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General CNC Chat => Show"N"Tell ( Your Machines) => Topic started by: JHChoppers on April 07, 2011, 05:50:11 PM

Title: 1980 Mori Seiki SL1 CNC Lathe to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on April 07, 2011, 05:50:11 PM
We are just getting started on this Mori Seiki SL1 CNC Lathe to Mach3 Conversion.  I have had this lathe for about 2 years and now its time to get moving on it.  I didn’t want to dig into it until I had both the time and resources to dedicate to the project.  

Not knowing much about CNC Lathes or Mach3 Lathe, I anticipate this will take some time for me to get my head around it.  My plan is to get some of the covers off and understand the spindle and X & Z Axis first.  There is a 3 Phase 2HP hydraulic pump for the Collect Closer, Tail Stock, and Tool Changer: not sure how this works or the theory of operation of these mechanisms.  Also is a Coolant pump and Lube pump.  

Not sure what I will reuse yet of the Axis Drivers or Spindle Control as the lathe will need to converted to 220VAC Single Phase.

If anyone has information on these lathes, it would greatly be appreciated.

It is in real clean shape and was clamed to be functional when we got it.  Below are some pictures of the starting point:
Title: Re: 1980 Mori Seiki SL1 CNC Lathe to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: ostie01 on April 07, 2011, 07:18:17 PM
It look like to be in really good shape.

I'm nor worry about this project when I look at the VMC retrofit you did, it was so nice.


Jeff
Title: Re: 1980 Mori Seiki SL1 CNC Lathe to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Hood on April 07, 2011, 07:49:41 PM
Looking forward to seeing this progress, the more lathes  on Mach the better :)

Hood
Title: Re: 1980 Mori Seiki SL1 CNC Lathe to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: dresda on April 07, 2011, 08:15:42 PM
I thought it had a fanuc 6TA control but looking at the Z axis motor I don't think so, is it a Yasnac?
Spent the last 30 years working on Mori's and the like, no yasnacs up here in Canada. Have lots of info. Do you have drawings?
This is the Cadillac of machine tools.
Ray.
Title: Re: 1980 Mori Seiki SL1 CNC Lathe to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on April 08, 2011, 11:20:36 AM
It look like to be in really good shape.

I'm not worry about this project when I look at the VMC retrofit you did, it was so nice.

Jeff

Thanks for the vote of confidence.  I know tool/engine lathes well, but CNC Lathes are new to me. 
Title: Re: 1980 Mori Seiki SL1 CNC Lathe to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on April 08, 2011, 11:34:53 AM
I thought it had a fanuc 6TA control but looking at the Z axis motor I don't think so, is it a Yasnac?
Spent the last 30 years working on Mori's and the like, no yasnacs up here in Canada. Have lots of info. Do you have drawings?
This is the Cadillac of machine tools.
Ray.

Cadillac is right on !  This thing is one big hunk of old iron...its a beast at 5500 LBS. 

Yasnac is the servo types, I have a poor condition connection drawing of an SL3 Lathe and a good detailed connection / interface drawing for the Spindle Control.  I will post these once I scan them in.  If you have anything on the SL1 I would very much like to see it :)

Title: Re: 1980 Mori Seiki SL1 CNC Lathe to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on April 08, 2011, 11:42:13 AM
Here are some additional pics of the electronic enclosers.  Encloser 1 has the main power and spindle drive, enclose 2 has a power supply(?), X and Z drivers, and the 1980s computer circuit.  It does have a tape drive converter circuit too, this might have some eBay value :)

JH

Title: Servo Motor Research
Post by: JHChoppers on April 13, 2011, 12:01:10 PM
The internet is great!!  I was able to find the Yaskawa documentation for the X and Z Servo Motors and Optical Encoders.  The good news is these are simple DC Servo Motors rated at mild 400W Continuous and 2000W Peak.  Even better is optical encoders are old school digital quadrature with 500 p/rev.  (looking at the datasheet, I am not sure if this means 500cpr / 2000ppr or 125cpr / 500ppr, I am hoping for 500cpr / 2000ppr)  The output voltage is a collector pulled up to 12volts, so I should be able to convert this to TTL levels.  (not bad for 1979)

In theory, I should be able to drive these stock servos and stock encoders with a simple gecko, viper or CNCDrive

Attached are the datasheets for Servos and Encoders
Title: Re: 1980 Mori Seiki SL1 CNC Lathe to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: dresda on April 13, 2011, 08:58:49 PM
We never saw the Yasagawa units up here in Canada. All the mori's would have Fanuc And the encoders would be 2000 Pulses and guess that's X4 8000ppr. Any Mori with Fanuc DC brushed motors and drives would be +-10volts analogue so you would need a $1000.00 motion board and good look trying to make it work. I do have one mill working at the moment with DSPMC running DC motors Servo Dynimics but that's hit and miss. i have been trying to run Fanuc ac analogue motors for the past 12 months with no success.
Ray.
Title: Re: 1980 Mori Seiki SL1 CNC Lathe to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: manmeran on April 14, 2011, 12:23:14 AM
Quote
drives would be +-10volts analogue so you would need a $1000.00 motion board
you can use YAPSC for this purpose. Cheap and reliable

Dear JH
is it possible ask about price for lathe ?
Approximate price What is it?

Amir
Title: Re: 1980 Mori Seiki SL1 CNC Lathe to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: dresda on April 14, 2011, 03:17:03 PM
What is YAPSC?
Title: Re: 1980 Mori Seiki SL1 CNC Lathe to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: Hood on April 14, 2011, 03:23:23 PM
Its a step/dir to analogue converter. You connect it to the Step/Dir from Mach and your encoders go to the YAPSC and then it will output the +-10v for your analogue amps.
Not 100% sure but think it comes in kit form, do a search on the CNC Zone and you should find info.
Hood
Title: Re: 1980 Mori Seiki SL1 CNC Lathe to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on April 14, 2011, 06:09:38 PM
Quote
drives would be +-10volts analogue so you would need a $1000.00 motion board
you can use YAPSC for this purpose. Cheap and reliable

Dear JH
is it possible ask about price for lathe ?
Approximate price What is it?

Amir

Not sure about YAPSC Products....  My guess its like a Pixie P100

The lathe as is cost $2500 USD, plus shipping and Mach3 Mods ...

JH
Title: Spindle Driver VFD
Post by: JHChoppers on April 15, 2011, 02:47:10 PM
I was able to find the Yaskawa AC Spindle Drive Documentation / Specs for the CIMR-MT7.5K.  The thing with most of these Spindle Drives are that they are 3 phase ( or are they…. )   The only thing that is 3 phase is the 6 diode bridge rectifier that converts the AC into DC for the internals of the unit to then recreate the 3 Phase AC for motor with adjustable frequency to control the speed.  If you connect single phase to the rectifier, then you are only using 4 of the diodes to generate the internal DC, this means you can use single phase on the AC Spindle Drive.  (this is my theory, I have not tried it)

My plan is to remove it and replace it with a NEW Drive that supports ModBus for the control and interface to Mach3
Title: Re: 1980 Mori Seiki SL1 CNC Lathe to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on April 19, 2011, 03:50:47 PM
Well….  I messed up.  My spindle is the CDMR-MR 7.5K not the CIMR-MT 7.5K, this means its not an AC Motor, it’s a monster DC motor.  This changes my entire plan, so for now, I will just break down the machine to the components that I plan on keeping for now….
Title: Re: 1980 Mori Seiki SL1 CNC Lathe to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on April 19, 2011, 04:02:16 PM
Here are some pics of the tear down....
Title: Re: 1980 Mori Seiki SL1 CNC Lathe to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on April 19, 2011, 04:03:02 PM
and a couple more ...

JH
Title: Re: 1980 Mori Seiki SL1 CNC Lathe to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: cnc-it on April 25, 2011, 02:52:10 PM
Some nice gear there JH. All these motors and drives can be run from a Galil motion card. The Galil cards need an encoder feedback and I'm thinking with those drives you have might have a Tach feed to them from the motherboard to regulate the speed.

The encoders will probably go to the motherboard which handles the positioning and also creates a tach signal for the drives from the encoder feed?

Presume you are loosing the drives though as they are 3 phase...just pointing out if your motors don't have Tachos it might be a pia!

Looks like a Fanuc 5T control to me or maybe a Fanuc 6A?

The Fanuc AC analogue drives A06B-6050 types commutate the motor from the drive using the encoder position which is set to a certain angle with the motor poles. The encoder feed also goes to the Fanuc mother board which closes the position loop and handles the motion commands to give the drives the analogue signal they require.

On the Fanuc DC Yellow cap motor set up (similar to the Yasanak) the mother board converted the encoder signal to a velocity signal for the drives and also used it to close the loop..no tacho needed on the motors..works very well!

john



Title: Re: 1980 Mori Seiki SL1 CNC Lathe to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: dresda on April 25, 2011, 10:04:10 PM
I would be looking at Galil or somebody else, I am still trying to get my DSPMC to work on red cap Fanuc, and on my other project with DC servo Dynamics the DSPMC works but the Acc/Dec in feed hold is pathetic @ .75ms. I have been asking for him to change it to 150ms or whatever for months. Also, I bought a really nice USB hand held pendant from Andrey in Russia, doesn't work, conflict with DSPMC plug-in.
Ray.
Title: Re: 1980 Mori Seiki SL1 CNC Lathe to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: StepDIR on February 04, 2013, 02:28:31 PM
Does anyone know where I can get the manuals/connection diagrams for the Z and X axis servo drives?  This is on a Mori Seiki SL-3 with Servopack CPCR-MR 052 GB and CPCR-MR 152 GC drives.  I am getting ready to do a retrofit to Mach3 with a Galil motion controller and a DL06 PLC.

Also if anyone knows where I can get the wiring schematics for this Lathe that would be a great help too.

Thanks
Title: Re: 1980 Mori Seiki SL1 CNC Lathe to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: StepDIR on February 06, 2013, 07:51:18 AM
I thought it had a fanuc 6TA control but looking at the Z axis motor I don't think so, is it a Yasnac?
Spent the last 30 years working on Mori's and the like, no yasnacs up here in Canada. Have lots of info. Do you have drawings?
This is the Cadillac of machine tools.
Ray.

Cadillac is right on !  This thing is one big hunk of old iron...its a beast at 5500 LBS. 

Yasnac is the servo types, I have a poor condition connection drawing of an SL3 Lathe and a good detailed connection / interface drawing for the Spindle Control.  I will post these once I scan them in.  If you have anything on the SL1 I would very much like to see it :)


 
Were you ever able to scan the connection drawing and spindle control scanned in? 
I am about to embark on an SL-3 retrofit and I would be very interested in these. 

 Please let me know. 
Thanks, Jay
Title: Re: 1980 Mori Seiki SL1 CNC Lathe to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: fdos on February 18, 2013, 12:08:04 PM
This one defo needs a bump!   Potentially a really nice machine you have there.

If it were mine I'd be swapping out those old servos and drives for new AC brushless gear.

My Hardinge also had DC spindle motor (5hp), and I swapped it out for a decent iron framed 4hp AC motor and Siemens MM440 drive.   Saved me much grief.

Title: Re: 1980 Mori Seiki SL1 CNC Lathe to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: StepDIR on May 21, 2014, 10:06:44 AM
I was curious to know if there are any updates to this lathe conversion.
I'm very interested.
Title: Re: 1980 Mori Seiki SL1 CNC Lathe to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: icentropy on May 09, 2016, 02:23:46 PM
Yes, I'd love to hear what the update on this is as well. I just had a 1983 SL-1 with a Yasnac 2000GII Controller go down with a bad encoder code. This is only the latest in a string of "issues" we've been having with it in the last few years (all having to do with the old wiring and controller). I need to dig into this latest error but the machine is in great mechanical shape and I see the writing on the wall that it won't be long before either it's time to dismantle for parts or do a retrofit on it.
Title: Re: 1980 Mori Seiki SL1 CNC Lathe to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on May 09, 2016, 05:15:15 PM
Sorry guys....  not much to update on.   
Title: Re: 1980 Mori Seiki SL1 CNC Lathe to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: icentropy on May 09, 2016, 06:39:25 PM
Sorry guys....  not much to update on.   

Bummer, mind if I ask if it's been stopped due to problems with the retrofit or due to other issues?
Title: Re: 1980 Mori Seiki SL1 CNC Lathe to Mach3 Conversion
Post by: JHChoppers on May 10, 2016, 10:12:20 AM
Its just not a priority at this time, so its on the back burner for now