Machsupport Forum

Mach Discussion => Mach Screens => Works in progress => Topic started by: DaOne on January 08, 2011, 06:46:11 PM

Title: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: DaOne on January 08, 2011, 06:46:11 PM
This thread will focus on a new lathe screen. Replies will be monitored and if out of context with the thread they may be deleted or relocated to
another topic. Nothing personal my friends, but initialy the task is hard enough without it blooming into multiple topics. So requests on  running a  lathe, or wizards,
or things just not associated with the actual development of a  lathe screen should be asked elswhere. Just want to keep it focused.

Our goal will be to improve on all the currently available ( free ) screens and come up with , idealy, the best of the best.
Should you have a lathe screen which you developed and want to offer it feel free to post so it can be reviewed.

The lathe has taken a back seat for a long time. There are shortcomings to MACH3  Lathe. This post is not about fixing the shortcomings  as
that is out of our control. It is possible however to make a more usable lathe screen that can be embraced.

Exactly how the wizards will be incorporated  is yet to be determined. There is a thread where activity on upgrading the wizards
is in place. I am going to create a seperate thread on the threading wizards.

So if you would like to give your time, expertise, and use talents towards an improrved lathe screen....here is your chance.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Back some time ago Hood reached out for input on a new lathe screen with the following questions ? and R  replies:

?What would you want to see for the standard lathe screen?
R- My personal preference would be a screen similar to mill in layout and with most day to day functions on the main page and other pages for the not so common/occasional tasks and diagnostics etc

?How would you have the screen? 
?What would you want on the pages?
?How many different pages?
?Similar to Mill layout or similar to the way the lathe screen is now or if neither what would you like?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

R-  Seriously i do not like them to be too flashy.

R- There are many wasted items on the standard mill screen as it also doubles as router and plasma with all those unwanted functions as compared to a lathe screen.

? So I take it from your reply you like the way the standard turn screen is set up or is yours vastly different?

R- Mine is similar in that it uses large buttons for some functions it has a much more friendly layout.
R- Just had a look and was about to reply, to me that is more like the mill setup than the turn setup and is definitely my preference.

?Do a poll?
R -A poll, well not sure how you could make that up, just too many options I would think but feel free to do so if you think it would be the way to go. I thought ideas in a post would be better

R-  would like to be able to jog cont. and step the x and z axis in selectable size steps and control the spindle and coolant.
       Also a turret jog buton would be nice. And the gcode window and all its stuff. Edit, load, run, hold, stop, ect. Toolpath would be nice as well.

R- There are going to be lot of user preferences on the lathe screen since everyone works differently or has a different variation of  the basic lathe. 
R-  I have been using Phil's screen and it is much more user friendly and has some nice additions / changes  that were done. The current standard one sucks but once you use Phils screen and
     don't have to jump all over the place you would understand what i mean.  Visual switch mode status , enlarged screen fly out on thecycle / main screen, threading task / indication / and turn
     wizards with a click, additional buttons for jogging and visual status, additioinal Axis DROs and coordinate status at a glance are just a few things that come to mind on Phil's screen.
 

? How would you have the screen
R- must be different at a glance that it is a lathe screen
R - no "flashy" screen colors, what is important stands out or indicates in a non irritating way
R- not like the current standard one, but tabbed screens like the mill
R - step change the screens ( other than the main operating screen) such that it's it visualy guides you into
  detailed setup via flyouts ( example; a single tabbed Setup screen would visualy show the lathe along with
  coordinates, homing controlled point, offsets / tool table, at a high level. A click on a  particular subject area invokes a
  fly out with the associated particulars for data input.  The whole intent would be to make it somewhat user intuitive
  such that the big picture is grasped and work your way down to the associated detail.
R- yep, include additional items from the mill screen
R- tries to address the future ( like optional touch screen ), maybe some macro buttons, other / additional axis use)

R-What would you want on the pages?
R - Phil's screen could be used as a good start for an operating screen to enhance and modify
R- depends on some yet to be determined defined logic
R- ability to use a rotary axis ( i think in the future, as cnc lathe users increase you will see things added to the lathe to increase it's versatility....)
 
?How many different pages?
R- Operating screen, touch screen,setup screen, tool screen, diagnostics, advanced screen
     ( minimize the number of screens, but how manny will be what can be shown on the screen)   

?Similar to Mill layout or similar to the way the lathe screen is now or if neither what would you like?
R- simular to Phils main screen and incorporating all relavant stuff from the mill to enhance
R- A combination of both but different and better?

R- Personally I wouldnt use a screen that comes with Mach anyway because I am weird and just like the things relevant to me to be on the screen and nothing else.
 Wish it was easy to come up with a way to have a blank canvas and a load of drag and drop buttons so everyone could easily suit themselves but dont think that
 would be easy to do and even then there would still have to be at least a basic screen for new people to use until they decided how they did things.


R- One thing that deffinatley needs to be addressed is standard Hotkeys. They need to be consistant among all default screens. Mill, plasma, lathe, ect.
     Under no circumstance should the same hotkey be assigned to 2 different functions.
R- got a touch screen and would like to see a button on the screen to bring up the jog menu instead of using the tab key.
R-  Particularly a turret jog button. Also the most used buttons have to be on one screen, so you don't have to go back and forth between screens to find the Edit button for instance.
R- Would  be nice to have the machine coords on the main screen as well.
R-  a clear LED that shows if tool length comp is in effect and a button to go to the tools screen and back to the previous page.




Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: RICH on January 08, 2011, 11:09:22 PM
Examples of lathe screens.
Rich
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: RICH on January 09, 2011, 11:03:26 AM
Two more examples of lathe screens.
RICH
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: RICH on January 09, 2011, 11:31:42 AM
Here is my high level take on the lathe screens posted in reply 1 & 2.

The 1024 that comes with Mach Turn requires the user to go back and forth between screens ( numerous "clicks" ) to use. I can't speak for the intent of how it was initaily set up and seems that the
thought process was to set up the piece, manualy use and then use the cycle screen for actual running. The diagnostics stands on it's owne. There is a  Flash version of the screen.

The Blue and Silver screens are just an enhanced visual remake of the 1024 screen set. Same layout. User can have it in two different colors.

Softselect screen provides for a single screen but lacks some of the operational functionality of the other screens.

Phils screen combines the 1024 screen sets, adds another axis, and a whole lot of functionality in the screens. It eliminates the need to go back and forth between screens  and provides
for a larger fly out graphics screen ( not shown in the pic). Button clicks are minimized to use it.

Scotts screen is an improvement on the 1024 screen but lacks some of the things available from Phils screen.

Initial thoughts are to combine features from Phils screen into Scotts screen set. While we are  at it, may as well tweak it more to get the best of the best and TRY to satisfy some of the remarks
which are posted in the first reply.

When i get a chance I'll post a more detail comparison list.

SO WHAT SAY ALL YOU LATHE USERS?

RICH 




Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Dan13 on January 09, 2011, 01:51:20 PM
I agree, Rich. The screen which comes with Mach3Turn is very annoying to use with its jumping back and forth between the screens. A screen set providing all the day to day features on one screen is a good improvement. However, the biggest advantage, of the 1024 screen set is its simple screens with only few buttons and you don't have to look for that single button all over the screen. so we need to be careful not to get carried away by trying to put everything on the main page.

I like large buttons and DRO's. The DRO's on Phil's screen are too small for me. I like them being distinct from the other stuff on the screen. Scott's screen has lot's of unused space. I think it's a waste. buttons could be made bigger.

Also, would be nice to have FRO percentage slide bars like in Mach Mill, and not some arrows that change the feed by a set amount.

Dan
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: M250cnc on January 09, 2011, 03:23:34 PM
I am very flattered to see my 3 page lathe screen so well thought of.  :-[

When i first opened lathe i thought i was in some parallel universe it was so different from mill.  ???

I hadn't had much luck with screen 4 it just doesn't work for me but thanks to Klaus and his MachScreen i was able to do my screen i don't think i would have persevered with screen 4 i would have used someone else's.

I would be the first to admit my screen is lacking graphically and i am not too good with scripts and such like so i don't really know how i could contribute to the new lathe screen apart from ideas.

I have  have updated my own screen but i haven't bothered with the graphics i just use the standard buttons generated by MachScreen.

Some of the features asked for i already have in my personal version and as i work in metric some of my updates would not suit imperial users sol for those still living in the past so there would be two versions mm & imperial. ;D

I haven't modified my screen for some months so to me it is perfect but there are lots of things on the screen that i do not use so things could be improved further i know.

If those in charge would like to see it or know more details i will post it

Phil
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: RICH on January 09, 2011, 03:39:10 PM
Phil....I am still using your screen. Let not your heart be troubled.  :-*  :D Definately post your ideas and if you have a new pic of it modify your reply / add the pic.
Can you list or highlight the personal features you added?
Thanks,
RICH

Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: DaOne on January 09, 2011, 03:39:44 PM
I have been working on a copy of the Haas intuitive programming interface for the tool room lathe. To me its a simple layout that easy to use. It has all the conversational programming you need to make quick parts without cad.

Watch this video and tell me what your thoughts are...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RtBhY8wXqk

I know the Haas has a full keypad layout however not many of the functions on the keypad are used. They can still be included but don't need to be on the main screen. I own a TL-1 in the shop and its so simple my 8 year can run it. I built a 9x20 conversion for the garage to use at home so my kids can make things. I would love to have it simple like the big machine at the shop.
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: M250cnc on January 09, 2011, 04:06:32 PM
Phil....I am still using your screen. Let not your heart be troubled.  :-*  :D Definately post your ideas and if you have a new pic of it modify your reply / add the pic.
Can you list or highlight the personal features you added?
Thanks,
RICH

Manual screen

I added with the help of Melee (No Longer A Member) a facing wizard i suppose i use it so

Touch on workpiece set the facing amount be to be removed it will progressively remove that amount and then set Z to zero at the end of each cut the Z backs out so as not to touch the material when rapiding out there is a settings page to this so that speeds etc can all be preset

A G00 Z button and a G00 X Button  so when you have to come back to your axis zero just press the right button

Then i have two buttons with G1 Z and G1 X these each have a Dro to be the position the axis will feed to at the current set feedrate

The most used dros &  functions from the mpg flyout screen, i am using two mpgs to control the axis and the buttons allow fine movement and all types of movement

I replaced the code for the homing button to ref both axis one after the other

Two buttons to switch between Feed per rev & Feed per min

Cycle Screen

I added an optional stop button M30

I added a dro to show the Rapid feed rate override

I added buttons for 10, 20 ,50 100% to slow rapids to the shown percentage so no heart attacks when first running code

A verify button but not sure if its working

Settings page

A button to Set Steps Per Axis (Why wasn't it already there)

Phil

Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Hood on January 09, 2011, 04:29:35 PM
One thing I have wanted for a while and just added it last night is a page that has tool/offset numbers and the description next to it. This is very handy as it lets me quickly look without having to scroll through the ToolTable. The descriptions are updated each time you look at the page so if you change anything in the ToolTable it is displayed correctly next time you look at that page.

This may not be something every one would find useful but for people with Auto Turrets with repeatable tooling and those with QC toolposts it may be handy so thought I would mention it.

Sat up to 3am doing the VB for the button then talked to Graham this morning and he showed me how to do it in 4 lines instead orf 100 ;D

Hood
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: M250cnc on January 09, 2011, 04:36:02 PM
Screen Grabs

Phil
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: rcaffin on January 09, 2011, 04:37:40 PM
The screen which comes with Mach3Turn is very annoying to use with its jumping back and forth between the screens.

The Lathe screen works, but having to jump around as described is rather annoying.
M3M is better than Turn.

Cheers
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: RICH on January 09, 2011, 05:11:26 PM
DaOne,
Quote
tell me what your thoughts

I am completely open minded at this point. Looking for suggestions and we'll have  time to discuss in detail in the other thread.  

RICH
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: RICH on January 09, 2011, 06:02:58 PM
Where's Scott.... any thoughts on the matter?
RICH
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: DMBGO on January 09, 2011, 06:32:21 PM
Hi Phil,
You have already implemented a lot of the things that I would have liked to see in the lathe screens. Is there a chance you could post your latest screenset?

Cheers
Dave
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: poppabear on January 10, 2011, 06:23:13 PM
Hey Rich, Phil, others.......

   My screen, all I did was move all the funcs/buttons of the OEM lathe screen, the ones you use, and a few oddball buttons, on the main page since I hate jumping around.  I didn't make any custom buttons, or vb outside of what was on the OEM lathe screens. It was just a quicky, version to do day to day lathe work, thus the "Practical" aspect of it.
   I purposely, left ALOT of open space and even comment about that fact in the original release for others to "Add to it" as they saw fit, i.e. extra axis, extra this ro that what ever. Reason being that there are some many ways that people like to use thier screens and the way they work, that it would be impossible, or at least improbably to make everyone happy.......   So, my though, was put on the basics, plus a few of the lesser used stuff, but leave some space so Who-ever could add a "Kanuter-value" or an "Allen Bradley Recabulator" if they wanted....

     personally, I really dont have a dog in this fight, and gladley admit, that at best, I am a hobbie level user of the lathe. BUT!!!  I can do the VB macros, graphics, wizards, macro pumps, brains, plugins........ what ever the final verdict is on this stuff........
I have a CHEEZY  "Shop Task" three in one machine that has the Lathe on it that I use. so, no real complexity there just wanted to turn some crap via CNC control.

   In the end, I will gladley be one of the "Wizards behind the curtain", on the screens/wizards that you decide you want to do.  My goal in all of this, is to make a "Standardized"  Lathe screen, that would help the largest number of users, without all the "Stupid Pet Tricks", that the current OEM screen does.....

I will be in and out, for the next 10 days, going up to WA to do some stuff wont really be back at home till after the 20th of Jan.....  so, if I dont answer right away, dont worry, I will get to it enventually.

scott
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: RICH on January 10, 2011, 08:37:42 PM
Scott,
Your talents will certainly be called upon and know that all this takes more time than folks may think.
Follow the threads and from your perspective think about the time required to do some of the things and also what someone could do or help  to reduce the effort
and not overburden yourself. Some things you are the man though. ;D
__________________________
To all:
Where the new lathe screen ends up is anyones guess. I am leaving all four threads on this subject totaly open and seeking suggestions
and not passing a go-no go on any one of the suggestions or opinions. It would be very easy to just provide one, but, this way users will
have input and see how the final product came about.

Each thread about the lathe screen is a task in itself. I know darn well that there is no one ideal screen. That is not going to limit my thinking
at this time as we  continue to "collect stuff". Some of it seems implementable on the surface but may be harder than this guy thinks.

Let me get off thread here a little as an example about the effort. I am thinking that some of the tasks can be done by a number of folks.
Certainly won't be just a few. I am not worth poop on this end for doing any kind of programing and can't test or check some of the things
on a new lathe screen if implemented. So i personally will pick and choose what i can do effectly and would hope other users do the same.

I spent a hard 16 hours ( not complaining )  just scanning the info which was posted in three lathe threads and never even got to make comments on the wizards yet.
As an example, there are about 45 wizards were the code has been modifed  such that say 38 of them will post code
with comments and should be good for both radius and diameter mode ( that in itself was probably a PITA, , but the task is hopefully done,  ).
 Now to just check them out, say 45 wizards x 2 backplots each  = 90 things to do x 20 minutes each= 30 hours of happy effort, and we haven't even
created a new one or created new screens for them, etc, etc. So we will need more than just a few to do all this.

BTW, I'm just a hobbiest also, my lathe can be used daily or just collect dust for weeks, but one never knows what needs they will have in the future so those
users working at a higher level of lathe use really need to chime in with comments. 

Just some thoughts on it all,
RICH


Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: DaOne on January 10, 2011, 09:09:06 PM
Well.. how do we start getting the ball rolling. I think it sounds for the most part people want most everything required to run a program on one page. No flipping around. I myself would love a conversational programming interface so I don't have to break out cad/cam to do something simple. As for layout I personally like something along the lines of Gerry's mill screen set shown here...


http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,17004.0.html

Something you just look at and you know how to use if you have ever used a CNC lathe. Very simple and elegant on the first page but if you need more you go deeper into it and its there.
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: DMBGO on January 10, 2011, 09:16:13 PM
Hi Rich, where are all these existing wizards? Would it be worthwhile collating them into one location, then they could be tested / researched, to see what we already have.
Perhaps someone could act as a project manager and assign testing tasks, milestones and  goals to individuals?

Cheers
Dave
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: RICH on January 10, 2011, 09:40:57 PM
Quote
how do we start getting the ball rolling

By waiting for comments, just need to give it some time.  :)

RICH

 




Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: RICH on January 10, 2011, 09:53:48 PM
Dave,
I have the modified ones and have started compiling a list which will be posted in the other thread on wizards.
So it should be easy to implement what you suggested. Maybe in a day or two......

RICH
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Dan13 on January 11, 2011, 01:53:09 AM
Wes,

The conversational interface as you call it, will be very good. Most of the work I do on the lathe I don't use any CAM, just the wizards or manual coding. And I also like the look of Gerry's new mill screen. Looks very clean and easy to look at.

Dan
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: M250cnc on January 11, 2011, 05:39:58 AM
Quote
And I also like the look of Gerry's new mill screen. Looks very clean and easy to look at.

Dan

Do you think he will mind if we nicked it.  :P ??? >:(

I am not a fan of flashy screens and Gerrys is very very good but he is finding out that people want more

So as soon as more goes on a page things have to be reduced in size and you upset the peeps who liked it as it was.

So maybe the new screen could come in various flavours so that more peeps can be satisfied

I agree with Scotts statement that he just moved stuff around to suit his way of working as its a lot easier than starting from scratch

Phil
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Dan13 on January 11, 2011, 01:57:53 PM
No nicking ;) , but it's just a good example of a good screen, I think. Besides, his is a mill screen while we need a lathe screen.

Dan
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: RICH on January 11, 2011, 05:47:00 PM
Maybe when we really get into it all we'll find that if we  know in advance what would be the most complex screen set with all bells and whisles
and you know where and how all should be placed, then at some point you can create a few screen sets along the way beginner, intermediate, advanced....
Just thinking out load as you would need to know where your going before you start.

RICH


Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: DaOne on January 12, 2011, 01:30:20 AM
I asked if he had any planes for a lathe screen. He said he didnt own a lathe so no plans for one. Maybe someone could get his blessing to mutate his screen into a lathe version. I would be up to the task of modifying it if needed.
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: poppabear on January 12, 2011, 10:07:22 PM
Ok, here is some suggestions

    It would be easy to "Implement" a single Screen set, that has all three (or more, or less), levels of use types.
i.e. Simple, intermediate and Advanced.

Since you have 50 pages, in screen designer, you could have the first few with the "simple" screen set, the next few with the "intermediate" set, and some later pages with the "Advanced/all the bells and whistles" set...

you could add "INterface Type", macros in the "Init" script area, there would be 3 "Init" scripts the user could choose from" Simple screen, Intermediate screen, or advanced screen.

there would be 3 different Macros Lets say the Macros: m2001, m2002, m2003 (for simple, intermediate, advanced respectively). what they would do, is when Mach starts up, the script would run a "Goto Page #" in vb script. so the user would see his "Level" of the main run screen, all the buttons in that set, would only navigate around that level of screen set.  (if you wanted you could put some CHEAT buttons in the Diagnostics area, that they could go to one of the other screen set areas, during a run time without haveing to reboot, or run the screen level select macxro in the MDI, or VB scripter.

scott
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: RICH on January 12, 2011, 10:36:49 PM
Scott,
That certainly would satisfy a broad range of users. To make things easy I am guessing that you would just delete those items from the most cluttered and generate the simplest
screen keeping common screen items in the same place and same size for all.

RICH

Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: DaOne on January 12, 2011, 11:19:10 PM
Is there anybody that is good at graphics design helping on this project? I am thinking some type of standard GUI would be nice. Not too flashy but looks professional.  Scott, I love the idea of user level screens. Sure it would fit the bill for many more people this way.
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: DaOne on January 12, 2011, 11:26:14 PM
Here is a whole bunch of UI kits. Most are based on cell phone. This may actually be a good thing since most cell phones of today are geared for touch screen use. If we can agree on a look maybe next a feature list. Then what features should be where and so on...

http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2010/08/27/free-wireframing-kits-ui-design-kits-pdfs-and-resources/
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: poppabear on January 13, 2011, 01:14:28 AM
The ULTIMATE guy, ( in my book at least ), for Graphic Design is: Jason "Zealous" Blake. The man is the Yoda of Graphics (and flash for that matter).

Perhaps, pimp him, Rich and Daone and see if he would be interested.

There are others here, who are also good with the: "Real Draw Pro" software.

I use Real Draw, Fireworks, or Flash but agiain, the King is Jay....

scott

Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: poppabear on February 02, 2011, 07:39:31 AM
so.......... is the Lathe Project dead?

scott
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: RICH on February 02, 2011, 05:54:32 PM
Hi Scott,
Well we gave it some time , about 3 weeks , I haven't seen a whole lot of interest other than the few that replied.
Haven't been on the site much in the last week due to flu so don't know what's happening.

RICH
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: DMBGO on February 02, 2011, 05:57:34 PM
I really hopre this doesn't die, perhaps the lack of interest just reflects the time of year? People on holidays etc.
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: DaOne on February 03, 2011, 01:48:21 PM
I am still very interested and should have a little free time coming up. I just need a direction to go. I haven't really got a clue what to start working on.
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: RGB Specialties on February 04, 2011, 01:11:31 PM
Quite interested myself, Lathe has been the dirty stepchild of mach too long, would be nice to see it get a face lift on the screens. I've been using a lathe screen that is based on Scotts Practical Lathe screen that I've modified lightly to suit me. I do like the ideas you are discussing too, During development of a new screen I just hope you all shy away from graphically adding fake glare on DRO's and Buttons, while those effects are quite beautiful in the office, the added fake glare makes the real glare in the shop worse.
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: poppabear on February 04, 2011, 05:19:01 PM
Ok, lets do this then, Lets do a "Poll" and put up all the "Lathe Screens"  on the poll.
Personally, I don't really which one you pick, my thought is let put out a "Blurb" on the Mach Yahoo, and General thread section on this forum asking Lathe users to "Vote" on thier favorite lathe screen. Lets first submit a list of potiential canidates i.e.: my screen, blue lathe, gers, phils, daones, etc.......  those who sell thier screens commercially, and dont want them submitted then dont submit those.

Once the "Poll" is up, and let it run for a week or so, then the "Winner" will be used as a "Base Project", we will then take that Base Lathe Project screen, then between all the participants once a Winner is picked, lets then submit, what is wanted Added, removed changed..... etc.

From there, I dont mind doing a "Beta Revision" of that screen i.e. makeing sure all the functionallity is there, BUT, I am NOT an "Eye Candy"/graphics guy, so once the functioning skeleton is there, then one of you Glamor boys can make it look good........

Note: Once the "Finalized" version is done, I suggest that we "ADD" all the Lathe specific Wizards (that are not currently OEM), and make an installer package that would install
a functioning example: lathe XML, Screen set, Bitmaps, AddOns/Wizards, Macros etc, I dont mind doing a MSI installer for the community.

Note2: If the interest is there, I could do this screen in Flash as well, for those wanting to save on CPU usuage.

Just some thoughts,

Scott
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: rcaffin on February 04, 2011, 06:02:28 PM
Hi Guys

I am very interested, because the current standard lathe screen is a bit of a pain at times. But I have zero experience with the screen design side of things and can't contribute there.

I will comment that some improvements to the Tool Table screen would be nice. I am trying to use a 4-head tool holder for repetitive production work, and setting it up each time is a real PITA. Trouble is, while it has 4 tool posts, the tools in each post can change between jobs.

Also, the manual tool movement (ie from the KB) having just full-speed and whatever dead slow crawl sped has been set can be very frustrating. A third intermediate speed would be so  nice.

Cheers
Roger
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Overloaded on February 04, 2011, 07:32:34 PM
That's a pretty good idea Poppa.
I've been using your "Simple"screen all along, with a couple mods. Wanted to do more but won't take the time to. So, I thought I better chime in here to support the endeavor.
 I'll post the additions/ changes I made shortly.
I hope this doesn't die, it is badly needed.
Russ
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: RGB Specialties on February 04, 2011, 07:49:58 PM
As I said in an earlier post I'm using a modified popabear screen from Scott. I really liked his interface and clear high contrast display. I did change some things to make it fit me more personally for my liking and my machine. Note the graphics are still crude.
Eye candy as its been described is a certainly something that will not find it's way into my garage PC no matter how pretty it looks in the office. Being able to customize a little is also important in my opinion. I cannot imagine there being a one size fits all when it comes to a lathe screen

Attaching the front screen I'm using
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: rcaffin on February 04, 2011, 08:29:31 PM
As I said in an earlier post I'm using a modified popabear screen from Scott. I really liked his interface and clear high contrast display. I did change some things to make it fit me more personally for my liking and my machine.
Attaching the front screen I'm using

That's rather nice. Can one get a copy of the screen set?

Cheers
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Overloaded on February 04, 2011, 09:19:35 PM
Here are a couple adjustments I've made.
Added a TOUCH dro for each axis
TAB button
 Tool Change LED
Soft limits Toggle and LED
And a parts counter

Others pending..............
Russ
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: poppabear on February 05, 2011, 06:00:53 PM
Hmmmm, both of you, nice mods!!
Just a side note as well, the "TAB" activated screen can also be "Large" in realestate size as welll by dragging it out.......  so if you wanted to move some of the LOW USE items, i.e. Front/Rear tool post, etc...... to the FLY OUT page, those new open spots on the page could be filled with otehr stuff, or.... stuff moved around what ever....... obvioulsy Joggin can be keep on the fly out as well.

Like I said, "Practical Lathe" was not meant for sexy, just Brutal work. My attemp at it was to put stuff that you need to use day to day for doing real work.
My eyes are OLD, so I made the buttons, dros, labels larger......... but, they could be made slightly smaller, to get more space or perhaps re-arranged...
I tried to put the Kitchen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vance_Miller) sink for the Lathe all on the single main page.......  but alot of that stuff........  is not neccessarily needed, and could be moved to the FLY OUT page (page 50).

OR............   Lets do the Poll thing and see what people would rather use as a base........
Another idea is, to get someting done in a group of people, some one needs to do something......... hehehehe
So, another option might be for all the lathe/screen people here, to take the Base "Practical" lathe set, modify, repost it then the next Lathe screen guy, gets it and add/changes what ever, then he repost.........

So, we could each of use, get it and change it, then repost it, then everyone comment on it, then the next guy takes that, and "Implements" those changes plus puts thier touches on it....... etc. then repost, comments..... then the next guy.....  Changes could also be UNDONE if not liked......

Currently, I am seeing about what 6 mabey 7 Lathe Screen designers here........ on the entire forum, who have put forth a lathe screen!!!

Lets get those guys, here..... send them IMs tell them to please participate.........  also HEAVY users like: HOOD, and Graham and others who may not necessarily like or submitting Lathe screen work, BUT, have TONS of day to day production experience that they could submit ideas for improvement...... perhaps those same guys could also do some "Real World" testing....... and feedback....  at some point, we will get to a consensus screen set......
which will just WORK..........  then we could let the "EYE CANDY" guys take that screen and put the GEE-WIZ on it, BUT, you would KEEP both screens sets.....
you could have one for simple contrast guys, and one for the guys that like the Zebra colored DROS with Furry backgound maps........

So, lets start this off now, if you want to just run with and MOD the CRAP out of Practical then here is a preposed "Designer" list to start, (and if I leave anyone off, just ADD YOURSELF!!!

1st guy up to bat:
   DaONe
2cd Guy
   Phil
3rd Guy
   Ger
4th guy
   M250cc
5th guy
   who ever else wants to put up, or shut up

Lathe Screen Testers/Users "Guru Lathe Guys"

    Rich, Overloaded, Graham, Hood.......  others?



scott


Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: OzzieII on February 06, 2011, 08:37:32 AM
Hi All,
Just got here.
I made a request on the Mach Yahoo group that there should be a page for wizards rather than the standard access route which is too slow. Someone pointed out that Phil made a screen set which has such a page. I downloaded it and found it still too slow. But, I also discovered why, and a simple fix. The wizards were written as SCREEN SETS! It appears that Phil has pulled them apart and put them on a page, and in fact choosing a particular one, is choosing another page; GREAT. But the slow part is that the exit button loads a standard screen set; written that way because previously, (BP; before Phil) you were in a "wizard set".
If that exit button is simply changed to go to the "run" page number via OEM code, Phil"s set achieves the speed I was hoping for.

Now if I dare, I have couple Wizard wishes.
I think that on all Turn wizards, there should be:
A TOOL NUMBER dro
An APPEND button, so that the currently generated code appends the file rather than replacing it; like the New Fangled mill set.
A SPRING PASSES dro

I'd also like a speeds & feeds, surface speed, wizard.

Jerry "Ozzie" Pryor
Old Curmudgeon
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: poppabear on February 28, 2011, 08:56:47 AM
So, I guess this thread has died again...... anyone? lots of ideas..... anyone want to do a base screen set? or say what to put on a base set?
where to starts, who to start....... etc........

scott
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: OzzieII on February 28, 2011, 10:42:50 AM
Hi Scott,
Looks dead to me.
Everyone's wants are diversified, as evidenced above. Even the set I'm using that I designed for myself doesn't do all I want; design time too demanding.
Parts of my set, (probing in turn), will be published in Digital Machinist, spring issue. By summer I'll put it up here, but there will be many objections; too cluttered,  buttons too small, color doesn't follow a theme, etc., etc., etc.
Maybe the Mach Turn community is just too small to get to a consensus set.

Ozzie
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: DaOne on February 28, 2011, 12:11:52 PM
Sorry guys.. I am still working on mine..had my Haas VF-2 burn out a board due to a friend plugging in a 4th axis board backwards. Needless to say my focus was on repairing CNC computers for the past week as I was quoted over $10,000 to have it fixed. :o Good news is I actually fixed it! Only had to replace 37 ICs across 5 boards to do so... 160 volts into a 5 volt logic gate has the effect it seems. Anyways... I will be plugging on it again this week. Don't want to release anything quite yet as I don't want anyones machine to crash on my macros. I know it wont fill everyones needs but I hope it will help many. I hope I am not the only one still working on this?
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: poppabear on March 04, 2011, 07:14:51 AM
anyone?..... Bueller?...... Bueller?..... Bueller?.........

Is there any interest in this, I don't mind putting forth a Base functional screen, but......  the other Rodeo Clowns need to get in the barrel as well....

How about this, lets pic ONE page at a time, lets start with baby steps maybe.....

Here is a preposed what should go on Page one:

1. X/Z dros (medium to large size) with Zero button, and ref LED and home buttons.
2. Touch off dros & tool # dro with tool table access button
3. spindle speed with whats on the current set (practical lathe), typical spindle stuff, plus maybe CW/CCW/Spindle stop buttons/LEDs.
4. Feed Rate stuff typical.
5. program control: usual buttons/LEDs
6. Work Control and status area: Coolent, coor. display, limit ovrs, etc?
7. G code window, Toolpath, MDI, Mach Message label (perhaps small(er) windows on the Toolpath/gcode?

Please add, subtract, anything to this list for Page One (the main Run page).

scott

Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: OzzieII on March 04, 2011, 08:41:45 AM
Fire away!
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Dan13 on March 04, 2011, 10:41:57 AM
Hi Scott,

I for one, would like to see a normal FRO, like in mill. A one that works on a percentage basis and not a one that adds increments of feedrate.

Also, on the main screen I would like to see the current tool number and offset and an LED showing if the offset is enabled. You mentioned the tool number DRO, so only add the offset DRO and the LED.

I also liked the G94/G95 buttons and LEDs on the boave Ozzie's screen.

Dan
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: poppabear on March 11, 2011, 10:09:48 AM
DaONe?  Phill?  anyone?  Are you guys going to post a "BASE" screen, or do you want me to post one?

scott
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: poppabear on March 14, 2011, 09:25:32 AM
hmmmm,

    Ok, I guess no one wants to put up a starter one, so........   I will work on an initial "New Lathe" screen set.
I am looking over Phils, Jerrys, and others who have put forth work and/or suggestions. I am building some "Bit Maps" to go with it including Page Background bitmaps.

     Since, the original thought, was to also "Add" pages that have the "Wizards" as pages as opposed to add one, I have added a "Wizards" navigation button/page. When you press that button, you are taken to a page that would have all the wizards listed (as buttons), that depending on which one you want, you press that button. Then goto that wizards set of pages.  I was thinking of using 1900 to 19xx Ranges for the Screen sets overall control functions for DROs and LEDs, since the lower ranges are currently already used in the current OEM Wizard sets, and the 2000+ ranges are used by pokeys and stuff like that.......  no big deal really, since the ranges of screen or other User space ranges can be changed in plugins (in general).

scott
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: DMBGO on March 14, 2011, 09:54:13 PM
Sounds good Scott,
I am glad you're making a start. If you need some testing done, please let me know

Cheers
Dave
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: poppabear on March 16, 2011, 03:58:52 PM
Ok,

    Here is my "Main Page" to the "1024_New_Lathe.lset", tell me what you think.

Scott
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Dan13 on March 16, 2011, 04:25:45 PM
Looks good, Scott.

A few things I'd change:

1. I think the "reverse run" button is not needed in Turn.
2. The axes DROs are too small in my opinion.
3. Add a tool offset number DRO.
4. Add an LED showing if the tool offset is active.
5. Spindle CW and CCW arrows look like "Undo" "Redo" ;-).
6. Don't understand some of the buttons (or are they LEDs...): Ind., Thr., Timg., W4T

Dan
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: battwell on March 16, 2011, 04:33:27 PM
like it. nice layout
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Overloaded on March 16, 2011, 06:08:30 PM
Couple questions Scott,
What is the dual up/dn arrow buttons for in the Spindle Speed dialog ?
Is there no ref axis button ? Or would you ref independently with "X Homed", "Z Homed" and "Z Ref" ? (assuming they are buttons ?)

Looks good so far. The auqua is a bit bright for me tho.
Thanks,
Russ
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: DMBGO on March 16, 2011, 06:52:43 PM
The screen is looking pretty full, but quite comprehensive. I was thinking about what I do when I turn the lathe on and the first thing is to reference the axis. I cant see the Home/reference buttons, but i might be suffering from selective blindness.
The rest looks good thanks Scott
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Hood on March 16, 2011, 07:07:29 PM
Scott, just an idea to save space, if you have the LEDs as dual images for such things as G94/G95 etc, thats what I do on my screen. Mine look like buttons but they are actually LEDs, see image below.
Hood
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Hood on March 16, 2011, 07:12:16 PM
Oh and just in case you are not familiar, heres what the ES/CV looks like on screen, as you can see only the active LED shows, in this case CV.
Hood
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: poppabear on March 16, 2011, 07:48:04 PM
All the "Ref Axis" and any other button function that is associated with an LED, is a "Dual Function" LED-Button.

so basically, any button you see on there, that has a "built in" LED at the right side of the button, plus, any square LED, plus the LED's that are around the function buttons at the bottom, or Page navigation at the right are "Dual Image" LEDs.

The Up and Down arrows, second set below the Reset SOVR button, is to increment up/dn the programmed Spindle speed.

see second scxreen shot where you can see the dual state of the Ref/home button/leds

scott
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: zafarsalam on March 16, 2011, 09:54:05 PM
Scott,

I've tried this cyan on grey color scheme for my mill screens. This looks good on the desktop pc but doesn't give a good effect in the workshop environment. I am planning to convert a lathe in the workshop. Whenever it's complete I'll try this screen set there.

Zafar
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: archcomp on March 17, 2011, 02:42:18 AM
Scott,
It is good and comprehensive screen for Lathe. Now, how can I try it practically?
Mahesh Vyas.
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: RGB Specialties on March 17, 2011, 04:27:48 AM
Items i see missing is a Jog mode button and LED to indicate current mode. You probably rely on the tab key to bring up another screen like many screens in the past, however jog mode is something i prefer on the main screen and not have to toggle another screen up to get to it. Looks pretty good other wise, I to would like to see DRO for X,Z, A larger and colors set for better contrast. 

A lathe screen is something I'll monitor from 4-5 foot away while controlling operation from the keypad pendant I use to operate and control. Larger DRO's, being able to determine current state and settings from a distance is important for me. I do LIKE how you chosen NOT to use artificial glare on the dro's and buttons too.
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: poppabear on March 17, 2011, 08:58:03 AM
The screen shot is for the "Main" or Run page. I have NOT even started on the other pages.

Here is what I need to know from "You" (the lathe community):

1). I picked the Light cyan back ground, for the DROS, Labels, MDI, and G-code window that would give a good contrast to the Black text letters/numbers. IF the cyan (light blue), is TOO bright, or is unliked in General, then, someone recommend an alternative color ( I would need RGB setting, Hue, saturation and luminosity).

2). Enlarged DROS for Axis:  Currently they are 30 pixels in ht., I can make them mabey 35 with the current layout, but to go bigger would require a complete Redesign of the entire page lay out, since space is at a premimum. NOTE: an opiton may be to just put the X and Z dros in that space, and put the A DRO where the PILE of LEDs are to the right of it, mabey choose NOW what LEDs will be sacrifced off of the front page...... There are some LEDs there (i.e. the threading diagnostic LEDs that I could move to the "Diagnostics" page instead of the front page, and that may open up a space for the A DRO to live in, and be larger as well.  If I move the A DRO over, I could probably go as large as 50-60 pixels ht. but it would be a tighter fit, 60 would probably be the max though, and if I increase in ht, then I have to also increase the Width, which will cause MORE LEDs to be moved out.........

3). Jog indicator/control stuff: Yes I was going to put that on a Fly out (TAB) page..........   But if the community is wanting JOG status and controls on the main page, then, Where to put them, and WHAT will have to be sacrificed again. I can "Shrink" overall control size, from the 30 pixel hts, to 20 pixel hts. that would open up more space, but the text on the LED/Buttons would by necessity be smaller.

4). BETA screen Release:  When we get the above issues resolved, and I add the "Other Pages", I will release a BETA screen for try out and comments.

5). LATHE screen Users and Designers:  i.e. DaOne, Phil, Overloaded, Hood, Graham, etc.........   Please feel free to offer to HELP, or test, or make suggestions. The hope at least in my mind, is to make a "Practical" screen, that can be used easily Day to Day, without alot of poking around. I was wanting to keep the MAIN page to have the absolute What you REALLY need, to operate the lathe for work, and to move the Extra less daily use things to other screens.

6). I would also note that I am using the UDRO and ULED ranges 1900-1999 for INTERNAL screen use/functions.

7). Taken #6 above, Can someone who has moved the Lathe Wizards, Like in Phils screen (or Phil you can do this), send me a fully working screen sets with the wizards (bit maps, etc.) IF you want your wizards added to this set.

8). I had planned to move all the Turn Add on Wizards to the higher number screens, but I see that PHIL has already done this. BUT, Phils work is Phils work..... If he wants me in essence "copy paste" his Wizard sets into this screen I will (it would save me ALOT of work). If not, then I will just add the OEM Wizards/bitmaps into the screen set now.

NOTE!!!!:   Not complaining here, BUT!!!!, this is a BETA project, I really DON'T want to "Worry" about small details at this time. I just want to get a overall GENERAL lathe screen set OUT!!!  Things like: I dont like this color, or this or that LED should be here, or NOT here...... UNLESS it really impacts the FUNCTIONALITY/USABILITY of the screen set. We will put that kinda stuff off till another day........   Once the New "Maybe" OEM set is done ( I guess it would depend on if Brian likes it ). Users can then change colors, or add/subtract the little detail things.

Let me know something..............   Also you original LATHE set screen designers that chimed in on this thread, E-Mail me at: poppabear(AT)hughes(dot)net  I know who you are, so put both your screen name and real name.......  I will send you the "Alpha" set I currently have.........

As an alternative: if you would prefer to use YOUR screen set(s), then please let it be known!!!! You can then send out YOUR screen set so the rest of use designers can modify it, and resubmit it.......

NOTE2: For screen designers that email me above:  I am using "Real Draw Pro", so if you want to Mod and help finish this set, I will send you the .rdw files on it also. I am using Mach Screen (Klaus's) designer.

scott


Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: RICH on March 17, 2011, 06:10:23 PM
1. The cyan background is to bright for me and would prefer  it dimmed.
2. The dro's are fine and definelty leave the A axis on there. I assume the Zero buttons are for
    "world".
3. Have become accustomed to Phil's screen with the jog button and the indication of which mode. C/S/M could be used on the indicator light to save space.
4.Add just a light indicating which mode your in, ie; R or D in a box?
5.Program / Machine / Part as a selection of what the dro's are displaying....Not knowing what the run screen looks like maybe they belong there. Could also just be three smaller buttons in place of the machine cor. off button?
6. Possible to have an enlarged screen for code and display/ pop up?
7.As far as the wizards, i have not had time to go in and check each one ........ and there are more than the standard ones. For threading just include yours and the standard one so a user can select which to use ( keeps it simple ).

RICH
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: poppabear on March 18, 2011, 07:52:23 AM
Hey Rich, (and others),

>1. The cyan background is to bright for me and would prefer  it dimmed.

Ok, I got this form several, so, would you or someone suggest a color (and put the values for it)?

>2. The dro's are fine and definelty leave the A axis on there. I assume the Zero buttons are for
    "world".

Yes the Zero buttons are for World.

>3. Have become accustomed to Phil's screen with the jog button and the indication of which mode. C/S/M could be used on the indicator light to save space.

So, to be clear, you (and others), want the "Jog Controls", on the page with indicators (i.e. leds)? if so, where do you want them rough area? I will have to compact the Spindle control area, and Feed area, maybe even the Program control area, (i.e. reduce button sizes, and re-arrange space).

>4.Add just a light indicating which mode your in, ie; R or D in a box?

There is already a "Rad. or Diam." LED on the screen set in the LED area to the right of the DROs.

>5.Program / Machine / Part as a selection of what the dro's are displaying....Not knowing what the run screen looks like maybe they belong there. Could also just be three smaller buttons in place of the machine cor. off button?

I understand the difference between Program and Machine DRO display, but have never understood what the "Part" is or how to use it, can you send me a more detailed explanation? Will be glad to add it, just need to understand what/why/how it is used.

>6. Possible to have an enlarged screen for code and display/ pop up?

Don't understand what you mean by this one, can you explain it better? The screen set is standard 1024x768..... ?

>7.As far as the wizards, i have not had time to go in and check each one ........ and there are more than the standard ones. For threading just include yours and the standard one so a user can select which to use ( keeps it simple ).

Was planning on including the OEM wizards, plus mine, and..........  anyone elses?

NOTE: I sent to Phil, my screen sets and Bitmaps, since he emailed me off list, and offered many good suggestions.... some similar to yours (and others).
He ( I think ), may look it over, and give me ideas on how to implement them, or he may make the changes himself. I haven't heard back from him since I sent them to him only yesterday, and this screen stuff takes TIME.

Scott
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Overloaded on March 18, 2011, 08:19:33 AM
A more gentle blue for consideration.
Russ
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: poppabear on March 18, 2011, 09:32:54 AM
Color is a hot topic, here is two screen shots, for two other color choices,

a Green color one,

and the Nicer blue sent in by Overloaded........  ( I am kinda partial to this one ).

so, you fellers take a look at these two other choices, it appears that both of them are more muted than my LOUD choice..... hehehehe

Scott
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: poppabear on March 18, 2011, 09:37:27 AM
oh, btw, I forgot to mention, if you look at the Z axis, the selected color for the green is a light yellow, and the selected for the new blue is white.

PLEASE: let me know, what of the Jog controls (buttons, dros and LEDs) that you want on the main page........  so I can make some room.

I can reclaim some space by moving around the spindle and feed controls, also, I can change the button/dro sizes in the Program congtrol, spindle control and feed control to 20 pixel ht, from the current 30 pixel ht.......  that would give me more room to add in the Jog stuff.........

Also: Several have said to:

1). Remove the Reverse run
2). Remove the "Mist" coolant

So I will remove those and replace them with two other functions, will take suggesions on what two function buttons to put there instead.

NOTE: a guy said that my spindle CW and CCW arrows look like the undo and redo arrows on windows........  so........  If those and any other ICONs bother you, PLEASE submit a .PNG Icon of your design.....  the ones I used come stock in the Real Draw Pro.......  I no longer have a working copy of "Fireworks", to do Icons in. I will ask Jay, if he would like to submit some, depends on how buiz he is.......... work from others if you feel like submitting for comment is appreciated.

scott

Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Dan13 on March 18, 2011, 11:22:01 AM
The green background looks awful in my opinion. The blue is fine.

Also, what about these two things I mentioned in reply #54:

Add a tool offset number DRO.
Add an LED showing if the tool offset is active.

Are you going to consider this?

Dan
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: poppabear on March 18, 2011, 01:36:27 PM
Dan, what OEM dro number is the tool offset dro you want, same for tool offset active led, I will add them,

thanks for the Blue is ok comment, so I guess the Overloaded Blue it is.........

scott
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: RGB Specialties on March 18, 2011, 02:32:59 PM
I find the lighter Blue must easier on the eyes. Thank you. Black on Blue improves the contrast. It maybe just the Font, but looks like some of the text is set to grey on blue resulting in reduced contrast?

I'm casual Hobbyist Lathe and Mill user on a small 3-N-1 machine I'm sure many of the users who are more commercial type users input would be more valid? or at least more complete towards developing a minimum must have main screen. At least maybe my comments will encourage others to add their own input? Hope so anyhow.

For jog controls at least for me I would like to see at a minimum Jog on/off toggle and a jog mode toggle between Continuous, Step and and Select the amount of step to use from the Jog step in mach's config.  I'll use .005, .001 and .0005 mostly to sneak up on a part to then set part (program) zeros.  I am sure many would want the MPG mode setting there also even though I don't use it. the the Sample screen JPG i posted a few messages back you can see what I have currently set

When I get my tool holder isolated electrically I plan on setting up a touch macro to sense when I touch the tool to the part then set part zero. SOMEDAY anyhow. Hopefully I'll be able to first touch off on the end of the stock then face it, then touch off on the X of the stock take a skim cut to insure stock roundness then set both my X and Z part zeros to prepare for the actual part run and execute. When and If I get this done, I hope to add a button along the bottom of the screen to call the macro which in function would be similar to the mill touch off macros

For coolant isn't it necessary only to have coolant on/off buttons? Where the config under spindle setup in mach it's self allows individual users to customize to output for either flood, mist or both? Myself I only use mist and not set up for flood coolant at all. Coolant on lathe is sometime I'll rarely use in the first place although there are times when it's required depending upon material.  In the wizards  and my CAD program to develop G-code I've found that I usually have the option to select (wizards) or control the type of coolant generate the proper M output via a setting in the CAD post processor.
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Graham Waterworth on March 19, 2011, 07:28:36 AM
As a full time industrial user of mills lathes and mill turns the idea of using a screen like this is ridiculous, it's over complicated and cluttered. That makes it dangerous, a run screen should be just the buttons you need to run the program, setting up should be done on a second screen.

All I would want on a run screen is a g-code listing, cycle start, cycle stop, single block, optional stop, feed override, speed override, a button to offsets page and E-stop that's it, clean clear and simple anything else can be on a set up screen.

A CNC machine can be operated in one of two modes, set up mode and production mode, in set up mode you can have all the buttons and flashing lights you want as a trained setter is in the process of setting the job up for production.  In production mode an operator is using the machine and all he/she needs to know is how to start the process and how to stop it if something goes wrong or needs changing. The setting side of the machine and control is locked away from the operator.

Now, in the hobby market there are no rules because the CNC machine is probably never going to go in to production mode and the operator is the setter, in most cases the machine is used rarely and the user has had no formal training so every time the machine is used it's a learning experience and that is why they feel that every DRO, button and LED should be on one screen that way they don't have to look for them.

That is how I see things, I am sure you all have your own way of working and I am not saying who is right or wrong just don't try to mix hobby and professional systems as they require totally different screen layouts.

Graham
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Dan13 on March 19, 2011, 10:56:29 AM
Agree with you, Graham. Although having everything possible on the run page may sound more convenient, it may not be the most safe and fool-proof thing. The current MachTurn OEM screen has serious problems though. Main issue with it is the way the navigation between screens is done (you can't just go from any page to a particular one) and having too many of them. Another serious drawback in my opinion is the lack of an MDI on the Run page and Offsets page.

Too bad you posted to late, but if others agree, and most importantly, if Scott agrees, may be the prototype screen he's done can be still changed to have less unneeded stuff.

Dan
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Dan13 on March 19, 2011, 11:04:47 AM
Scott,

The LED Tool Offset 'ON' is 28.

As for the Tool Offset DRO, I think there is no OEM DRO for that. At least I haven't found one. Got to be a trick to do that though.

Dan
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: poppabear on March 19, 2011, 11:11:19 AM
Graham,

    Ok, thanks for your imput, I will DE-Clutter the run page to what you say, and put a "Set Up" page that has all the clutter, it is NO BIG deal at all, to use the screen navigation buttons to the right side!!

Any other stuff on the Run screen, that you would want to see there? I.e. indicatior LEDs? or ?

scott
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Graham Waterworth on March 19, 2011, 11:15:47 AM
Scott,

do not change it based on what I say, I for one will never use it as I have my own screen sets, design it for what the masses want, I was only pointing out that a screen can not be all things to all users.

Graham
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: RGB Specialties on March 19, 2011, 11:33:05 AM
I cannot disagree with Graham a production machine should be simple and the setup locked away from the operator does nothing more than hit a start button, Watch, wait and repeat as necessary. You could train a Chimpanzee to do that.  Then, like he points out many are hobbyist operators who never make production runs of a part in quantities of more than one. I fall into his category of no formal training and serving as both the operator and the setter as well as Designer, Cad operator, End user, Maid and Janitor too.  This does not necessarily make me dangerous or my machine hazardous to operate.  For me having the most useful buttons on the screen isn't a matter of being to lazy to go look for them it's more of a time saver when building one off parts and using the CNC'd machine like a pseudo manual machine. Anyone up for making a real industrial production machine? Don't forget the "Reward Banana" button.
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Dan13 on March 19, 2011, 11:41:26 AM
How about adding just another Run screen that will be simplified. Calling them something like Run Pro and Run Standard? Should make everybody happy.

Dan
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Overloaded on March 19, 2011, 01:09:23 PM
Scott,

The LED Tool Offset 'ON' is 28.

As for the Tool Offset DRO, I think there is no OEM DRO for that. At least I haven't found one. Got to be a trick to do that though.

Dan

Hey Dan, is this what you are meaning ?
Russ
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Dan13 on March 19, 2011, 03:24:00 PM
Hi Russ,

No. Was not meaning this. When you program a tool change in Turn, something like T0101, this will be tool #1 with offset #1 from the tool table. If you then program T0120, this will be the same tool #1, but with offset #20 from the tool table. Now it is desired to have a DRO both for the current tool number and the current offset number. That as well as the above mentioned LED to show if the offset is active. There is a DRO for the tool number but non for the tool offset.

Dan
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: poppabear on March 20, 2011, 12:38:44 PM
Graham, and Dan, (and others),

  Ok, I will make Two Run screens, and I will set up an "Init", macro that the user can edit (or mayby a udro on a setup page), that when Mach starts up, the Init will tell it what screen set to start with, Run or Run-Pro, in the xml, they would need to check, remember DROs, or.........  the start init macro could just be hand edited for what screen is started on.

scott
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Dan13 on March 20, 2011, 12:56:28 PM
Sounds good Scott!

Dan
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: RICH on March 20, 2011, 08:48:32 PM
Scott,
Quote
So, to be clear, you (and others), want the "Jog Controls", on the page with indicators (i.e. leds)? if so, where do you want them rough area? I will have to compact the Spindle control area, and Feed area, maybe even the Program control area, (i.e. reduce button sizes, and re-arrange space).

You can do away with the reverse run button in my opinion which would provide room
for the jog control on the end. The C/S/M buttons can be smaller.
----------------
Quote

I understand the difference between Program and Machine DRO display, but have never understood what the "Part" is or how to use it, can you send me a more detailed explanation? Will be glad to add it, just need to understand what/why/how it is used.

Forget about the Part  DRO, but do add the ability to change the DRO indication from machine to program.
Not sure where as  space is a premium.
---------------
Found the radius mode button......maybe make the text part of "Mode" the button as it's as important as knowing what lathe switches are turned on.

-------------------------

What is Radius Correct?  ???


See attached screen shot,
RICH
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Overloaded on March 20, 2011, 10:27:38 PM
Hi Russ,

No. Was not meaning this. When you program a tool change in Turn, something like T0101, this will be tool #1 with offset #1 from the tool table. If you then program T0120, this will be the same tool #1, but with offset #20 from the tool table. Now it is desired to have a DRO both for the current tool number and the current offset number. That as well as the above mentioned LED to show if the offset is active. There is a DRO for the tool number but non for the tool offset.

Dan

OK Dan, I see what you mean now.
Like DRO 46 is for Mill.

I don't see one anywhere for Turn either.
Thanks,
Russ
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Hood on March 21, 2011, 03:22:37 AM
Russ there isnt one, its been requested for a long time but as usual with Turn nothing yet. Also the DROs you posted above do not show the correct offsets, they show the offset of the tool number that is active not the offset number, eg T0112, the DROs should show the values for offset 12 but they actually show the values for offset 1. It is the same for the tool description.
Maybe one day ::)
Hood
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: poppabear on March 21, 2011, 11:19:03 AM
hmmmm,

    Well, perhaps I could use VB funcs, to display the tool data tabs you want, in 1 or 2 user labels...

What data tabs do you want to display?

scot
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Dan13 on March 21, 2011, 11:24:43 AM
Scott,

I want the last 2 digits of the Txxyy word to be displayed as the offset number. The first 2 digits of is are already displayed as the tool number.

Dan
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: awander on March 24, 2011, 07:48:55 PM
My biggest gripes with the current default Turn screens mirror others I have seen in this thread-constantly jumping back and forth between screens, and it is not always easy to get to teh screen you want-sometimes it takes as many as 3 clicks. I think you should be able to get to any other screen in 1 click, no matter where you are.

Also, I would like to have FRO indication on all screens-that bit me recently while threading(and is how I discovered that FRO is no longer locked out during threading)

I have never been able to figure out what Home Z and Home X do, as opposed to Set Home Z and Set Home X, which ref the axis in question.

Zero World?? also not undestood by me.

Things I like about the screens is that they are not cluttered.
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: poppabear on March 25, 2011, 10:19:43 AM
Quote
You can do away with the reverse run button in my opinion which would provide room
for the jog control on the end. The C/S/M buttons can be smaller.

Rich, and others.....

Reverse Run button removed.
What is "C/S/M" buttons, is that Control, Spindle, M?, ?

Quote
Forget about the Part  DRO, but do add the ability to change the DRO indication from machine to program.
Not sure where as  space is a premium.

In Mill that abiltiy exist now with the standard DROs, i.e. if you push the Mach. Coor. button your current X/y/z dros in what ever work offset your in, change to mach. coor.
is this what you want/mean?

Quote
Found the radius mode button......maybe make the text part of "Mode" the button as it's as important as knowing what lathe switches are turned on.

Not following you on the above at all....  can you explain what you are saying better? The LED shows if you are in Radius or Dia. mode, I don't think I can put a Radius or Diameter
Mode label (text), into the system status/mode label, BUT, there is a Diameter/Radius mode Label.........  also a system specific label. I went with the LED indicator cause it take less
space than a label would. Are you saying you want a "Button" for a user to toggle between the two modes? if so, do you have a number for it. Or do you want a VB button that will do that for you?

Quote
What is Radius Correct?  Huh
  Opps.......  copied that over from a Mill screen.........  :-[

Others,

I am working on the lathe screen, but as many of you know it consumes ALOT of time, I am not complaiing, just asking for help here. I have to also during my day, find and do work. So, I can work on the screen here and there as time permits.
   I would like some HELP on this screen set from the community (really the ones who WANT this set to happen, and have done screen sets before). There is a HUGE pile of work to be done Especially incorporating the Wizards into the sets. I would like to have, an extra 1-4 screen designers, that would form a core group, that could work on OTHER aspects of this screen, i.e. like the embedded wizards (with the BitMaps that go with them).

I am working on getting the "Pro-Run" screen, and "Run" screen done, they will now be Screens 1 and 2 respectively, there will be a Init macro that will be with the screen that will allow the user to decide which of the two screens come up to run from......... OR!!!!!  mabey make two identical screen sets, an OEM and OEM-Pro version, the OEM would be the hobbie style "cluttered" run page version, and the PRO would be the production style run, with seperate run page.

It can be done eigther way, using macros in the page buttons, and an init macro to have BOTH types in one screen set......... but, what ever you guys think.
if we go with TWO seperate screen sets, the PRO version would have a Run page, and "Setup" page as page 2, the Hobbie version would have the cluttered run as page 1, and nothing on page 2 (so that we could really just have ONE overall master set as far as desiners go........

Graham mentioned some things that he would want to see on the Pro screen set:

Cycle Start, Stop, Feedhold, rewind file, estop, fsovr, ssovr, spindle contols, tool info, offsets table button(s)? (i.e. tool and work offsets?).

is there any other "indicators", i.e. LEDs, or Dros that would be considered NEED TO KNOW on the Production screen? If not then I will put a PRO screen out, that will
also have the "Setup" page as Page 2, and then move the currently existing screen as the OEM (hobbie) screen....

Let me know the direction your interested in going, i.e. Two different screen sets? OR,  One screen set with Two operating style options.....

The currently existing screen set, with all the Wiz-bang on the main screen is the OEM screen non-pro version, so from here before I do anymore work, which way does the community want to go?  One screen set that can do both, or two screen sets?

The more I think about it, the more I am leaning toward TWO seperate screen sets......... but, not married to it......

Tool OFFSET number DRO........  I can do this, but in a round about way, I could put a UserLabel that will show the offset number, or put a UserDRO there, and write the offset to it from the tool tabel.........  this would burn up a UDRO, no problem really since I have already claimed a ULED range for this screenset, I could claim the same range for screen use only UDROS.........  the Wizards would have to make sure that they dont step in this range.

Note on HELP!!:

If you willing to WORK/HELP on this project, i.e. start on the Wizards section, and/or other pages, Bitmaps etc. Email me.
at    PoppaBear(AT)Hughes(dot)Net
Also, include your screen name and real name, also, I will ONLY send this stuff out to people I KNOW who do screens, or
have contributed to this Thread. So, if I don't know, nor your work, you will not be included. Sorry, but I am going to keep
the core group small and limited to known designers/contributors. Max number I will limit to 5 of us. I will take overall project
lead (note not dictator, just trying to herd the Cats), to keep the project moving forward. Please ONLY those designers/contributors
who are WILLING to work!! (this includes Bitmap, PNG pref-able designers for the Wizards).
This ALSO includes those of you, how have Turn Wizards that may not be "Published" as standard Ad-ons, we can incorporate yours into
this set, IF it is something you would like to see released for general use.

scott













Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Leeway on March 25, 2011, 10:22:59 AM
A little late here, but I would like to switch screens less as well.
Using blue screen now. To unload and load code I have to revert a screen. I saw beside the cycle start that I can just go back a screen to do this, but it's not as easy as it should be.
I often run different bushings in the same day with the same parameters, so easier is better.
I was going to attempt a mod to the screen as well, but haven't been able to grasp much out of screen 4.
I am looking forward to this and will help when I can.
Thanks.

Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: poppabear on March 25, 2011, 12:05:14 PM
Leeway, (and others),

   There is two options offered please consider them. Two seperate screens, a pro and standard, vs. a single screen that can do both, but be set to display the type you want.

scott
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: OzzieII on March 25, 2011, 12:58:51 PM
Hi Scott,
Screen-sets load fairly fast, not so fast that Wizards should be a seperate set, but fast enough that two versions should not be a problem. I'm a hobby guy and want nearly all jambed into my main screen.
Thanks for your ongoing work.
Ozzie
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Dan13 on March 25, 2011, 01:06:14 PM
Hi Scott,

I don't see a functional difference between the two options you mentioned. Either way it addresses the two camps. Probably go with the easiest way to make. Two separate screens sounds easier to me...?

About the tool offset number, I only want the offset number to be shown, not the actual offset.

Dan
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Leeway on March 26, 2011, 08:39:27 AM
I have fiddled a bit with some wizards in mill, but not in turn. Not sure that I would even use them, but perhaps thats because I'm unfamiliar. It might be a good thing to learn for fast one off type turnings.
I have managed to do a partial screen before, but that leaves me in the ranks of beginner, so I won't try to offer help. Just happy to see a new solution coming about.

The blue screen isn't bad. I like the way it looks, but the screen switch is the real issue.
I understand why Art made them that way as well. Initially it was helpful to get started running a lathe with offsets, but now I want to take off the training wheels so to speak. ;)
I'll keep watching with awe and anticipation. :)
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Hood on March 26, 2011, 10:01:06 AM
I understand why Art made them that way as well.


Art didnt, it was Steve Blackmore that did the Turn screenset.
Hood
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Leeway on March 26, 2011, 10:12:57 AM
Aha. Sorry, Steve.
Thanks for the correction, Hood.
Lee
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Hood on March 26, 2011, 10:23:26 AM
Ha ha Steve has had a lot of stick for his screen over the years and he takes it well ::)
I dont like it but I will not say its crap, just not to my liking. It is a hard job making a screenset to suit the majority and it is one thing I would never do. I make my own to suit each machine, its actually quite easy and is one of the great things about Mach that you are able to do it..
Hood
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: RICH on March 26, 2011, 01:06:24 PM
Quote
What is "C/S/M" buttons, is that Control, Spindle, M?,


They  would be the small buttons next to the jog on/ off  button as shown in reply#84
allowing for changing the jog mode.
c=continous
s=step
m=mpg
Thus you could save space by just using the letters along with an indication light  and would fit in the lower right corner of the screen now that the  reverse run button is gone.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Quote
In Mill that abiltiy exist now with the standard DROs, i.e. if you push the Mach. Coor. button your current X/y/z dros in what ever work offset your in, change to mach. coor.
is this what you want/mean?
Not really....
Machine coordinates in turn always display in radius mode ( irrelevant of configured mode).
If your program code is done in diameter and also Turn is  configured in diameter....... and you want to see the DRO reflect diameter you would need to change to program coordinates.

------------------------------------------------------------
Rad. Mode ?

Just an indication of how  the user has Mach3 Turn configured.

I always look at the "switch states / the mode label" , then confirm what mode turn is configured for, then look at the files gcode ( it may state what mode the code was done for).
---------------------------------------------------------------
Two seperate screens, a pro and standard, vs. a single screen that can do both

Two seperate screens.

RICH





Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Leeway on March 26, 2011, 04:55:33 PM
I looked at Mach screen again and I think I will hold off for what you gys come up with.
I did consider using it for a mill screen or for my router, but I don't have a tool changer and change my tools with offsets manually. It works, so I didn't really need anything complicated there. Mach 3 OEM screens work great for me in both.
The lathe is a different beast. With gang or turret tools, you effectively have an auto tool changer and each tool has different offsets.
It begs to be run the proper way with all the bells and whistles available to make it work most efficiently I think.
Therefore, I would not attempt a lathe screen. Not even modify one now that I think about it. It would take some dedication to grasp that and I am glad to see you guys going through with it. I would gladly pay a bit to have a screen that does all I need and looks decent.
Oddly enough, I have found that does make a difference. Enough difference to afford a better one.

Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: poppabear on April 11, 2011, 07:15:00 PM
ok, sorry it has been a little bit......  had to do find some work....

Here is the "HOME" lathe Run screen (this is the NON-Production one, or the Hobby set, with most of the bells and whistles on the run page).

Please look it over, and comment:

per the previous postings, things were added/removed/changed till this screen set/shot.

scott
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: RICH on April 11, 2011, 08:33:13 PM
Scott,
Good job and looks like it's all there. I like the toned down blue as compared to before.
Only comment is the blaze yellow and green which are hard on my eyes and could be toned down some.

Thanks for the time and effort,
RICH
 
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Leeway on April 11, 2011, 09:25:52 PM
Something I use a lot in mill is Go To Zero.
I don't see that unless I am overlooking it, but it would be great to be able to do this. Sometimes it is confusing which axis should move first, so split axis zero buttons would be cool.

Thanks for the work so far. It looks good. I would tone the Gcode blue down some more. Change the font possibly. It just seems harder to read than it should.
Bright colors aren't so bad to me, but toned down would not be against my grain either. ;)

Keep up the great progress.
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: poppabear on April 12, 2011, 01:11:21 PM
ok,

   Here is a new screen shot, with the Green, yellow and red colors muted down on the buttons. BUT!! the LEDs are still in the primary colors, there is just to many of them for me to waste a massive amount of time on, they are small, and if their colors really bug you, make them smaller or make your own LEDs. I used simple Priamary Red, Yellow and Green for the LEDs. The Boarder-button LEDs  I muted those down since they are larger and thus grab more attention.  I also changed the Labels backgrounds to the light gray, so that the Radius/Diameter mode label and others would blend in better, and the PNG buttons would not "Stick out".

Please note: Not complaining, there are just far to many dual state LEDs I would have to completely redo to tone down thier primary colors......  and since they can be made smaller, it is just not worth the time to me........  BUT!!  If you ("inset your name here"), want to redo all the indicator LEDs (the small square ones), let me know, and I will send you the list, and the Real Draw pro file, and you can then go and tone them all down by redoing them all.

I have purposely left room in the screen's various areas, so that users have some space to put their own buttons, leds, dros etc.

At this point at least from my perspective, the Run Screen (Hobby/Home wiz-bang version), is done.

Phil: If you or anyone else that may have all the Turn Wizard bmps from the wizard launch page, please send them to me.

Then next page is now on the chopping block: The MDI page........  so, if you want to chime in on what you want to see on this page, AND, do you want this page to also be a "Set-Up Page".

ODD NOTE:

Perhaps someone can shed some light on this:  Of all the Image buttons, the "Load File" button shows strange, I have redone it several times in several common formats.
Here is what happens, the first time you press the Load file button, it sinks in (like you pressed it), but it does NOT un-sink!!! it says krinkled up.  I am designing this screen in Klauses Mach screen (latest version).  Standard buttons for the Load button func, does not show this behavior only the Image buttons, and ONLY for the Load File function........

Scott
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Dan13 on April 12, 2011, 01:46:30 PM
Looks good, Scott. I still think the Spindle CW and CCW icons are a bit confusing - look like undo and redo to me ;) I think if you add a cylinder beside the arrows they would look better.

Did you find the way how to add the tool offset number DRO?

Dan
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: poppabear on April 12, 2011, 07:29:48 PM
Dan,

    I will leave the tool cylinder adding to you, once this set is done, overall, then you can take it and customize it however you want for your taste.
If the users here chime in and all REALLY hate my arrows I will add the cylinders.........  :)

Tool Offset "Dro", Yes, I can add that, but it will be done as a "user label" that is feed via the macro pump...... further, I could really only tie the H for the same tool, not a different tool. Since in VB, I would have no real way to track an H that was different from the T Current DRO.

scott
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: RICH on April 12, 2011, 08:08:08 PM
Scott,
Looks good .......
RICH
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Dan13 on April 13, 2011, 02:44:24 AM
Scott,

Not sure what you mean by H for same tool. If it means displaying the current offset NUMBER (not the actual offset length), then it's perfect. That's what's needed - no other thing.

Dan
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: poppabear on April 13, 2011, 07:07:19 AM
Dan, the H displays the offset number, just realize that it will only display the H that is the same number as the T. So if you set a different number H to the current tool, i.e.   T1020 (tool 10, H offset 20), the H that displays will be the H associated with the T in the current tool DRO (H10), not H20 that is in the G code.

so having said that, I dont think I will add an H "dro" since it would only report the same number as the T current dro.

IF someone knows of a way to grab "H's" that are different than the Current Tool Dro, please chime in........  The only way I would know how to get to H's would be non-trivial like getting and parsing the G code file, and then tracking the T numbers as it runs, to display H's associated with that T.

I am unaware of any Mach Specific VB calls that will also grab the current tool H offset.

If someone knows of a way, or better way, or I am having a Brain Fart, and there is an easy way to get to the H info of the current tool, please let me know.

BTW:

Rich, Phil, DaOne, Graham, Hood, others........

please look at the screen shot above, you see the paging buttons, for the other pages, please consider the things you feel important should be on there.

scott


Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Dan13 on April 13, 2011, 10:33:21 AM
Scott,

I see what you mean. No point then adding the H DRO which would display the obvious.

Dan
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Hood on April 13, 2011, 11:29:17 AM
Scott, I think you will need to wait for Brian to add the offset call in to Turn. I have asked for it for probably a couple of years now and still not got it, hope it will be in Rev 4 but also hope I live long enough, getting old now, was 45 yesterday  ;D

As for whats on other screens then I will leave that to others as I just have a one page setup for most of Mach functions and what I do have on other pages you seem to have on that main page.

Hood
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: poppabear on May 20, 2011, 09:12:40 AM
Hello again,

    Sorry, I have been away for a few weeks doing the Army school training crap......  So, I will try and get back to this.......
BUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!   Can some one pass me ALL the Bit Maps that Phil did?  (for the wizard stuff, main wizard nave page, and individual wizard pages?  Or, Phil can you send them to me? who ever?

Also, this is a HUGE TIME SINK HOLE!!!  I would REALLY appreciate some help!!! (Phil, other experienced screen designers, do you want to collaborate?, I am using the: "real draw pro" to do the bitmaps, and Klaus,s screen designer......)
(Please experienced screen designers speak up, I can send the Real Draw Pro project files to you as well). Phil did such a NICE job on those Lathe Wizard Bit Map Icons that I don't see any point in recreating that wheel....

Scott

 
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Hood on May 20, 2011, 05:03:15 PM
Just a heads up for you Scott, Brian added a DRO for me yesterday that is combined tool number and offset number. I have also found out I can add text before the numbers so it reads T0112 or whatever.
Afraid it cant be used at the moment as the Dev version will have to be updated but the OEM is 245 if you want an offset only DRO to go with the tool number DRO or OEM246 if you want the combined number and offset DRO as pictured below.
To get the leading zeroes in the DRO then the format string is %04.0f  if you alsoo want the T then  its just T%04.0f

I use Screen4 and the format string can be input with it but I believe MachScreen does not allow this of yet, I think Dan will be contacting Klaus to request that but not 100% sure.

Hood
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: poppabear on June 13, 2011, 05:27:01 PM
Thanks Hood,

To All (involved in this thread):

  I keep asking (and begging?), can someone PLEASE send me the Bitmaps from Phils' screen set?  I need the ones from the Wizard navigation page,
and the bitmaps from the wizard pages that, the main wizard pick page sends you to..........  He did some really nice bitmaps and I need a copy of them
so I DON'T have to recreate them.......

scott
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: RICH on June 13, 2011, 06:20:59 PM
Scott,
I'll get them to you.
There is a thread and you can download his screen so that would give you the bit maps. Just can't find the posting.....
RICH
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: RICH on June 13, 2011, 07:22:07 PM
Scott,
Here is the link to Phils screen set and the latest was 24lset....

http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,13548.msg88932.html#msg88932

The zip file should contain all the files your looking for.
RICH
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: poppabear on June 14, 2011, 07:16:16 AM
Hey Rich,

   Unfortunately, NONE of the down-loadable zips have the Bit maps I need..........
I see where you where showing screen shots of the Wizard navigation page, and some of the Wizard pages them selves,
those bitmaps of the ICONS for the various wizard functions is what I am missing.......

if you have them, (or Phil or whoever), can you email them to me at:  poppabear(AT)hughes(DOT)net

scott
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: RICH on June 14, 2011, 08:19:31 PM
I'll see what i have on the other PC where the screen is loaded. Next day or two....
RICH
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: poppabear on July 10, 2011, 09:25:06 AM
Hey Rich, (or who ever),

   I STILL don't have those Bitmaps can you send them, please!!!!!!  Is no one interested in this project anymore?
If the interest is gone, then I will quite wasting time on it.

scott
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Dan13 on July 10, 2011, 10:43:43 AM
Looks like no one is interested :(

Dan
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Leeway on July 10, 2011, 11:06:28 AM
Of course someone is interested. I just don't know where to get my hands on the files you want.
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: RICH on July 12, 2011, 05:48:27 AM
Scott,
Attached are the bitmaps.

RICH
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: poppabear on July 12, 2011, 07:35:32 PM
THANKS RICH!!!!!!!!!  That was what I needed!!!!!!!

BTW: do you, or anyone else want to help with the "grunt" screen work?

scott
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: zafarsalam on July 13, 2011, 01:52:49 PM
BTW: do you, or anyone else want to help with the "grunt" screen work?

scott

Scott,

I'll be happy to offer my help. But I can't promise speedy feedback. My schedule is rather busy these days.

Zafar
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: poppabear on July 13, 2011, 09:41:34 PM
ok, Zafar, that sounds good, contact me on skype when your free, I will send you the base files/bitmaps, and I will send you a "Work list"  (the pages I need done, like the wizard pages, etc........  you can pic the ones you want to do, and I will do some, of the others. What we can do is pass back and forth the .lset file, when you done with the work page or pages you want to do, send back to me, and I open it, and add some more, and we can pass it back and forth like that, till it is finished.......   The only thing I do ask, if you choose to do it, is let me know when you want to work on it, (and what you want to do on it), and when you can get it back to me, and try (as much as possible), to stay on that squedule, I will do the same for the stuff I am doing.......  that way we can keep better project time control.

scott
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: RICH on July 13, 2011, 09:49:52 PM
Scott,
I would be happy to help but i have never had the time to fool with the screen designer. So not sure how i can help.
Just have never gotten around to getting into it and really don't have the time to fool with it. Time is just not my owne
lately. Don't want to make any promises and then not deliver on my end.

RICH



Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: poppabear on July 14, 2011, 08:11:25 AM
I do understand, I have to squeeze the screen work in, between jobs, or MAKE time for it.........  Most folks here who have never done screen work, or bitmaps
have NO CLUE how much of a Time black hole they are........... Flash screens (at least for me, are about triple what ever the same screen in regular is).

Rich (or any others), if you would look at the Screen shots of the "Hobbie" lathe run screen I posted, there are buttons along the right, to navigate to other control
pages (including the Wizards index start page).  Do I need that many different pages for a Lathe?  The Hobby version will be like Mill in a way, it will have ALL the bells and whistles on the run page.

After the Hobby lathe set is done, I plan on doing a "PRO" version, that will be based on the Hobby, (as far as genearl layout, theme etc.), but the "bells and whistles" will be reduced to just a "Production" type of screen.

So, if YOU, HOOD, Graham, (and other PRO level lathe users), would please chime in on exactly WHAT needs to be on each screen and how many screens are really needed......

i.e.

Run screen:  cycle start, feed hold, stop, reset, axis dros, g code window, tool path, etc.?
Setup Screen:  what you want on this scxreen for lathe set up, for production run, tool table buttons, workoffset buttons, touch offs, etc.
MID screen: will there be one, if so, is the MDI line on the setup screen or its own screen?
Diagnostics screen:  standard
MPG Fly out:  screen 50 MPG screen, for jogging?

Wizards screen:  same ones that are in the Hobby set, and same order.

so, PLEASE chime in here, ANYONE that runs lathes in a production enviroment, and wants the simple "Make it happen #1" set.......

scott


Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Dan13 on July 14, 2011, 01:29:09 PM
Scott,

I would omit the MDI screen. Don't think a dedicated MDI screen is needed. The MDI is needed both on the setup screen and the run screen.

On the main screen needed also spindle and coolant control buttons as well as tool number and offset DROs - the new DROs Brian has just added. Also, these DRO's are needed on the setup screen. Spindle control is also needed on the setup page, since you touch off on the setup screen.

Dan

Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: poppabear on July 14, 2011, 04:07:53 PM
Dan,

   are your suggestions for BOTH screen sets, or just the PRO, you didnt say........
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Hood on July 14, 2011, 04:57:34 PM

So, if YOU, HOOD, Graham, (and other PRO level lathe users), would please chime in on exactly WHAT needs to be on each screen and how many screens are really needed......

Scott I think everyone is different as to what they use, I have 4 pages to my screens but very rarely use any other than the main page. I have all I use on that page day to day. The other pages I have are a half finished diagnostics page that I never look at so its unlikely to get finished. A tool setup page that I only obviously use if I set up a new tool and a tool table page which I look at when I am writing code and need to know which tools will be in which position on the turrets and which offsets they are using. Below are the screenshots of these pages but as said everyone will have different requirements and it wil be difficult to make a screen up that everyone likes, just ask Steve ;D

Oh BTW I have the MDI on both the main and Tool Setup page.
Hood
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Dan13 on July 15, 2011, 03:40:49 AM
Scott,

Sorry, you asked about Pro and that was what I was referring to. Thought the "Hobby" version was pretty much finished anyway in terms of concept - it has everything on the main screen.

Dan
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: RICH on July 15, 2011, 05:39:12 PM
Scott,
You could delete the  MDI screen in your Hobby version of Lathe in my opinion.

RICH
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Dan13 on July 16, 2011, 09:53:05 AM
I also think it is redundant.

Dan
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: poppabear on July 16, 2011, 04:51:36 PM
ok, MDI on hobbie ( and pro ) will be gone.........

scott
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: DaOne on July 27, 2011, 05:53:52 PM
Guys, I got some free time coming up again. I would be happy to help. Whats left to be done?
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: poppabear on July 27, 2011, 11:21:29 PM
Hey DaOne...........

    That would be GREAT!!!   Send me an Email at:  poppabear(at)hughes(dot)net
I am currently SLAMMED with building some automotive machine cell builds, and have had to park it till some time opens up again...
I have done the "Hobbie" version main Run screen, and most of the MDI screen (which users here said scrap it, and goto a set up page, so I think you could easily adapt it to a setup page instead.  Also, I was going to start the "Wizard" pages (like the main "Jump-Off" (wizard selection page), at page 51, then set the wizards in sequential order after that. The Wizards are NOT done at all, nor or the other standard "Lathe Pages", you can look at the page navigation buttons on the right, to get an idea of where I was going with it........  (I will need to scrap the MDI and put Setup there instead and mabey remove the MDI button all togther???).
at any rate, send me an email.

My thought, is work on it as much as you wish, then when you get tired of fooling with it, or what ever, send it all back to me, and I will finish up, or??
so that we are not stepping on each other or duplicating work........

scott
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: DaOne on August 19, 2011, 06:51:01 PM
As cool as everyones designs are they still never quite fit what I was looking for. I have decided to go my own direction with something I have had in the works for quite some time. It has always been a dream of mine to create a full conversational interface with a professional control look and function. With this screen set not only will it offer a clean professional layout similar to a real control it will also allow you to build full programs right from the multiple "wizards" that are imbedded into the interface. You will have full control of each operation. You can view all operations as well as delete last op and save the program you created. Just about anything simple can be programmed right on the IPS system complete with multiple tooling. This is very similar to what Haas Automation offers on there tool room series lathes. The amount of time I have put into this I will be charging a small amount for it when its finished if anyone is interested. Here is a screen shot of the OD turn IPS wizard so you can get an idea of what I am talking about. I would love to hear feedback of any kind.

Thanks,
Wes
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: RICH on August 19, 2011, 07:10:55 PM
Go for it Wes,
Suggest you start a thread on it.
RICH
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: budman68 on August 19, 2011, 09:02:10 PM
Nice and clean looking, Wes, good luck to you-  :)

Dave
 
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Dan13 on August 20, 2011, 12:03:21 AM
That's COOL, Wes! Very good looking too and I think you succeeded with the "professional look". I know I will be interested in it. When do you think it will be finished? I have another lathe I am converting to Mach3 and I plan to use it for one off''s and was looking for something like this.

Dan
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: DaOne on August 20, 2011, 11:55:56 AM
As far as a time line goes... I want this right before it goes out. I have many of the wizards created.  I have the layout 99% finalized but still creating graphics and finalizing scripts. Right now its running my 9x20 converted lathe with touchscreen quite well. I will post a couple more screens as well as create a new thread on this sometime this weekend. Might make a video as well showing just how easy it is to create a simple program using multiple tools.
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: poppabear on August 20, 2011, 10:11:51 PM
that does look very nice, so, did you decide not to work on the stuff I sent you? If so, that is cool, just let me know so I know not to wait on you.  My thoughts was to make an integrated set with wizards as well, but, to release it for free to the community.  Pass a copy of yours my way when your done if that is do-able.

Scott
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: DaOne on August 20, 2011, 10:38:31 PM
Scott,

Yeah it would be hard to keep up with 2 screen when one is so demanding on my time. Wife already wants to kill me. :) Yes I will have no issues sharing a copy with you as I have benefited for your work as well. :)

Here are a few more screens of my set. The cycle screen still isn't done with the graphics but the function is there. The IPS system has been consuming my time. There is allot going on in this screen set behind the scenes.
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: DaOne on August 20, 2011, 11:25:49 PM
I created a new thread. Please if you have a comment or question on this please post it here...

http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,19353.0.html
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: poppabear on August 26, 2011, 09:04:28 AM
Having seen that "DaOnes" lathe screen set(s), are FAR superior to what I was doing ( all though mine where free), and I was unable to acquire any help with them. I am stopping development of them.
   From my point of view, DaOnes screens are the way to go, and also appears that the main ( at least forum comment contributing users ), lathe users all like his stuff greatly.

Scott
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Sparky_NY on March 19, 2012, 01:01:53 AM
Scott, any chance of restarting your lathe screen efforts?   daOne has not been heard from in nearly two months and appears to have stopped work on his set.   I liked yours better anyways and was very disappointed to see it end.  I think yours fit hobbiest use better. I am just finishing retrofitting a 14x40 chicom lathe and would love to have your screenset.   Hope you consider it.
George
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: laser78 on July 11, 2012, 11:01:45 AM
I just retrofitted a lathe Benzinger, I would have liked me also this screen.
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: DaveCVI on July 11, 2012, 02:25:01 PM
Hi,
Fyi, the MachStdMill 2.0 package that CVI offers includes a new lathe screen set as part of the free Personal Edition.

IHMO they are much better than the stock mach lathe screens.
More info and the software is available from www.CalypsoVentures.com

Dave

Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: DaOne on July 07, 2013, 10:49:56 PM
Guys, sorry it took this long to get back to you. I am sorry to say this project has ended for me for now. I have moved on to LinuxCNC as Mach3 proved to be way to dangerous for use with a industrial lathe. Scott please don't let me stop you from continuing your work.
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: DMBGO on July 08, 2013, 08:16:52 AM
My offer still stands Wes,
If you e-mail me the files, I wold be happy to have a look and see where you were up to.....
dm@netsol.com.au
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Hood on July 08, 2013, 01:37:22 PM
Quote
Mach3 proved to be way to dangerous for use with a industrial lathe.

Can you expand a bit on this?

Hood
Title: Re: THE LATHE PROJECT - 2011
Post by: Leeway on July 08, 2013, 01:43:46 PM
I never have any trouble with it. :)