 
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: Scott on February 22, 2007, 03:19:28 PM
I have question about DRO's.  If they are 'skinned' as in Screen4, the numbers are shifted to the left leaving wasted space on the right which causes you to have to make any placeholders in the background jpg longer to keep from cutting off the numbers on the left end.  Is this something that won't happen in JetCam?

Thanks,
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on February 22, 2007, 03:28:11 PM
Scott,

I haven't yet begun to look at DRO sliders.  So I can't answer that at pesent.
I still have work to finish on buttons and leds.



regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: Scott on February 22, 2007, 06:13:17 PM
Thanks Stan,

I didn't mean DRO sliders, just plain DRO's that have the reflection and sparkle skinned on top of them (transparent .png again).  Like these.  Notice how they are shifted to the left leaving a blank space at the right.

Maybe you meant DRO's and DRO sliders in general though.

Regards,
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: ynneb on February 22, 2007, 06:41:24 PM
I wonder if it would help if you had the source code that was in Mach in order to do some of the things you want. Including fixing up the sliders so it wasnt a stretch thing, and was more realistic. Is it possible to get just that part of the source and experiment with it, or would you need the whole mach source? ( I doubt the latter would be possible.
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on February 22, 2007, 08:23:11 PM
Scott,

Sorry for the confusion.
I've never seen a DRO skinned that way (except with Flash).  I will be looking at DROs
later,  so I'll post my results at that time.

Benny

The whole mach source would not be very useful to me,  and nor would I suggest
that Art let me have it to look at.  As far as rendering is concerned,  I may discuss
this further with Art,  but for now,  I just want to release a working editor.

Regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: davidimurray on February 23, 2007, 01:24:19 PM
Hi Guys

Sorry I ain't been around the last few days - picked up a bug so I've been spending my time in bed reading books and watching daytime tv (that alone is enough to make you feel ill!)

Anyhow, looks like you are making good progress with the editor - great news on the PNG front. Do you need any more test files in the meantime?

Cheers

Dave
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on February 23, 2007, 01:44:25 PM
Hi Dave,

I got an excellent screen set from Scott for testing.
So I'll be using that for now as it's a great example.

regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on February 26, 2007, 12:34:17 PM
Hi All,

I am currently "re-looking" at how images are handled by my editor.
After I downloaded Scott's excellent screen set and looked into some of the
problems he is having with Screen4,  I have decided to do the following :

All images used in a set file,  will be listed using absolute paths.
Screen3 and Screen4 use relative paths which normally is a good idea
but causes problems when directory names are changed.

By recording images used in a set file using absolute paths,  this means that
when designing screens,  you will not have to copy images for new sets.
You will be able to store all your images in one central location but not
necessarily all in one directory. 

For example,  you might want one directory
to contain LED images and another for Button images.

When exporting a screen set for use inside MACH,  the editor will then
copy any required files into a directory where MACH can find them.
Only image files that are not already in the required location will be copied.

Hopefully,  this should solve the various problems people are having with
managing image files when editing screen sets.


regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: Scott on February 26, 2007, 01:45:02 PM
AWESOME!   ;)
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on February 26, 2007, 02:13:25 PM
Scott,

I have a question.
After I download your screen set,  I tried to load it into Screen4.
It came in ok,  but the images did not.

Is there something I am supposed to do to get your screen set to load
correctly into Screen4?

The reason I ask,  is because I need to see this set loaded in Screen4 to
determine what's going on with some of the positioning.

Your very large background images are loading in at an offset from (0, 0),
and I cannot determine why.

By the way,  you should note that you will NOT have to use large images
like that in my editor.  You can simply assign a background image to the
screen itself.  That way,  it isn't possible to accidently move the image.

regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: Scott on February 26, 2007, 03:43:35 PM
Hi Stan,

The folder of bitmaps needs to be put in the Mach3\bitmaps folder and the .set file in the root Mach3 folder.  Also, Screen4 needs to know where the the Mach3 folder is by going to Defaults/Mach Location.

I purposely placed the background at 5,5 just to give a black border around it when Mach3 is running.  Whenever I open it in Screen4, I choose 'Custom' and leave it at 1280 x 1024.  The screen itself is 1100 x 800 to give me the space I needed and give a nice size when used on a 17" LCD at 1280 x 1024.  I run it with 'Auto Screen Enlarge' off in Mach3 'General Config' for best appearance and I can get at the desktop for other stuff quicker. If you run it with auto screen enlarge on and maximize it, the graphics get fuzzy (as with any other screenset).

Regards,
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on February 26, 2007, 04:09:19 PM
Hi Scott,

Thanks for that info.  Now I understand what's happening.

Quote
The folder of bitmaps needs to be put in the Mach3\bitmaps folder and the
.set file in the root Mach3 folder.

Ok,  this seems to imply that Screen4 can't be used to develop add-ons.
Or at least,  I can't see how it would be possible.


Quote
I purposely placed the background at 5,5 just to give a black border
around it when Mach3 is running.

Great.  In my editor,  you would delete this image,  then set the
screen background to this image and set the ImageDisplayMode to
Center.  So,  if your screen is larger than the image,  you'd get that
border area around the image.

Also,  I am glad to hear that you turn off Auto Screen Enlarge.  When it's on, 
MACH rescales all images resulting in what you described.


Regards

Stan

Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: Scott on February 26, 2007, 07:40:28 PM
Quote
Ok,  this seems to imply that Screen4 can't be used to develop add-ons.  Or at least,  I can't see how it would be possible.

It can, but you have to have the images in the bitmap folder while working on an add-on/wizard and also in the respective add-on folder or you can't see what you're doing.  ???

See this thread.....http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php?topic=1895.0

Regards,
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on February 26, 2007, 08:26:15 PM
Scott,

Yep,  it's the Bitmaps folder that causes the problem - There isn't one,  and
the images are stored with relative paths in the set file. 
All your images point to Back 'n Black directory,  so putting them in a Bitmaps directory
wont let Screen4 "see" them.  The strange thing is that Screen 4 wont load them from
the Back 'n Black directory either.  Which I think,  "forces" you to work directly in the
MACH directory.

Also,  I think there may be something coded into the Set file,  that tells MACH that it's not an AddOn,
but I can't be sure about that.  I'm almost certain that I'm missing something here unless the location of
set file determines everything.  ie,  if it's not in the AddOns folder,  then it's a replacement screen set.

In any case,  none of those restrictions are going to exist with my editor.
You'll be able to edit screen files without having them anywhere near MACH until
you're ready to export the screen set.  That's when it will get copied into the appropriate
MACH location along with the Bitmaps.

But all this is optional.  In other words,  if you want to work directly in the MACH folder(s),
as you do now,  that will be ok too.


Best Regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on March 01, 2007, 11:15:50 AM
Hi All,

Another progress update :

1.  Button and LED images
I've finally got the editor to handle images the way I want.
You can either supply a single image containing Up/Down or
On/Off pictures or you can supply seperate images for each
state.

When loading existing MACH screens,  the editor will detect and
decombine the images as the MACH software does and re-combine
them when exporting to a MACH screen set.


2.  Custom Screen Items
Like Screen4,  my editor has a palette of standard
items that can be put on your screens.
ie Button,  Led,  DRO,  etc...

However,  this palette can also be customized.
Not only can you drag items from the palette onto
your screens,  but you can drag items from your
screens into the palette.

This makes the items permanently available for
other screens and screen projects because they
are stored as part of the editors configuration and
not as part of a screen set.

To make this even more interesting,  you can select a group
of items on your screen and add them to the palette as a
single entry.

When you subsequently drag that palette item onto another
screen,  all the screen items associated with that palette item,
will be faithfully recreated onto the new screen.

(http://files.jetcam.net/stan/mach/screen_shots/MSD_09.JPG)



Best Regards

Stan


Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: ynneb on March 01, 2007, 04:47:40 PM
Its sounding like there will be loads of features.
We might have to set you up to do a video tutorial, so that we wont mis out on any of the great features.
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on March 01, 2007, 04:49:57 PM
Hi Benny,

I will definately be making a few short video tutorials.
I have software to do that.

best regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: ART on March 01, 2007, 06:14:37 PM
Hi Stan:

 We'll help with that with anything you need. Once your done Ill add feature support as needed, and as I can. Delaing with the Screen background can be torublesome as its a CFromView, and their notorious for bad messageing when it comes to backgrounds. But I think we'll be able to add whatever features need to be done.. :)

Art
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on March 06, 2007, 09:04:00 PM
Hi All,  Here's another progress update

Sliders

Well I've finally managed to duplicate slider rendering to
closely approximate the final look in MACH.

Slider properties DO NOT however work the same as in
Screen4.  In Screen4,  you have to modify the Format String
to create a Slider from a D.R.O.

What I have done is to make Sliders a completely separate
item.  When reading screens created in Screen3 and Screen4,
the editor will automatically detect DROs that are sliders and convert
them.

A new edit dialog for Sliders allows you to set the various
slider properties without having to do it in the Format String.
In this case,  the Format String is edited exactly as for a standard
DRO.  ie %0.3f

When saving out the screen,  the editor will automatically insert
the correct Slider parameters into the format string for you.

(http://files.jetcam.net/stan/mach/screen_shots/MSD_10.JPG)



Skinned DROs
These are now supported also.


Screen Background Images
Many of you who are designing screens are using very large
screen background images and locking them down when
using Screen4.

My editor now allows you to convert a large screen image into
"the screen background".  This means,  the image you are
using is destroyed,  and the picture becomes a property of
the screen itself - so can't be selected and accidently moved or
sized - so it behaves like a locked down image in Screen4.

The screen background image suppoorts the usual image
modes (stretch, crop, aspect fit etc.).  When performing the
conversion,  you may end up having to re-align all your controls
if the original screen background image was offset from the
actual top left corner of the screen.


Best Regards


Stan.





Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: ynneb on March 09, 2007, 06:08:50 AM
Hey Stan I just had a thought. Surprisingly there are no right click options on screen 4, will yours have right click options like cut, copy, group, etc ?
Will your designer also allow shortcut keys like Ctrl, x, y, z, v, g, u, etc ? These seemingly small requests will make a big difference to users.

Also will you be able to have more than one instance of your designer open, and if so, will you be able to copy things across from one instance to another. This also is much needed. Or maybe one instance open but tabbed versions of different screens ?

Sorry If these questions have been answered b4, I did scan quickly through and couldn't see where.
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on March 09, 2007, 07:23:57 AM
Hi Benny,

Right click options

No Problem.  Not sure what you mean
by "Group",  I have no such function.


Keyboard functions
Well,  there aleady are some,  others
can be added on request but not till
the software's out and being used.


More than one instance running.
It can already do that.  And you can
copy paste items/pages between them.


regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: poppabear on March 09, 2007, 01:40:14 PM
Ok,

  So when does your new screen designers become available?? Do you have an ETA???

Grouping:  I think by grouping he means (like in CAD), you have a group of objects close, or touching, or on top of each other, that you can Select them all and hit Group. at that time If you click on any one of the objects in the group. All the objects become selected and when you drag or move it, it all moves together as a group.

Scott
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on March 09, 2007, 02:13:23 PM
Hi Scott,

I am currently working on outputting the .SET file from the
screen design data.  It's a long job.

ETA is soon,  but I am unable to estimate because I
keep running into things that I've missed.  I had a chat with
Art,  and as a result discovered a few items that I had either
forgotten to implement or simply implemented incorrectly,
so I've been busy addressing those issues.

With respect to grouping,  a screen design application
simply doesn't require that level of functionality.
Persitent grouping is great for complex drawings,
but screens don't fall into that category.



regards

Stan.
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: ynneb on March 22, 2007, 10:15:40 PM
Hey Stan, is there any thing we can do to help? Its been a while since we have heard from you. I am sure your designer is going to be the number one tool, and highly welcomed by many.
Let us know if you need anything.
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on March 23, 2007, 10:58:27 AM
Sorry Everybody,

I have been away the last week in the US on business.  (I also have a day job).
Will report some news soon.

best regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: Boros on April 09, 2007, 11:05:20 PM
Hi There Stan

It has been over 2 weeks without an update. Can we get one plz?

I personally am very interested in this screen designer.
I downloaded the version currently available and tried it.
What I was able to do was very impressive.

I can't wait for the next version.
Reading through this thread makes me salivate.

Keep up the good work.

If you need some one to beta it for you, I'm here. ;D

Thanx

Shaun
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on April 09, 2007, 11:22:39 PM
Hi Shaun,
I am working to get this thing finished as an initial release,
but it's taking considerably more time than I expected.
I cannot use code from the existing editor because this
new one works completely differently.

Since I am currently working on the code that outputs
MACH .Set and .LSet files,  there really isn't anything to
show at this time.  Images are the biggest problem
at the moment.

I will let everyone know when a test version is ready
for anyone that wants to test it and give feedback while
I create the manual.


Passwords :
One thing that is new is the support for screen
passwords.  If you create a password for a screen,
then the screen cannot be edited unless you
know the password. The difference between this
editor and the Screen3,  is that passwords are stored
encrypted.  This means that you will not be able to
edit screen files produced using this new editor with
Screen 3 or Screen 4.

 

Best regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: Scott on May 06, 2007, 12:56:53 PM
Hi Stan,

Any word on the screen designer?   ;)

Regards,
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on May 17, 2007, 04:50:46 AM
Hi All,

I sincerely appologize for the current lack of progress.
I am still working on MACH ouptut rendrer,  but am having
less time to spend on personal projects.

I am currently thinking of releasing a preliminary version
of the editor that will let you create new screens and
edit existing screens,  BUT will not let you save a version
you can use in MACH.

This will let you get familiar with the editor while I complete the
MACH output routines.  Once completed,  you'll be able to fully
save any work you've already done in the new editor as proper
MACH screens.

This would also give me an opportunity to get some feedback
and ideas for feature additions and improvements.

What do you think?


regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: Chaoticone on May 17, 2007, 10:10:50 AM
I think that is a great idea Stan. Lots of people are salivating.  ;D

Brett
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: Scott on May 17, 2007, 10:29:28 AM
Sounds good to me too!   ;)
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on May 18, 2007, 02:38:44 AM
Hi All,

I've got a new site for the editor,  and I'm just waiting for
it to propogate so I can post a link to the editor.
I've been told this may take a day or two.

regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on May 18, 2007, 06:56:46 AM
Hello All,

Pre-release version of my screen designer is available from the link below :
http://sanologic.net/MSD/MSD.zip

Post any queries or questions here.  I may create short videos or simply
answer queries (or both) - depending on the query.

There is no manual yet,  so your queries will help me determine
important content for the manual.

BEFORE INSTALLING
Read the Readme.txt file found in the zip.
It might be a good idea to backup your screens and
maybe MACH 3 also.

regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: ynneb on May 18, 2007, 06:57:02 AM
Stan there is no reason you cant upload to any thread you post in.
Just so you know.
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on May 18, 2007, 07:15:11 AM
Hi Benny,

I'm not sure what you mean.
I don't know much about forums so sorry for my ignorance.

regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: davidimurray on May 21, 2007, 10:14:29 AM
Hi Stan

Firstly, thanks for all your hard work on the screen designer. THings are a bit hectic for me at work at the moment, but while some of my data is being analysed I thought I would have a quick play.

I think I've broken it already!
I opened a new project - I like the interface. Then a new screen. Not sure if images should work yet as per your readme so I thought I would try a plain background image. selected the image I wanted, and it showed up in the preview. Hit ok and nothing happened. As that didn't seem to work, I tired adding a button to the screen. However whatever i try, clicking, draggin etc, I get the message "Canvas Does Not Allow Drawing"

Am I going wrong somewhere?

Cheers

Dave
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: davidimurray on May 21, 2007, 10:15:27 AM
Hi Stan

Firstly, thanks for all your hard work on the screen designer. THings are a bit hectic for me at work at the moment, but while some of my data is being analysed I thought I would have a quick play.

I think I've broken it already!
I opened a new project - I like the interface. Then a new screen. Not sure if images should work yet as per your readme so I thought I would try a plain background image. selected the image I wanted, and it showed up in the preview. Hit ok and nothing happened. As that didn't seem to work, I tired adding a button to the screen. However whatever i try, clicking, draggin etc, I get the message "Canvas Does Not Allow Drawing"

Am I going wrong somewhere?

Cheers

Dave
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on May 21, 2007, 11:24:47 AM
Hi David,

You definately found a problem there and I'll look into it.
I am still having some real problems dealing with images since having to
include PNG support.

You could try to load an existing MACH screen project or wizard.
That should get you started to get familiar with the editor.

I will look into the screen background image problem and
post an update as soon as time allows.

regards

Stan






Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on May 21, 2007, 12:23:38 PM
Hi All,

The problem Dave found has been fixed and an updated
version can be obtained from the following link.

http://Http://sanologic.net/MSD/MSD.zip

Regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on May 21, 2007, 02:27:25 PM
Dave,

Another way to assign an image to the screen background
(for example when loading an existing MACH screen) is to
double click the image on the screen,  and then in the
image properties dialog,  click the [Assign to Screen Background] button.

What this does,  is it destroys the image item,  and assigns the bitmap to the
screen background property.  This method saves a bit of time when working
with existing MACH screens.

As mentioned in my previous post,  I have fixed the problem you found,
and a new download is available.

Regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: davidimurray on May 21, 2007, 03:05:52 PM
Hi Stan

Thanks for the fix. I've just had another quick look and noticed a couple of other things -

1) When I apply the background image it doesn't appear until I click on the backdrop - but only sometimes! Other times it just pops up fine.
2) If I set some DRO's on the screen, then decide to skin them, on selecting the skin and exiting the dialog, the DRO jumps to the mouse and drags around. This could be a pain if you wanted to re-skin existing DRO's - you would have to re-align every one.

3) The transparent dragging is really good - i like it a lot!
4) Where the screen explorer is on the right, is there a plan to have preview images there, or even some text to describe each screen?

I gotta say I am looking forward to using this editor in anger - owww, just found button shine, so many tys to play with  ;D

Cheers

Dave
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on May 21, 2007, 03:39:14 PM
Hi David,

When I apply the background image it doesn't appear until I click on the backdrop
I'll look into it.  I don't see that problem here.


If I set some DRO's on the screen, then decide to skin them, on selecting the skin and exiting the dialog,
the DRO jumps to the mouse and drags around.


I'll look into it.  There is a Lock button on the toolbar.  Use this to lock all the items
so they can't be moved when you want to select and edit properties.


The transparent dragging is really good - i like it a lot!

Yes,  it helps to "see" the item while your dragging.


Where the screen explorer is on the right, is there a plan to have preview images there,
or even some text to describe each screen?


Absolutely.  But right now,  I am struggling to just get basic editing working.
Image handling is going to have to completely change and I have to finish
the MACH file format output generator.

Don't forget,  if you set up an item (or items),  you can drag them off your screen
and into the items palette (Tree) on the Left of the editor screen.
The editor will make copies and permanently store those for you for use on
other screens and/or projects.

For example,  if you have a nice generic button or something like that,
you should add it to your palette.  The palette displays your custom
items gray (normal items are always blue).  Note : Make sure you
drop your item(s) into the right group.


Regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: davidimurray on May 22, 2007, 05:20:01 AM
Hi Stan

Lock Button

I've had a play with this. Personally, I would prefer the functionality to be slightly different. I think it will be rather cumbersome to keep locking and unlocking everytime you want to edit the properties. Would it be possible to be able to lock each screen 'feature' individually. I am thinking of situations of where you may want to put two object close together, or on top of each other.

Items Palette
Added the custom button to the palette and retrieved it - great feature. My only concern is with organisation. Is there any way we can control the tree structure and add more branches? Say for example I have 5 sets of stop buttons, 5 start buttons, jog buttons etc I can see the current button branch becoming enormous. It would nice to be able to create a further set of branches, so it would look like -
Button
Button
Image Button
-Start Buttons
     Start 1
     Start 2
     Start 3
- Jog Buttons
     -Set 1
             Up
             Down
     - Set 2
             Big Up


Etc
hopefully you get the idea

Screen Explorer
Is there a way to copy a screen ? I often use the same master screen and copy the contents to a new page, With your explorer I think it would be easier to copy the whole page?

How's the work going with the graphics ? When I get some time I will try and look at using the designer in some form of anger.

Cheers

Dave
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on May 22, 2007, 05:53:28 AM
Hi David,

Lock Button


The functionality you are asking for will be added as an additional feature rather
than a replacement for the existing global locking funtionality.  Can't say when
though.


Items Palette

The items palette will almost certainly be improved in the future.


Is there a way to copy a screen?

Absolutely.  Select the screen background so that no items are selected.
(This de-selects any selected items).  Do this by clicking the background
of the screen with the mouse.

Then...
Press Ctrl-C to copy the entire screen to the windows clipboard.
Press Ctrl-V to paste the copied screen as a new screen.

This should also work across projects.



Regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: davidimurray on May 22, 2007, 06:28:08 AM
Stan

Lock button
Great!

Items Palette
Great!

Copying Screens
Just tried it and it works fine. One other thing that pops to mind. You can give each screen a number - what about tab for jogging controls?

Cheers

Dave
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on May 22, 2007, 06:49:00 AM
Hi Dave,

what about tab for jogging controls?


I have no idea what you mean.

regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: davidimurray on May 22, 2007, 07:07:59 AM
Hi Stan

Regarding jogging controls I just realised that everything will be ok.

If your not familiar with Mach, then you can hit Tab which brings out a small screen to the right, actually just shows a certain width from the left of a full screen. Having checked with the old screen designer, it seems that this must be asigned to screen 50, so as long as the editor can allow screen 50 to exist then everything should be ok.

Cheers

Dave
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: ynneb on May 23, 2007, 06:41:53 PM
From memory the Tab Jogging is screen number 50
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: Greolt on June 10, 2007, 06:20:36 AM

As a Mach user newly trying to make my own screen design I have just read through this thread.

I had actualy read some of it before but then it was all gobbldeygook.  ;D 

Now having played with Screen4 a bit I understand what is being discussed a little better.


So how is it all going?  Any more progress?

Great job so far Stan.  Looking forward to putting it to use.  :D

Greg
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: Greolt on July 11, 2007, 04:56:38 AM

I don't want to be rude or pushy but can I ask is this screen designer still happening?

It would still be a really good thing.  I would love to be able to use it.

Screen4 is limited and not everyone is rushing to flash.  We're not all smart enough.  ;D

Greg
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on July 12, 2007, 09:54:03 AM
Hi Greg,

Yes the screen editor is happening.  I started it at a time when I had alot of free time available,  but lately I have been extremely busy working.  As a programmer,  I don't work normal hours so I hope you understand.  Currently I am on vacation,  so I have free time.  I will be in Spain next week and will begin 2 solid weeks of work to get this editor in a state that will allow you all to load,  edit and save mach screens.

I appologize for any inconvenience.

kindest regards

Stan.
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: PaulWC on July 12, 2007, 12:52:03 PM
Stan,

We expect all the time and urgency we are paying for!!! ;D

I hope you feel the appreciation so many of us have for your contribution.

Many thanks for all you are doing, Paul, Central OR
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: Greolt on July 12, 2007, 07:04:35 PM

Please don't apologize Stan.

I and many others really appreciate the time and effort you have put into this.

I was just a little worried that you may have thought that flash was becoming the method of choice so why bother.

Flash may be great but for ordinary Mach users like me  it's a bit too complex.  ;D

Screen4 for all it's frustrations is more my level.  Jetcam will be a real boon.

Greg
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on August 12, 2007, 01:02:09 PM
Hi Everyone,

I've been working hard to get the editor ready,  but am still having
some major problems.  Unfortunately,  my screens are crashing MACH3
after it loads them.  After a short while,  Windows then crashes also.

I am still working to find out why this is happening.

best regards

Stan.
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: davidimurray on September 24, 2007, 10:51:46 AM
Hey Stan

How are things. I've been soo busy making things recently I haven't been doing much Mach development! I was just wondering how things were getting on with the screen designer?

Cheers

Dave
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on September 24, 2007, 11:18:04 AM
Hi Dave,

I still have a fully loaded schedule and have had basically no time lately for the designer.
I am sorry to be letting you all down like this,  but right now,  there is nothing I can
do about it.  I will complete this designer if it kills me.

kindest regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: sd_cnc on September 29, 2007, 06:47:19 PM
Hi Stan,

What is your offline email address? I have a question for you.
Thanks,
Li (xinbingli@yahoo.com)
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: OzzieII on October 08, 2007, 09:48:13 AM
What is the latest version of the Jetcam designer?
Jery
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: OzzieII on October 08, 2007, 09:50:47 AM
The link on reply #130 doesn't work.
Jerry
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on October 08, 2007, 09:55:56 AM
Hello Ozzie,

The link was removed today.
That link points to the very original editor I wrote which is not the same as the
one I am currently building.

It was taken down at the request of a user who has problems due to some security
concerns.

Best Regards

Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: OzzieII on October 08, 2007, 10:54:12 AM
Hi Stan,
I appreciate your qick reply.
This thread is very long so I have not read it all.
In the past few days I've been using version 1.01 and it's great. I've been able to do just about everything I've wanted with a couple noted exceptions. One is a problem within Mach3 I think.
The one that you may be able to cure is that certain words when used as labels produce string results; I think Art calls them Smart Labels. I have several on my lset and they all work fine with the exception of "UNITREVMIN". This works in lsets created with Designer4 but not when I use your designer, so I think the difficulty must be something internal to your program.
I appreciate any light you can shed, and of course a fix would be fantastic!
Thanks in advance, and kudoos to you and your program.
Jerry "Ozzie" Pryor
Old Curmudgeon
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: RandomAccess on October 08, 2007, 11:42:04 AM
Hi Jerry,

Thanks for your kind words.
I have been and will continue to be in contact with Art concerning these types of issues.

The screen editor version 1.01 was my first attempt at writing an editor for MACH and
I found it was not good enough.  A superior version is currently under development which
is what all the latest posts from me are about.

Unfortunately,  this new version will not initially be able to load screens developed in the
1.01 version because internally they are completely different.

The new version does handle smart labels and I received a list of these from Art some time ago and
already integrated them.

I am desperately trying to get the new version released to all you guys out there,  but my current
workload is crazy at the moment - and it's been like that for months.

I will let you all know as soon as I have something for you to try.

kindest regards


Stan
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: Chaoticone on October 08, 2007, 12:31:21 PM
Thanks Stan,
     I'm looking forward to it as well, but understand you have a job to do too. We all have to make a living. I have no doubt it will be worth the wait.

Brett
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: manos3 on September 15, 2015, 03:29:42 AM
Hello,

   the company i work for have a punching machine and we use Jetcam in order to do the tooling. We had a round 10mm tool on amultitool and recently we bought a 10mm tool for a single station. Is there a way that i can decide when to use each tool?

   So far whenever i have a 10mm punch Jetcam "decides" to use the multitool...

   Best regards,
      manos
Title: Re: List of Jetcam requests :)
Post by: ger21 on September 15, 2015, 07:09:46 AM
Wrong Jetcam I think