Machsupport Forum
Mach Discussion => Mach SDK plugin questions and answers. => Topic started by: robotmar on November 07, 2010, 02:22:12 PM
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Hi
As you know I like to make accessories to enhance the potential use of CNC machines, we would surely have seen in my Youtube channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/RobotfactorySRL # g / u).
Well now I have made up his mind to add a new accessory "Photography".
For accessory "Photography" I decided to use the DLL "Engraving" that Art has done.
I've read all the messages on both the Yahoo forum that the Machsupport forum concerning the topic.
For those who want to revise the topic:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mach1mach2cnc/message/74912
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic, 11996.msg87152.html # msg87152
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,12981.0.html
The first problem was to find a way to drive a magnet through the signal "Digit Trigger".
After many trials I found a way to use a magnet with which I can use the DLL developed by Art, for this I used a stepper motor drive for connecting the magnet to a single phase leaving the other free.
Since the signal "Digit Trigger" is very short, this is the only simple system possible for proper operation.
With this system I can have a feed rate of 300 mm/min, not much but enough if you consider that it works.
Up to here all is well ...
The problem is probably that the DLL is not working properly, you can see it in the first photo.
The picture would also be good with many shades of gray ...
The image is slightly offset, this is because at the end of the path of the X the trigger array is empty.
When you move to the next line in Y, the start is correct.
And so on until the end.
This is proportional to the X-axis travel (it seems that the values are rounded to lose data, and then the road is longer and more data are lost).
You can see it in the second photo.
I am working in mm!
Perhaps the problem is in this passage from the message of Art:
############
The triggerlength is an array of 1's and 0's which represent the image's density in one scan line. Its limited to 1000000 , so thats
1 million steps. The trigger array is equal to the number of steps you will move in the X each scan line.
omission .....
Think of pixel size this way. If the program knows there is 120 steps in each pixel of the X line of image, then it will put a variable pulse rate
for that first 100 steps that is representative of the density of that first pixel. During the next 120 steps, another pulse pattern will come out
representing the density of the next pixel..ect.. So if theres less than 20 motor steps / pixel, you wont get much of a density pattern.
omission .....
The way it works is basically this , a buffer of bits is created, the length of the number of steps that the photo will scan in one line.
So in a 5000steps/unit system, on a 8 x10" photo, there woudl be a scanline of 5000 * 10 or 50,000 bits.
Each bit may be set to 1 or 0. that 1 or 0 is put out on the DigTrigger output during the scan of the motor as it traverses the X axis.
This means acceleration is taken into account and each of the 50,000 bits will correspond to the motor position exactly. Now in this example, if the loaded photo is 1024 x 768, then each of the 1024 pixels in the image X will match up with 50,000 / 1024 = approx 50 triggers. If the image was 20" , then we'd have about 100 trigger positions per pixel. Question now, is how best to handle the filling of the possible 50,000 trigger points.
############
You can see the same problem of mine in the third picture (Top right) when you use the DLL with the laser.
Surely no one noticed because the Y stepover of the fault is less than what I use (0.2 mm)
Now I'm asking for HELP!!!
Art, poppabear, or any person who is able to program in VC++ can help me to solve my problem?
I use the DLL created by bdock (http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic, 11996.10.html) on July 29, 2009, 05:22:37 AM,
because he have added a "Maintain Aspect Ratio" checkbox to keep the image the correct shape.
If you need the sources code, these are in the link above.
Or the originals in Machsupport Plugin.
Please help me to solve the problem!!!
Andrea
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Hi
Thanks Art for the reply...
When you say "There didnt seem to be much interest in such a thing" I think it is very difficult to drive a magnet with a signal so fast, but now it is possible with my system.
Now I will explain in detail how I did it, so that anyone can use your DLL.
And of course you can do the tests if necessary.
This is because I believe that now there will be much interest in your DLL.
I have used a "pinch solenoid valves" the pinching device is moved by a solenoid operator and cuts off the fluid by pinching or releasing a tubing in soft silicon (or other soft material).
I believe that any magnet can be used...
Take a magnet (photo Magnete_1) then disassembled into its parts (photo Magnete_2).
Please note that final assembly is mounted to the back (photo Magnete_3).
This is because is the spring that will give you the energy to beat and not the magnetic force.
Take the middle (the core) and you make a hole, in this hole is inserted a metal bar with a hard tip at the end, the metal bar is fastened with a screw (photo Magnete_4).
Attach the magnet to a stepper motor drive, connecting only one phase (photo Magnete_5).
The stepper motor drive are setting to full step.
Attach the magnet to the Z axis of your CNC (photo Magnete_6).
For convenience I have used the stepper motor drive of the fourth axis (A axis).
On photo "MotorOutput" there is a setting of the A axis, and on photo "OutputSignal" there is a setting of the Digit Trig.
Start Mach3 and run Impact/Laser Engraving.
I used the photo "Andrea", and this is the dialog window that appears (photo PhotoEngraving).
Please note that photo is negative because magnet is inverted (when not working is excited as a stepping motor).
Start job and wait until the end.
I hope I have done what is pleasing to many and that my experience might be useful.
On my Youtube channel you can see a video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcNRF0y6h_E
Sorry for my bad English.
Thanks,
Andrea
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More photo
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The latest photos
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Cool ! Why couldn't any spring loaded solenoid modified to hold the stylus and be compabible with the voltage of a step motor driver work?
Dan Mauch
www.camtronics-cnc.com
low cost cases for Gecko products.
Kits and an assmebled systems
Hi
Thanks Art for the reply...
When you say "There didnt seem to be much interest in such a thing" I think it is very difficult to drive a magnet with a signal so fast, but now it is possible with my system.
Now I will explain in detail how I did it, so that anyone can use your DLL.
And of course you can do the tests if necessary.
This is because I believe that now there will be much interest in your DLL.
I have used a "pinch solenoid valves" the pinching device is moved by a solenoid operator and cuts off the fluid by pinching or releasing a tubing in soft silicon (or other soft material).
I believe that any magnet can be used...
Take a magnet (photo Magnete_1) then disassembled into its parts (photo Magnete_2).
Please note that final assembly is mounted to the back (photo Magnete_3).
This is because is the spring that will give you the energy to beat and not the magnetic force.
Take the middle (the core) and you make a hole, in this hole is inserted a metal bar with a hard tip at the end, the metal bar is fastened with a screw (photo Magnete_4).
Attach the magnet to a stepper motor drive, connecting only one phase (photo Magnete_5).
The stepper motor drive are setting to full step.
Attach the magnet to the Z axis of your CNC (photo Magnete_6).
For convenience I have used the stepper motor drive of the fourth axis (A axis).
On photo "MotorOutput" there is a setting of the A axis, and on photo "OutputSignal" there is a setting of the Digit Trig.
Start Mach3 and run Impact/Laser Engraving.
I used the photo "Andrea", and this is the dialog window that appears (photo PhotoEngraving).
Please note that photo is negative because magnet is inverted (when not working is excited as a stepping motor).
Start job and wait until the end.
I hope I have done what is pleasing to many and that my experience might be useful.
On my Youtube channel you can see a video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcNRF0y6h_E
Sorry for my bad English.
Thanks,
Andrea
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Hi Dan
In fact, I literally said "I believe that any magnet ( read solenoid ) can be used..."
I used a 24 V DC solenoid, and one of my stepper drive ( http://www.robotfactory.it/CncBoard/StepperBoard.htm ) setting on 2A 35V full step.
And everything works as shown in the video...
Andrea
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The third picture in the first message - isn't it Tweakie's laser engraved image? Looks exactly the same:
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,12444.msg110555.html#msg110555
Dan
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Andrea:
Very nice work.
Ive looked to the code and I thin maybe I see what was wrong. Try this one, I can't guarentee it will be better but Id like
to know if its worse or better..
Art
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Hi Dan13
Yes it is.
That photo was included to highlight the same problem of my (as I said verbatim).
Andrea
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Hi Art
Well, thank you.
Tomorrow I'll try the new DLL and then I can tell you...
Thanks,
Andrea
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Hi Andrea,
Sorry, didn't had the time to read through your post, just saw a familiar photo and thought that impact engraving could do this.
Anyway, just read through your posts and I find your approach for driving the magnet very interesting. However, I wonder why can't one use a MOSFET to switch the magnet? Isn't it fast enough?
Also, if you increase the kernel speed, can you go faster than 300mm/min? Or is it a hardware (magnet) limitation?
I've seen on a few occasions impact engraving letters and lines with Mach, but this kind of work is just incredible! Thanks for sharing your results!
Dan
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Hi Dan13
I do not know why can't one use a MOSFET to switch the magnet.
These could be some of the reasons.
Many people are already in their CNC the fourth axis, and this becomes comfortable in using.
Also, I think that, since from 2007 that the DLL exists and no one had ever found a way to get it to work only with the laser, I think because the signal "Digit Trigger" is very short, and this is the only simple system possible for proper operation, read also what Art says in the various messages by this link ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mach1mach2cnc/message/74912 ) and the answer of the other users.
Another reason could be that the a stepper motor drive now costs very little.
I'm not saying to be the first to do it but I'm certainly the first to disclose it because I read messages in all forums of Mach3 every day and I've never seen anything like it.
If people speak only about laser and not of impact there must be a reason.
If I increase the kernel speed (now at 75 KHz), nothing changes because is it a hardware (solenoid) limitation (and the spring frequency).
Thanks,
Andrea
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Hi
As I think this topic has aroused much interest.
I want to put forward a proposal.
If there is any person that will achieve this accessory, I would like that he put some photos here, including the work done.
This would allow to exchange their experiences, thus increasing our knowledge.
Thanks,
Andrea
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Hi Art
HIAAAUUUUUUU!!!
Thanks, Thanks, Thanks ART.
The new DLL seems to work perfectly.
You can see the new photo ( ResultingWork.jpg ), now you can see my glasses!
When I loaded the photo ( PhotoEngraving_new ), I have see immediately the difference in values of X and Y that could possibly go.
You can see ( ButtonLeftCorner.jpg ) that the vertical line is finaly a line, and the (LinearityOfGrayScale.jpg ) linearity of grayscale and the ( LeftOnSync.jpg ) correct syncronism.
Thanks,
Andrea
PS:
Attached zip file with the photo.
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Hi Art
I ask you a pleasure again ...
In the message of Bdock ( http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,11996.msg78241.html#msg78241 ) he says he has made these changes
********************* FIXES *******************
I have CORRECTED the calculations and transposed variables which caused the out of sync raster if the picture was not square.
This was basically a mixup of picture height, width and scanline length.
********************* ADDITIONS *******************
I have added a checkbox and m_Aspect to handle the ASPECT RATIO locking option.
I have added a checkbox and m_Inverse to handle the PICTURE NEGATIVE INVERSION option.
The inversion has been disabled in menuhandler.cpp at the present time.
I have ISSUES with the transfer of data to and from the dialog box and the XML profile data storage.
I have the idea that the issue is related to innapropriate use of UpdateData() at the wrong point somewhere.
The m_Aspect and m_Inverse states are not being handled correctly somewhere to and from XML and to and from the FORM.
I have got stuck trying to resolve the issue and have resorted to disabling the Inverse feature.
********************* END ADDITIONS *******************
I believe there is no problem in repeating the message and the source code since made them public.
You can see ( PhotoEngraving_Bdock.jpg ) the look of the window that is more pleasant.
Please tell us you can make this last effort.
On attached zip file (SourceEngraving_Bdock.zip) there is his source code.
Thanks,
Andrea
PS:
In the afternoon I'll the description of how to use the accessory as Embossing Unit, of course, a video with the job, the G-code and photos for the configuration as a spindle.
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Hi
This is a description of how to use the accessory as Embossing (microdot) Unit.
The first thing to do is set up Mach3 for use Embossing as spindle.
On zip file the various photo to explain the various steps.
On photo MotorOutput.jpg how to set pin for spindle.
On photo DigitTrig.jpg how to disable Digit Trig.
On photo SpindleSetup.jpg how to set spindle for motor control.
On photo MotorTuning.jpg how to set spindle speed.
On photo SpindleSpeed.jpg how to test if everything is ok.
Now take the G-code files that you will find in the attached zip file and load it into Mach3.
Reset all the axes (for convenience of zeroing Z axis, you can start the spindle manually), and begin work.
On photo Corner.jpg and Core.jpg you can see the quality of sign.
On my Youtube channel you can see a video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgXK7DvpVgw
Thanks,
Andrea
PS:
Attached zip file ( HowToMicrodot.zip ) with G-code, SheetCam job, photo of configuration and some other photo.
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Andrea,
Excellent job on the solenoid, very neat and compact. The method of operation, one pole of a stepper motor driver, is brilliant too (I would never have thought of doing that).
You can see the same problem of mine in the third picture (Top right) when you use the DLL with the laser.
Surely no one noticed because the Y stepover of the fault is less than what I use (0.2 mm)
I don't know if it helps you but you are not quite right in your assumption here. The shading (top right of my image) is caused by the reduction in laser power output during the acceleration and deceleration phase of the axis at the start and end of each line. A similar effect is shown in the image below.
Keep up the excellent work, for some reason I missed this thread but I will be following with great interest now.
Tweakie.
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Hi :
Here is the source for the engraving plugin, and also a new plugin with aspect control and inversion control.
Im afraid I cantg spend any more time on it, Im pretty bogged down, I cant find Blocks code to compare to,
and this is about as far as I can get.
Art
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Tweakie or Art do you think that a PLC would control the impact head effectively?
All the best, Henry
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Henry,
Not sure I fully understand your question. A single transistor circuit would be all that is necessary to drive a solenoid why a PLC ?
Tweakie.
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Art,
Thank you for the time you have spent with the plugin, it is much appreciated.
I have been set the challenge of how small a checker board (8 x 8 squares) can be engraved and still resolved under a microscope - at the moment I am down to 0.5mm but hoping to get smaller than this using the plugin.
Tweakie.
btw. I think Bdocks code is the current download http://www.machsupport.com/plugins.php
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Tweakie,
I am still trying to figure this out so bear with me. The solenoid needs something to make it fire. I am under the impression that Andrea was using a drive to fire the solenoid. IE gecko or.... I have all 4 axes in use so I was wondering if I could use my PLC (it is set up for a toolchanger with outputs to spare) to fire the solenoid. This of course is if my assumptions on how this works is correct.... ?
all the best, Henry
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Henry:
The plc probably cannot process the 40us pulses ast enough.. though that depends on the plc..some can..
You simply feed the output to the plc, write a program for it, and see if it can.. I dont think so though..
Art
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Art -
Thank you that is what I was looking for, I feared it but thought it would not be fast enough either and defer to your opinion. I will look into how to add an additional drive. I am running a Campbell board with all axes full.
Great thread and fantsatic information. Thanks for paving the way Andrea!
All the best, Henry
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Hi Tweakie
From the picture one might have thought that we had the same problem.
I saw your new photos, I couldnt have the same quality of your laser...
In any case, now that Art has corrected the DLL, can I be happy.
I must say that Art is the best as always
Have you tried the more newest DLL, also to you working?
Andrea
Sorry for my bad English, I hope I never say the wrong things.
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Hi Art
Thanks ART.
The newest DLL work perfectly.
Thank you for the time you've taken away from your work and you gave me.
I am indebted to you, as I told you many years ago, if you come to Italy to Venice you are my guest ...
You are the best :-) ;-)
Thanks,
Andrea
Sorry for my bad English, I hope I never say the wrong things.
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Hallo.
I have CNC + work Engraving mechanicDOT electromagnetic head in laser mode plugin DLL.
Material ist stones and marble.
Sorry my english ist bad. I live Slovak republic .
I am reading here very priority.
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Nice work in any language.
Where did you find / buy your Engraving electromagnetic head?
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Excellent work Obal.
I am having a problem with "banding" (horizontal bands of differing contrast) please look at this image http://www.cooperman.talktalk.net/files/27_files/image762.jpg
On one of your images it looks like you have the same problem - Is this the case ?
Tweakie.
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Tweaky:
Its mathmatical in nature. If a greyscvale varyies subtlely , it can create such bands due to the math of the grey scale interpreter, the imapcts try to fill in a grey scale of the line, so if the next line is only differing in very small ways, the math involeved could simply shift a bit one way, if each line is the same variation, then bands can occur.. not much you can do about it..
Art
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Hi Art,
I understand what you say and the effect is demonstrated in the background of this image http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=12444.0;attach=23043;image . The background gradient contains more shades than the 8 available from the plugin so it is split into the nearest match and thus the bands which only affect the background and not the foreground.
What I am trying to resolve is, I think, different and can best be seen in this image http://www.cooperman.talktalk.net/files/27_files/image762.jpg which is purely monochrome with no shades of gray.
I can produce a number of identical images, one at a time, side by side on the same material and with exactly the same settings yet the banding pattern, across the whole image, is different between each image.
Grateful of any additional thoughts you may have on this one.
Tweakie.
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Its not really limited to 8 shades of grey. Its a little complex the way it works, but the number of shades of grey is related to the X steps per unit. Lets say you have 1000 steps per mm and your picture will be 100mm's wide. If the picture also is 100 pixels wide, ( to make it easy), we then have 1000 stepper motor steps per pixel of the image. My point here is we calculate the number of steps per pixel of the final output.
We then load a pixel value from 0 - 255 and calculate that as a number from 0 - 1 and multiply that by the 1000 steps / pixel to come up with an iterator. We then, for 1 thousand steps , add the iterator to a variable that starts at zero. Each tiime the answer is less than the number of steps per pixel, we set the trigger for that step to zero, if the total is more than the number of steps per pixel, we set the trigger to 1 and subtract the number of steps per pixel from the total. We repeat this until the trigger buffer is full.
This means that the number of grey shades is related to the steps/mm and the output width and the picture width. In the end its basically related to the "steps per pixel" of the output. The actual greyscale that results is not limited to 8, but to about 255, and each image has a differing grey scale resolution.
Art
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Hi.
Hier ist dot marking machines + accesories http://www.directindustry.com/industrial-manufacturer/dot-peen-marking-machine-81035.html
Nice work in any language.
Where did you find / buy your Engraving electromagnetic head?
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Hallo.
Here's my model look like generate photo in stone mechanical style.
To dress is Russian mode of production.
Equipment isn't my and isn't controlled from MACH3.
Head is electromagnet.
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Art,
Thank you for the information. I must admit to not fully understanding how the dots are generated but perhaps it will become clearer after more thought. One thing that I had not considered is that the banding is created from the X step info - I had, mistakenly, thought that if it was software related it would have been related to the Y axis stepover.
You have given me an avenue to investigate regarding care in the initial image sizing and pixel count rather than just taking an image and scaling to fit at the last moment.
I will experiment with the grayscale issue a bit more but so far I have only been able to resolve, at any one time, 5 shades out of a possible 8. So I need to discover just why I am getting such a large step size so that I cannot see more than 8 shades. http://www.cooperman.talktalk.net/grayscale1.bmp
There has to be a solution to this "banding" and I just hope that I find it sooner rather than later. ;D
Tweakie.
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I d/led the impact solenoid plugin from the web site and installed it. I could not get any output from pin 8 with the config output set for digit titg enable port 1 and pin 8 as output pin. I then copied the eengraving .dll ver 1.1 from your post to the plugionn directory. I still did not get any output from pin 8. So i hooked up my scope and sure enough there was no signal on pin8. So I changed the digit trig to pin 6 and reran the engrave ver 1.1 with still no output shown on the scope. I know my PP is fine.
Any ideas why I am not getting any output. using the plugin?
Dioes the plugin in the downloard section have the ver 1.1 dll? added?
Art
[/quote]
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Dan:
Must be a simplt config thing, I cant think of anythign to stop it. I take it everythign else seems to work fine in terms of starting the plugin up?
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The X and the Y axis move fine . But I am geettting no signal on pin 8 with the Digit trig set to port 1 pin 8
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Hi Dan:
Not sure what could stop it.. hmm. Make sure no other signal is set to that pin, that could kill it..
I cant think of the top of head anythign else that woudl stop it, must work I see too many examples..
Art
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Hallo Dan.
you have to activate :
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I have triple checked everything. Yes I do have the plug in ver 2.00.075 enabled. I have pin 8 selected and enabled on port 1 for the digit/engrav
I have tried using different pins for the output but no joy. I can get the XY to move with no problems . The plug in seems to work fine except no output on the pin checked with both a driver wired to pin 8 and using a scope. On that or any other pin.
Here is my xml.
Dan
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Hi Dan,
I had a quick look at your xml.
You have the output configured to pin 8 OK but I also notice that motor3 step pin and motor6 step pin are also shown as configured to pin 8 - perhaps something to check.
Now this is a stupid question but you are running the full licensed version and not a demo ? licensed to Abdul Mahman ?
Tweakie.
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But it should also show that the A axis motor (3) is not enabled. But I think I will delete that anyway.
Yes I got sloppy. I have a legal license but when my old PC died and I installed mach3 on my new bench PC I loaded it from a CD that happened not to have my license on it. I;ll change that today.
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I can I ask you to email me a copy of your xml file to see if that will solve the problem?
dmauch@camtronics-cnc.com
Hi Dan,
I had a quick look at your xml.
You have the output configured to pin 8 OK but I also notice that motor3 step pin and motor6 step pin are also shown as configured to pin 8 - perhaps something to check.
Now this is a stupid question but you are running the full licensed version and not a demo ? licensed to Abdul Mahman ?
Tweakie.
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Setting up impact engraving shouldn't be this hard.
The only documentation that I have seen is that from robomar.
I have followed his instructions.
I have loaded the plugin
I have enabled the plug in
I have enabled the digit trig and set the port to 1 and the pin to 8
I have verified there are no other pins set to pin 8 that are enabled.
I have loaded the plugin and loaded a jpg picture.
I have set the plugin length and width to 3 and the stepover to .1, feed rate 30
The plugin calcualates the image pixels and the other data.
I press start scanning
In the diagnostic screen I can see that the X is moving and then the y moves the step over amount.
There is no indication that there is any other activity such as pin 8 being pulsed.
Again with a scope on pin 8 and ground while the scanning is running their is no activity shown on the scope but the pulse stream is seen on the X and Y pins
When any of the other pins are selected for the digit trig there is no pulse stream
When I load the program onto another PC and run the same plug in I get no reading on which ever pin I selected as the output for digit trig.
There must be something else that causes pin 8 to pulse or the plugin for whatever reason isn't sending the pulse stream for pin 8 or any other pin set up in the config file.
What am I missing?
This shouldn't be that difficult.
Dan
Hi Dan:
Not sure what could stop it.. hmm. Make sure no other signal is set to that pin, that could kill it..
I cant think of the top of head anythign else that woudl stop it, must work I see too many examples..
Art
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Dan:
Can it be version? That plugin only works after a certain Mach3 version. ( Though I wrote it over 2 years ago I think..).
I took a look through the driver code and I dont see any other setting thats needed. If the driver is current it should work.
Im a bit too bogged down at the moment to set it all up to diagnose it here, but after next Gearotic release I can do all that
and tell you if it works here. ( though tweakie and the others seem to be running it.
What version of MAch3 are you guys running it on? Perhaps it only works on an older version and isnt working on current?
There must be something funky going on...
Art
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This shouldn't be that difficult.
Dan
Quite right Dan, it should not be that difficult.
I am running Mach3 version 3.042.020 and using the latest DLL that Art has provided. (I don't think my xml would be helpful as pin assignments are different and I work in metric units - not only that, I don't want everybody to know it is licensed to Papa *********X ;D ;D)
One thing comes to mind...... The pluugin reduces my laser power density as the axis slows (decelerates) at the end of a line and ramps it up again as the axis accelerates during the start of the next line. If it didn't do this it would cut deeper at the start and finish of each line.
It is just possible that the feedrate you have set is not enough to see any output on the trigger pin so try increasing your feedrate to 300 or something and see what happens then. Just a thought.
Tweakie.
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Hi Dan
The new DLL seems to work perfectly...
I am running Mach3 version 3.042.020 licensed and using the latest DLL that Art has provided.
For configuration, I just did what I explained at the beginning.
Also, I have made a box with the electronics inside and connect that to second parallel port inside the PC and work perfectly, so that they disengage from the fourth axis and make that the most versattile and portable to any CNC.
If possible, put a photo the next day.
Thanks,
Andrea
-- I am sorry for my bad English, I hope I never say the wrong things --
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Hallo Dan.
In pin 8 is impulse short for laser. ( 40 micro sec.)
For electromagnet you have to impulse pull min. on 10 milli sec. Here's problem.
Your system is OK. Impulses you pin 8 certainly runs.
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I think I am making prgress but am wondering why your screen looks different than mine?
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Dan:
Two things I notice..first, use a real photo of something with black and white in it to esnure the saturation goes above 50% of grey scale.. second, make sure you hit the calculate button before cutting, the trigger length shoudl indicate the number of pulses to be put out on a line. Shoudl be about width times XSteps..Automatically set, but you do have to hiot calculate..
Art
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I had figured that out as the file I was using was the one that robomar posted. I didn't realize that it didn't have enough definition which casued the scope to not to display any signals because the plugin couldn't see it any differences . The problem was all in my poor choice of jpeg to use. Earlier today I copied some other pictures and ran them through the plugion and walla I could see pulses on the scope.
Sorry for the wild goose chase.
Dan
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Hi Dan
I think you're confusing engraving with embossing.
The photo of the message is created with embossing (spindle) you can try this zip attached (45 x 65 mm).
Pay attention the zip photo is negative.
Thanks,
Andrea
-- I am sorry for my bad English, I hope I never say the wrong things --
-
Hi Dan
This is the result on alluninium.
Thanks,
Andrea
-- I am sorry for my bad English, I hope I never say the wrong things --
-
Version is more.This me meets.
link: http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,11996.0.html file zlib.zip
-
That's great Andrea, looks like you have the setup all sorted now.
Tweakie.
-
Hi Dan
This is the correct plugin that I used.
Hi Tweakie
This is the first photo of the external "Motor Control" that I sell.
Thanks,
Andrea
-- I am sorry for my bad English, I hope I never say the wrong things --
-
Yes that is what I did. I used the embossing picture because I didn't know enough about the impact plugin. My bad.
Dan[
quote author=robotmar link=topic=16446.msg113125#msg113125 date=1291276771]
Hi Dan
I think you're confusing engraving with embossing.
The photo of the message is created with embossing (spindle) you can try this zip attached (45 x 65 mm).
Pay attention the zip photo is negative.
Thanks,
Andrea
-- I am sorry for my bad English, I hope I never say the wrong things --
[/quote]
-
Now that is a clean design and build, nice work.
-
what type of signal launches the Digit trig?
analyzed with an oscilloscope?
thanks and please excuse my English
-
Stitos,
It is a short duration pulse (40uS for laser) but it is the pulse repetition frequency (0 to 100%) that varies. Obviously Art would be able to provide a better description but this is the type of signal that I see.
Tweakie.
-
Andrea,
Excellent work, as always, on your completed impact engraving unit, extremely professional. (hope you sell lots ;) )
Tweakie.
-
But the voltage and intensity of LPT1 is modified or not?
Thanks
-
Stitos,
Sorry my explanation was not very good, I will try again.
But the voltage and intensity of LPT1 is modified or not?
The voltage on the selected LPT1 pin (digital trigger) is, in my case, either 0V or 5V (off / on) It is pulsed for a duration of 40uS at a varying frequency which is dependent on the image depth and the axis feedrate.
This produces the equivalent to a variable duty cycle (similar in it's effect to 'Pulse Width Modulation') but it is essentially Pulse Repetition Frequency (PRF).
Hope this helps.
Tweakie.
-
This driver based in L298N.
Can it work? For impact engraving pluging.
how connect the signals? ???
-
Stitos,
As far as I can tell,
the electromagnet should be connected across outputs 'out-a' and 'out-b'.
'en1' (en-a) should be held high (10k to +5 Volts).
input would be on 'in-a' or 'in-b' (either one will do).
other inputs are unused.
Tweakie.
-
Hi Stitos,
This is the schematics that I use and works very well.
You can connect magnet on A1 and A2.
Thanks,
Andrea
-- I am sorry for my bad English, I hope I never say the wrong things --
-
Hi Sitos,
And this is the link for the datasheet...
http://www.robotfactory.it/CncDatasheet/L6208.zip
http://www.robotfactory.it/CncDatasheet/AN1451.zip
http://www.robotfactory.it/CncDatasheet/AN1495.zip
If you want I give you the PCB design in Eagle.
Thanks,
Andrea
-- I am sorry for my bad English, I hope I never say the wrong things --
-
Hi Sitos,
And this is the layout, connections and registration...
Thanks,
Andrea
-- I am sorry for my bad English, I hope I never say the wrong things --
-
Hello,
Not work my driver, ET SMMC V2.0 (L298N
-
The plugin work in zone white, lanch 40us (On) and 40us(Off) repit it frecuency etc......
The frecuency of work is 125Hz ???
-
Hello Art how can I load the engrave file?Thanks
-
Stitos,
Please accept my apologies but I really do not understand your question - could you perhaps rephrase it please.
Tweakie.
-
Hello Art how can I load the engrave file?Thanks
Ntlaser,
Downloads section, Plugins, Engraving Trigger plugin, Save the Engraving m3p file, Run the m3p file.
On restart of Mach the plugin will be available.
Tweakie.
-
sorry for the translation
The pulse is 40us on? and 40us pulse is off? continuously.
In the imge white, for example
is 12500Hz the frecuency?
-
Stitos,
As soon as I can I will take some measurements with an oscilloscope and report back.
Tweakie.
-
Thank you very much. Can in difernt feedrate and image total white. And image total black.
I don´t have oscilloscope.
Thank you very much
-
Ntlaser,
Further to my earlier post - The latest plugin has not yet been posted to the downloads page so after you have installed the posted version download the file 'engraving nov11-2010' from here http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=16446.0;attach=23238 and copy the 'engraving.dll' file to your Mach3/Plugins folder. This will replace the previous version and give you the latest one. (not sure if that all makes sense but I have tried my best to describe the process :) )
Tweakie.
-
Thanks Tweakie I 've Done it.Soon I will post in the forum about the laser machine I built 2000mm x 1500mm 150watt.Hope you and the others will like it and give ideas!!
-
Ntlaser,
Looking forward to seeing the pictures of your new machine.
Tweakie.
-
Stitos,
Having tried with a portable oscilloscope, it is obvious that a much more fancy digital, recording piece of equipment will be necessary here.
All I have been able to confirm, so far, is that the pulse width is indeed 40uS and the Pulse Repetition Frequency at white is 0% increasing with shade to approx 90% at black but I have been unable to accurately measure the gap (pause) between the edges (join) of each pixel in the image but this does vary with feedrate.
Not much help really but I will try with another scope when time permits.
Tweakie.
-
Stitos,
Having tried with a portable oscilloscope, it is obvious that a much more fancy digital, recording piece of equipment will be necessary here.
All I have been able to confirm, so far, is that the pulse width is indeed 40uS and the Pulse Repetition Frequency at white is 0% increasing with shade to approx 90% at black but I have been unable to accurately measure the gap (pause) between the edges (join) of each pixel in the image but this does vary with feedrate.
Not much help really but I will try with another scope when time permits.
Tweakie.
OK, thank you very much
-
Hello,
Where I can buy stepper board? In Ebay?
Thank you
-
eBay is probably the best place to look.
I have in the past bought cheap, single axis boards from Virtual Village (China) and been very happy with the experience.
Tweakie.
-
Hello guys. I said I will post a new thread but I didnt have any time!!I am facing problems with the engraving plugin.I read that the output for the plugin is the digit trigger.Is that right?I have it not enabeled and is still fires.The image doesnt look at all as it should be and general I dont think that is working as it should be compering with the results that I have seen from you Tweakie.Can Anybode guide me trough the calibration? I am using pin 9 from sprindle to use the laser.I have set pwm base freq 1000 and the pulley max to 100.My computer runs to 75000.So I have 75 different values that i can set for output.For the laser power control I think I am ok .Does The plugin offer control of power? If there is a problem writing to this post please telll me.Thanks
-
I think you are perhaps getting too technical for this simple little plugin.
You are correct - the output is on the digital trigger, which must be enabled, but make sure you do not have this pin allocated and enabled somewhere else in your setup.
The digital trigger will control the laser power using PRF so you just need to set the maximum allowable power.
Does this help ?
Tweakie.
nb. I have no problem with you writing to this post - we are all learning here together and that's the way it should be. ;)
-
thanks for your reply Tweakie.power is been set through pin 9 where is my sprindle speed control.I had pin 9 also in digital trigger.I will try another pin.But how to set the power in maximum when the output trigger pin is different than this of the sprindle speed, changing the speed (power)shouldnt make any difference
-
PRF meaning?
-
Sorry buddy PRF is Pulse Repetition Frequency.
What EHT PSU are you using ?
Does it have the same inputs as the one I am using here ?
(http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=12444.0;attach=18476;image)
Tweakie.
-
Tweakie in my parallel port there is connected a board.(The machined was initially bought to been built by a 'manufacturer' here in Greece.At the end he was blackmailing me for money,after a 5 months delay, so i had to finish it on my own)I will post the hall story to the post that i have to make.Goming back to the subject this board gives me Pwm relative to 0-5v.And on it i have connected and the signals for the motors as well.I have 3 Ac servo.So the schematic is not the same buti think it does the work.would a picture help?
-
Sorry tweakie did you mean the laser power supply?
-
Tweakie my laser power suplly is like this one on picture(not this one)
http://cgi.ebay.com/100W-120W-120-Watt-130W-130-Watt-CO2-Laser-Power-Supply-/350260386428?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item518d255a7c#ht_865wt_852
-
Just wanted to check that we are talking about the same type of EHT power supply (PSU).
My interpretation of the use of this type of PSU’s is that the ‘IN’ terminal is used to set the maximum output current that is required for the job in hand (all tubes have a maximum current, which should not be exceeded, which is in turn related to their wattage). This maximum current can be set by applying a DC voltage (0 – 5 Volts) or by applying a PWM signal (0 – 100%). The best method is a matter of choice and I just happen to have chosen a DC voltage but there is no reason why PWM should not be used. The actual tube current is set and or varied by the ‘TTL’ terminal using a variable duty cycle (0 - 100% mark space ratio). This can be achieved either by a Pulse Width Modulated signal or by a Pulse Repetition Frequency signal and again it is a matter of choice which is used.
To use the Mach3 Laser / Engraving plugin the maximum tube current should be set to suit the material then the actual tube current is varied, as necessary, by the PRF output from the Digital Trigger. The output pin used to link the Digital Trigger to the TTL terminal must not be mapped to any other function within Mach. The output pin used to link the speed PWM to the IN terminal must not be mapped to any other function within Mach. From here on it is just a matter of fine tuning to get the best results.
Tweakie.
-
Thanks Tweakie I will look into it .I have some difficulties of understanding 100% but i will give it a try.How can I attach my schematic file?
-
Click the 'Reply' button below to enter full reply mode then select insert image (number 2, second row of icons)
By 100% I am meaning Continuous Wave (CW) operation.
Tweakie.
-
Tweakie do you have mail that I can send you because I cant send it through this post.i dont know why!Thanks
-
tweakie@talktalk.net
-
hello
I used this plugin with a laser, pin1 connecting the port directly to the power supply of the laser (ttl)
but unless I activate the laser speed with less power ??? more speed work to more power is the laser ???
to 3m/min. not turn on the laser, and 20m/min. the laser work perfect whit your power.
why is it so?
MACH3'll have the bad configuration?
thank you very mach
-
Hi Stitos,
When raster scanning the axis has to accelerate from zero to full speed at the start of each line and then decelerate from full speed to zero at the end of each line (as defined under the motor tuning parameters). If the power level was not reduced proportional to the axis speed then the laser would cut deeper as it slows towards the end of travel.
Getting the power level and / or feed rate just right perhaps requires a bit of practice. ;)
Tweakie.
-
hello
His work is perfect.
Could send me a screen the configuration of the motor tuning? to get for an example
Thank you very mach
-
Stitos,
I am not at the same location as the machine but I think this profile is correct.
Tweakie.
-
And I tried it and it goes well, I see strange is that when I very low speed (30cm/min) will not turn on the laser. "Should be activated at any speed?
-
And I tried it and it goes well, I see strange is that when I very low speed (30cm/min) will not turn on the laser. "Should be activated at any speed?
If the laser was activated at any speed then it would burn when stationary which is not what is required. (The stationary thing is a law of physics which applies to the X Axis changing it's direction)
Tweakie.
-
good morning,
I'm making a machine to work at high speed.
While this plugin will respond at speeds of 50 m / min or 100m/min?
Pulse rate varied by varying the speed of work?
best regards
-
Hi Stitos,
I am sorry buddy but I just do not know all the answers, wish I did :'(
I run my X Axis at 3500mm/min and I am getting quite good results at this speed. If you will get any improvement at 5000mm/min I really don't know but I would be very interested to hear of your results and perhaps see some pictures of your work.
The pulse rate may be fixed to the image D.P.I. in which case it will vary with speed.
I think I have finally got to the bottom of the 'banding' issue I have been having but it is too early to be sure, lots more testing first ;)
Tweakie.
-
Hello, I am working right now 20000mm/min with good results, but I want to modify the machine for more speed, removing weight to the head, I'm talking laser.
Pulse then has nothing to do with speed? pulse is associated to the image
More speed to shoot faster pulse?
As able to analyze the signal correctly?
A completely white tendira pulse rate?
Best regards
-
An image, done this morning, shows horizontal banding (perhaps difficult to see in the photo, but it's there) the banding is related to the image DPI and the image size. An increase in axis speed would make no difference to the dot positions although they would, of course, be placed at a faster rate (within the limitations of the laser operating system). The pulse repetition rate (PRF) must therefore increase with speed. As axis speed is increased there will come a point when the pulse width (PWM) is wider than the gap between successive pulses and no image can be produced. Perhaps not attainable with a moving axis but easily done with a scanner head. There must be an optimum axis speed but I think you are nearer to finding it than I.
Tweakie.
-
Hi,
I have problems, but everything worked affiacate records two images, how to fix?
-
Two things.....
Make sure you are using the latest version. http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,16446.msg111507.html#msg111507 Copy the DLL from here into your Mach3 / PlugIns folder.
Make sure the axis Scale DRO's are at +1.0000
Tweakie.
-
Hi,
I did what you said but the problem remains.
-
Are you running the latest version of Mach ?
It is also possible (although not confirmed) that you need to be running a licensed version, not the Demo version as per the .xml you sent me.
Tweakie.
-
Using the latest version of Mach3 with demo license.
I was considering buying, but if I buy the license and then the problem goes away?
-
Stand by one, I will remove the license from my version and see just what happens with an unlicensed version.
Back soon.
Tweakie.
-
hi,
Thank you very much
Andrea
-
Removing my license file made no difference so it does not matter if you are using a licensed version or not it should still work OK.
Could you please try with a square image (attached) and see what happens ?
Tweakie.
-
Hi, I tried, but the problem is the same.
-
Hi,the right image is created using the left lane,the left image is created using the right lane.
-
Is the total width of the created (double) work the same as the Width (X Axis) you specified in the plugin or is it wider ?
When using the plugin are you clicking on Calculate Parameters after making any changes ?
I am running out of ideas now :'(
Tweakie.
-
Hi,
if I double x, the result is this.
Push botton calculations after modification.
-
Hi,
sorry I did not understand your question.
The measures after etching are just those specified in the plugin
-
So it seems that it is completing the image (half width) in one direction then continuing to the end of the current line then completing another half width image on the return.
Sorry, but I really have run out of suggestions on this one, perhaps Art may check this thread and know the answer but it has certainly got me baffled.
Anyone else following this thread have any suggestions ?
Tweakie.
-
Hi
You have old model plugin
Its my plugin OK. http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,16446.40.html
Hi, I tried, but the problem is the same.
-
Hi,
my plugin is 2.00.075.
-
My plugin is 2.00.075 also.
Tweakie.
-
:)
Everything works.
It should not be activated 1 / 2 Pusl.
Now I can buy the license ....
I hope it can also be used for others ..
Thank you all.
-
Brilliant Andrea.
You have just become the resident expert on this plugin ;D ;D
Tweakie.
-
Yes ! Wery good Job. My machine not activate 1/2 pulse = work OK. Super.
:)
Everything works.
It should not be activated 1 / 2 Pusl.
Now I can buy the license ....
I hope it can also be used for others ..
Thank you all.
-
Hi to all.Laser 78 I was facing the same problem.You saved me .Thanks
-
Hello.Finally the solution that laser 78 proposed didnt work with me.I was facing exactly the same problem .Any ideas what it might be the fault? ???
-
Laser 78 , can you post your configuration?Thanks
-
hi,
I'm at work, I can not put my, give me your control that.
-
Hi,
I managed to retrieve the settings.
Try to see if it works well. ;)
-
ntlaser,
Are you getting double image similar to post 109 ?
Are you sure you are using the latest version of the plugin 2.00.075 ?
Tweakie.
-
Tweakie i have the latest version!! Laser 78 I dont see any difference.I face this problem since the beginning and I cannot find any solution:(
-
Hi,
could you give me your setup?
Andrea
-
ntlaser,
Could you please post a picture of the double image you are getting.
Tweakie.
-
Hello.I am posting the photos of the double image.With some other test I did ,I notice that the images come closer if i reduce the speed.I really dont know what to do!!
-
Hi,
give me your setup to control a thing.
Ciao Andrea.
-
ntlaser,
Looking at your Micken Mouse, the double image is not linear and this suggests to me that there could be a delay between the Mach digital trigger pulse being sent and the laser actually firing. Maybe that reducing your feedrate to something around 4 to 5 thousand mm/minute may produce different results.
Tweakie.
-
Tweakie thanks,
but when i am reducing to 5000mm/min the laser doesnt fire!
-
laser 78
which of the settings you need?
-
Hi, setup mach3 file xml.
-
how i find it?sorry
-
C:/mach3/mill.xml .
-
I have made to profiles 1 for cut and 1 for engrave ,with different names if it makes any difference.Thanks
-
Tweakie thanks,
but when i am reducing to 5000mm/min the laser doesnt fire!
Just a thought but it may be worth looking at the electronics train (TTL) to improve the voltage that you get at the laser input. IMO the laser should be triggering OK at 5,000 mm/min (mine triggers down to 3,000 mm/min). If you can get this sorted then I am reasonably confident that the double image problem will be cured and you can return to the 70,000 speed without issue.
Tweakie.
-
Thanks tweakie i will have a look.I am using pwm from mach board,so its little bit tricky to find the voltage and its frequency.
-
Thanks tweakie i will have a look.I am using pwm from mach board,so its little bit tricky to find the voltage and its frequency.
I think that is your problem.
I tried using the Mach PWM and dropped it in favour of 0 to 5 volt analog control for my max laser power.
Tweakie.
-
There is something going on with the combination of speed,kernel speed and the laser.I tried a reduced kernel speed and reduce motor speed and the laser fired at 3000mm/min.The image now is one above the other. It seems more linear the output of laser combined with the speed change.But the problem still exist and the speed I need for production is close to 50000mm/min ,by how it seems when the machine is running!!
-
I think this is because Mach has a lot to do just to calculate and generate the pulse stream so the PWM speed control comes second.
I really think you should consider the 0 to 5 volt analog or else construct a 'stand alone' PWM generator for the laser maximum current control. (Using a PIC which incorporates the HPWM it is not difficult to do and it will run from 5 volts and need less than 10 or so components to complete).
Tweakie.
-
Hallo ntlaser .
You have got old version firmware laser engraving.
See pictures .
Hello.I am posting the photos of the double image.With some other test I did ,I notice that the images come closer if i reduce the speed.I really dont know what to do!!
-
obal,
I have the same version! Thanks anyway
-
You have function Aspect Ratio ?
obal,
I have the same version! Thanks anyway
-
Obal,
Please excuse me if I am wrong but I think it is you that has the older software version.
The aspect ratio box was removed from the latest version although it was still defined as version 2.00.075 (bit confusing perhaps)
Tweakie.
-
Tweakie hello.I would like to ask you if you know, if i copy the xml file of my crashed hard disk and i copy it to the new mach3 folder ,would it keep my motor etc abjustments?Thanks
-
ntlaser,
Yes all settings are there (except any screen related macro's such as touch plate which are stored in the 1024.se1 or whatever screen file).
Tweakie.
-
Thanks
-
Hello,
The mode of operation of this plugin is through the pixels of an image? A pixel is a bit.
1 bits white----- laser ON
1 bits black ------ laser OFF
This is theoretically?
The working speed has no effect?
The "use 40us you click at triggertime"
What is it?
Best regards
-
Hi Stitos,
I think we are going round in circles on this and perhaps ending up just where we started. ;D
The mode of operation of this plugin is through the pixels of an image? A pixel is a bit.
1 bits white----- laser ON
1 bits black ------ laser OFF
This is not quite true because the images that we use have individual pixels which could be 1 bit but are more usually 8 bits per pixel. The plugin has to resolve each pixel into a stream of single bits (laser on/off) with relation to time (distance travelled).
The working speed has no effect?
This is not quite true because each single bit (laser on / off transition) is related to time and distance travelled so the working speed has a profound effect. Time x Distance = Speed.
You have already established that if you slow the speed down the laser does not fire.
And I tried it and it goes well, I see strange is that when I very low speed (30cm/min) will not turn on the laser. "Should be activated at any speed?
The dynamics of the plugin are related to laser characteristics which are :- 'more depth of cut at either higher power or lower speed' and 'less depth of cut at either lower power or higher speed'. Only Art knows exactly how his mathematical calculations achieved this but it is darn clever because it works.
With my use of the plugin I am only able to resolve 5 variations (3 shades of Gray plus Black and White) from any given 8 bit pixel, not sure exactly why this is but the end results are acceptable so I am happy.
Tweakie.
-
Hi,
The "use 40us you click at triggertime"
What is it?
Thank
-
As far as I am aware it is the length of the impulse on the digital trigger with 40uS for laser and 10uS for magnet.
I have only ever used the 40mS setting.
Anybody else have any more info on this ?
Tweakie.
-
Turning this parameter on the laser pulse is at most 40us. and clear it is 10us. assuming it is a white image?
I do not quite operation.
-
Hi Stitos,
Interesting one this.
I just ran two examples at the same power settings etc. The top one with 40uS unchecked and the lower one with 40uS checked and I was going to say that there is no difference between the two - until I saw the photo which does reveal a slight difference (the top one being better, perhaps).
I will investigate this further and see if I get a difference with other work.
Tweakie.
(please excuse typo in earlier post 40mS should read 40uS)
-
This was perhaps a trick of the light or camera function but from more tests carried out I can safely say that ( for my setup and triggering circuit ) it makes no difference at all if 40uS is checked or not, the end results are the same.
Tweakie.
-
I really feel the same, this function does nothing when finishing a job. So to ask if anyone knew it.
The trigger rate is variable,
varies according to the image and the speed of work?
There is a limit to maximum frequency?
A laser-white image fills it completely, it will not points.
Because the electromagnet a white image if he does spot?
-
For others that follow....
The trigger pulse width (digital trigger) will vary dependant on kernel speed.
It is 40uS at a kernel speed of 25kHz
30uS @ 35kHz
20uS @ 45kHz
10uS @ 100kHz
But this goes totally to pot if you select Sherline 1/2 pulse mode ;D
Tweakie.
-
What do's (previous SEQ not yet complete) mean.
-
cnl,
Basically it means that the core of the program (a routine called sequence one) is still running.
(use RESET to exit the program prematurely).
Tweakie.
-
To avoid double posting I have added some more information relating to this plugin in this thread, starting here. http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,12444.msg127947.html#msg127947
Tweakie.
-
Robotmar has paved the way for using this Mach3 Impact/Laser Engraver plugin for impact printing. His results are excellent but has anyone else managed to duplicate his success ??
I get good results using a laser but try as I may I just cannot get this magnet impact printing to work successfully. In fact the results are so bad that I am even ashamed to post any pictures of my work. My problem appears to be the usual one of speed where the digital trigger pulses are way too short and the response of the magnet is way too slow.
My next move is to build a magnet with far less mass to the moving parts (much smaller tungsten tip and shorter iron core) to see how well this performs but has anyone any other ideas or suggestions ??
Tweakie.
-
Hi Tweakie
If you give me your address I'll send you a magnet of my to make your own tests...
You give my mail on my web.
I did a lot of work and it works very well.
Best regards
Andrea
-
Thanks Andrea - PM sent.
Tweakie.
-
Many, many thanks to Andrea (Robotmar), who has provided me with a couple of his magnets, I have now started out on the road of Impact Engraving.
It is extremely slow at 300mm/min compared with the laser but as nothing can catch fire (unlike the laser) the machine can be left unattended to just get on with the job. The initial results are extremely promising and now I have produced a “standard”, with which to compare my results, I can perhaps experiment with some different settings and magnet drive configurations.
Andrea has discovered a good combination here :- the type of magnet, impacting the work on the return (spring) stroke and using one pole (phase) of a bipolar stepper motor driver as the power source. His method works beautifully and at the moment it is hard to see just where, or even if, any improvements to the system could possibly be made. Excellent work Andrea.
Something unexpected about this process is the sound – it sounds just like someone using a typewriter, an unusual sound to come from my CNC and a sound like I have not heard in years.
There is lots for me to learn here and I will post further results as I proceed.
If anyone else out there is using Art’s Impact/Laser plugin for impact work please let us know just how you are getting on with it and perhaps post some pictures of your work. Some information on your magnet and the drive source used would also be good.
Tweakie.
-
Where do you get one of those? Looks functional and a lot safer than my laser. Wonder if you can set up multiple heads and get more productive. Have any idea what the life cycle is expected to be?
-
Andrea is the expert on this, I am just a beginner. His site has more details http://www.robotfactory.it/
At the moment I am thinking that more force than currently available may be necessary for Marble, slate etc. but as said earlier I still have a lot to learn and a lot of experimenting to do.
Tweakie.
-
Sorry, I cant read Italian LOL
-
Se vuoi farlo ti troverà il modo. ;D ;D
Tweakie.
-
Sorry, I cant read Italian LOL
Google translate is your friend ;)
http://translate.google.com/#
To his website (translated)
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.robotfactory.it%2F
Hope that helps-
Dave
-
Cool thanks! that's a good start
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Machine magnet engraving .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylsMUTGTx1Q
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Hi Obal,
Thanks for posting the video link - that has given me something to think about. ;)
Tweakie.
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Over the past 3 months I have received a number of emails about Impact Engraving and how it has been made to work with Mach3. I certainly had many difficulties to start with so thought I should try to explain the principal for the benefit of others that follow.
The credit must all to go to Andrea for discovering ? that an electro-magnet can be driven directly from one phase of a bipolar stepper motor driver and the, perhaps obscure, principal that advantage can be taken from the fact that electromagnets, just like stepper motors will stall when pulsed too fast.
In operation and when at rest, a stepper motor shaft is locked but when that same stepper motor is pulsed too fast it will stall and then the shaft is free to rotate, in either direction, quite easily by hand – the energy within the coils is not transmitted to the iron core of the rotor or at least if it is transmitted then it is in complete balance and cancels itself out.
It is the same with an electromagnet – in operation and when at rest, it is energised but when it is pulsed too fast it will effectively ‘stall’ and drop out. As the pulse rate is reduced, a threshold is reached and at that point the electromagnet will again be energised and this is the way in which the impact engraver can be used.
The actual needle impacts with the work are made only on the ‘overshoot’ of the return or spring stroke and the Z height has to be precisely adjusted to take advantage of this. Setting up is perhaps easier the second time around but once mastered is extremely easy to reproduce.
There is still some work to be done here and I am perhaps lagging behind on updating the pdf document (Engraving.pdf http://www.cooperman.talktalk.net/Engraving.pdf) which so far attempts to cover Laser but not yet Impact – it is on my ‘to do’ list and will be completed as and when.
In the meantime if anyone else has any experiences with Impact Engraving I would be extremely please to hear them.
Tweakie.
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Hello!
I made a controller for engraving, but do not know what gives the plug-in mode of engraving.
how to control the force of impact?
if you can tell me in detail.
Thank you.
P.S. Sorry for bad English. translated in google.
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Hi Josaami,
The earlier post http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,16446.msg111240.html#msg111240 explains the magnet construction that both I and Andrea use and the next post http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,16446.msg111241.html#msg111241 shows how it is driven by one phase of a standard stepper motor driver circuit and also details the Mach3 configuration for it's use.
Another approach could be to make a dedicated controller such as this http://hobbycncart.com/_fr/1/3711394.jpg
I hope this helps.
Tweakie.
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Thank Tweakie.CNC!!!!
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Hello
Can anyone describe in detail how mach engraves shades of gray, ie what information it gives to the LPT port??
Mach changes the pulse duration or frequency, or simply the density of the shocks or something else then?? For me, this question remains a mystery.
Help please someone who can. I would really appreciate it!!
If you can draw a timing diagram.
Thank you!
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Hi Josaami,
Perhaps my pdf for the plugin may help http://www.cooperman.talktalk.net/Engraving.pdf
Tweakie.
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Thank you Tweakie.
You write that the frequency of the pulses on the LPT depends from the feeding and from of the frequency of kernel.
Question: each pulse is a blow head (I use to engrave a drum head)?
P.S. I really do not speak English, Sorry.
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Hi Josaami,
No worries about your English. ;)
Yes, each pulse on the Digital Trigger (LPT Output) is an impact.
The frequency of these pulses (set by feed rate) is related to the transducer you are using. For example ; the maximum I have achieved with an electromagnet is 21Hz http://hobbymaro.puhasoft.hu/Tweakie/Impact1.wmv and an air operated solenoid around 5Hz.
Something else you may wish to consider, which can produce similar results but in an entirely different way is DotG. http://dotg.weebly.com/
This software is free to download and use - it produces Mach3 compatible GCode and English translations of the manuals are available from their website. (Perhaps Google Translate may be useful in your deciphering of these documents).
Tweakie.
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Thank you Tweakie.
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Tweakie. I have another question:
obtained as shades of gray?
plug-in changes the frequency of the output pulses? or shades can not be obtained from this plugin?
Thank you so much!
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Hi Josaami,
Yes, you are quite correct, my mistake - in my earlier post I should have said the maximum frequency (set by feed rate).
Tweakie.
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Hi Tweakie,
I did not mean the maximum frequency.
I wonder whether you can engrave shades of gray. and how mach will be indicated on the shade? ie it changes the frequency of the output signal (from the minimum frequency of feed rate to the maximum frequency of feed rate), or even like that?
Thank you for your answers! They are very helpful!
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Hi Josammi,
I think I understand but please excuse me if I have misunderstood your question.
It is the ‘density of pulses’ (pulse repetition frequency) calculated from many factors including; pixel value, axis speed, axis steps per pixel and the Mach3 kernel speed which produces the shades of grey in the final image.
Tweakie.
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Hi Tweakie.
Thank you very much!
Now I understand everything!
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Now I understand everything!
Hi Josaami,
Once you start using the plugin and closely observing the results I think it will all become a lot clearer.
Tweakie.
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Hi Tweakie.
Thank you.
I will try.
Program for the microcontroller is already written. Now to try on the machine.
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Hi Josaami,
I hope it all goes well.
I would really like to see some pictures of your results, if you get time.
Tweakie.
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Hi Tweakie.
fine. if we can lay out photos.
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Hi Tweakie!
engraving was good!
shades of gray have not yet done. bitmap picture turned out.
photos very bad quality.
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As I have not posted any pictures here for a while I just thought you may like to see this one.
It was done using the plugin and laser into some scrap MDF.
Tweakie.
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Hi guys,
they are my first tests of my electomagnetic impact engraving.
I have redesigned the solenoid system for to increment feed of execution.
With my electronic I can switch resolution of steps train and I can make small and big photo
I can adjust the power of impact.
With low resolution can to go to 3000mm/m .
The system is almost ready.
I forgot to thank the forum for the help.
Some tests on granite and alluminium...
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Excellent work Pasquale.
What voltage are you using to drive your magnet ??
Tweakie.
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Hi, Tweakie,
currently the power supply is 48v, but I need to improve
the current control on the solenoid coil.
So I can to increase the voltage power supply to 90v for greater
impact speed at more of 3000mm/m.
This is very important problem, otherwise make a medium/big photo can to be too long
Thanks .
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Can you please clarify how the higher voltage helps in increasing the oscillating speed?
Dan
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Hi Dan...
increasing the voltage, the solenoid can work at frequency of osillation more high,
than the feed rate can to be more.
This happens because a coil opposes the current
with increasing frequency. The only way is to increase
the supply voltage.
But the current that circolate in the coil must be adjusted fine, otherwise can burning.
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Hi,
I think Tweakie has once mentioned this to me. But I still don't understand this, since as we know the current change rate on a coil is described by:
i(t) = I0-(R/L)t
So only depends on the inductance...?
Dan
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Hi Pasquale,
I think you are on the right track with the voltage. I am currently using 72Volts but have found that fine control of the pulse timing can also provide an increase in repetition frequency. As long as the voltage is removed just prior to impact the rebound increases the speed of the return stroke.
I am looking forward to hearing more about your developments and progress.
Tweakie.
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Of course.
It's very important to control the damping of coil ,
but isnt only electronic problem ......we have a mechanism.
Bad problem is resonance frequency of mechanism .
The Zobel network can be help, we have all components....
frequency, inductance and moving mass.
@Dan
no..... depends of many factors, including inductance
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This is schematic block diagram of my electronic...
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I am curious what are you using for current control? Is it an Op Amp?
Also what do you mean by the frequency divider?
Dan
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Hi, Dan
Now i use an opamp for constant current control, but
soon I will make a PWM control .
Frequency divider because isnt possible to drive electromagnet with frequency output of plugin...
...it's too high.
Of course, part of informations of the scan , will go down.
Anyway I would be happy to see your system used, for comparison .
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Hi Pasquale,
I don’t know if this will be of any help to you but I recently made a small change to the Engraving.dll to add an option (primarily for my laser use) to alter the formulae by which the pixel dot density is calculated. This may be of benefit with your slower axis speed.
Details of this change and the latest .dll are here. http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,12444.msg157668.html#msg157668
Tweakie.
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Hi Pasquale,
I don't have a working system. I attempted to build an electromagnet for this purpose some time ago but not completely understanding the physics behind it and wrongly assuming that it ought to be powerful to be able to engrave, I built a strong one. Then I saw that the plunger was too heavy and the coil had to much inductance and I couldn't drive it any fast. I reduced the plunger and the coil but it still was not enough. Haven't touched it ever since.
Not sure why you said PWM. I was asking about the practical current control in the circuit. What component will be controlling the MOSFET gate voltage? Only way I know of in the configuration you laid out is an Op Amp. But I built such a circuit and found it struggling to pulse the MOSFET at frequencies higher than about 10Khz. I think that possibly the specific Op Amp model was not suitable although it was 1Mhz band width I think.
Regarding the frequency divider, I think that Tweakie and Andrea were getting good results without this. So again not sure why you need it.
Dan
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Thanks Tweakie, i missed this update. I will try soon. Another thanks .
Ok Dan.......sorry for your problems...
My idea is make a constant current source with PWM control.
About the frequency divider, my experience is this, but can be wrong.
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Hi Tweakie,
I have tested your impact engraving release, but the result did not improve.
Of course this is due with my electronic interface , that distorts and changes
the grayscale compression.
Thank you for help.
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Hi Pasquale,
Thanks for reporting back on your results and I am sorry that the Greyscale compression did not help you.
I have not yet tried it with my impact magnet set-up but as soon as I get a bit of spare time I will.
Tweakie.
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Hi,
news about impact engraving on my blog ....
Thank you.
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Excellent write-up and excellent work Pasquale, a feed-rate of 3500mm/min + is a great achievement indeed.
Tweakie.
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Thank you Tweekie.
I have did your name for your the exellent correction of the plug in.
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Hi,
where can I find the latest version of Engrave plug-in for MACH3 (v.2.0) ?
I am currently using the (v1.1).
Also, where can I buy a inpact solenoid? Or are there a drawings so I can build one?
Thanks!
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Hi Skartalov,
Rather than me repeating everything all the details you have asked for are contained in this thread. ;)
Tweakie.
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Hello all!
first thanks to Andrea and Tweakie, not forgetting all that helped one way or other.
Maybe it's a dumb question, but will a stepper motor fully conected to a driver made with a lever system conected could achieve higher pulses so that it could short work time?
Any suggestion on how could that be achieved?
(sorry for my english)
By the way I used a professional solenoid from a pneumatic valve and worked quite well.
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Hi Jan,
I think that is one of those things you will just have to ‘try it and see’.
Basically, physics limits the speed in relation to the mass of the moving parts but I am certain we have not yet come up with the best possible design so I would be most interested in hearing the results of your experimentation.
Tweakie.
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Thanks twealie,one of the things that I discovered is that you can use an unexpensive solid state relay to power up the solenoid, that in this case was 220 ac,like this one-https://www.futurlec.com/Pictures/Solid_State_Relay_300.jpg.
Here it cost about 8 dollars,but can output 25 amps ,and the 5 vcc can make it work, but I could not see the hz limit of it's on/off .
A pneumatic solenoid water cooled (I put resin around it and mount the axis encapsulated) coud bend a more strong spring.
Soon posting photos.
anyway I'd like to give a try on Andrea coil-I have a crazy Idea on etching tombstones on it's site,I would go with a generator and a small machine that could be placed directly on the granite or mable.
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I have a crazy Idea on etching tombstones on it's site,I would go with a generator and a small machine that could be placed directly on the granite or mable.
Brilliant - there are a number of professionally made machines that do this task but they are not at all complicated so I think you could easily better their performance and design. ;)
The problem with SSR's is that they only switch at the 'zero crossing point' of the a.c. waveform so switching speed is limited to the frequency of the a.c. (here in the UK it is 50Hz and that is not really fast enough to be of any use).
Tweakie.
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I see, so the best is to make the scheme shown in the previous pages, one other question: when i do the process ,Mach doesnt show the drawing being made, is that correct or am i missing something?
Is there any other plugin or soft (best free)that could generate the g-code, so that it would be visible om mach?( my mach is licenced).
I translated the plugin to my language, but could not translate the menu that appears on Mach menu,is there a way to do it?
Yes , I know it is a lot of questions,but i am 52, and I want to make a little money on something I can do at home and can do outside.
I would even buy a professional one, but the price for transport and taxes would triplicate the price.
How can I get one of those heads that you and Andrea uses,that would be easier to transport.
Of course I would pay the part and the transport.
Please be patient, englishis not my language!
One last question again...I use Leafboy board to comunicate from my laptop to the machine.
my machine has 3 servo drivers and three servos.
I put one stepper driver to emulate the trigger , and put the trigger output to output 10 , conected the output 10 to the stepper driver , that is powered by an opto coupling.
So that now I use Z axis to aproximate the tol to the stone,and when the probe reaches the stone i know that the point of the tool is enough near the stone to start to engrave, in the other side of the probe I put a sphere screw that follows the surface so that I could switch the Z axis to THC , i guess that could allow me to engrave on a non flat surface..
What do you think about it?
Is that the correct or even good point to follow?
Again thanks for your answers and time!
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Running the Impact / Laser engraver takes much of the system resource so displaying the picture during operation would perhaps not be practical.
There are a number of different programs that will produce similar results. DotG comes to mind and this can be found here http://dotg.weebly.com/download.html
The start-up menu for the Impact / Laser plugin is written within the source code so you will not be able to make a translation of that part easily.
The electro-magnet Andrea and I have been using can, I think, still be obtained from him - check out his website or possibly drop him a line http://www.robotfactory.it/
I have never really thought about THC and engraving non-flat surfaces but that sounds like an excellent idea to me.
Tweakie.
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thanks tweaki!
But now I have a new problem!
I made a trigger based on a irf 640 to make the magnet work, I am still using my door car magnet that is 12 vcc.
All goes well in my test machine,that has a 25 pin interface.o a test on my big machine,that is
Well,all working,time to put it to my 'big' machine, that has a interface that is usb,
I seted the digital trigger to output 7 ,before running the plugin I tested the circuit as 'mist' toggle, it was ok.
But when I put to digital trigger and run the impact plugin, a message appeared that the plugin can run only in 'printer mode'......
All functions on USB work well on my mach, that is updated and licensed, I think it is a compile problem on the plugin.
Any ideas how to solve this?
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Here the trigger:
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Here the error,
and the board!
It´s an Aqua modified to portuguese 9you can see that it has the engraving still not translated)
(http://rockhill-555.world.coocan.jp/bbs/joy-b/img/1006.jpg)
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Hi Jan,
Your trigger circuit looks fine and that is a very nice screen set you have produced :)
Unfortunately, the plugin will only support parallel port operation at this time :(
Tweakie.
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Hi Tweakie,
It is a pity!
With USB you can use a much powerful cpu.
This one is installed in a Dell I7,with 6 gb mem and a 2 gb video board.
And it is a Dell notebook you can take it everywhere.
I have another Dell note a 5500 with core2duo and will give a try.
Thanks a lot for your time !
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Tweakie,
I have been following your work for a while. Your posts have greatly helped me for the last few years. I used the Impact engraving plugin for years and it worked well speed wise. I have now upgraded to a 5x10 1500IPM Ethernet driven smoothstepper machine. I used PicEngrave that you had recommended in one of your posts. And it works but as you can imagine it's much slower because of the many lines of code and small movements.
So my question is do you have any recommendation for the impact plugin to work with the ESS board? or any alternative method to laser engraving other than rastering with Gcode.
Thank's for you help!
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Hi Enphecktor,
Unfortunately, because of the way in which the plugin works it cannot be used with the ESS board.
For vector laser engraving you may wish to give this method a try ?? http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,12444.msg194200.html#msg194200
Tweakie.
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Sorry Guys...
Ive notified the m4 guys.. little I can do till they fix it..
Art
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Here the trigger:
I've read this thread all the way through, but I don't see any plans available on how to build the impact device. I've been through http://www.robotfactory.it/ site as best I could even with Google translate and still don't see one for sale or anything.
So does anybody wanna spend the time to post up some viable methods to make one of the gadgets?
Please?
I'm not the most savvy on schematics. I know there's a lot smarter folks than me that this is sufficient for.
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Hi Vogavt,
A bit more reading for you http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,16446.0.html
I think this explains the construction of the magnet.
Tweakie.
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Hi Vogavt,
A bit more reading for you http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,16446.0.html
I think this explains the construction of the magnet.
Tweakie.
Good one, Tweakie! Got a chuckle out of your link.
Anyway, for the rest of us illiterate in reading schematics posted here, could someone provide a useful answer to my question?
Presuming I've figured out how to build the magnet as Tweakie suggested, what actually drives it?
I have a Gecko 540 (all 4 axis are in use), but can I assume I need to purchase another single driver board and say I hook it up configured for Axis-B and connect the newly constructed impact magnet to it? I do have a second Parallel Port that I could drive the 5th axis with, maybe.
Thanks in advance!
Vogavt
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Hi Vogavt,
My apologies if I have confused the issue. As you will have already read…
Andrea found that electromagnets ‘stall’ in the same manner as stepper motors ‘stall’ and he used this principle to drive his magnet from one phase of a bipolar stepper motor driver. This is probably the easiest method to at least get started with impact engraving and as you have mentioned another single axis driver board will be required. As only the ‘step’ pulse is required you may not need to fit a second parallel port.
In the quest for more speed and higher impact force I have turned to higher drive voltages and TTL / Transistor switching of the magnet but this requires some knowledge of electronics / circuit diagrams etc.
The whole process (and the software plugin) is perhaps still experimental because I believe we have not yet found the best way so please report back on your progress and we can all learn together.
Tweakie.
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I'm looking at a TB6560 TB6560 3A Driver Board x2 (single axis board) found on eBay.
I do understand that I only need to use the A+ and A- (or B+ and B-).
The question is that it has 6 inputs and I'm not sure how to connect it.
Any guidance for starting would be appreciated as I don't want to fry anything!
Features:
Current grade-by-adjustable to meet your demand for a variety of applications.
Semi-automatic flow adjustable.
6N137 high-speed optical coupling, guarantee high speed without losing step.
Plate printed setup instructions operation without manual also.
Tthick teeth radiator, good heat dissipation.
TB6560 3A CNC Router controller stepper motor driver board.
Size: 75*50*35mm (L*W*T)
Rated maximum output: ± 3A, peak 3.5A.
Working voltage DC 10V-35V. Recommended to use a switching power supply DC24V power supply.
For two-phase within 42,57 stepping 3A / four-phase / of line four / six-wire stepper motor, and is not suitable for stepper motor over 3A.
Automatic half current function.
6N137 high-speed optical coupling, guarantee high speed without losing step.
Subdivision: whole step, half-step, step 1/8, 1/16 step, a maximum of 16 Subdivisions.
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I'm looking at a TB6560 TB6560 3A Driver Board x2 (single axis board) found on eBay.
I do understand that I only need to use the A+ and A- (or B+ and B-).
The question is that it has 6 inputs and I'm not sure how to connect it.
Any guidance for starting would be appreciated as I don't want to fry anything!
The driver board information says that 5Volt signals are expected - firstly check that your computer's LPT parallel port is outputting 5 Volt signals rather than 3.3 Volt signals (a task for a multimeter).
For the inputs...
All that is needed is an LPT output pin (configured in Mach3 as an Active High axis step pin) connected to the driver board CLK +
and a Gnd (any of the LPT pins 18-25) connected to both the driver board CLK - and EN -
A suitable psu is connected to GND / +24
For the output...
The electromagnet connects to A+ / A- (or B+ / B-)
Tweakie.
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Thanks! That definitely gets me started.
I'm also adding a photo for the Active High configuration (the previous was for Active Low) just for future reference.
And a couple more photos as well. Maybe you could look at those too and provide some thoughts on how to set the dip switches, etc. to get things moving. I can play around with them, no problem, but it looks like there would be an exponential number of combinations possible where either it would pulse, would pulse poorly or not at all.
I'll order the board and post the results back here once things are sorted out.
Hopefully, I won't have too many more questions.
Cheers,
Vogavt
There's also a caveat on their website.
Note:
1. Should be repeated to check the wiring before power. Pick the wrong line may burn the chip!
2. The current setting should not exceed the rated motor current.
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I would set the running current dip switches at their lowest current setting to start with. If the magnet stays cool during operation then increase the current setting until such time as the magnet runs warm to the touch (but not exceeding 60 deg.C).
As for the other dip switch settings I think S2 should be OFF but you will just have to experiment with the others to find the best combination (I would start with S2 OFF and all others ON).
Tweakie.
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Thanks, Tweakie!!
I'm now looking at another solenoid but have some questions about its specifications: Strong solenoid (http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-24V-0-3A-20mm-3-5LB-Force-Push-Pull-Type-Tubular-Solenoid-Electromagnet-/311253980978?hash=item48782ed732)
Product Name Solenoid Electromagnet
Rated Voltage DC 24V
Rated Current 0.3A
Force& Stroke 20mm, 3.5LB / 1.6Kg
Type Pull Push
Type Body Size 46 x 23 x 18mm/1.8" x 0.9" x 0.7"(L*W*H)
Plunger Bar Mount Thread M3
Cable Length 10cm/4"
Material Metal, Electronic Parts
Color Silver Tone, Black
Weight 95g
Description:
Pull push type, linear motion, open frame, plunger spring return, DC solenoid electromagnet.
Widely used in automatic control equipment: office equipment, financial equipment, communications equipment, automatic door locks of a variety of electronic, electrical and electronic parts, all kinds of game machines, auto parts.
What concerns me is the response time. IIRC, someone stated they were having issues with the mass for a larger solenoid, i.e., it was slow.
This one packs a punch but I suspect it's only for the first part of the stroke (from looking at other graphs for other solenoids).
Now the question.
Since I'm only going to be pulsing the solenoid, is it safe to say that I will never reach a full stroke and therefore only need to worry about the full amount of travel due to only pulsing?
Earlier, it was stated that someone was looking at higher voltages in order to get a higher impact? Since the impact (newtons', pounds, or KG's) is localized into the tip, I would think that it shouldn't be too much.
I've been looking for an electromagnet like the ones that were shown in the first few posts of this thread, but since no specs were given about them, I'm struggling. I simply don't have the funds to buy a plethora of solenoids just to find out what works and what doesn't.
Shouldn't I be looking at a Push type for the actual force and pulling/return by a spring?
Any help or direction would be appreciated.
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Hi Vogavt,
I think the choice of and the actual setting-up of the magnet is still a matter for much experimentation but if this helps…
I use a stroke length of approximately 1 mm and strike the work when the magnet is energised. Obviously, the shorter the stroke length the faster the operation but the less the impact force. As you have mentioned, the small tool tip size allows us to get away with this but it’s still all a matter of compromise. If you are using a stepper driver to power the magnet then you will be striking the work on the release stroke so the return spring pressure will also figure in the equation.
For my set-up I have tried to keep the mass of the moving parts low, the pulse length short and the operating voltage high but I am still learning with all this.
Just as an example this image was produced using the M10P1 / M11P1 commands to operate my magnet from Gcode produced using Dot-G. The post-processor used is exactly the same as for laser work it is just the feed-rate that has been changed.
Tweakie.
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Tweakie,
I've been doing a lot of reading on the M10/M11 usage with DotG.
Just to clarify, if using DotG, then the Gcode it produces (with the modified post processor for Mach3), I don't need to use the impact engraver plugin at all. Just load the gcode and run in Mach3. Correct?
Seem logical but thought I might need to point that out for clarification.
Vogavt
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Just to clarify, if using DotG, then the Gcode it produces (with the modified post processor for Mach3), I don't need to use the impact engraver plugin at all. Just load the gcode and run in Mach3. Correct?
That is correct.
However, there are subtle differences between the end results produced by each method. Dot-G relies on dot-dithering (a one bit process) to produce the 'illusion of shade' whereas the plugin uses an 8 bit process to produce 'shade' without the necessity for a dot-dithering algorithm.
Tweakie.
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Appreciate the info.
I'm still sorting out the impact engraver and its combined hardware, but in the meantime (since this thread jumped track onto the laser type) I've had a little free time to look into the laser usage with the plugin.
I was wondering since I'd purchased the driver board listed earlier if I could simply connect a laser like this one (http://jtechphotonics.com/?product=445nm-laser-diode-component) from jtechphotonics up to the board and simply use a toggle switch to control either the laser or the impact engraver.
Or do I need to get a full kit (http://jtechphotonics.com/?product=1-7w-445nm-laser-diode-and-2-0-amp-adjustable-driver-kit) from them but still need to drive it with my board (or not)?
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I was wondering since I'd purchased the driver board listed earlier if I could simply connect a laser like this one from jtechphotonics up to the board and simply use a toggle switch to control either the laser or the impact engraver.
You could use either a magnet or a laser with the plugin but the device drive requirements would be different for each. For example, the diode laser would require it's own, dedicated, current controlled power supply.
Tweakie.
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If you are using a stepper driver to power the magnet then you will be striking the work on the release stroke so the return spring pressure will also figure in the equation.
I am using a stepper driver but my electromagnet is a push-type not a pull-type. But from what you're saying, will I still be firing backwards? Seems like it would be moving in the down-stroke toward the material when the pulse is given.
I'm headed to the shop (finally) to wire this bad boy up using the information at hand.
Hopefully it will be smooth enough to at least get the magnet moving, then I can start to tweak on it a bit.
Will report back.
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Well, I'm using the second parallel port, pins 8 & 9 and am having no issues getting the 5 VDC showing when plugged directly into the DB25.
However, when I run it through the cnc4pc C10 card and out, then check the voltage, I get a -2.7 volts!?
I've loaded a couple different images and can see the voltage change when straight out of the pp so I think that would work and forego the C10 all together, but I'd really like to use the C10 to get the extra inputs, etc. (That's the reason for buying it).
I went ahead and connected to the TB6560 3A Driver Board just to see if the small voltage changes were enough to get the electromagnet moving.
No joy unless I have the board set for 1.9 amps, then the rod just stays extended, i.e., activated. I reconfigured the TB6560 3A Driver Board's switches, backing it down to 1.6 amps (rod stays in) and have begun various iterations with the other switches. After a couple of hours of trial & error, it still doesn't respond.
Gonna try with the C10 tomorrow. For those of you that do have the C10, I will say that I have the 2-9 outputs common set to 5vdc as recommended by their literature. That's the only way I was seeing any changes in voltage. If I have it set to GND, I see nothing.
Anyway, wasn't sure if I needed to go to another thread.
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Hi Vogavt,
Thanks for reporting back on you progress with this. Interesting about the -2.7 volts output from the C10 - I have absolutely no idea what is going on there.
I think it is just fine to continue using this thread for the discussion.
Just some basic notes regarding driving an electromagnet from a stepper driver which may help others that follow to grasp the principle being discussed here...
1) If an appropriate a.c. voltage is applied to an electromagnet it will be energized.
2) If the frequency of that a.c. voltage is progressively increased there will come a point when the magnet is no longer energized - it will drop-out or stall (in exactly the same manner as a stepper motor stalls). This principle was used by Andrea to drive his magnet and initially paved the way for us all to follow.
3) The set-up is arranged so that the work is only impacted when the magnet stalls.
4) In operation the plugin scans an image and outputs a series of short (40mS) pulses, the repetition rate or frequency of these pulses varies in proportion with the individual pixel value of the image being processed. The greater the repetition rate the more often the magnet stalls and the more it impacts the work.
Hope this helps,
Tweakie.
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Took the C10 out of the loop and confirmed the 5vdc on the secondary PP using pin 8 and port 2 and pin 18 port 2. I then connected them to stepper driver, and after changing some active high-low settings I got the reading to 0 volts. My thinking is it should start at 0 and see an increase in the voltage as the demands from the plugin are needed. However, I'm seeing negative numbers again when the X & Y move as the scanning starts. I would have thought the voltage would be in the positive direction.
Just to be clear, I'm not getting any movement still, even after attempting several different dip switches.
I may be close but not sure what kind of numbers I should be expecting.
It could be either too much mass in the solenoid I'm using, but not sure.
I'm putting my xml file so someone can look at it to see what I may have configured incorrectly.
Any help would be appreciated.
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Working!
The most important piece of advice first: I can say that having some rest and looking at this with a fresh set of eyes does wonders.
I have found that proper wiring configuration is critical! LOL!
I can also say that using a higher strength electromagnet as I started with would not move due to the voltage differences I was seeing.
So I'd purchased an irrigation sprinkler replacement solenoid which has a smaller electromagnet and I finally began to see some movement. However, since this is a pull type solenoid, I may have to drill out the metal stop at the top and invert the thing plus fabricate another rod on my lathe to actually have a push pin sticking out that I can connect tip to.
I purchase a pin vise locally which I plan to couple up to the new rod. It has a collet on the end which will facilitate changing the tip when needed.
It has four different hole sizes so it can take any size tip from 0" to 0.125".
But all this was only after making changes to the ports & pins too so don't bother looking at the Impact-Vogavt.xml. It's definitely no longer valid.
Perseverance paid off.
I'll post photos at a later date.
Thanks for the input!
Now I've got to do some tweaking with the other dip switches but at least it's running as is.
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I am pleased you are making good progress.
Tweakie.
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As the original link seems to have disappeared, the latest version of the Impact / Laser plugin (v1.2c) can be downloaded from here;
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=12444.0;attach=41519
Tweakie.
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Hi Tweakie,
I have just test your plugin, everything works well except that the power of laser is weak ( I have turn up it to max using potentiometer and test without plugin OK).
Can u tell me how many can we increase the power of laser
THanks so much.
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Hi Tweakie,
I have just test your plugin, everything works well except that the power of laser is weak ( I have turn up it to max using potentiometer and test without plugin OK).
Can u tell me how many can we increase the power of laser
THanks so much.
This is something I have been working on but never seem to have had enough time to complete the constructional details of the project.
Increasing the plugin’s maximum duty cycle cannot be done from within so I have built an external, for want of a better name ‘pulse extender’ which will allow the duty cycle to be extended at any pre-selected feed-rate thereby producing an apparent increase in output power. This post relates https://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,12444.msg200818.html#msg200818
When I get the time to spare this project will definitely be completed but, sorry to say, it will not be soon.
Tweakie.
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Thanks for ur reply
U mean that, there is no solution for this case, so sad.
My Laser is DIY CO2 Laser, ratio is 1:1 ( Steps per : 32). If it's slow it's OK to me
Thanks.
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With a CO2 laser you should not be having any problems of low power - my pulse extender is intended to allow the use of low power diode lasers (down to 150mW or so).
Are you using a feed-rate of at least 3,500 mm/min ??
Tweakie.
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My config: Steps per:32, (driver 1:16). feedrate 9000 (default òf the plugin), enable port 17 (connect to laser low active wire) digit trigger, velocity: 1000, accelerate: 300, dir pulse: 1us, kernel : 25kH
I really can not figure out the problem. Hope from ur help now, can u tell me how many way to increase the power, so I can adjust it to check the problem
My Co2 laser (in testing)
https://scontent-hkg3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t35.0-12/12646671_10205409192494765_4904210436940320729_o.jpg?oh=5b3a406891e59c2cd9cdc77eb85b61fc&oe=56A829C6
Thanks so much.
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Assuming you are working in millimeters I think you need to increase your axis velocity to 3500 (only if necessary perhaps reduce acceleration slightly) and also set the plugin feed-rate to 3500 everything else looks OK.
Tweakie.
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hi Tweakie,
As always see if you can help me.
I have seen excelent results in impact engraving , but not related with the dig trigger or using anything from eletronics, at least not the way we use.
I saw that the impact solenoid keeps vibrating on aprox. 0,4 mm up and down , but what engraves the material is the z axis moving slightely up and down.
This way it even engraves variabling the depth of impact causing excelent results.
What do you think about this, and wich soft should I use?
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Hi Jan,
I take it that you are referring to the continuously running impact engraver tools as shown in this video; http://www.cooperman.talktalk.net/impact5.wmv
These tools are best suited to vector engraving such as DXF files so any software that will create Gcode from a DXF should be good.
I have not actually tried using one for raster engraving but I am sure it could work albeit rather slowly. Not sure about the best software for this though.
Tweakie.
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I have send you a PM . with the video link.
Good Morning (at least here!).
What I was telling you is about pictures or photo engraving.
I tried with the electro magnet , using the dll in mach ,and I tried with dotg , but it seems to me that if I want a fast drawing the impact should be continuous and the intensity of the engraving should be determined by the movement of the 'z' axis.
At exactly 4:19 you will notice a slightly variation of the z axis , and it is not determined by the suposed 'thc' system.
It seems that the impact oscillation is continuous , but the deepness is controled by Z.
The bolt gives a continuous distance between head and material using the thc up and down feature.
What I have doubt is the software they are using , it is called fotograv in some videos ,and Graver5 in others .
The thing is that is much faster than using the impact needle to impact on the way I thouht , and I must say, I need to work, things around here are too difficult, and I have some work on this field,I would be thankfull if you or any other member could help developing and making this work.
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Hi Jan,
As said earlier I have never actually tried raster engraving with a continuously running impact engraving tool but you may wish to look at software such as Vectric PhotoVCarve which will create a varying Z axis movement toolpath dependant on image shade. There are also other image to Gcode softwares available, some having a ‘try before you buy’ option. Perhaps also research the operating principle of the Roland Metaza as this may be relevant.
The difficulties I can foresee are specifying the correct Z axis travel in the software and setting the machine’s Z axis height also the travel of the impact needle.
Another approach may be to optimise the image (optimum brightness, contrast, sharpness, etc.) using PhotoShop (or similar).
Dot-dither the 8 bit image using PhotoGraV (or similar) reducing it to 1 bit resolution.
Convert the image to a raster-scan Gcode toolpath which has varying Z axis height dependant on image shade such as Mach1Filter.exe (or similar).
Again setting up the machine’s needle height and travel distance may be tricky.
Tweakie.
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Hi guys , finally solved al the problems!
first pic is a photoshop created by me, the second engraved by impact with diamond,3000 mm per minute and modulated impact.
Don´t worry about the face hadn't had lunch yet.
I must say that even in this speed it took almost 5 hours to complete the image, it was done on a 256 dpi,
It has 600 x300 mmm and made on granite.
Have been selling some images for tombstones and decoration, this kind of engraving is not known in Brasil yet, so i think it will grow in the future, my machine is made by me, with servo motors soit is very realible, and i let it work through the night
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I used the plugin that is almost the same that tweakie used, but it was adapted by Kazuki.
It is incredible, he manged to make it useful even in usb new boards,
I used high power magnets with a lever construction with a really strngth coil ,but with a pull movment, so i could achieve a high speed response.
I also used a step motor circuit to power the coil of the magnet, and i used a voltage regulator to dose the strength of the impact.I bought 10 diamond tips from china by 20 dollars,very cheap,and after making more than 20 granites , it is still useable,and i have 9 more to use,very cheap, i guess it is cheaper than laser.
And it really impacts the granite, or steel or glass.
Pls be free to ask question, but I advise you...it a make and mistake until you get there.
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Other works
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Excellent work Jan, my congratulations.
Tweakie.
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Thanks for sharing! Are you using the Parallel Port plugin? I have a machine controlled by Pokeys which I am interested to be able to do impact engraving on. Trying to work out a way to do this. How are you doing this?
Dan
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Dan , a lot of work,yes you can use the plugin that is available some pages before this , i can use the 1.2 version, but I use a version that kazuki Tomura did , It is a version of the same, it has some nice improving , he uses for laser, but you can use it with impact.
Diferently from tweakie I use a lever , but the principle is the same , although what moves on my device is the coil, the magnets stays static.
It's very useful to use because you can use the machine as a router or as impact, you can see the spindle on my machine, just behind the impacter.
here a print screen on tomuras ( tom-tom) plugin.
Notice that my mach is registered and i made a skin for it in portuguese
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Some other info;
Open in PSP the picture , make a mask around it and pitch it black around, increase contrast and use filters to show up details ( i use sharpmore) , make the image as grayscale and after bitmap and 250( you can decrease or increase to match the measure of the image) pixels per inch.
Adjust the size in the plugin to match your granite , use a powerfull cpu, i use a I5 , with 6 gb , and a 2 gb video board , if possible use a solid state hd , it tooks seconds to load the image.
The most long work took me 7 hours, but since i have a machine with servos i let it run during the night.
The impacter i use a 24 volts , variable voltage , i generally use from 12 to 16 volts on the impacter.
I use the pin 8 to impact, just put it as digital trigger...and the signal i put on a common driver , those that they use on arduino, you can find it easilly on aliexpress, so, i have a power source 24 volts x 5a , a dc-dc regulator , and a step motor driver , detail: jump the input of signal and direction , and jump the output, the two coil output a- and B- together and a+ and B+ together , as you have impact on your impacter you can adjust it through the dc-dc regulator
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Thanks for the detailed reply Jan. Where can the Tomtom plugin be downloaded/purchased?
Dan
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Directly with him.
I will ask if he allows me to share.
But as Said the impact plugin that is the key of this discussion Works as fine.
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Art's plugin won't work, to the best of my knowledge, with any controller other than the printer port driver, as it is hard coded into the motion planer.
Dan
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I ama now trying GRBL , that seems to handle usb in full . I ain't got fully satisfied yet , specially when you have high detailed pics , but it seems that is an unsoluble affair since you have the persistance of the coil movement, you have to be satisfied with the slowness of any impacter.
\it is the same as you have a strobo light...you will only see the strobo effect after a certain frequency, above that frequency you know it is still blinking, but your eyes will see a plain light.
It is the same with the impacters,you know the pulses are being sent,but the impacter has not enough speed to return to the position above the material,and ,combined to the feed rate ,you cant get it over 300 mm per minute on engraving and 3000 mm on blank areas.
I just made a symbol of Rzeczpospolita Polska ,just 100 x100 mm and took about 20 minutes.
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Can you estimate the max frequency of the solenoid?
Dan
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about 50 hz.
I guess this is the max frequency I can get.
Although I think 30 hz has a better finish.
I usually leave about 0.3 mm of gap between diamond tip and the material.
It was quite difficult in the begining but now i can get better results.
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Just to mention, if your using a Pokeys 57CNC, Auggie should be capable of operating a solenoid at 1Khz frequency update period
of the pwm during a photo engraving. It controls lasers at 1Khz resoltion through PWM control of each 1ms waypoint, dont see
where a solenoid be that much different..
Art
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maybe I am misunderstanding since english is not my mother language..
I understand that 1 khz means 1000 cycles ( up and down) of the tip of the tool?
It would only produce - in my machine- a humble and not really impact.
I use black and white , as in a dithering , just like the picture below.
For sure i will go on researching and trying , but it works for me , to each point in the pic it seems that the engraver gives many impacts, it runs away from me how to explain , but I assumed it as frequency ( yes, I know, I suck at the technology)
I just go on until it works!
By the way, thanks Art and Tweakie, it all begin with you and pls forgive-me if i missed someone.
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Another example...
This pic was asked by a friend , he seht me the file via whatsapp, low resolution and with a little blur.
In this case i did a lot of photoshop , changed to grayscale and bitmapp, i saved and put to work.see the final ,It is as always barzillian granite called here 'black diamond' .
The pic was taken by my old S3 samsung phone...I can assure that live it is much more nicer!
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Those are very good.
Art
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Can you estimate the max frequency of the solenoid?
Dan
??
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about 50 hz.
I guess this is the max frequency I can get.
Although I think 30 hz has a better finish.
I usually leave about 0.3 mm of gap between diamond tip and the material.
It was quite difficult in the begining but now i can get better results.
here Dan !
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Oh.. sorry Jan. I missed that. Thank you. I built a solenoid and have been playing with it and the max frequency I can get is about 35 Hz. Above that it would just lock up. Interesting what others can get.
Dan
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35 hz shoud be more than enough!
I made today an interface with GRBL and arduino uno 3 , (yes I know this is a mach thread).
I got 5000 mm and 100HZ,in an all neodimium impacter...it went great till now.
An all neodimium means that the lever has two magnets on each side and two more magnets mounted against these two, so the lever floats between those magnets,it´s a great solution for increasing frequency of impact
I also modulated the grayscale on pwm attributing 0- 0-0v-to white and 254-10-24v-to black.
It worked awsome , gona get a pwm for my impact plugin too.
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WOW!! 100Hz !? This is amazingly fast! On the video it doesn't sound that fast...
What is the construction of your impacter? Dimensions?
Dan
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It is a limit!
I use 1/4 chinese single diamond dresser, it costs about 4 to 5 dollars, i bought ten and with 100% of taxes (i live in Brasil where we are stolen by the government) i spent 100 dollars or 340 reais.
the size is 8 cm x8cm x 8 cm , the lever has 5 cm and power coils about 4 cm , they are round.
In the video you will have more frequency and strength on wich way you make the pics, for example, if you leave it as greyscale you have a slower rate, but best quality, if you make them bitmap , just black and white and dithered you have faster rate and faster frequency, because it will undestand just two positions, ov-white or 24 v black , so you can achieve faster frequency.
Frequency in this case is achieved with 5000 mm/sec on feedrate , so that it will allow the lever to go up and down more times.
You can also refine your images, because you can go up to 300 dpi´s . I will continue to explore the limits and , of course, if limits are best quality.
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Dan, just take a look at a tatoo drawer, it´s exactly where i took my idea, and afterwards I took of the spring and used magnets. there is a coil(electric) on one end, and is sided by two powerfull neodimium magnets, this gives the movement, in the oher side , before the diamond tip i had a spring, now i have 4 smaller neodimium magnets, that always repels themselves.I pluged the coil in a stepper driver , shutting both a+ and B+ in one side and both a- and b- in the other wire , i shuted (jumped) both dir and step inputs on the s' or digital trigger from the board to the step driver , this will be the same as a laser ttl+ and ttl-.
In the compiling make the signal be more than 90 ms , or you won´t have impact, but a noise.
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Hi Jan Mozol.
I make my cnc now and I want to ask if you can put on image of wiring of the driver and magnets here?
it help me a lot!!!
Thank you!
Sorry for my English!
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Hi, it will depend of what kind of hardware you are using, the best I could achieve was using a l298 and a dc-dc step down.
The thing is that the digital trigger from Mach3 must be conected together in step and dir of the l298.
don´t worry about english, I'm from Brasil and my english is terrible!
I am now triyng to find a different approach , instead of just using digital trigger, i am tryng to combine it with the pwm signal using the attached software to generate the g-code,
Give it a try , you can choose between S or Z generation , one will be used on digital trigger the other can be used to engrave slowly and with z .
The soft is in brazillian portuguese
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See this scheme , maybe will help you.
Yes...it is paint ,lol.
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Please understand I am very new in this kind of problem.I buy this driver:TB6560 3A CNC Router Single 1 Axis Controller Stepper Motor Driver Module; from ebay and I dont know what type of magnet to buy?!I want to use Mach3, impact&laser engraver .
Where have to wiring the driver? On breakoutboard?Please help me! but in slow motion!
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If you use the tb6560 is just the same.
Just put the 5 vcc+ to clk+ and cw+ and digital trigger to both clk- and cw-. then put dc+and dc- to =24 and gnd , the coil of impacter should be connected to a+ and b+ from one side and a- and b- to the other.
Unhapilly I made my coil and assembled the magnets manually.i just gave 96 rounds of 26 awg copper wire around a round piece of mild steel (high carbon) of 10 mm ( a slice) and i use resin to envelope the coil, it has 10 mm width and 25 mm overall.
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Ok ,but you know one type of magnet what I can use?
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Please understand I am very new in this kind of problem.I buy this driver:TB6560 3A CNC Router Single 1 Axis Controller Stepper Motor Driver Module; from ebay and I dont know what type of magnet to buy?!I want to use Mach3, impact&laser engraver .
Where have to wiring the driver? On breakoutboard?Please help me! but in slow motion!
I recomend you to follow the post since the begining , and watch over the links everybody placed , to help you imagine two magnet fixed on aluminium side by side repelling themselves and this coil in the middle, the coil is in a lever and the lever allows movement of about 10 mm up and down , that is the impacter.
The magnet shoul be neodymium , at least 5000 gauss and a good mass , these in attach would be ideal.The second one is 10x10 mm 5600 gaus , i use 2 of them one in front of the other repelling
I based my coil on this one attached , i unwired it and did it very narrow ,10 mm
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Jan Mozol
I still not understand!
where have to conect the driver(for impact magnet)is a special contact for this digital trigger?
can you make some photo of you board?
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Jan Mozol
how can i send to you some pictures?
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Already answered you in email, ok?
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Hi there,
I have a laser machine that I've made it myself . I use match3 for controlling my CNC laser machine and I don' have any problem for cutting, but the only problem I've got is that I cannot engrave with high speed. for example if i wanted to engrave one photo, it would take hours to complete! I had been searching and watching some videos on YouTube to understand how to engrave with high speed and noticed some videos that were engraving with really high speed by using the same Match 3 software. I installed the plugin impact/laser Engraving v1.2b on match 3 and when I run this plugin and give the photo for engraving, the machine starts to move by x axial and y axial. My problem is that the signal that should be sent to laser co2 for on and off ,from which pin or axial is getting out?
I control my laser with PWM spindle signal.
Thanks in advance for your reply
Regards,
Javad
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The laser On / OFF control is on whichever Port and Pin number you allocate to the Digit Trig (Config / Ports & Pins / Output Signals).
Tweakie.
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The laser On / OFF control is on whichever Port and Pin number you allocate to the Digit Trig (Config / Ports & Pins / Output Signals).
Tweakie.
Thanks for your relpy.i don't use Digit Trig. it is not enabled. I use port number 1 and Pin number 9 analog signal PWM 0-10 V ADJ spindle motor for controlling the power of laser and turning it on and off.
what do you mean exactly by Digit Trig? I want to engrave like the CNC laser of the following link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHMXP45hYUc
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The plugin was writen to use the digital trigger .this is the only way to engrave.You can cut and burn with output and pwm.But not engrave.
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The plugin was writen to use the digital trigger .this is the only way to engrave.You can cut and burn with output and pwm.But not engrave.
Hi there,
How should I use digital trigger? which pin should be allocated to digital trigger???!!
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Quote from my pdf document...
The specified parallel port pin# which has been associated to the Digital Trigger and configured Active Low should be connected to the laser’s Active Low trigger input.
http://www.cooperman.talktalk.net/Engraving.pdf
Tweakie.
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Is laser's active low trigger input the same TTL input related to the power supply of laser?? Shall I connect the output of the pin allocated to the Digit Trig to TTL input of power supply laser??!
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Does this diagram help ?
Tweakie.
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Hi guys , just came to show jewels (pingents) being made by impact plcin, this time I reduced the speed...just 5000 mm/minute!
These are my son, and my wife!
https://youtu.be/qFBbIUDsGWM (https://youtu.be/qFBbIUDsGWM)
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Very nice work Jan Mozol.
Tweakie.
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Does this diagram help ?
Tweakie.
Is laser's active low trigger input the same TTL input related to the power supply of laser?? Shall I connect the output of the pin allocated to the Digit Trig to TTL input of power supply laser??!
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My diagram shows typical Mach3 connection to a laser power supply.
If you are not certain of your particular connections you should seek the advice of a laser engineer in your area.
Tweakie.
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My diagram shows typical Mach3 connection to a laser power supply.
If you are not certain of your particular connections you should seek the advice of a laser engineer in your area.
Tweakie.
my laser power supply is different from the diagram that you have sent me. my power supply consists of 6 pins that i should connect them to wires , one is 5V,TH,TL,WP,G,IN . at the moment i have connected pins IN and G to output inverter spindle .
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That is correct pins IN and G will control laser power related to the duty cycle of the PWM signal.
Pins TL and G are the pins that would be used to switch the laser on / off (at the power level set by the PWM once M3 has been called) using the Digital Trigger from Mach3.
Tweakie.
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That is correct pins IN and G will control laser power related to the duty cycle of the PWM signal.
Pins TL and G are the pins that would be used to switch the laser on / off (at the power level set by the PWM once M3 has been called) using the Digital Trigger from Mach3.
Tweakie.
which pin should be allocated to Digital Trig ?
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which pin should be allocated to Digital Trig ?
Any spare output pin that you have unused.
I use port 1, pin 16 (enabled and set active low).
Tweakie.
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Thanks a lot. Do you have the download link for plugin impact/engraving TOMTOM or the newest version of this??
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You need to contact Kazuki Tomura for his plugin.
Tweakie.
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Hi guys , just came to show jewels (pingents) being made by impact plcin, this time I reduced the speed...just 5000 mm/minute!
These are my son, and my wife!
https://youtu.be/qFBbIUDsGWM (https://youtu.be/qFBbIUDsGWM)
Nice work, Jan. Just 5000mm/min?! You gotta' be kidding! I can't get my self-made solenoid move faster than 30 times/sec (30HZ).
I still was not able to contact the plugin creator or find this plugin elsewhere.
Dan
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Watch how my solenoid was made.I guess the mechanical design is a must.In some works I can go up to 10.000, but in others at 10000 it will leave traces between two dots.
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I succeeded to engrave! :) when the machine is engraving, the power supply makes a sound, something like cheep cheep! Is it ok if it makes this sound? Shall I be worried? ???
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Watch how my solenoid was made.I guess the mechanical design is a must.In some works I can go up to 10.000, but in others at 10000 it will leave traces between two dots.
I absolutely agree with you about this. In the video it there is no enough information to understand how the solenoid was made. Also what did you use for the coil?
Dan
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how should I control the power of laser power supply while engraving??
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Watch how my solenoid was made.I guess the mechanical design is a must.In some works I can go up to 10.000, but in others at 10000 it will leave traces between two dots.
I absolutely agree with you about this. In the video it there is no enough information to understand how the solenoid was made. Also what did you use for the coil?
Dan
Neodimium magnets
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And how do you utilize them in your solenoid?
Dan
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They make the work oferece the sping
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And how are they better than a spring?
Dan
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how should I control the power of laser power supply while engraving??
In your case you have to stop the engraving, change the PWM (spindle speed), then start engraving again.
This is one of the reasons I have a manual control of laser power (as shown in my earlier diagram) - I can change laser power mid session.
Tweakie.
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Hi . I talk to Tomura for His plugin(TomTom) and Hi send it to me.
I want to ask You: I have to make some special settings if I want to use for impact engraving?
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how should I control the power of laser power supply while engraving??
In your case you have to stop the engraving, change the PWM (spindle speed), then start engraving again.
This is one of the reasons I have a manual control of laser power (as shown in my earlier diagram) - I can change laser power mid session.
Tweakie.
I have connected my board as you see in the following diagram to the laser power supply and I have allocated Digit Trig of Mach 3 to pin 16 and port 1, but when it is engraving with this plugin the laser power is such a low that the engraved picture is unclear and i cannot set the laser power to solve this problem. when I measured voltage of wires which are connected to input power supply of TL and G while engraving, it's maximum is 0.30 or less. please kindly check the diagram to see whether connections are true or not??!
(http://uupload.ir/files/jotd_untitled_thumb.jpg) (http://uupload.ir/view/jotd_untitled.jpg)
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You appear to have connected the laser power supply correctly.
Refer to my pdf document for setting up Mach3 for optimum results http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,16446.msg236132.html#msg236132
Tweakie.
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You appear to have connected the laser power supply correctly.
Refer to my pdf document for setting up Mach3 for optimum results http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,16446.msg236132.html#msg236132
Tweakie.
Sorry. I read your document ,but I didn't understand!! Could you please send me your setting pictures of Match 3 ??
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Could you please send me your setting pictures of Match 3 ??
Sorry but that is not possible at the moment.
Tweakie.
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And how are they better than a spring?
Dan
Instead of a Spring pushing the Lever, you have 4 Magnets Two in the Lever and two more in the base each oposing another letting the lever float , when you give the impact it resists and send it Back up , when the other magnet stops it and so on
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link=topic=16446.msg236211#msg236211 date=1485587511]
Hi . I talk to Tomura for His plugin(TomTom) and Hi send it to me.
I want to ask You: I have to make some special settings if I want to use for impact engraving?
[/quote]No.Not special but adjust stepover according to size.I use 0,20 for big works.and 0,05 for pendants.
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And how are they better than a spring?
Dan
Instead of a Spring pushing the Lever, you have 4 Magnets Two in the Lever and two more in the base each oposing another letting the lever float , when you give the impact it resists and send it Back up , when the other magnet stops it and so on
Hi Jan,
Thanks for explaining. In your video I can see a spring there as well - what is its purpose?
Dan
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Hi . I talk to Tomura for His plugin(TomTom) and Hi send it to me.
I want to ask You: I have to make some special settings if I want to use for impact engraving?
Can you share his email please? How can I ask him to use his plugin as well?
Dan
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And how are they better than a spring?
Dan
Instead of a Spring pushing the Lever, you have 4 Magnets Two in the Lever and two more in the base each oposing another letting the lever float , when you give the impact it resists and send it Back up , when the other magnet stops it and so on
Hi Jan,
Thanks for explaining. In your video I can see a spring there as well - what is its purpose?
Dan
in my machine before i start a work the lever goes down.I guess its because i have set the output as high ,so whem the axis start it could scratch the workpiece.Só i use the Spring to reinforce ig up.In the new head i took it off
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Hi . I talk to Tomura for His plugin(TomTom) and Hi send it to me.
I want to ask You: I have to make some special settings if I want to use for impact engraving?
Can you share his email please? How can I ask him to use his plugin as well?
Dan
send me your email
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any body is here to be send plugin TOMTOM Tomura Kazuki for me?!! :'( :(
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Will talk to him and ask if he allows
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Will talk to him and ask if he allows
i sent for him Massage but he dont answer me yet.
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Hi Jan,
Do you have a photo of your impact head, or a drawing showing the construction? Could you share if so please?
May be I still don't fully understand your construction as I don't see why using magnets would be preferable over a spring?
Dan
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The reaction time of the magnets should be much higher than a mechanical spring. Plus they never wear out of change stiffness as the temperature changes within reason.
Mike
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Dan, just take a look at a tatoo drawer, it´s exactly where i took my idea, and afterwards I took of the spring and used magnets. there is a coil(electric) on one end, and is sided by two powerfull neodimium magnets, this gives the movement, in the oher side , before the diamond tip i had a spring, now i have 4 smaller neodimium magnets, that always repels themselves.I pluged the coil in a stepper driver , shutting both a+ and B+ in one side and both a- and b- in the other wire , i shuted (jumped) both dir and step inputs on the s' or digital trigger from the board to the step driver , this will be the same as a laser ttl+ and ttl-.
In the compiling make the signal be more than 90 ms , or you won´t have impact, but a noise.
Hi, it will depend of what kind of hardware you are using, the best I could achieve was using a l298 and a dc-dc step down.
The thing is that the digital trigger from Mach3 must be conected together in step and dir of the l298.
don´t worry about english, I'm from Brasil and my english is terrible!
I am now triyng to find a different approach , instead of just using digital trigger, i am tryng to combine it with the pwm signal using the attached software to generate the g-code,
Give it a try , you can choose between S or Z generation , one will be used on digital trigger the other can be used to engrave slowly and with z .
The soft is in brazillian portuguese
See this scheme , maybe will help you.
Yes...it is paint ,lol.
Hi, great work, I am very interested at this application, I have read all the messages but I am not sure if the connections are right for mach3, but i have not any idea how to connect the wires if I want to use Arduino Uno R.3. Other thing that I don't find are the number of stepps for mm. that I must write in the configuration in mach3 and for Arduino Uno. I use on my cnc a board 4 axis all in one based on L298 with a voltage of 45 VDC (https://shop.strato.de/epages/61125483.sf/de_DE/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61125483/Products/%22SM44PCV5.2/RK2%22) but if I want use this application I must detach the fourth axe and to use an external bridge for the coil (max 24 Vdc) or I may use the two bridges based on TB6560 that I have made for another little cnc to use Arduino Uno.
Other thing that I don't understand is how to build all the system for the impact because it isn't clear how to install the magnets and especially the coil. I hope that you help me.
I enclose a photo with the connections to know if they are right for mach3.
Claudio.
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Another thing that I would know it is how to set the driver L298 and TB6560 in full step, half or other.
Claudio.
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Cláudio..mach3 will work with arduino through modbus.
Tis a little more complicated.Go with paralel port if you are not a sénior user.
Plus the concept of magnets is not so easy arranged Like that.the 298 should work bit you need a dc-DC step down. Send me a e-mail tonight i will be answering them
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Hi . Can help me anybody with a new and working engraving.dll?
Thank you!
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Hi there,
I've got a question. Whenever I start engraving, the machine engraves it in italic shape not straight! Does anyone know what's the problem with?
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Hi . Can help me anybody with a new and working engraving.dll ?For Mach3.
Thank you!
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Hi . Can help me anybody with a new and working engraving.dll ?For Mach3.
Thank you!
Hi u can use TOMTOM plugin for mach3
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I dont want to use TOMTOM.I need a normal plugin,but recent one!
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After having seen the video of Jan Mozol and all that he has written and also this other video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEB-hN3Fnek I believe that a departure point for the mechanics with the magnets might be that represented in 2 enclosed drawings.
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Does anyone have any idea how Roland make their impact heads?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvXmtWM5ZCM
They work extremely fast and from the specs it appears the plunger moves at about 700Hz (353 dpi resolution at 2in/min engraving speed):
https://www.rolanddga.com/products/engraving-machines/mpx-95-impact-printer/specifications
Do they utilize a very small solenoid and a very small stroke and low power? I would like to try and build a head that would be that fast.
There are also these handheld machines, which are much faster:
http://www.eliseservices.co.uk/p/apollo-13w-7200-stroke-per-minute-electric-engraver-5-piece-mixed-accessory-kit-including-letter-number-shape-template-stencils/
Dan
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what is this secrecy?why can't somebody put here the picture of magnetic impact head? is a secret? we want to do this impact head but we need some help.for me is a hobby the CNC is ready but I need some draw with this head.
Help,help.!!!
Thank you!
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Hi there,
I've got a question. Whenever I start engraving, the machine engraves it in italic shape not straight! Does anyone know what's the problem with? :-[ :-[ ??? ??? :(
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Replaced the simple transistor-based circuit with a stepper driver to drive the solenoid, and now I can get much higher frequencies. Now 50Hz is not a problem and even can be pushed up to 80Hz.
Facing 2 problems:
1. The solenoid is connected to only one phase of the driver, so I am getting only HALF the frequency (the driver is set to FULL step). If 200 pulses are sent, the solenoid only does 100 strokes.
2. The plunger idle state position is random. After a pulse train the plunger sometimes stops inside the coil, while sometimes outside. This is a big problem, since it ruins the work when the plunger sticks outside while idle and being dragged on the work.
I think the 2 problem are related.
How did you overcome these issues? Did you have them at all?
Thanks,
Dan
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Hi Dan13 , the solution is simple: you can use 2 coils in paralel conection (I mean in magnetic way, not electric) and conect the two outputs one to each driver output .I've done this way using two solenoid coils and three magnets ,
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Since I use the pwm in digital trigger, i just add a 0 pwm comand at the end of the g-code
like this:
S0
X0Y0
If you are interested i can send my gcode generator , by the way, I can send to everyone- here: ( it is in portuguese )
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6ms-_b-INkOZEVRMXFyWXlWT0k/view?usp=drive_web (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6ms-_b-INkOZEVRMXFyWXlWT0k/view?usp=drive_web)
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Just find fotoengraving.exe in the uncompressed files and click on it.
See that you have two options to use the trigger, one using 'z' as signal and the other using pwm (0-1000) -this is my prefered because you can obtain grayscale altering the speed of x axis and it will change the frequency ( this depends on wich control board you are using)
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what is this secrecy?why can't somebody put here the picture of magnetic impact head? is a secret? we want to do this impact head but we need some help.for me is a hobby the CNC is ready but I need some draw with this head.
Help,help.!!!
Thank you!
Well this is where the fun is! Just a hint...I don't use my solenoids as the drawing above , I use them on a vertical way between neodimiuns!
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After having seen the video of Jan Mozol and all that he has written and also this other video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEB-hN3Fnek I believe that a departure point for the mechanics with the magnets might be that represented in 2 enclosed drawings.
Almost there Captain ! the solenoids should be mobile and the neodimium fixed!
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Hi Jan,
Thanks for the details and sharing the program. So you have two coils connected each to one phase of the driver, and one coil pulls while the other pushes the plunger. So in this connection each pulse signal into the driver corresponds to one stroke of the plunger? First pulse - pull, second pulse - push, third pulse - pull, right?
But if you stop the pulses you don't know which state did it end in?
Also I tried your program, but didn't understand the Gcode it outputs. Only has "S0" at the beginning and "S0" at the end. In between only XY moves. So what driver the coils?
Thanks,
Dan
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Hi Jan,
Thanks for the details and sharing the program. So you have two coils connected each to one phase of the driver, and one coil pulls while the other pushes the plunger. So in this connection each pulse signal into the driver corresponds to one stroke of the plunger? First pulse - pull, second pulse - push, third pulse - pull, right?
But if you stop the pulses you don't know which state did it end in?
Also I tried your program, but didn't understand the Gcode it outputs. Only has "S0" at the beginning and "S0" at the end. In between only XY moves. So what driver the coils?
Thanks,
Dan
S0 means no impact and s1000 means full impact , between these two the soft gives values that goes from light gray to dark gray and black (s1000).
So if you want the soft to stay with the diamond needle up in the end of the job, just add a s0 in the end of gcode in the window .
"Thanks for the details and sharing the program. So you have two coils connected each to one phase of the driver, and one coil pulls while the other pushes the plunger. So in this connection each pulse signal into the driver corresponds to one stroke of the plunger? First pulse - pull, second pulse - push, third pulse - pull, right?"
No, almost that, the two pulses are alligned with the magnetism in the master neodymiun , so that it goes just down as much as the pwm adjusted , the coil and oposite neodymium in the point of the lever do the up effect , after each impact , no matter if it is S200 , S500 or S1000 , after each of them you will have a S0 so the driver is cut off ,
What drives the coil is the driver, but what comands the driver is a pwm signal , in themajority of control boards you will only be able to use it as Dithering , not grayscaling, because the majority of breakout boards will only reconize the pulses as 0vcc - (s0) or -5 vcc (s1000) , my board reconizes a scale from 0vcc to -5vcc as frequency 0v-no frequency, -1v more frequency until -5vcc ( 300 hz) .
But even if you use a commom board yo will have excellent results ! just play with feedrate.
Save your pics on dithering and you will have just up and down without grayscalling.
I'm preparing a soft in english , so that it will be easier to understand .
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Here:
This will put a comand in the end of your code
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Hi Jan,
Don't quite understand. Let me ask you another question: Do you have your plunger moving at a varying frequency which is dictated by the "Sxx" command? If so what is the board you're using to convert the PWM into frequency? What is the frequency range of your solenoid?
What I did is, I used an Arduino and wrote a program which reads the Z pulses and based on the Z position sets the frequency of the solenoid 0-50Hz. The I use the PicEngrave software to output rotary curving Gcode (as if you wanted to curve 3D in wood) and run this code.
I still don't understand how if commanded S0, it keeps the plunger in the upper position? It driver must complete a full cycle in order to return to the upper positoin.
By the way, I tried to output Gcode, but as I said it only had 2 "S" commands - one at the beginning and one at the end.
Dan
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Just an example of my gcode generated by the same program:
(Grado por Fotoengraving Br v0.1)
(@jun/09/2017 11:12:40)
M5
(Header)
G0 X0 Y0
(Header end)
G90
G21
F5000
G0X0Y0
G1
M3
X0Y0S0
X0.18S1000
X0Y0.18S0
Y0.36
X0.18Y0.18
X0.36Y0
X0.54S1000
X0.36Y0.18S0
X0.18Y0.36S1000
X0Y0.54S0
Y0.72
X0.18Y0.54
X0.36Y0.36
X0.54Y0.18S1000
X0.72Y0S0
X0.9S1000
X0.72Y0.18S0
X0.54Y0.36S1000
X0.36Y0.54
X0.18Y0.72
X0Y0.9S0
Y1.08
X0.18Y0.9
X0.36Y0.72
X0.54Y0.54
If you have an arduino board, then it is something completely different , you should use the LM298 as driver , a dc-dc down to control impact , and so on ,
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From your code - you only have two states for the PWM - S0 and S1000? It is not continuously adjustable within a range?
The LM298 driver didn't work for me - only was able to get about 15-20Hz max with it. With a higher end driver set to full step I am able to get 80Hz. Don't know what is the reason for that.
Dan
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in this case the image was dithered in black and white , that is the reason, if you choose grayscale on the software you wil have diferent pwms ,
Usualyy the lm298 is used to move two different dc motors by pwm , instead of motors i used coils (solenoids) the way the board oscilattes these pwms by the amount of "S" is the trick.
I can get 300 hz easyly , more than that , the mechanical properties will not work , you will have scratches instead of dots.
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300Hz!!!!!!!???? WOW! So your mechanics using the magnets is MUCH superior to mine using a spring. Still interesting why does the L298 gives me a much lower frequency than the other driver. By the way, a nice feature of the other driver is that I can limit the current and set an idle current.
Why in your design you move the solenoid instead of the magnets? You need then fatigue resistant wire so that it doesn't break. It could be very helpful if you could post a simple sketch of your impact head mechanics. You have described it in this thread previously, but afraid I was picturing it differently than what I am understanding now.
So you have a board converting PWM to frequency?
Dan
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Hoje much does your Lever moves?
Mine About 1,2 to 2 mm.It does not even stress the wire. As Said i control Just the voltage with a dc-dc downloader I can input 48 vcc but let only 5- 12 go to lm298 , and 2A .
The neodymiun will drastic reduce it's eficiency if you get it too hot , so if you put it on aluminium an fixed it gets a natural dissipation, in my recent machines I even put a cooler.
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And when you have a S0 in my board you just have 0 volts, 0 amperes in the coil, the spring and the magnets just pull it up , you dont need iddle , you are using PWM , 0 volts means zero warming, zero iddle .
When you have S1000 you have full voltage in 'x' milliseconds derived from HZ , so you can have up to 5 small impacts in each pixel , so, if I apply 10 vcc in my lm-298 it will cause the coil to impact 5 times the pixel at 10 vcc , this 10 vcc comes from a dc-dc downloader , if i put 5 vcc it will be the maximun , but if I am doing basalt , i will input even 15 vcc.
My best results in granite are with 10 vcc , and 1 karat diamonds , if you look carefully you will see that i dis a screw on the body of the diamond ( 6 mm thread) and I have two nuts in the point of the lever, so I can adjust the height of the diamond refering to the granite , this is very important, a long course will get the job slow , I put it to 1,2 to 2 mm according to material.
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New development...colored impact with alcaline pigment that just gets inside engraving.
I really liked it
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The coloured engraving came out real nice.
The stroke of my plunger is around 0.6-0.8mm
So you have a fixed frequency and you only control the impact force by varying the voltage?
Where did you get your coils from? Or did you wind them yourself? I used a 12V solenoid (around 25 ohm -> 0.5A) which I made a new housing an plunger for where I can mount the tips. The spring force is around 500g.
My main concern when making the new plunger and housing was to minimize the wobble of the plunger inside the sleeve, because I was afraid any wobble could play a significant role in ruining high resolution super fine engravings. So my plunger is not too lose and hence has some minor resistance moving.
Dan
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The slope of the diamond I calculated so that at impact, which I call impact point, it would be at 90 degrees My coils have 40 ohms, and are calculated to 24 vcc with impact force of 1 kgf
My lever is fixed by two bearings, you feel no resistance, it is super free and it does not move sideways.
As for frequency, it is regulated by hue and pwm, I will try to explain:
If you regulate the voltage input on the lm298 in 10 volts, it will give pulses by the tone at the output of the breakboard, and at the same time it will divide the 10 vcc by the voltage input, so it is, it will impact with more power where She finds the color darker and for less where she finds it lighter.
If I increase the input voltage of the lm298 it will continue at the same pitch frequency, but with more force relative to the voltage input.
Although I'd rather do with 0 and 1000, using my 1 bit bitmap images.
I'm preparing 5 impact heads for my machines, and I'm going to sell some.
I'm also adapting to GBRL, and getting excellent results, although the control software is much simpler than Mach3 and less user friendly, I've already compiled a g-code sender in Visual C #.
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Hi Jan,
OK. I think I now see the main mechanical difference between my construction and yours. You have a lever, while I have a plunger. Along the whole way you've been talking about your lever, but somehow I was ignoring it.
So I think if made as a lever supported by ball bearings, a spring could work just as well as magnets.
Thanks,
Dan
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My First design were Spring , but was difficult to adjust and would Warm too much .Magnets do not weaken do not Break.
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Thanks Jan. Will construct a new one and update how it worked out.
Dan
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Hi Jan,
Built a new head with a lever and magnets, but was not able to drive it fast. Only then I did away with the 24VDC commercial solenoid (around 130 ohm) and wound my own solenoid having 2 ohm. With this one I can easily do 50 and 100 HZ. But to get reliable 100HZ at full lever amplitude (around 1mm), I have to use 70% duty cycle.
Anyway, the L298 can't limit the current. I am using a 12 VDC 2A power supply, so in a minute it gets VERY hot! As well as the solenoid. It appears that a fan helps to some extent. Do you also encounter these heat dissipation issues?
Dan
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The last that i did were 48 oh ms.above 14 vcc it gets a little hot
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Oh, that is very small current.
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Dan, I will take a pic of my solenoid, I use two with 48 ohm , they have 30 mm round , with an air core of 10 mm and #32 copper wire. They are a little hard to produce without a winding machine , but with paciente you can do it manually. The solenoids must be between magnets and three rounds of magnets as this magnet-solenoid-magnet-solenoid-magnet so when you input voltage to the solenoid it will repell itself from the magnets.Its more of a electromagnet constrution inverted and not properly a solenoid.It will not have ferrite or mild steel core , the only iron that i have is in the rolls and they are not even near the magnets or the solenoids
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Jan,
Thanks for explaining. My configuration is different. See attached photo. The magnets are between the lever and the base. The lever is suspended and balanced with the magnets at both ends. The electromagnet is stationary and pulls the lever at one end. There is an iron piece on the lever at that end. The setup works fine with the 2ohm coil, has sufficient power and amplitude up to 100Hz.
The problem is the heating. Today wound a new coil (the one on the picture), 14 ohm. but it is less powerful now and so the amplitude drops as it gets to higher frequencies. I think it has to do with the inductance. Modern stepper motors have typical resistance of the coils around 2 ohm, thus keeping the inductance low and allowing for higher speeds. The drivers limit the current so the motors don't heat up to much.
Dan
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Dear Jan, I've been following this thread for a long time to understand how your impact head is built, but I'm still not sure how it will be designed to be effective.
I would be very grateful if you could take a photo ocn head with magnets and coil placement, I think that would greatly facilitate understanding. :)
Best regards Christer
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Did away with the L298 driver and designed a simple switch based on a MOSFET. Due to the extremely low resistance of the transistor it doesn't heat at all. So the heating problem is solved. Getting 100Hz is not a problem and it works very well.
Dan
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Excellent work Dan.
Tweakie.
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He Who wants do ;D
But He that do not Want always has an excuse.
Good work!
Have you used my program?
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Thanks guys.
Jan, no - didn't use your program. I used PicEngrave and the rotary engrave option.
Dan