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General CNC Chat => Show"N"Tell ( Your Machines) => Topic started by: JHChoppers on September 08, 2011, 11:52:50 AM

Title: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on September 08, 2011, 11:52:50 AM
We just picked up this 1997 DM4800.  All the parts are present however the machine does not fully function.  Tool changer has issues and Y thrusts bearing was worked on before we got it.  The way covers have been removed where the work to Y Axis was performed and there is surface rust everywhere.  Not to sure DYNA MYTE machines, however it has large boxed ways, monster ball screws, 32 x 20 x 20 travel, 24 ATC and weighs in at 11,400 lbs!

Going through the electronics now to see what I can reuse and what I need to replace. 

Currently we are working on the coolant tanks and chip pans, adding new casters and Teflon sliders to ease moving them around.  Checking for leaks and repairing as needed.

JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: manmeran on September 08, 2011, 12:22:22 PM
woow .very interesting
I always love your changes on the machine.
Amir
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: ostie01 on September 08, 2011, 04:25:17 PM
WOW,

I see another long and interesting tread with lots of pictures and even some video.

Jeff
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Hood on September 09, 2011, 03:29:36 AM
Looks like a nice sold machine, never knew Dyna Myte made big machines.
Looking forward to seeing the progress.
Hood
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on September 09, 2011, 10:36:32 AM
There are 4 parts to the coolant system, 2 chip pans and 2 coolant pans.  The coolant pans sit on the floor and contain the coolant while the chip pans have casters and roll in and out from under the VMC. 

Overall the chip pans were in good shape.  The caster needed to be replaced and the dents were hammered out, then degreased, sanded and ready for paint.
 
I am starting here first so we can get the heights of all this figured out before we level out the machine IRON and the sheet metal enclosure.

JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on September 09, 2011, 12:11:08 PM
Looks like a nice sold machine, never knew Dyna Myte made big machines.
Looking forward to seeing the progress.
Hood

Hood this thing is a beast ! 

BTW: What type of PLC do you use again for your I/O ?  I am looking for a better way to control my signal to noise ratio

Thanks,
JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Hood on September 09, 2011, 01:42:57 PM
I use the DL06 PLC from Automation Direct, specifically the D0-06DR model.
Hood
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: A1CNC on September 11, 2011, 12:24:15 AM
Have you moved the Z all the way up yet? It doesn't look like you would have enough clearance above it for 20" of Z!

There is a guy on cnczone (caprirs) who used to work for Dyna Mechtronics and He seems to know alot about them.

I am guessing you have the Meldas 2 or 3 on this machine. I think all the DM4800's I have seen have had rigid tapping on them.

Nice machine and I know it will be even nicer once you are done with it!
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on September 12, 2011, 10:36:18 AM
Have you moved the Z all the way up yet? It doesn't look like you would have enough clearance above it for 20" of Z!

There is a guy on cnczone (caprirs) who used to work for Dyna Mechtronics and He seems to know alot about them.

I am guessing you have the Meldas 2 or 3 on this machine. I think all the DM4800's I have seen have had rigid tapping on them.

Nice machine and I know it will be even nicer once you are done with it!

I haven't moved the Z up yet, but my calculations indicate it should fit with about 4 inches to spare.  Thanks for the tip about the zone.  I think it will be very nice when its done too as the machine core is very solid.  The Meldas M3 is a good control, but I like the customization ease of Mach3 ... tool probe, 4th axis and being able to fit things when they break.  

I should be able to reuse the logic from the BP412 VMC Project for the Tool Changer, Tool Probe and User Interface to get this up and running.

Attached are specs that I used for the height calculations

Thanks
JH

Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: A1CNC on September 12, 2011, 11:34:20 AM
I agree about the customization ability on Mach. 

I have (3) machines with Mitsubishi controls, (2) with the MO control, and (1) with the 520AMR. If I didn't use them constantly i would love to retro the MO machines to Mach.

If the DM has mitsu brushless motors/drives on it, you may be able to re-use those.

BTW,
Have you run any serious 3d code on the BP412?
Title: Servo Investigation
Post by: JHChoppers on September 12, 2011, 12:31:18 PM
I would very much like to reuse the Mitsubishi AC Servos and Drivers, but the MR-S3 system uses Address and Data lines (memory mapped I/O I guess) to connect/interface to it and it performs the interpolation of for the Axis’s during movement.  Short term I’ll try to find a different but compatible AC Servo Driver that will drive the existing AC Servos.

We have been running some 3D code to make matching press plates, I’ll dig up some photos when I can on that.

JH
Title: Coolant and Chip Pans, Machine Level
Post by: JHChoppers on September 16, 2011, 10:44:00 AM
Finished up the coolant and chip pans, I added Teflon feet to the coolant pans so they can slide in and out for maintenance (shown below upside down).  Had to weld up a couple of weak spots, then degreased, sanded and painted. 

The machine IRON is now level.  I removed the doors and started to level the sheet metal enclosure.  It looks like some of the enclosure bolts have sheered off during shipment so I will have to address this. 

JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: manmeran on September 16, 2011, 11:09:09 AM
this machine made in 1997 . do you test rail for wobble and ballscrew for backlash?
Amir
Title: Tear Down and Inspect
Post by: JHChoppers on September 16, 2011, 11:18:53 AM
Pulled off the remaining sections of the Y way covers, the last owner indicated repair work on the trust bearing.  Moving things by hand, I can not feel any backlash, so I am optimistic it has been repaired.  When it’s up and running under Mach control, I’ll check it completely out.  The Y ways and ball screw look good, big and beefy too.

Pulled the cover off the ATC, it needs some lube on the ram.  24 tools will be great to have !

JH
Title: Tear Down and Inspect…Continues
Post by: JHChoppers on September 19, 2011, 01:50:34 PM
I removed the plastic windows from of the sheet metal enclosure so they can be polished up like new.  I then welded up the section that was damaged during shipping and leveled off the enclosure. 

Removed both of the X Axis covers to inspect the ways and ball screw, overall, things look good here.  The X Axis was very stiff at first, the oil was sticky and dry.  Got things cleaned and lubed up, now it slides with ease.  The Home and Limits switch assembles are functional and reusable.

Removed all the surface rust from the face of the table and placed a heavy coat of oil on it. 

Pulled the spindle cover off for inspection of the draw bar and spindle motor.

Thanks,
JH
Title: Tear Down and Inspect…Complete
Post by: JHChoppers on September 27, 2011, 08:52:57 AM
We finished removing the components from electronics cabinet and the user interface control from the front.  The control stuck out about 2.5 feet and would hit the doors and windows.  The plan moving forward will be to create a new then control box that mounts to the top of the machine and hangs down, something that would not block the doors either.  Also, I do not want to run the User Interface Control wires next to the Y Axis Servo Power and Feedback.

The only thing remaining to remove is the 5 year old boy who thinks this is his new play house… 

Thanks
JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: budman68 on September 27, 2011, 10:16:09 AM
Quote
The only thing remaining to remove is the 5 year old boy who thinks this is his new play house… 


Oh! That explains it, Joel, I thought you machined that little person!!!! I was thinking: "Wow, he's getting good at this stuff!!"

Nice work anyway....I guess.....   ;)
Dave
Title: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Fastest1 on September 29, 2011, 11:32:00 AM
Funny Dave!
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: budman68 on September 29, 2011, 07:05:50 PM
Thanks, John -  ;)
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: cnc-it on October 02, 2011, 11:23:11 AM
Looks a sturdy machine. As far as I know these are re-badged Leadwell machines. Correct me if i'm wrong!

Looks like a hefty spindle motor.
John
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on October 04, 2011, 05:36:00 PM
Looks a sturdy machine. As far as I know these are re-badged Leadwell machines. Correct me if i'm wrong!

Looks like a hefty spindle motor.
John

Its a beast for sure...  Thanks for the info on the re-badged, didn't know this but it gives me more options for spare parts. 

Thanks
JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: cnc-it on October 05, 2011, 06:27:27 AM
You're welcome...great project!
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: cnc-it on October 05, 2011, 06:45:08 AM
Is it 40 or 50 taper?
John
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on October 05, 2011, 11:02:00 AM
You're welcome...great project!

Did a little research, its looks like the Eumach VMC Model MC800P and the LEADWELL MCV-760 are the same CORE machines.  This is good news for me.   Thanks again for the tip!

Thanks
JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on October 05, 2011, 11:02:48 AM
Is it 40 or 50 taper?
John

CAT 40, looking for pull stub info now....
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: cnc-it on October 05, 2011, 04:33:52 PM
No problem Jh I've noticed your machine had the spindle off centre ln the head casting...the old hurcos were just like this and they were made by leadwell.
John
Title: Core Electronics
Post by: JHChoppers on October 06, 2011, 02:42:49 PM
Been working on the core electronics for the machine…  PC with XP, Dual Parallel Ports, Break Out Boards, ModBus IO, Charge Pump, Solid State Relays, Power Supplies, Fuses and Power Strips. 

The charge pump circuit with eStop is the first item and is up and running.  I cleaned the lube pump guts and fixed the lube low/alarm switch!  It’s now connected to the eStop circuit so the pump only runs when the system is “READY” and will light an LED on the main screen when the lube is low.

Thanks,
JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Hood on October 07, 2011, 04:51:45 PM
Are you going to be using the PP? What drives will you be using?
Hood
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Druid on October 07, 2011, 06:13:02 PM
JH are you going to use a PLC for the ATC this time or are you happy with the approach you used on your previous mill?

I appreciate you taking the time to post your efforts not only because it helps others to learn but because it is inspires many
people to complete their retrofits.

Keith
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on October 07, 2011, 06:13:36 PM
Are you going to be using the PP? What drives will you be using?
Hood

The plan is to use the Parallel Ports (PP) for the real-time I/O (Step/Dir on XYZA, Home and Limit Switches, MPG Inputs, … ).  The signal to noise ratio is not the best with these but I will be able to over come this as before.  I did look into the PLC stuff, but at the last minute I decided to stay in my comfort zone and go with PPs.  Also, I have a lot of code and state machine logic that can be reused in VB, thinking this might save me some time if I stay with PP.

I did add a Modbus serial I/O card for the none real-time I/O (ATC, Lube Pump Control and Monitor, Spindle RUN, FWD, REV,  … ), its has 12 Inputs, 12 Outputs and some ADC inputs and DAC outputs as well.

For the drives, I am currently evaluating some AC Brushless Servo Drives from Mach Motion.  I still need to get some more of basic electronic core in place to dynamically tune them on the system unload a load.

Thanks
JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on October 07, 2011, 06:17:27 PM
JH are you going to use a PLC for the ATC this time or are you happy with the approach you used on your previous mill?

I appreciate you taking the time to post your efforts not only because it helps others to learn but because it is inspires many
people to complete their retrofits.

Keith

I like the logic and control in the control itself.  VB is easy to use and it provides access to all the core internals of Mach (ie eStop, User Interface Input, logging, ect )  For me, its easier to do it in VB M6Start.m1s and other Macros than a PLC ladder diagram.

Glad this helps,
JH

Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: manmeran on October 08, 2011, 02:23:42 AM
fot toolchange if you can use PLC, i think is better and safer
mach run in windows and it not safe %100

Amir
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Hood on October 08, 2011, 04:00:48 AM
I would think if you are using the PP then you will either have to use either electronic gearing in your drives or low count encoders on your motors. I personally would use an external device as it would mean pulserates would not be limited as with the PP.

As for VB versus PLC Ladder, personally ladder for me is much easier and much more powerful. Obviously macros are  still needed to talk to the PLC but they will be simpler affairs.

Hood
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on October 08, 2011, 01:56:16 PM
fot toolchange if you can use PLC, i think is better and safer
mach run in windows and it not safe %100

Amir


If your worried about windows mach3 and safety, then you shouldn't being using windows and mach3 for your axis control and user interface either.  Or mach3 at all ....  Just saying

Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: manmeran on October 08, 2011, 02:33:49 PM
the crash result in axis is for example :breaking tool (in addition,Finally drivers can stop axis with fault signal)
but in toolchange this result is very big and maybe Horrible accident
Amir
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: cnc-it on October 08, 2011, 06:42:13 PM
Well I can see Amirs point of view but i've found Mach to be very stable and have never had it lock up mid proramme.

I'm with Hood on moving away from the printer port. That machine will really move if you want it too plus with something like the Galil controller you would get the closed loop back similar to what the Meldas would have had.

That said you can close the loop in the drive on the modern Mitsubishi drives and they will take step and direction signals from the pp.

But as far as I know anything bigger than 1KW needs 3 phase in on the Mits!

Found these on ebay..

 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/120587634024?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Item number: 120587634024

They also do other sizes on there web sight.

John
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: cnc-it on October 08, 2011, 06:44:20 PM
Btw those flexi couplings on your motors cost an arm and a leg if you need to change to new motors with different shaft sizes...just thought i'de mention it!
John
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: manmeran on October 09, 2011, 10:56:08 AM
hi John
do you have any experience with Galil card+mach?
do we can to compare it with Meldas?

Amir
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: cnc-it on October 09, 2011, 02:31:55 PM
Hi Amir
I am working on a mach set up with galil and Mitsubishi servos for a small mill. Not at the powering up stage yet though.
Have used mach with steppers though and it works well.
My full size machines all have Fanuc 6. I have no experience with meldas but the industrial controls in my opinion are very robust and the software never let's you down.  In fact its as bullet proof as you can get.
Although my Fanuc controls can't cut as fast as mach without losing accuracy they are better at doing back lash comp and closing the servo loop. Same goes for the meldas I expect.
John
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: manmeran on October 09, 2011, 02:39:31 PM
john
about galil :Which series did you use?
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: cnc-it on October 09, 2011, 02:53:12 PM
Another thing about mach which can be a disadvantage is the way it homes. The big machines have a slow down sensor so you can  go at full rapid speed to this then slow down to a set speed to home the machine. Handy if you have big travels. Mach doesn't work with a slow down as far as I know.
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: cnc-it on October 09, 2011, 03:05:32 PM
Hi Amir
I'm using the older 2100 series which is on Ethernet. I would recommend an econo series for a new purchase. The latest accellera is the best card if money is no object.
John.
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on October 10, 2011, 12:17:57 PM
Another thing about mach which can be a disadvantage is the way it homes. The big machines have a slow down sensor so you can  go at full rapid speed to this then slow down to a set speed to home the machine. Handy if you have big travels. Mach doesn't work with a slow down as far as I know.

This would be easy to add to Mach3:  Move to you see the slow down sensor at a given feed rate, stop, then home at the slower rate.

Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: cnc-it on October 10, 2011, 12:56:53 PM
Yes might add that in once I get the machine up and running.
John.
Title: Minor Update
Post by: JHChoppers on October 12, 2011, 12:54:13 PM
With the basic core electronics functional, I started digging into the basic I/O of the machine.

The Y home switch was not functional only the limit switch was working.   I replaced it with the slow down sensor from Z (nice to have a spare…).  The entire housing was full of grease and grit, and the switch would not open.  Now the housing is clean, sealed and operational.  The X Y and Z Home switches are all functional and interfaced to Mach3, connected as Normally Closed for best noise immunity.

I had some issues with the M1 and M12 ModBus boards, I think it was the serial interface hardware that was not functional.  I have used CNC4PC products over the last 7 years and never have had an issue.  I talked Arturo Duncan and he is taking care of us.  I should have a functional ModBus I/O system up and running soon.  The ATC Pneumatics and Sensors will be hook up this I/O System, so for now the ATC is on hold. 

Thanks,
JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: manmeran on October 12, 2011, 05:24:50 PM
Hi Amir
I'm using the older 2100 series which is on Ethernet. I would recommend an econo series for a new purchase. The latest accellera is the best card if money is no object.
John.


i think for this time , Kflop is better . The same performance and lower price .
What do you think?

Amir
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: cnc-it on October 13, 2011, 03:45:49 AM
Hi Amir
Not sure about kflop as I have never used it.
John
Title: ATC Carousel AC Motor wiring
Post by: JHChoppers on October 13, 2011, 05:31:16 PM
The ATC Carousel only rotated in one direction as indicated by the previous owner.  This could be the AC Motor, Relays, Starting CAP or the Controller.  I wanted to make sure the AC Motor was functional as I plan to keep this and only replace the old relays and controller.

The ATC Carousel AC Motor has 4 leads on it, strange to me as most AC Motors only have 3 with a starting cap.  My guess is the motor manufacture exposed additional winding for a braking system.  After some internet digging and prototyping, the ATC Carousel AC Motor is now functional and rotates in both directions!    Attached is the schematic diagram I have come up with to make this functional.

However, the ATC Carousel index switch is bad and there is no home switch to indicated position 1.  The index switch will be replaced and a home switch will be added.

Thanks,
JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: A1CNC on October 13, 2011, 05:41:02 PM
HI JH,
Congrats on geting the toolchanger rotating!

I have (3) Vmc's with the carousel toolchanger and none of them have a home switch for #1 position. They rely on setting the carousel to the #1 position to start and a bit system to remember which tool is in the spindle.

Did you use a home switch on BP carousel?
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on October 13, 2011, 06:28:37 PM
HI JH,
Congrats on geting the toolchanger rotating!

I have (3) Vmc's with the carousel toolchanger and none of them have a home switch for #1 position. They rely on setting the carousel to the #1 position to start and a bit system to remember which tool is in the spindle.

Did you use a home switch on BP carousel?

Yes, the stock BP412 has a Home SW and an Index SW. 

After the conversion to Mach3, when the ATC is initialized, I have it programmed to find home first.  Then the home position is tracked. While the machine is running, its checked each time the carousel is moved.  It will eStop if it finds home when it should not be homed and if home is not found when it should.  Most of my coding has multiple saftey checks like this.

Thanks,
JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Matospeter on October 14, 2011, 02:19:49 PM
JH,
    Wow man you are simply getting WAY too good at this stuff.  You need to start a build a CNC machining center class or something....haha I would be in the front row dude!!  Nice looking machine you have there. I have seen a couple of them come and go for good prices but knew nothing about them.  Good luck on this build, I doubt you will need it. Peace

Pete
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on October 14, 2011, 07:47:12 PM
JH,
    Wow man you are simply getting WAY too good at this stuff.  You need to start a build a CNC machining center class or something....haha I would be in the front row dude!!  Nice looking machine you have there. I have seen a couple of them come and go for good prices but knew nothing about them.  Good luck on this build, I doubt you will need it. Peace

Pete


Thanks Pete !  It's a beast, got the Y axis moving today ...  It's been 2 steps forward and 1 step back on this project.
Title: ATC Carousel Update
Post by: JHChoppers on October 17, 2011, 12:39:22 PM
The ATC Carousel circuit was constructed and installed into the machine.  Wrote some test macros to verify that Mach3 can rotate the carousel in both directions using the DIR and ON/OFF control lines.

The INDEX switch has been added and a new flag was tack welded to the rotating motor plate.  I made the flag long enough to indicate that the entire range is a valid INDEX position while allowing the motor to decelerate and stop from both directions.  The HOME switch has been mounted but the HOME flag needs to be constructed and attached.  Once the sensors are installed, the BP412 Carousel Code will be modified to support 24 positions and tested.

Thanks
JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Druid on October 17, 2011, 08:43:29 PM
JH are you using Modbus and a VB script to enact tool changes? Or?
Thanks!
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on October 18, 2011, 02:20:50 PM
Yes, VB script for the logic and error handling.  I plan to use both PP I/O and some ModBus I/O for this DM4800 project.  Any I/O will work as long as you can write a macro to access the hardware.

I have attached my M6Start Macro that I used on a BridgePort 412.  I plan to use this and modify it for the DM4800.  

If it works for you, then I'll take credit, if it doesn't work, I didn't write it :)

Thanks,
JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Druid on October 18, 2011, 07:27:08 PM
Many Thanks! I have so much to learn. It is overwhelming. Having a hard time even picking a place to start on my machine.

Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: wayne4207 on October 28, 2011, 08:32:43 PM
HELP     
i just purchused a dm4500 1995  im having trouble getting this machine to do anything in mdi memory.I can zero return it i think but thats it ive talk to the original owner it was running about 4 months ago replace the battery and restarted the process really need help im in ma.   NEED HELP


WAYNE

508 6413239
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on October 28, 2011, 09:13:12 PM
HELP     
i just purchused a dm4500 1995  im having trouble getting this machine to do anything in mdi memory.I can zero return it i think but thats it ive talk to the original owner it was running about 4 months ago replace the battery and restarted the process really need help im in ma.   NEED HELP


WAYNE

508 6413239

You try the zone for help.

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/dyna_mechtronics/

Thanks,
JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: wayne4207 on October 28, 2011, 09:43:59 PM
yes i have no luck yet.I used to fanuc and yasnac controls (robo drills matsuura)this a little different than what im used to
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: cnc-it on October 30, 2011, 01:22:18 PM
Hi Wayne can you check if it's stuck in manual mode. Might be a bad start switch or auto/manual switch. Or a feed hold switch stuck on?

Faulty contacts on switches are a good place to start...if it's been sat idle for some months the contacts can corrode with the damp..or the switch contacts simply wear out on older machines. You can usually check them in the diagnostics screen.

John

Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: wayne4207 on October 30, 2011, 07:34:22 PM
well ive look over the machine for what u had suggested look at seems ok.I made a quick program and ran it, ok but when it goes to tool change the turret comes over head goes up about .100th then mo1 feed hold im not sure if there is a parameter that i can change to adjust to get this head to go higher.i also need to change mm. to inch any help on those to questions.
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: cnc-it on October 31, 2011, 04:58:47 AM
Hi i'm not familiar with the parameters on this control but i'm sure it will be in the manual if you have one. Strange that it would need changing though unless you have reloaded the parameters for some reason. Does it alarm out when it sticks on the tool change?
John
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: wayne4207 on November 01, 2011, 07:48:00 PM
john

when it goes into a tool change it alarms out alarm 1 = t2 mo1 alarm 0007      alarm 2 = 0202 not sure what they mean any idear.

wayne
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: A1CNC on November 01, 2011, 11:24:12 PM
Go to this link to download the manauals for your machine. I believe you said you have the M3 control.

http://www.meau.com/eprise/main/sites/public/Downloads/-search_results?SType=3&DocType=010&SessionNum=&UserID=&Division=00010&Opt1=Yes&submit1=Search&Family=0001010005&Series=000101000510037&Line=&ManualType=

I have talked with the service guys at Mitsu and they are great. I have received free over the phone service from them.
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: cnc-it on November 03, 2011, 07:14:30 PM
Sorry Wayne no idea on Dyna Myte control I only have Fanuc! Good luck with the manuals they should be a big help.

John
Title: ATC Screen and Macros
Post by: JHChoppers on November 07, 2011, 02:51:08 PM
Progress was made on the ATC Screen and Macros, it now supports 24 tools.  The INC and DEC carousel position macros are complete.  The INIT ATC Macro is functional as it finds home, but still needs the ATC RAM and Spindle Drawbar functionality before it’s completed.

I did get my Modbus I/O M1 and M12 boards up and running with the help Arturo (user error on my part).  They are now controlling the outputs for the solenoids of the RAM, Drawbar and Air Blast and are monitoring the home and extended switches.  These should be integrated into the Macros shortly so the ATC INIT Macro can be 100% completed.

INC and DEC Macros Attached

Thanks
JH
Title: AC Test Servo
Post by: JHChoppers on November 07, 2011, 02:59:55 PM
Our new test servo from Mach Motion just showed too.  This is the HIGH torque version, 85in/LB holding with 254in/LB Peak, 1000W AC Servo…   I hope to have some good news on this real soon.

Thanks,
JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Hood on November 09, 2011, 09:08:53 AM
Our new test servo from Mach Motion just showed too.  This is the HIGH torque version, 85in/LB holding with 254in/LB Peak, 1000W AC Servo…   I hope to have some good news on this real soon.

Thanks,
JH


Working that out with the Torque and KW thats about 1000rpm rated speed?
What are you using that for?
Hood
Title: Speed – Torque Curves
Post by: JHChoppers on November 09, 2011, 11:53:40 AM
Hood, I plan to use these for the XYZ axis.

The ball screws are 10mm/turn and have a direct connection to the motor shaft (1:1 drive ratio).  Therefore the higher torque 1000RPM servos were picked to evaluate.  At 1000 RPMs the max travel speed calculates to 393.7 IPM which is fast enough for my application. 

According to Speed – Torque curves, the Torque falls off at 1500 RPMs which calculates to 590 IPM and that would be great for my rapids if this works out!

Thanks
JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: cnc-it on November 09, 2011, 01:44:45 PM
I have a similar size vmc. It uses 2000rpm 8nm  servos geared at 2:1 with pulleys and 10mm pitch 32mm diameter ball screws. Just as a reference.
John.
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Hood on November 10, 2011, 06:15:55 AM
Wonder why they are rating at  1KW/1000rpm as clearly it shows 1500rpm continuous  which would work out to 1.5/1.6KW approx. Maybe it is the drive that is limiting the speed?


Hood
Title: 1000W 1000RPM Servo
Post by: JHChoppers on November 14, 2011, 03:56:54 PM
Good news, the guys at MachMotion were able to help with the tuning of the 1000W 1000RPM AC Servo System.  They were very professional and knowledgeable of these TECO Servos and from the looks inside their shop, they have all kinds of cool stuff in the works.

I placed the table to the far right for max load on the Y axis for my testing, with only a view additional tweaks to the parameters, I was able to move Y Axis at 520IPM.  We still have some minor tuning to do.  The plan moving forward is to reuse the same parameters for the X and Z Axis.  Below is the first video showing of the testing on the Y Axis.

http://www.youtube.com/v/D6XgBxpQ4Pc&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1

Thanks
JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Matospeter on November 16, 2011, 06:13:23 PM
JH,
    Hey man that is looking BEEFY!!   So those are new motors them?   I love the looks of the dual  ways underneath that table. This should be a real stout machine when it is finished. So are you using MACHmotion parts or control on this machine?   They seem to have nice stuff but it is expensive...   You mentioned Teco drives, that is the servo drives for the axes right, I have had very good luck with my Teco Sensorless Vector drive here especially since it is under modbus control. I would not hesitate to  buy their products again. If you are indeed looking at new servos and drivers for each axis, about how much money per axis are you into it for?  I am watching and learning here man and hope to someday follow in your prodigious footsteps with my own VMC conversion.  It sure does look like a lot of work tho.  Good luck with this baby and I cannot wait to see some videos of cool parts being machined on it. Peace my friend...

Pete
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: cnc-it on November 16, 2011, 11:58:52 PM
Looks great JH. How do the new motors compare to the originals speed and torque wise. They look smaller but the newer motors can produce more power from a smaller frame size I presume.

John.
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on November 18, 2011, 01:47:53 PM
JH,
    Hey man that is looking BEEFY!!   So those are new motors them?   I love the looks of the dual  ways underneath that table. This should be a real stout machine when it is finished. So are you using MACHmotion parts or control on this machine?   They seem to have nice stuff but it is expensive...   You mentioned Teco drives, that is the servo drives for the axes right, I have had very good luck with my Teco Sensorless Vector drive here especially since it is under modbus control. I would not hesitate to  buy their products again. If you are indeed looking at new servos and drivers for each axis, about how much money per axis are you into it for?  I am watching and learning here man and hope to someday follow in your prodigious footsteps with my own VMC conversion.  It sure does look like a lot of work tho.  Good luck with this baby and I cannot wait to see some videos of cool parts being machined on it. Peace my friend...

Pete




Pete,

Yes these are new TECO Servos with matching TECO drivers.   MachMotion is just the source that I decided to buy these from.   Each axis is about $1100 from MachMotion, about $100 less than other places when your just buying Servos and Drivers.  Also, I really like the fact that I can call or visit them if /when I have tuning issues or need other technical help.  You can get cheaper servo systems on eBay, but I’m not so sure about technical support, returns or warnetee from these systems.

I did pick up 2 more servo systems for the X and Z.  Just getting started on this… I should have all 3 Axis moving in a couple of days.

JH

Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on November 18, 2011, 02:10:05 PM
Looks great JH. How do the new motors compare to the originals speed and torque wise. They look smaller but the newer motors can produce more power from a smaller frame size I presume.

John.

John,

The new Servos and stock Servos are not 1:1  The stock ones are rated at 2000W a 17 N/m while the new ones are rated 1000W 9.5 N/m (28.6 N/m peak).  I have demonstrated that I can run them at 1300RPM without an issue and this agrees with the torque/speed chart thus pushing the wattage to ~1400W.  I am also counting on the fact that the engineering that went into the stock design was over designed by at least 25 percent. 

Only time will tell if I have chosen to small of motors for this Machine.  I think I am on target for my intended usage and duty cycle of the machine.

JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Hood on November 19, 2011, 11:29:45 AM
Sounds like they are working out well. I think you may be fine if its anything like my lathe, the motors on that were monstrous, cant remember  the exact specs but they were big.

What kind of accel are you getting out of the axis?
Hood
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Matospeter on November 23, 2011, 05:08:27 PM
JH,
    Man that is kinda steep  but quality costs sometimes. I assume these are mostly plug and play right so should be well worth it. Does it come with cabling and whatnot for it as well?  Are those motors coolant proof?  I guess $3300.00 for all three brand new motors and drivers ready to rock on a nice VMC like this will be money in the bank if you ever have a problem with any of them.   It really looks like the biggest difficulty of these conversions is the damn toolchanger huh. Gotta have it but all those sensors and logic settings are gonna be difficult and time consuming I would imagine.  You make this stuff look way too damn easy my friend.   BTW, I had a guy come to my shop today with a Harley Davidson and I tig welded some brackets he broke on his frame that hold the saddlebags and exhaust on. It was pretty cool and I thought of you and your cool Chopper shop while I was working on it. That was the FIRST Harley I have worked on... haha Peace

Pete

Title: Re: 1995 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: wayne4207 on November 27, 2011, 07:48:07 PM
Ive got a 1995 dm4500 w/ a m3 control  i m not sure if it can rigid tap.an or does anyone how to tap in this machine
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: cnc-it on November 28, 2011, 12:50:37 PM
Might be G84 that's pretty standard. Rigid tap is usually an option and requires an encoder either mounted on the spindle or on the spindle motor. Swap axis is common where the spindle axis becomes the x or y axis during the tapping cycle.
John.
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on November 28, 2011, 01:01:46 PM
Ive got a 1995 dm4500 w/ a m3 control  i m not sure if it can rigid tap.an or does anyone how to tap in this machine

Contact these guys, they are still supporting it. 
http://www.dynamechtronics.com/supports.html

Also, this is DM4800 to Mach3 conversion topic, I do not think you will find much information here about your DM4500 machine.

JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on November 28, 2011, 03:20:21 PM
Sounds like they are working out well. I think you may be fine if its anything like my lathe, the motors on that were monstrous, cant remember  the exact specs but they were big.

What kind of accel are you getting out of the axis?
Hood

Hood,

I have installed the X and Z Axis Servos and I am still playing the accelerations and servo tuning parameters.  My Mach3 acceleration has been all over from 30 to 80 in/sec depending on the servo parameters at the time.  I think in the video it was around 80 in/sec.

Do the X and Y need to be the same for the linear interpolation to function correctly?  I wasn't sure about that.  I have always had it the same on my other machines.

Thanks,
JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on November 28, 2011, 03:37:42 PM
JH,
    Man that is kinda steep  but quality costs sometimes. I assume these are mostly plug and play right so should be well worth it. Does it come with cabling and whatnot for it as well?  Are those motors coolant proof?  I guess $3300.00 for all three brand new motors and drivers ready to rock on a nice VMC like this will be money in the bank if you ever have a problem with any of them.   It really looks like the biggest difficulty of these conversions is the damn toolchanger huh. Gotta have it but all those sensors and logic settings are gonna be difficult and time consuming I would imagine.  You make this stuff look way too damn easy my friend.   BTW, I had a guy come to my shop today with a Harley Davidson and I tig welded some brackets he broke on his frame that hold the saddlebags and exhaust on. It was pretty cool and I thought of you and your cool Chopper shop while I was working on it. That was the FIRST Harley I have worked on... haha Peace

Pete




Pete,

Only money and free….  once I sell off the old motors and amplifier.  The Tool Changer is not hard, once the hardware is interfaced to Mach3 its all software that can be reused from the BP412 project.

I am glad to see you working on Harleys too :)

JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Hood on November 28, 2011, 05:26:17 PM

Do the X and Y need to be the same for the linear interpolation to function correctly?  I wasn't sure about that.  I have always had it the same on my other machines.

Thanks,
JH


No, Mach will compensate. I always think its best to get the accel as high as possible even if it means a wee bit off the rapids.
Hood
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Matospeter on November 30, 2011, 03:21:06 PM
JH,
   So you really think you will be close to breaking even when you sell the factory stuff on ebay or something?  that is amazing and very encouraging to me as well.  I know you got the BP running nice, have you made any cool stuff on it lately?  This current machine should be considerably more capable with power and travels I suppose but that BP sure came out nice. I looked into that one you zipped me a bit ago but I honestly want something with a little more travel.  Also it was not exactly close by.  The machine I will get is out there and I  am looking forward to it but I gotta be choosy here because I will only get one shot at it... haha peace

Pete

Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: METALTEK on December 19, 2011, 07:18:23 PM
Any updates?  ;D
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on January 17, 2012, 12:42:19 PM
Got some time to work on the mill again and did some additional servo tuning.  I think its solid now, strong and fast, 520IPM with 60 on the acceleration for X and Y.  So the XYZ is marked as completed, if I need to go back and tweak I can.  Below are the servos mounted on each Axis and a Video of all 3 of them in action. 

http://www.youtube.com/v/GUHi6zB0nkY&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0&color1=0x006699&color2=0x54abd6&border=1

Thanks
JH

Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on January 19, 2012, 04:01:01 PM
Well the ATC Motor and/or Circuit has failed...  I have a 5 AMP fuse for the AC side and this keeps popping, even when replaced with a 10 Amp.  The relays are also sparking like flash bulbs.  So, my plan moving forward is to replace the motor with a simple AC Motor and gear box.  I have pulled the old motor off and created an adapter to link the the new AC motor to the ATC  (15mm to 0.500 shafts).  Working on a new base plate for the now.  Hope to have this back up and running reliable soon.

Thanks,
JH
Title: ATC Motor Mount
Post by: JHChoppers on January 23, 2012, 10:30:59 AM
I got the new ATC Motor mount machined out this weekend.  The stock gear box is on the right and the new mount is on the left.  This will allow us to connect the new AC motor gear box combo to the ATC carousel hardware.  I should have it connected up and prototyped in a day or two.  Then create to final circuit and interface it to the ATC Macro and Mach Software.

Thanks
JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on January 24, 2012, 01:52:56 PM
The new AC motor gear box combo was installed onto the ATC carousel.  Bolted up nice and works great!  Tested it with an orange extension cable and was able to change directions depending on the starter cap connection.  Next step, create an interface circuit for Mach and test.  (should of done this the first time, spent way to much time on the stock 4 wire ATC motor…)

Thanks
JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on February 03, 2012, 10:45:42 AM
Got the new circuit built and installed to control/interface with Mach.  The ATC Carousel is now functional (again).  Initialization (find home), Increment and Decrement Macros are up and running.

The new 3/8 tubing and quick release pneumatic couplers have also been installed to fix all the air leaks.  New solid state relays are now controlling the 3 pneumatic solenoids for ATC RAM, Draw Bar and Tool Release/Air Blast.   The macros from the BP412 Project have been modified to work with ModBus for this control.  I’ll add some pics when I can.

Next up: Spindle FWD, REV, ON, OFF, SPEED Control and ATC Orientation

Thanks
JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on February 07, 2012, 05:17:35 PM
Just a quick update on the ATC Carousel, schematic attached.
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Druid on February 07, 2012, 07:47:21 PM
Joel,

Are you going to use a spindle mounted encoder to orient the spindle for the tool holder locking lugs or
are you planning on another method?
Thanks!

Keith
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on February 08, 2012, 10:44:05 AM
Joel,

Are you going to use a spindle mounted encoder to orient the spindle for the tool holder locking lugs or
are you planning on another method?
Thanks!

Keith



The current plan is to use the built-in encoder on the spindle motor with the stock FREQROL-SF VFD Drive.   

The original FREQROL-SF VFD had a SF-DA (Speed Reference and Magnesensor Card) to interface with stock MELSAS CNC Controller and stock Magnesensor.  Since the MELDAS CNC controller is being replaced with a Mach3 PC, this SF-DA interface card has been removed from the FREQROL-SF VFD SF-CA mother board and the Magnesensor will not be used. 

To date I have successfully removed the SF-DA card and updated the jumper settings and parameters on the SF-CA mother board to test the unit in a Stand-Alone Mode.  Using simple dip switches to test and interfaced to an old wire-harness, I can take the unit out of eStop to charge up the DC Bus and turn on the spindle fan, enable to unit, run forward/reverse, and adjust the speed with a 10K potentiometer. 

The same wire-harness has connections for spindle orientate switches and its position location is configurable with parameters on the FREQROL-SF VFD mother board.  I have not prototyped up the connections or studied the parameters to test.  I am hopeful that this will work…   I need to get a large block of time allocated to fully study this and test at one time.

Thanks
JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Druid on February 20, 2012, 06:37:25 PM
Joel,

Thank you for the explanation. It will really help me with my retrofit when I get to my ATC.

Keith
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Marty_Escarcega on April 29, 2012, 06:35:28 PM
Looks great JH. How do the new motors compare to the originals speed and torque wise. They look smaller but the newer motors can produce more power from a smaller frame size I presume.

John.

John,

The new Servos and stock Servos are not 1:1  The stock ones are rated at 2000W a 17 N/m while the new ones are rated 1000W 9.5 N/m (28.6 N/m peak).  I have demonstrated that I can run them at 1300RPM without an issue and this agrees with the torque/speed chart thus pushing the wattage to ~1400W.  I am also counting on the fact that the engineering that went into the stock design was over designed by at least 25 percent. 

Only time will tell if I have chosen to small of motors for this Machine.  I think I am on target for my intended usage and duty cycle of the machine.

JH

JH, I know this is a little old. But were you not able to use the original Servos? I understand these machines would do over 500ipm rapids with the stock Mitsubishi control.
I am looking at a 4500 which is a little bit smaller than yours. Same original control. I was hoping all the Axis Servo amps and spindle drive could be reused. My only issue is that I only have 240V single phase at home. I'd have to get a CNC Rotary phase converter, I know I can separate the CNC controls and run them on single phase but am concerned about running the original spindle drive/motor.

Advice?
Thanks
Marty
Mesa, AZ
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Marty_Escarcega on April 29, 2012, 07:19:40 PM
Curious JH, where are you with the progress of your DM 4800 conversion?
Thanks
Marty
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Hood on April 30, 2012, 03:11:34 AM
Marty you could reuse the original amps and motors if you used one of the controllers that can send out analogue commands.
DSPMC
CSMIO/IP-A
Galil
Kflop/Kanalog combination


Hood
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Marty_Escarcega on April 30, 2012, 10:19:07 AM
Marty you could reuse the original amps and motors if you used one of the controllers that can send out analogue commands.
DSPMC
CSMIO/IP-A
Galil
Kflop/Kanalog combination



Hood

Even with the Mitsubishi Servo amplifiers? Nothing special or.proprietery about them? The 4500 has the Mitsubishi Meldas Control.
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Hood on April 30, 2012, 10:36:56 AM
Most Industrial CNC mills/lathes etc require the control to output +-10v analogue command, the control receives position feedback from the motors encoder or resolver and the amplifiers need a speed command from the motor, often a tach or encoder.
If using one of the above they would put out the command voltage required by looking at the feedback. If your motors have resolvers then you would need to fit encoders as all of the aforementioned controllers require encoder feedback.
Hood
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Marty_Escarcega on April 30, 2012, 10:54:40 AM
Most Industrial CNC mills/lathes etc require the control to output +-10v analogue command, the control receives position feedback from the motors encoder or resolver and the amplifiers need a speed command from the motor, often a tach or encoder.
If using one of the above they would put out the command voltage required by looking at the feedback. If your motors have resolvers then you would need to fit encoders as all of the aforementioned controllers require encoder feedback.
Hood

Thanks. It makes it an easy decison if the Mitsubishi servo amps and Freqrol spindle drive take analog inputs. I'm not sure yet. That's why I was asking and noted JH replaced all of his amps and motors. I haven't taken possession of the machine yet.
Thanks
Marty
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Hood on April 30, 2012, 11:15:26 AM
If they dont take analogue commands then they will take Step/Dir which would make it very simple, that however is very unlikely.

Hood
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Hood on April 30, 2012, 11:18:07 AM
Some drives can accept different command inputs such as the modern AC Drives and the Allen Bradley ones  I use. They can either take analogue of follower signals (which include Step/Dir) but again it is unlikely yours will be able to accept Step/Dir and are more likely to be analogue only.
If you had the model numbers you should be able to get a manual and see.

Hood
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on April 30, 2012, 02:53:11 PM
Curious JH, where are you with the progress of your DM 4800 conversion?
Thanks
Marty

SLOW....  Been busy with other stuff.  

The servos could be reused but it was the amplifiers that could not.  So, for me, its easy to replace the servo and amplifier with a new matched set that has step/dir control from the get go.

Thanks
JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Hood on April 30, 2012, 02:56:33 PM
Why do you say they could not be reused?
Were they knackered or?
Hood
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on April 30, 2012, 03:58:09 PM
Why do you say they could not be reused?
Were they knackered or?
Hood

The drivers/amplifiers could not be reused for Mach3 (or at least with technical skills).  The Medas CNC controller interfaced to them over a address/data busl.  I could not remove the driver high speed electronics (encoder feedback) from the high power amplifier side. 

However, I was able to sell the the integrated 3 axis driver/amplifier on ebay and pay for 2 of new servo motors and drivers!  LOL
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Hood on April 30, 2012, 04:26:31 PM
Ok, looks like they are unusual then and likely no use for Marty to reuse. Did they only accept commands via that bus ?
Hood
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on April 30, 2012, 06:47:00 PM
Ok, looks like they are unusual then and likely no use for Marty to reuse. Did they only accept commands via that bus ?
Hood

His could be very different.  On the 4800 it used 2000W Servos, Meldas had other models that looked like they would work with Mach when I was looking/digging into my drivers.
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Hood on April 30, 2012, 06:50:29 PM
I know my friend has a big Mazak with Mits Amps and they are +-10v control but its old and I have no idea what model of Amps it has.
Suppose Marty will just have to get the model numbers and look and see.
Hood
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Marty_Escarcega on April 30, 2012, 08:24:11 PM
Thanks Guys, I could not get the left side of the electronic cabinet open but it appeared that the servo amplifiers are separate. I spoke with the company that bought the machine new in the mid 90's. They ran that machine 5 days a week and for a few years 24/7. He says it won't hold tolerance anymore. Upwards of .015" out of tolerance. They never replaced the ball screws or thrust bearings in the machine. He was running when removed from service, sat outside for up to 8 months with a tarp over it, until the tarp deteriorated. They were keeping it to support a couple other 4500's that they had.

JH, I noted it appeared that your thrust bearings were replaced at some point in its life. I wonder if this machine is worth pursuing. I can source the thrust bearings. But  think the screws or ball nuts maybe worn out. Not sure if this is worth pursuing. Further thoughts?

JH, my apologies, I hope you don't feel I hijacked your thread.
Marty
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Hood on May 01, 2012, 03:21:26 AM
If you can get it cheap enough then it still may be worth getting but really an inspection would be the only way to know. Chances are if the lube system was working then the screws will be ok and likely just the thrust bearings are needing replaced. Inspect the screws and see if they are pitted or look badly worn, if you can remove the motor and turn the screws by hand to see if they feel rough. If the screws are a bit worn it still may not be all bad as you can get them cleaned and reballed, the larger balls run on a different part of the ball track so should be on an unworn part. Having said that it all depends on the condition of the screws, if they are badly rusted then  it may be even reballing will be no use. Inspection is the only way to know for sure and getting at a cheap price (scrap value) is a must I would say.
Hood
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: cnc-it on May 01, 2012, 04:30:39 AM
Yes I agree with hood. Some of the ac motors on later machines had the motor commutation performed on the control motherboard using the encoder feedback. If an encoder went down it was impossible to have a motor run away as the control needed the encoder to command the motor rotation. The encoder signal was then used for positioning and speed at the drive.
The early Fanuc ac drives worked this way before they went digital.  On the digital Fanuc drives all the position speed and commutation was done on the control and the drive was just a dumb power supply for the motor.
John
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Marty_Escarcega on May 01, 2012, 08:09:01 PM
JH, how tall is the 4800 with the head all the way down? Will it fit through a 7' door?
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on May 01, 2012, 08:16:37 PM
JH, how tall is the 4800 with the head all the way down? Will it fit through a 7' door?


On the 4800, the Z Servo needs to be removed after the head is lowered.  Then it will fit under an 8 foot door.  Its BIG....  12,000 lbs too
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Marty_Escarcega on May 01, 2012, 08:32:23 PM
JH, how tall is the 4800 with the head all the way down? Will it fit through a 7' door?


On the 4800, the Z Servo needs to be removed after the head is lowered.  Then it will fit under an 8 foot door.  Its BIG....  12,000 lbs too

Hmm, the 4500 I'm looking at with the head up was 96". Did you mean 7' door? I went back to your first posts after I posted this message and saw your pictures moving it in the garage. It "looked" like you had 7' garage doors??

Edited:
Holy crap, the 4800 is much bigger than the 4500. I measured the 4500, its foot print is 7'x7' with the head up 8'. I think it is about 7K lbs.
It appears I struck a deal on the machine for near scrap value. All I can hope is that replacing the thrust bearings will help take some of the slop out of it. Then I might consider having the ball screws rebuilt or reballing the nuts.

Thanks JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on May 01, 2012, 08:53:51 PM
8 foot door for sure.  If your drives are 3 separate units, I think they can be configured for step dir.  This would save you a ton of time an money.

Find the specs on drivers, I'll help you find the data sheets.  I did hours and hours of research on all Mitsubishi drives.

Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Marty_Escarcega on May 01, 2012, 09:07:06 PM
8 foot door for sure.  If your drives are 3 separate units, I think they can be configured for step dir.  This would save you a ton of time an money.

Find the specs on drivers, I'll help you find the data sheets.  I did hours and hours of research on all Mitsubishi drives.


8 foot door for sure.  If your drives are 3 separate units, I think they can be configured for step dir.  This would save you a ton of time an money.

Find the specs on drivers, I'll help you find the data sheets.  I did hours and hours of research on all Mitsubishi drives.


8 foot door for sure.  If your drives are 3 separate units, I think they can be configured for step dir.  This would save you a ton of time an money.

Find the specs on drivers, I'll help you find the data sheets.  I did hours and hours of research on all Mitsubishi drives.



Well, I hope that it will fit through my garage door. The fact with the head up its 8' leaves me some hope on this machine.
Here is a link to a hand full of pictures of the electronic cabinet. Maybe you can tell me if this is the same as you had. I can't open the left side door yet but it appeared those are the axis drives with the cables hanging off of them?
https://picasaweb.google.com/marty.escarcega/DM4500


Marty
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: cnc-it on May 02, 2012, 07:52:01 AM
The frequel is the spindle drive and the other unit is the Mitsubishi cnc controller. Expensive to buy but super reliable.
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on May 02, 2012, 10:23:42 AM
It looks like your servo amplifier is the same as mine, just maybe a lower power version.  I thinks its the 3 AXIS Integrated version that was not easy to interface with Step and Dir. 

All Manuals can be found here:
http://www.meau.com/eprise/main/sites/public/Downloads/Manuals/default
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Marty_Escarcega on May 02, 2012, 02:21:31 PM
It looks like your servo amplifier is the same as mine, just maybe a lower power version.  I thinks its the 3 AXIS Integrated version that was not easy to interface with Step and Dir.  

All Manuals can be found here:
http://www.meau.com/eprise/main/sites/public/Downloads/Manuals/default

Bummer. Well, I have a good friend who is an EE, maybe he can sort it out. Otherwise will likely go your route. Are the servos DC brush? or Brushless or are they AC?

Did you keep the Frequol spindle drive and spindle motor? If so, what are you using to power your machines in your home shop?
I know I can seperate the controls with single phase AC but the spindle drive is another story and am a bit concerned about running the Frequol spindle drive from a rotary converter.....

Going over this afternoon to measure the machine to see if I can get it in my garage. Even if I have to partially disassemble. I have room once in. I have 10' ceilings. But only a  7' door.  :-\
Marty
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on May 02, 2012, 03:51:36 PM

The current plan is to use the built-in encoder on the spindle motor with the stock FREQROL-SF VFD Drive.   

The original FREQROL-SF VFD had a SF-DA (Speed Reference and Magnesensor Card) to interface with stock MELSAS CNC Controller and stock Magnesensor.  Since the MELDAS CNC controller is being replaced with a Mach3 PC, this SF-DA interface card has been removed from the FREQROL-SF VFD SF-CA mother board and the Magnesensor will not be used. 

To date I have successfully removed the SF-DA card and updated the jumper settings and parameters on the SF-CA mother board to test the unit in a Stand-Alone Mode.  Using simple dip switches to test and interfaced to an old wire-harness, I can take the unit out of eStop to charge up the DC Bus and turn on the spindle fan, enable to unit, run forward/reverse, and adjust the speed with a 10K potentiometer. 

The same wire-harness has connections for spindle orientate switches and its position location is configurable with parameters on the FREQROL-SF VFD mother board.  I have not prototyped up the connections or studied the parameters to test.  I am hopeful that this will work…   I need to get a large block of time allocated to fully study this and test at one time.

Thanks
JH


Marty,

I used my lathe to generate the 3rd leg to test FREQROL-SF VFD, running it on rotary should be fine.  You will have to reconfig it as I did above for stand alone mode.

The servos are AC Brushless.

When are you starting your thread ?  Now that you committed !!!

JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: cnc-it on May 03, 2012, 02:35:37 AM
Not being well up on rotary phase converters could you run the whole machine off one? Would save doing a retrofit..
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Marty_Escarcega on May 04, 2012, 06:51:09 AM
Not being well up on rotary phase converters could you run the whole machine off one? Would save doing a retrofit..

Yes, I imagine you could provided the Rotary is fairly well balanced.
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Marty_Escarcega on May 04, 2012, 06:53:18 AM

The current plan is to use the built-in encoder on the spindle motor with the stock FREQROL-SF VFD Drive.   

The original FREQROL-SF VFD had a SF-DA (Speed Reference and Magnesensor Card) to interface with stock MELSAS CNC Controller and stock Magnesensor.  Since the MELDAS CNC controller is being replaced with a Mach3 PC, this SF-DA interface card has been removed from the FREQROL-SF VFD SF-CA mother board and the Magnesensor will not be used. 

To date I have successfully removed the SF-DA card and updated the jumper settings and parameters on the SF-CA mother board to test the unit in a Stand-Alone Mode.  Using simple dip switches to test and interfaced to an old wire-harness, I can take the unit out of eStop to charge up the DC Bus and turn on the spindle fan, enable to unit, run forward/reverse, and adjust the speed with a 10K potentiometer. 

The same wire-harness has connections for spindle orientate switches and its position location is configurable with parameters on the FREQROL-SF VFD mother board.  I have not prototyped up the connections or studied the parameters to test.  I am hopeful that this will work…   I need to get a large block of time allocated to fully study this and test at one time.

Thanks
JH


Marty,

I used my lathe to generate the 3rd leg to test FREQROL-SF VFD, running it on rotary should be fine.  You will have to reconfig it as I did above for stand alone mode.

The servos are AC Brushless.

When are you starting your thread ?  Now that you committed !!!

JH

Not committed quite yet. I have to go measure the machine and see if I can get it in the garage opening. Can only hope.

What are you running your machines off of. I know you did a Bridgeport VMC. Rotary? I was concerned about feeding the Frequol from a rotary because of voltage imbalances. I supposed I could tune the rotary.
Marty
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Hood on May 04, 2012, 06:58:45 AM
Are rotary converters not usually pretty well balanced? Thought that was the idea of having the motor so it put out true 3 phase rather than the two that a static will.
Hood
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Marty_Escarcega on May 04, 2012, 07:07:09 AM
Are rotary converters not usually pretty well balanced? Thought that was the idea of having the motor so it put out true 3 phase rather than the two that a static will.
Hood

No, they are not. You usually add oil filled capacitors of varying values across the legs and measure the voltage until they get closer. Ive done this once many years ago. And it seems to vary with the load so best to balance on the machine it runs on. 3 phase motors generally tolerate the imbalance. But I'm concerned about feeding an electronic spindle drive like the Frequol imbalanced AC voltage. That's why I am asking JH what he plans or does run his machines on. Looks like he has shop in his home garage.
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Hood on May 04, 2012, 07:11:40 AM
I must have just been lucky then when years ago I had a static and a 10HP motor connected to it to make it a rotary, each phase was within a volt or so of each other even when I had two machines running off it.


Hood
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on May 04, 2012, 10:19:23 AM
Your input line voltage doesn't have completely balanced for the FREQROL VFD to work.  I have successfully run this spindle from 100 RPM to 6000 RPM using 220VAC Single Phase.  This was done by simply faking out the since circuit on the VFD using a small cap and resister to create a phase shift on the since circuit, not on the power side.  I would not recommend this for long term, but it proves the point.

The FREQROL, just like any other VFD, converts the input AC Voltage into DC.  If you get a change to look at it, there is a large bank of caps and bus bars that stores this DC voltage.  When I measured mine, it was 385-410VDC depending on the RPM.  Then the inverter circuit will use large SCRs to switch on and off the DC voltage to create the precision AC 3 Phase and Target Frequency needed to drive the 3 Phase AC Spindle at the correct RPM.  When the Spindle slows down, it acts like a generator and will drive up the DC bus voltages, thus you need to control how fast you decelerate the spindle or you will create a DC B bus voltage higher than the system can handle.  Mine tripped out at 465VDC when decelerating to fast.  Braking resisters circuits can help with this.  They are simply switch onto the DC Bus when the voltage gets to high to absorb the voltage/energy allowing the system to decelerate the spindle faster, as the voltage is decreased the resisters are removed from the bus.

Since my shop only has single phase, short-term I am using my lathe (5 HP 3 Phase using a static converter) and its 3 leg for the 3 rd input into the FREQROL VFD.  Long-term, because I don’t want the lathe running just to run the spindle, I plan to add a 5 HP Rotary just for the 3 rd leg needed to make the FREQROL VFD rectifier circuit happy.

Thanks
JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Marty_Escarcega on May 04, 2012, 10:38:41 AM
Cool. What size is your spindle motor? I understand you should size your rotary converter a bit larger than the motor. Say 7.5hp spindle motor, 10hp rotary converter?

Its good to know the Frequol is not that sensitive. I got some news this morning after Dave Design measured his 2016 which is the newer machine to the 4500. He says 83" with some disassembly, maybe more by dropping the Z axis entirely (unbolting the ball screw assembly)

I will go see the machine today to inspected and measure once more. Then I have to sell of my woodworking machinery to fit in the VMC and an EMCOTURN I am getting next week!

Thanks JH
Marty
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on May 07, 2012, 03:45:18 PM
Engineering Article on VFDs

http://www.edn.com/article/521522-Teardown_The_nuances_of_variable_frequency_drives.php
Title: Prep and Paint
Post by: JHChoppers on June 14, 2012, 11:56:57 AM
Getting some time back on the BIG MILL, this tool is big and I have parts all over the shop….. cant take the mess any longer!

The inside and outside of the large enclosure has been degreased, welded and sanded as well as several other large parts.  The ATC covers have been painted and are ready to be installed back into the VMC.   Been doing some work on the way covers too to ensure proper movement and chip protection.

Thanks
JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on June 20, 2012, 04:42:46 PM
The ATC covers are back on and the half of the inside is painted with 2 coats.   I removed the Z and the back Y way covers as these will need to be bent back into shape for smooth operation, plus it made it easier to paint.  The outside has the first coat of paint, hoping to get the second one on soon.

Also, the large electronic enclosure is sanded and prepped for paint.
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: budman68 on June 20, 2012, 04:56:42 PM
I love the "pride" you put into your work JH.

It's funny how I'm thinking to myself, "hell, I'd be glad just to be making parts on this monster, lol!"

Always enjoy seeing your work-
Dave
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Marty_Escarcega on June 20, 2012, 08:28:22 PM
JH, what kind of paint are you using and how are you applying it? What sort of prep work did you do before hand?
Nice work so far!
Marty
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on June 21, 2012, 05:59:03 PM
I love the "pride" you put into your work JH.

It's funny how I'm thinking to myself, "hell, I'd be glad just to be making parts on this monster, lol!"

Always enjoy seeing your work-
Dave

Thanks

JH, what kind of paint are you using and how are you applying it? What sort of prep work did you do before hand?
Nice work so far!
Marty

Marty,

Degrease and wash, clean with paint thinner, sand with DA 40 grit, 2 coats of oil based paint using a 3 roller.  The oil based paint takes about 12 hours to dry and flows out real nice.  It hardens in about 4 days leaving a clean durable finish.  Its all in prep work, the paint is the easy part.

Thanks
Jh
Title: X and Y Servo Covers and Way Covers
Post by: JHChoppers on July 18, 2012, 01:34:45 PM
All the sheet metal around Y Axis Servo has been painted and installed.  There are about 8 different parts that are under the way cover used to protect the servo from coolant and to provide a drain into the main enclosure.  The Y Axis way cover has been rebuild with rubber stops and delron slides. 

The X Axis servo covers are also painted and installed.  Next up will be the cleanup process for the X way covers and the back Y way cover.  The X Axis way covers are in good shape, only some the delron slides and rubber stops will need to be replaced. 

The back Y way cover will need sheet metal work.  I think someone was standing on it or something large was dropped on it as the internal fins are bent so bad it will not function properly.  I will look and function like new when it’s all done.
Title: Doors and Slides
Post by: JHChoppers on July 18, 2012, 01:48:43 PM
The 2 side doors have been painted and assembled with new rollers and bearing.  I was able to reuse the rubber seal for when the doors are closed.

The BIG electronics enclosure has also been painted and some of the hardware has been installed.  The cooling system mounts in that big hole on the right door.

Only the main IRON structure between the coolant and electronics enclosure, the 2 front doors and spindle housing remains to be painted. 

Thanks
JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Hood on July 18, 2012, 03:47:11 PM
Looking nice, will be good to see it running :)
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: cnc-it on July 18, 2012, 04:38:04 PM
Good work JH. How are you doing with the axis servos...I noticed you had to downsize the motors to stay with the single phase power supply. Do you think they will be  powerfully enough to move that big bed and cut metal at the same time.
I managed to get a 1.5kw single phase Yaskawa drive and motor. The new Sigma5 is very compact..I got a new old stock Sigma 2 drive and a 8nm  1500rpm sgmgh motor..its a real beast of a motor for a single phase unit! Not cheap though..the sigma5 motor/drive is about 1800 gbp.
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on July 18, 2012, 04:55:00 PM
Good work JH. How are you doing with the axis servos...I noticed you had to downsize the motors to stay with the single phase power supply. Do you think they will be  powerfully enough to move that big bed and cut metal at the same time.
I managed to get a 1.5kw single phase Yaskawa drive and motor. The new Sigma5 is very compact..I got a new old stock Sigma 2 drive and a 8nm  1500rpm sgmgh motor..its a real beast of a motor for a single phase unit! Not cheap though..the sigma5 motor/drive is about 1800 gbp.

John,

These are lower wattage than the stock as we talked about before, but the torque is more in line to the stock servos.  Only time will tell once we start making chips....

http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,19480.msg139258.html#msg139258

Thanks
JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: cnc-it on July 18, 2012, 07:14:09 PM
Looks good and cheaper than the Yaskawas but slightly less torque. Looking forward to seeing the results..the Yaskawa drive has a built in inverter because the motors are still 3 phase and it does seem to draw more amps than the 1.5kw 3 phase drive model.
John.
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Marty_Escarcega on July 29, 2012, 12:46:19 PM
Joel, which model servo motors did you end up using? In researching the original HA100, it is rated for 140 kg/cm when stalled or 1942 oz/in
Rated torque at the original motor's top speed of 2000rpm was 97.4 kg/cm or 1351 oz/in

I have found some 1500rpm 1kw motors that are rated at 4064 oz/in @ 1500rpm from anaheimautomation.com.

Really still kicking around whether or not to commit to the conversion of my DM4500. I can fit it in my garage, but I have to move/get rid of other stuff. I have the head room easily,  would have to take the upper ballscrew/servo mount off to clear my 7' garage door and my machine isn't nearly as nice as yours was:
https://picasaweb.google.com/marty.escarcega/DynamechtronicsDM4500#

Your machine is giving me inspiration to try and move forward!

Marty
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on July 29, 2012, 09:29:47 PM
Made some way cover slides to replace the missing ones...   Where did the old ones go? 

JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Matospeter on July 31, 2012, 12:06:15 AM
Jh,
   Hey man not been in here for a little while. It seems you are doing your usual great job redoing this machine.  I finally got my Cincinatti Arrow 5oo moved over to my shop and got the three phase hooked to it. So far I am in the process of reloading the parameters and everything seems to be fine with the stock control at least so far.  I am still not running just yet and I have hopes I can just finish this setup and be running with the original control.  I have been reading thru your threads here and I find it quite interesting the similarities to my machine.  For instance my axis motors are also 2000 RPM and about the same torque as your machine. I want to try to run this machine with the original control if at all possible but I also have to accept that at SOME point the control will no longer be supported and also there are several items in that big electronics box that are REALLY expensive.  If one of them goes down and I cannot source another one reasonably I may be up against a serious decision about what to do with the machine.  Watching your progress is quite inspiring and while it is a lot of work I am sure you make it seem doable.  The interesting thing I keep telling myself is that while it would be a major undertaking I am not doing a complete rebuild as on my RF45. I do not have to make ballscrews and mounts, NO bearings no switches assuming I can find a way to use what is already there and when you use the paired servo and drivers like you are using it is a simple matter of adapting the new motors to the screws.  Which brings me to my next question, I saw that it appears the motors you used are not the same NEMA size as the originals, is that the case or am I seeing it incorrectly, I am wondering if you simply just redrilled the mounts for the different bolt pattern and whatnot or did you buy the motor mount adapter plates that I saw on Machmotions site.  Also were you able to just use the original couplers or are the shafts different sizes and did you just purchase different couplers?   I would think that with adapting the motors and being able to basically gut the control and start over you are given some flexibility to put things where you want and mounting would be much simpler.  I look inside my control box and see miles of wire going everywhere and many relays and different components many of which I have no idea what they do just yet.  When I think about that and then about my RF45 build I really do not understand the reason for all of that complexity.  Just looking at the pictures of your revamped electronics box I can see that it must be less cluttered than it was before despite it doing the same basic things.  My only real issue would be the Toolchanger and the spindle motor altho when I looked at the spindle motor it seems like it would be quite simple to adapt a different motor and drive to it and even maybe run off single phase as you have.    Again I do not wish to go this route but I have to be realistic here, my machine is a 1994 model and will not be supported forever. There will be a time when it will be necessary to do something or get a different machine.  The one thing that makes me not worry too much about it is the fact that you have been able to source everything necessary to do this and it sounds like you were even able to pay for the parts with the sale of the original components that were not damaged.   I could see me doing something like this and adapting motors and using new drives and keeping the pneumatics as much as possible and at least getting the basic three axis function and limits and homes configured pretty easily with what I had learned from the RF45 but it is the Toolchanger that would worry me not really due to the wiring of the thing but rather the software end, I would not know where to begin.  I also do not know that I would run it with MACH3 again not that it ever really gave me any problems but I think I would want to try something new.  I find it interesting that you are able to attain some pretty respectable rapids with the machine now and I am quite sure your power will be more than adequate.  My spindle motor is HUGE and everything on this machine has resolvers which I know little about altho they are supposed to be near bulletproof from what I gather so I guess what I am saying is thank you for doing this twice now and showing your work and sharing your parts sources so that If and when guys like me need to revamp their machine they have a road to hoe....hehehe peace

Pete
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on August 01, 2012, 02:41:11 PM
Pete,

Nothing like a stock working machine!  Keep it stock until it breaks.  It is nice to be able fix it when it breaks, but I would cross that bridge after it breaks, then consider a conversion.

When I added the new servo motors, I simply drilled and tapped new mounting holes into the cast iron using a drill template to get the holes centered.  See attached.

As far as the tool changer software, that is easy...  Just break it down into small parts, ram out, ram in, draw bar up, draw bar down, ATC Home, ATC Left, ATC Right and Machine Tool Change Height, Spindle Orientation…  Once you have these functions in place, you apply the macros from my BP412 or DM4800 project for your tool changer and your done!

JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on August 20, 2012, 02:07:21 PM
Finished up the paint on the Front Doors and some little details around the Z Servo Mount along with the casting between the electronics and the machine enclosure.  The only thing remaining is the Spindle casting and cover.

Also, we got all the plastic windows looking like new using 3M rubbing then polish compounds with the DeWalt buffer (this is an old picture from the BP412 project)

The Y Axis rear way cover is still giving me some trouble…  I have beat and cut and welded on it like crazy, its close but still needs more attitude adjusting.

Next up:  Get the doors mounted and working smoothly, then onto the control panel.

JH
Title: Control Panel
Post by: JHChoppers on August 21, 2012, 12:12:50 PM
I found the old CAD files for the control panel used on the BP412 project.   Made a new fixture plate and have started cutting out the bezel plates.  Been collecting up all the new Buttons, MPG Wheel and eStop, LCD, and KeyPad hardware.  Should be starting on the sheet metal and mounting hardware in the next couple of days, its going to be interesting on how it will come together and get mounted onto the Machine…

The goal is to make it the same as on the BP412 (shown in picture), just make the sheet metal box a little thinner.

JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on August 22, 2012, 06:15:09 PM
Quick Pics of the control panel covers cut.

JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Marty_Escarcega on August 22, 2012, 09:24:28 PM
Joel, is it 3 pieces and out of what material? Looks nice.
Marty
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on August 23, 2012, 01:23:38 PM
Yep, 3 parts.  Its too big for the BP412 to cut all at once and this save a little on material.  Its 7075 0.125 think.  Got the MGP, eStop and Button cases installed below:

Thanks
JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on August 23, 2012, 01:32:37 PM
Real Quick:  This is some before and after pics of the ATC pneumatic hardware.

JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Marty_Escarcega on August 24, 2012, 10:34:08 AM
Any ideas what that "timer" looking unit that was above the lubricator that you removed did?
Marty
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on August 24, 2012, 02:21:09 PM
Good catch!  Its an addjustable pressure switch to let the control know that Air is available.  

I removed it from the system as only the ATC and Draw Bar needs shop air and these faults are captured and mitigated in the ATC software control by insuring each Home and Extend operation completes before the next step.  Just trying to keep the fault logic simple.

Thanks
JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: thewho on August 28, 2012, 03:35:37 PM
Can you add a picture of the way cover between the table and Z axis? I need some ideas for my mill.
Great work as always!
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: deanq on August 29, 2012, 04:59:43 PM
Wow, that's a lot of work! :o I can't imagine the man-hours that have gone into it!
Just curious, how does your tool changer go to the correct tool if it's only a simple AC motor that can go forward and reverse? How does it know how far to rotate if the next tool is say, 5 tool spaces away?
Thanks
Dean
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on August 29, 2012, 05:11:57 PM
Thanks!   

All the ATCs that I have seen have a Geneva Mechanism for this reason including this one.

Hope that helps.

(http://www.dugnorth.com/blog/uploaded_images/Geneva_mechanism_6spoke_animation.gif)

Thanks
JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Dan13 on August 30, 2012, 03:57:57 AM
The disadvantage of Geneva type ATCs is them being rather slow. It drivers one crazy watching the turret stopping at each position when setting up tools.

Dan
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on August 31, 2012, 10:45:33 AM
Can you add a picture of the way cover between the table and Z axis? I need some ideas for my mill.
Great work as always!

This is Rear Y axis way cover.  This was the hardest one to repair as it was all smashed up.  So far it seems to be working good.

Thanks
JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: budman68 on August 31, 2012, 11:01:38 AM
Looks good, Joel.

Question for you, do these have a "wiper" in them of some kind, or are they just metal -to- metal scrapers?

Dave
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on August 31, 2012, 04:37:47 PM
Looks good, Joel.

Question for you, do these have a "wiper" in them of some kind, or are they just metal -to- metal scrapers?

Dave


Dave,

There is thin rubber wiper between each cover.  The goal with it is to keep out the all the coolant too.  

Thanks
JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: budman68 on August 31, 2012, 04:43:58 PM
Ah, I kind of imagined there would be, thanks for that-

Dave
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on September 05, 2012, 09:58:31 AM
The front doors are tilted back therefore the drawer slides used to connect them at the top are under additional stress when the drawer slides are extended (door closed position)   You can see the stock slides are shot when compared to the new Accuride ones.  After creating new holes and mounts the new slides have been attached to the doors. 

The doors are hung but sag when they are closed because of the tilt factor.  I am not real happy about this as the doors should open and close effortlessly.  So, I plan too attached a truck / rail system at the top connecting the large opening to remove this sag and allow the drawer slides to perform with out the tilt stress.  This will allow the top of the doors to be connected at 2 points instead of just 1.   At least the is the current plan….

JH
Title: Control Panel Structure
Post by: JHChoppers on September 10, 2012, 10:32:15 AM
I took some old steel shelves and cut them into the control panel sides for the basic box structure.  Drilled holes and sanded them for the spot welds and got the basic box constructed.  The front side where the CNC cut bezel is now drilled and tapped into place, then made a quick access panel for the back side so the wiring for buttons can be installed with ease.  I should have the screen mounted in the next couple of days as the internal mount fabrication is almost complete.

JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Marty_Escarcega on September 10, 2012, 09:01:07 PM
Way to recycle Joel! Nice work so far...
Marty
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on September 12, 2012, 10:27:18 AM
Way to recycle Joel! Nice work so far...
Marty

Thanks Marty...  A large portion of the junk in my shop is from industrial trash
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on September 12, 2012, 10:29:13 AM
Finished up the internal mounts and gusset for the 17in LCD screen and added a simple keyboard tray with support gussets.   The top and bottom of the enclosor also have covers so the basic box is complete.  Once the paint is on it will look like new.

Next I need to get it connected to the mill with a swivel and provide a place for the cables to run.

JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on September 13, 2012, 01:58:04 PM
The Spindle Housing Cover was cracked and is very wobbly.  Since I am in sheet metal mode, we whipped out a quick plate to keep the damage from getting worse and to minimize the wobble. 

JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on September 28, 2012, 06:45:03 PM
Finally got the front doors hung and adjusted.  Didnt need the top rail after all.  Just needed more TLC and shims..

JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on September 28, 2012, 06:51:45 PM
Using 2 chunks of angle, we welded up the the cable tray.  Then with square tube, the control mounting arm was fabricated and welded to cable tray.

I put an offset in the control arm for cable to route from the box into the tray.

JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on September 28, 2012, 07:00:42 PM
A piano hinge was welded to the mounting arm and wedge was made for the bottom.  With the cable tray and wedge installed, the mounting arm is ROCK solid.  The control panel has 1/4 20 screws to connect to the mounting arm.  This way the control panel can be removed as one part.  The same for the cable tray and arm, one assembly that is bolted to the CNC.

Now the control panel is mounted and swings nicely, just need to finish the swivel cable tray from the control to the main tray.

JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: budman68 on September 28, 2012, 07:10:35 PM
Just wish I could be there to watch you work, Joel-

Dave
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on September 28, 2012, 07:54:07 PM
Just wish I could be there to watch you work, Joel-

Dave

Me too... Then I would have a drinking buddy while we work!
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: budman68 on September 28, 2012, 08:40:15 PM
Absolutely!  ;D
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Dan13 on September 29, 2012, 01:13:05 AM
Love watching your work!

Dan
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on October 08, 2012, 01:02:56 PM
I got the cable track done for the control panel.  The cables will run up out of the box into the cable tray and allow the panel to swivel (recycled motorcycle exhaust pipe)

All the welds are in the inside for a clean look, got it sanded and is ready for paint.

JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Marty_Escarcega on October 08, 2012, 01:43:18 PM
What are the approximate dimensions of your cabinet Joel? Keep up the good work.
Marty
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on October 08, 2012, 02:09:43 PM
What are the approximate dimensions of your cabinet Joel? Keep up the good work.
Marty

Thanks Marty!

The control panel is 27.0 x 17.0 x 6.5 inches

JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Marty_Escarcega on October 08, 2012, 02:16:41 PM
How are you coming on the control and spindle drive?
I picked up a running DM4500 in running condition. Too big for me. I plan on selling the machie. It would be a shame to part it out. I'm in the Southwest.
Marty
Mesa,AZ
Plugging along on my DM4400 conversion
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on October 09, 2012, 04:45:56 PM
How are you coming on the control and spindle drive?

Slow, I can't seem to keep the kids out of the machine...  LOL
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Marty_Escarcega on October 09, 2012, 10:24:27 PM
 :) Heh, that's cool, they hang out (or at least visit you) in the shop!
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on October 17, 2012, 01:51:24 PM
The control panel is sanded, painted and installed!  No buttons or MPG functionality yet...  But the screen and keyboard are up and the look and feel matches the BP412 too.

JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: budman68 on October 17, 2012, 02:10:20 PM
Just really nice, Joel,

-as always, thanks for sharing-

Dave
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Dan13 on October 17, 2012, 02:30:15 PM
Cool looking panel. Where did you get the buttons?

Dan
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Marty_Escarcega on October 17, 2012, 03:03:35 PM
Joel, very nice example of what you started with and recycled and how it turned out. Job well done. Thanks for continuing the inspiration!
Marty
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Matospeter on November 23, 2012, 08:42:21 PM
Bump this up for more progress pics and information on this monster..... I thought you might like to know I have gutted my Cincinatti arrow to start the retrofit.  I am going with the LinuxCNC/mesa combo on mine so I did not post a build thread here since it is not mach3 related but the journey has begun. I can only hope to fill your massive sneakers here with my build man. I will give you a shout here sometime soon. Have a bunch of questions about the teco motors and drivers and tuning them etc.... Hope you are still making progress on the DM it looks awesome. Peace

Pete

Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Marty_Escarcega on November 23, 2012, 08:51:01 PM
Hey Joel, how are you coming? Inquiring minds would like to know. :-)
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on November 26, 2012, 03:53:05 PM
Cool looking panel. Where did you get the buttons?

Dan

The buttons are standard arcade buttons.  You can get these on the cheap from eBay.   They come with 12VDC LEDs and all kinds of colors.

JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on November 26, 2012, 04:10:07 PM
I did get some time on the CNC.  Mainly just doing small things instead of working on what needs to get done (ie Spindle Integration), so I got the windows put back in.  I had polished them earlier and wanted to get them installed before they got messed up laying around the shop.  The old window seals are hard and should be replaced, but once I started I just wanted to get it done.  For some reason this was much harder than the BP412 project.  After several hours of pain… the windows are installed but seals will not fully seal.  I made sure the gap is at the bottom and made these little seal covers.  The covers are 8 inches long and will allow me to fill in the gaps with black RTV gasket sealer.  Hopefully have a picture of them installed soon.

(Pete:  Glad your digging into the Cincinnati too)

JH
.
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Hood on November 26, 2012, 04:55:06 PM
Almost makes me want to go the whole hog and paint mine, notice I said almost ;D
Looks great.
Hood
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Marty_Escarcega on November 26, 2012, 06:34:31 PM
Thanks for the update Joel. Starts getting long in the tooth towards the end doesn't it. I dunno. I think the seals would drive me nuts and want to replace them pretty simple. I think my local auto body shop sells it in bulk.
I'm getting a little further along on your machines little brother the DM4400.
Persevere Joel, you will get there!
Marty
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on November 30, 2012, 11:07:41 AM
Got the window seal parts installed, just need to RTF them to keep the coolant in.  Marty, new seal would be beter… but I like the bling bling on each window.

Also, cut some cooling fans housing and a vent port for the electronics enclosure.  It came with a heat exchanger, but I really want air flow in through the enclosure. 
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: budman68 on November 30, 2012, 11:13:19 AM
Looking really nice, my friend-

Dave
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Marty_Escarcega on January 08, 2013, 09:51:49 PM
So, what's the latest on the conversion, been over a month since an update!  ;)
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on January 09, 2013, 11:28:29 AM
Slow on the NEW BIG VMC.  Been slammed with work....  but this is a good thing.

JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Marty_Escarcega on March 25, 2013, 10:27:44 PM
Joel, stopping in to say hi and how is the DM4800 coming along? Did you stall out or?
Marty
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Sam on March 25, 2013, 11:39:59 PM
Those are some really nice looking parts Joel. Glad to hear that business is good!
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on March 27, 2013, 12:13:22 PM
Joel, stopping in to say hi and how is the DM4800 coming along? Did you stall out or?
Marty

Its feels like I have stalled, but its BIG time on my mind.  Having issues with Y Axis bearing and 1000W servo that drives it, thinking I need to bump up the power to 1500W or 2000W.
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on March 27, 2013, 01:01:09 PM
New 3 Phase Motor/Generator for the AC Spindle Drive.  This might be needed for the NEW Y axis driver too...

(it looks bigger than it is)

Thanks
JH
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: cnc-it on March 27, 2013, 01:33:27 PM
Thats interesting Joel..could that unit supply the whole machine with 3 phase ? 3 phase servos are much cheaper and easier to get hold of.  A friend of mine has a 10hp digital single phase to 3 phase converter which he runs his machine centre off at home.
John.
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Marty_Escarcega on May 03, 2013, 05:46:58 PM
Joel, I don't understand. Are you saying you couldn't get the spindle drive to run correctly?
Where are you at on the machine? I thought you had new AC Servos on X&Y and had that sorted out.
Persevere man!  ;)
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: cwmachine on July 07, 2013, 09:04:16 PM
HELLO

I need some direction.I have a dm4800 that just started acting out. It has graphic card issues (mc201b) ,which i just ordered.Now the spindle is stopping in mid cut,an theres a sound like thermo overloads pulling in and out   behind the drive boards and spindle drive.Can you give me some direction as to what to look for before i call a tech.
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: cwmachine on July 17, 2013, 10:56:54 PM
hello

I  have a DM 4500.The lcd screen wont turn on, and the boards on the side of the power supply are showing red on the leds insted of green does this mean the power supply is gone...Any help would be great
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on February 13, 2016, 03:48:38 PM
hello

I  have a DM 4500.The lcd screen wont turn on, and the boards on the side of the power supply are showing red on the leds insted of green does this mean the power supply is gone...Any help would be great

Sorry, I dont know anything about the DM4800.   This is a retrofit bud :)
Title: Re: 1997 DYNA MYTE DM4800 VMC to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on February 13, 2016, 03:52:44 PM
This project is for sale.   Everything in the build is included minus the X Y Z Servo Systems.      The PC with Mach installed, the display control cabinet, the fully functional ATC and controls, coolent system, spindle motor and drive and of course the 12000lb machine.   Like I said everything in the build minus the servo systems.   The servos have been pulled and are in use in a different machine.   

Please make me an offer.   

Thanks
JH