Machsupport Forum
General CNC Chat => Show"N"Tell ( Your Machines) => Topic started by: fdos on July 31, 2006, 04:28:52 PM
-
Hi all...
Just started to pick up where I left off with the Bigger Hardinge I bought sometime ago.
This machine was really only bought due to it's 16C spindle. I already have another Hardinge with 5C spindle, and got fed up with having to do certain jobs on the centre lathe. I really wanted a 16c CHNC but one wasn't available when the money was burning holes in my pocket. I have kicked my for years for turning down 2 CHNC's about 10 years ago which I could of had for 200 UKP the pair! At the time I didn't have the room.
Machine had some damage to the original Siemens control, but otherwise was fairly good.
Whats really nice about these machines is they were only ever designed to run with neat cutting oil, therefore the ways are generally in very good order. Also they are incredibly rigid.
Here's a couple pics of the machine as it is...
Wayne...
-
NICE LOOKING LATHE!!!!! That is going to be a GREAT lathe!!!!!
-
NICE LOOKING LATHE!!!!! That is going to be a GREAT lathe!!!!!
Well Brian I've always been a sucker for Hardinge's ;-) I first used them (chnc's) in the mid 80's, and there was nothing else that could touch them for accuracy. They really could hold 2 tenths all day as Hardinge claimed.
They were never cheap though! The machine I have cost around 40k UKP in the mid 80's :-o
So far I've taken out all the Seimens control, including the HUGE cabinet on the back. Replaced the 4Kw DC spindle drive and motor with a New Seimens 3Kw AC motor and VFD.
Just picked up the new servo motors, the old ones were in bad shape.
I have a CNC Teknix drive here for evaluatiion which we will try on this project.
All the top enclosure is being removed right now, for bead blasting and a new powder coat job. I learnt a valuable lesson on the repainting of the Leadwell VMC enclosures, that was not to bother wet spray painting, it takes far too long!
Wayne....
-
Just an update.
New Pulleys and Belts arrived for the servo's today. Due to the new motors being faster but having less torque than the originals (3300 v's 2000 rpm and 1Nm v's 1.2Nm) I have changed the original reduction of 1.86:1 to 2.5:1. This is theory gives me more torque and speed than the original setup.
One motor plate has already been re-machined to suit the new motors.
Also shown in the pics is the Pneumatics compartment with the 5 port valves etc. These all have to be replaced, and they all leak, and the seals are no longer available. I hate these things! so confusing... They cost an arm and a leg too!
Wayne...
-
Another Update..
All the new pulley blanks now machined, and almost ready to go.
Well almost !! first problem was the X axis belt housing. I didn't measure it up before ordering the pulleys, only the Z axis. There was zero clearance between the top of this housing and the belt when on the 60T pulley. So I had to remachine the internal relief to give me the clearance. Wall thickness at the thinest point is now only 1mm! But it's a heave cast iron housing so not so bad.
Second problem is the new servo motors spindles are shorter than the originals. Therefore the 24T pulley is closer to the motors mounting flange. With the original mounting plates the puleys no-where near line up! So it was a waste if time remachining the plate earlier, have to make new ones. These were steel originally, I'll probably use Al-Alloy for the new ones. Sod the different rates of expansion, I'm not trying to achieve Hardinges original specs, which is the only reason I can think of they used similar materials.
Third problem is I got the quote back for all the new 5 port valves and manifolds etc. £550 OUCH! and that was for the cheaper SMC stuff, I'd hate to think what Parker or Norgren stuff would cost... This machines a bit of a money pit....
Wayne....
-
Nice looking project. I will be keeping an eye on this one.
Keep up the good work.
-
Thanks Benny.
Shame there apparently so few people interested in retrofitting lathes.
Lathes and turning are my primary business, the mills come 2nd.
Wait till you see the two slantbed boxford benchtop lathes I'm in the planning stages for! The are being retrofitted as bespoke machines to do one job primarily. The quantities are large 30,000 parts/yr. The intention is to run the two machines back to back on the same job, lights out if possible. This job is more suited to sliding head swiss auto's but I'm going to have a good go at competing against their times ;)
The aim is to have these fully automated, with magazine bar feeders, power collet closers, powered tailstocks, and parts catchers. Also I'm trying to think of a way to do a swarf auger for these small machines. The material for this job is Nylon66 so swarf is a real issue.
Wayne...
-
Picture time again...
First Picture shows the X axis Slideway and ballscrew. I was amazed at the perfect condition here! No backlash at all, and the slide looks like it was ground yesterday! In fact the machine is 22 years old this year. That cutting oil did the machines metal some good. The ballscrew is 1.250" Diameter with .200" Lead.
Second picture shows the new pulleys and belt on the X Axis. This is the housing I had to remachine to give clearance for the belt at it's highest point. Also shows the new Alloy Motor mounting plate, which I machined today. The Z axis one will have to wait, as I didn't have a big enough piece of material available. It needs a billet of Alloy 6"x6"x 1 1/4"..
Wayne...
-
Wayne
what does the air drive? is it the toolpost or tailstock or both?
Hood
-
Hood.
The air does quite a lot.
Tailstock extend and retract, Collet Open and Close, Spindle lock release, Lube pump inject, and the most complex part the turret locking and indexing.
The only one I wont use very often is the tailstock.
Wayne....
-
Sounds like you will have a fair bit of work ahead of you. My lathe uses Hydraulics for all of that but I think the actual mechanism of the two toolposts may be racks of some sort. Hope to get a better idea this weekend.
Hood
-
Well the Hardinge had options of vertical partoff slide and Parts catcher. Both not fitted to this machine, but I will add a parts catcher.
The partoff slide was hydraulic but driven by an air motor powered pump.
I'd expect your machine has hydraulic chuck, and maybe turret locking. Usually the racks are air driven. You will soon tell if you find any 5 port valves on the machine. Just hope they don't all leak like mine did! They are expensive....
Wayne...
-
Wayne
No air at all to this machine, just hydraulics.
Hood
-
Well you know what I said about the cutting oil preserving the machine ;) Well thats true regarding the iron, but not so good for the cables!
The pic below is the turret encoder, as you can see the once flexible cable (BICC Brand Rex so not cheap stuff) can now defy gravity HEHE....
Needless st say I can't leave it like that, so all the affected cables will be replaced, as I can't afford them cracking up later when the machine is back together.
Also for those interested I found an old vid I did of the turret and tailstock working. This was the day I spent working out the logic of the turret sequencing. You can also hear the air leaking from all the 5 port valves. and the compressor comes on part way though for a top up!.
Link is here http://homepage.ntlworld.com/fdosdesign/temp/hxl_turret2.mpg
The turret should NOT do the little clockwise rotation on the way back down, thats now fixed. The Air cushion that the turret indexes against needed adjusting.
Wayne....
-
Wayne
got any more of these encoders, I think you could make a fortune by selling them as modern art ;)
Indexing looks good, I got a bit of a fright when the tailstock shot out, for a second I thought I was going to hear a crash :)
Hood
-
LOL.... Well I'm just glad the encoder works. They cost a fortune from hardinge. I tested it last night, and one of 4 hall sensors outputs goes low for each station.
Today I very carefully used a die grinder and carbide burr to dig out the epoxy potting from around the cable entry, the old cable is now gone and I have enough of the tails to solder a new one to. Then I can repot that section.
Wayne...
-
Got the CNC Teknix TEK10 drive quickly setup a little while ago.
Test Power supply @ 45V not quite enough to give me full speed or full current probably.
Setup with divide by 8 to give me reasonable speed with this high count encoder (2500count or 10,000 per turn of ballscrew).
Tuning no where near where it needs to be, but effective. I'll need to make a lead to connect to the scope.
But so far so good!
Quick video you can downloaded from here. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/fdosdesign/temp/tek10_test.wmv
-
Looking good Wayne :)
-
It's a good start.
Got to order a big 45v transformer to give me close to the 65v the motors are rated to, then we can really see what happens!
Tuning the drives will improve things too, I was never able to run the old motors with these encoders at anything above 25v on Gecko 340's. But the old motors were pretty weird and shagged out.. I've just been tweaking the PID terms and got it to be quite snappy, but think the current on the psu is not anywhere near enough. 35v 150VA. which is 4.28A only 280mA above the continous rating of these motors! I have a 1kvA transformer in the stores somewhere, I may try that tomorrow.
Wayne...
-
Got the billet for the Z Axis motor mounting plate yesterday so spent part of today machining the replacement with a larger offset to get the pulleys alligned correctly.
You can see I have stuck with the original design mainly, except the recess for the motor is now round to suit the new motors. I shall also be getting a sheetmetal working friend to make me up some splash guards to protect the motors from the flood of cutting oil in the machine. These will bolt to these plates.
Hopefully tomorrow I can try the Z axis with the Teknix drive, and see how well it performs with room to accelerate over that longer distance;)
-
Well Santa came early with the new 5port valves for the hardinge.
The only trouble is the old git also gave me a bill for 550 UKP (about $900 US) So much for being good!
These SMC valves are cute though, much nicer made than the Mead stuff already in the machine. At least the new ones are mainly all alloy not Glass filled Nylon like the Mead ones.
-
Have you made any progress with the lathe?
I still dont have mine but I should be getting it around the middle of next month as that is the date I have for moving into the new unit.
Hood
-
Hood, Only what you see above, plus I've been getting ready to fit the new 5 port valves. Although they cost me a fair bit, I'm pleased I shouldn't have to worry about them leaking for a long time!
A lot of the nylon tubing in the valve cabinet is being changed for new Polyurethane stuff, more flexible, and easier to route.
Turret encoder has a new cable attatched and will go back on next week.
Z axis motor now fitted to the machine on it's new mount, and the pulleys line up perfectly now.
Jobs still to do are many! But fortunately not so much more money! In actual fact when finished about 90% of the electronics etc will be all brand new. Only things still original will be the Iron and a fair bit of the Pneumatic tubing. Even the windows will be new!
Wayne....
-
Wayne, you do a great job with the machines that you have done! I wish I had the time to do that! looks like great fun...
-
Thanks Brian... I tend to go over the top sometimes, but that comes with being a fussy bugger!
It's just I have to rely on these machines to earn a living, and taking shortcuts only come bite your ass later..
Wayne...
-
How are the Teknix drives working out for you ?
I am going to have to go Rutex as my motors need more than the Teknix or Geckos can deliver :(
Hood
-
Re the teknix drives.
So far so good, although this week I've been too busy doing paying work to get anymore time on the Hardinge. Always the same at end of month:(
Next test is to try the drive on the Z axis, and see how fast it really can go!
Call me cynical but I often wonder if the Rutex drive is really capable of delivering the current they claim. There does seem to be a fair few people who have blown them up when reaching machine limits.
Wayne...
-
Thanks for the info, I am wondering if I should just go with the Teknix. The guy who knows about these motors recommends that I go for 130V and 40 Amps but if Rutex are possibly overstating their capabilities it might be better to just settle for a bit less torque and speed. I think with the 25Amps that the Teknix drives can deliver I will have a torque of around 16Nm, not sure if this will be enough or not.
Hood
-
Hi Gents :)
Just popping in to say "Bravo!" to fdos for his brilliant work on the HXL!
Also extending a warm hello to Hood! LTNS! Don't see you on the PM board much these days.
fdos, I have an HXL, too, a 1983 model. I stumbled onto this thread via a google search. I've been a member here for a while, but never posted much. I think that may change :) I looked into Mach a while back to retrofit an older mill but managed to get it working so I slacked off. I'm thinking that Mach would be an excellent choice for retro fit on my old Hardinge. Hood was instrumental in educating me about geckos and rutex and stuff.
Hood, my visit to the UK is looking good for the first two weeks of May. Would love to swing up there to see you if you're up for it.
Good luck with the HXL fdos! Got any updated pictures?
Mark
-
Hi Mark, yes no problem, might even be finished my lathe retro by then :)
Hood
-
Thanks for the comments. Not much to update this thread about, but I hope to change that in the next few weeks.
It's just my other retrofit (see the Leadwell thread) has been busy in production and I have had no spare time at all to get back onto the Hardinge.
Your's is a HXL? So the Mark Centry control version? the -S in HXL-S was the Siemens control version, slightly update with larger enclosures etc.
I really wanted a 16C CHNC but ended up with this!
I have another Hardinge too, a 5C HCT which was retrofitted from NEW in 1969 with a plugboard control. I retrofitted it again about 7 years ago with Ahha software.
Wayne....
-
Mark,
If you get to go in May, let me know.
Brett
-
I hope it's ok to post web sites here. I have a home shop at www.SternbachMachine.com
If not, my apologies to the moderator, and please strike it dead if you so choose.
I just added a LeBlond Makino mill with 4th axis to the shop but haven't gotten pics of it on the site yet.
I am definitely visiting London and surrounding areas. My friends (who were born there), who invited my wife and I were here tonight and we were going over a map. We'll be staying in Dorking, but they have a relative up near the border (forget the name of the town) and I am urging them strongly that we need to see Scotland :) Will be there for two weeks, just need to cement dates and airfares.
Wayne, yep definitely an HXL, GE 1050 POS with the typical tool turret problems. Intersting about the HXL-S. I didn't know that. I had used an HXL with the CRT display (16C, absolute pristine condition) back when I worked for IBM and I was kind of blinded by love when I bought this machine sight unseen. The iron is in excellent condition, electronics not so, and my electronic skills are lacking, but I'm learning. I have to, I can't afford to have someone fix it LOL
BTW, Happy New Year to y'all :)
Mark
-
Amen Brett.
Wayne, yep definitely an HXL, GE 1050 POS with the typical tool turret problems. Intersting about the HXL-S. I didn't know that. I had used an HXL with the CRT display (16C, absolute pristine condition) back when I worked for IBM and I was kind of blinded by love when I bought this machine sight unseen. The iron is in excellent condition, electronics not so, and my electronic skills are lacking, but I'm learning. I have to, I can't afford to have someone fix it LOL
My HXL-S was actually built in the UK so maybe thats why they are so different. My old 5C machine was also UK built in the original Feltham factory before Hardinge UK moved to the west country where the HXL-S was made.
What problems you had with the turret? Not indexing properly?
These turrets are very fussy about setup, and as the seals wear they often need adjustment especially the Air Cushion. It's one of the reasons I had decided to renew all the valves and other gear in the valve drawer. Also the O rings for the crosslide manifold are all new.
If you get around to retrofitting it, I have a fair insight into how it all works and it's sequencing requirements. Does you valve setup look like the ones in the pics earlier?
Wayne....
-
Hey Wayne.
The problems with my turret started when I bought the machine. It didn't work at all, no grunt, no nothing, so I took it apart to investigate. What I found was that the plastic "rack" with the gear teeth on it and magnets at the end was broken in two pieces. Long story about contacting Hardinge and getting screwed out of used one they had, and being told a new one would be $500 and a 17 week wait, I wound up making my own. That's been fine. Then every once in a while, (after I thought I had it all adjusted perfectly because it was working fine) it would miss a 90 degree index (more like 100 degrees and jam up) or sometimes not index far enough. I am familiar with the set up procedure, I just think the entire design is (to say nicely) screwed up. I've checked the o-rings and such, and *think* I have the pawl adjusted properly, though I'm not convinced it's working right because there's very little adjustment. I also get a lot of air escaping from the tiny filter in the cross slide (I think that's normal, but I still hate that lol) My compressor thanks me when I shut the machine down.
Here is a link to some misc pics:
http://www.sternbachmachine.com/misc%20pics.htm
down towrds the bottom are some pics of repairs I've done on the HXL. You can see the valve assembly (sort of) in one of them. I found a bad coil there about 2 years ago (collet closer I believe).
Retro fitting it may be a little beyond my capabilities, but I also believe it's the best option.
Mark
-
The valves on yours are different and in a different location, but similar, the flow switch for the tailstock is the same.
Re the turret, are the 4 springs and balls (sprag clutch) still at the base of the turret? They can be easily lost by the unwary ;) I remember when I first took off my turret and didn't realise they were there!
I don't actually have any drawings of the turret assembly (do you?) I think the nylon rack is just there to operate the hall switch.
Did you see the little vid I did of my turret earlier in the thread? Mine alway overshot a little but by less that one tooth on the location device. It's ok now the air cushion is better adjusted.
Wayne...
-
Re the turret, are the 4 springs and balls (sprag clutch) still at the base of the turret? They can be easily lost by the unwary ;) I remember when I first took off my turret and didn't realise they were there!
I don't actually have any drawings of the turret assembly (do you?) I think the nylon rack is just there to operate the hall switch.
Did you see the little vid I did of my turret earlier in the thread? Mine alway overshot a little but by less that one tooth on the location device. It's ok now the air cushion is better adjusted.
Wayne...
Yep, all the parts and pieces were there when I took it apart and are back in. I don't have drawings per se, but I do have the maintenance manual. And you are correct, the nylon rack is for the magnets to activate hall switches. What a job it was reverse engineering it. If you ever need one, I drew it up and saved it.
I missed the video of yours but am trying to find it now.
Mark
-
Wayne,
Finally got a look at your video. It's a "thing of beauty and a joy forever" when things work properly.
If I may ask, where would I start, to learn about retro fitting mine? I am convinced that Mach is the way to go software-wise, but the hardware is confusing.
Mark
-
Mark, Nice set up!
FWIW your SB 9" is a model C. Model A has the Quickchange and power crossfeed.
-
Thank you for your kind words Macona!
And for the correction! All these years.... and I thought it was an "A". Color me embarrassed LOL (and always willing to learn!)
Mark
-
Here is a link to some misc pics:
http://www.sternbachmachine.com/misc%20pics.htm
Mark
Hi Mark,
Is that a 48 chev fleetmaster? ..was my first car....after spending a summer fixing it up. Does yours have the latched bumber guard that lowers so the trunk door can swing up?
I don't want to get TOO OT here, but that car was fun! in the early slippery winter a student driver misjudged the conditions and lightly bumped me from the rear. the "latch bumber" dropped down and appeared to be damaged. Well the student driver was so shookup (not to mention an apologetic father) for a while as we all stood there near the intersection under a light snow. I just had to let them hang for a moment or two.....That is, Until I said (as I lifted the hinged bumper post back into position) " oh I think it'll be alright,.. I'll forget the whole thing"! Those were the days!
John (bloy)
-
Hey John!
Good eye my friend! And great story!
Indeed, she is a 48 FleetMaster. My grandfather bought her new. Funny story (not wanting to go off topic either) My wife and I were at a show in Rhinebeck, NY quite a few years ago. We sat beside the car watching these two elderly gentlemen from a distance, poking each other in the chest, pointing at the car, hands thrown in the air, lots of mouthing. Finally they stormed over and asked "Is this a 48 or a 49??". I said it's a 48. One guy says to other "See??" and he points to the grill and says "you're missing the chrome tee there!!" I laughed and explained: I had removed it because it was rusted so bad and detracted from the looks of the surrounding (perfect condition) stainless steel trim. That's what I enjoyed most about the show circuit, talking to the "old guys" (of which I'm a member now at 49 lol) Everybody had one and has more than one story about it. I grew tired of showing because people don't want to see an original car anymore, they want to see a $10K paint job and a $15K interior restoration. This thing is all original with only it's 2nd set of tires (original spare in trunk) (excuding brakes and tune up parts). btw, 69K original miles. The 68 Camaro in the pics I've had since High School (30 years). Was orignally a 327. Blew that up and wanted to build "something different" and big blocks were a dime a dozen back then. It's a 396/375 HP. Oh, and btw, again, my rear bumper guard is not hinged and rubs (slightly!) on the trunk lid when opening/closing.
Thanks for the opportunity to brag a little :)
Mark
-
Finally got a look at your video. It's a "thing of beauty and a joy forever" when things work properly.
If I may ask, where would I start, to learn about retro fitting mine? I am convinced that Mach is the way to go software-wise, but the hardware is confusing.
Mark.
Well that video was me manually operating the turret with the valves. I never powered the machine with the original control, as It had been physically damaged before I got the machine.
The sequence the valves are operated in is critical for a correct index.
Retrofiiting is not really very difficult, and there's lots of help available in the Mach Scene. I'm fairly lucky in that I have been retrofitting machines from a time long before Art started Mach etc.
It does help to run the machine on the original control, which in your case is easy. I've had to do a few totally blind with no data or anything, and they were certainly a headache to say the least.
Retrofitting with something like mach actually usually makes the machine much simpler than the original machine. As an example on the Hardinge I was able to completely remove the Wardrobe sized cabinet with double doors which housed the original electronics. Now I have a tiny enclosure. It helps that the newer drives etc are a lot smaller.
It need not cost too much either. I don't do things by halves as a rule, and have less than $3000 investedin the Leadwell VMC, it's already paid that back a few times. The Hardinge has cost more than I'd have wished, mainly due to it needing new servo motors and belt/pullies, I also chose to change the DC spindle drive for a new Siemens AC motor and Drive. But I'd reckon it will be paid back within the 1st month or so of use.
I know it's a scary thought, but you can do it with some common sense and good advice.
Wayne.....
-
Argh Cars!
I'm more interested in the Willy's LOL
I've got a 1952 Austin Champ ever seen one Mark? Very complex military vehicle. You can see it here
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/fdosdesign/champ.htm
Wayne....
-
LOL Bravo Wayne!
Love the hood ornament on the Champ! Excellent documentation on the restoration, too. Great reading. I brought a '63 Chevy P/U back from the dead much like that. The Willy's, my late Dad bought about 15 years ago for $200 (and was actually built by Ford). I found it in a friend's apple orchard with trees growing out of it. He restored it to full military. I dirve it occaisionally to keep what happened to your Champ from happening to it.
I'm going to start my own thread regarding my HXL retro fit as I am going too far off topic on everybody else's threads :)
Mark
-
LOL Bravo Wayne!
Love the hood ornament on the Champ! Excellent documentation on the restoration, too. Great reading. I brought a '63 Chevy P/U back from the dead much like that. The Willy's, my late Dad bought about 15 years ago for $200 (and was actually built by Ford). I found it in a friend's apple orchard with trees growing out of it. He restored it to full military. I dirve it occaisionally to keep what happened to your Champ from happening to it.
LOL she's now a not so slim 40 something who's just emigrated to Austrailia.
I have not progressed that much as the log stopped when my Daughter was born. I'll get back to it oneday. These things are neat but very thirsty(8mpg or so) But the Rolls Royce engine is fantastic. Oneday I want to try the 5 gears available in REVERSE!
Wayne...
-
Got some goodies in this week to enable me to carry on with these projects
A couple of I-PAC4 keyboard encoders for softkeys etc on both machines.
Some of those Silicone Keyboards which I hope to make rigid with a machined bezel.
Finally these Beauties.
Cubloc microcontrollers. first pic is the sudy board which I will use to test out the modbus connection and my macro's.
The other item is the CUSB-36R which is a pcb based DIN rail mounting PLC with loads of I/O (48 pins in total) including DAC's ADC relay outputs, 5-24v Opto isolated inputs, etc etc, all for $164
Wayne....
-
Looks interesting Wayne, be sure to let us know how you get on with them. Price certainly sounds good.
Hood
-
Well so far so good, just been playing with writing to the 4x20 display with the cubloc.
It's quite a powerful little device. the basic is fast and has loads of features. The beauty of it is the basic and ladder can run concurrently and share data between them.
Wayne....
-
The parts look good Wayne,
I'm interested in seeing how this goes as well. Keep up the good work.
Brett
-
I got me a cubloc also with the same proto board, thing is sweet!
Wayne, will you want to share some of the code that you used for the LCD?
-
The LCD is simple to write to.
It's just PRINT statements after a LOCATE x,y to put the text where you want it.
My application will take a fair amount of time to write completely, as I will be using a combination of Ladder, Basic and using Modbus for comms. As well as a custom macropump for mach.
I'll let you all know how it goes.
Did you get yourself a Cubloc PLC as well or are you just starting out with the studyboard ? I got both as I will develop the code with the studyboard before committing it to the CUSB PLC.
Really with these things you should be able to do just about anything. The I2C will allow you to add io for just about anything over what the cubloc already gives you. The BASIC allows you to do more complex stuff that would be very difficult in Ladder.
Wayne....
-
Dennis here's a bit of Cubloc basic I have knocked up to give me some idea of status on the Cubloc LCD while I an playing with it and Mach.
It will get more complicated but at the moment I can turn spindleand coolant on & off and alter Overrides no problem
EXCEPT I can't find the bleeding DRO code for the spindle override!! Have these been documeted anywhere?
Wayne
Const Device = CB280
Set Display 2,0,1,50
Cls
Wait 200
Dim coolant As Byte
Dim spincw As Integer
Dim sro As Integer
Dim fro As Integer
Opencom 1,115200,3,80,80
Set Modbus 1,1,20
Usepin 1,Out 'Coolanr
Usepin 2,Out 'Spindle CW
Usepin 3,Out
Input 24
Input 25
Set Ladder On
Do
coolant = _P(1)
spincw = _p(2)
_D(10) = Adin(0) 'Read ADC0 Feedrate overide
fro =_D(10)/10.21
_D(11) = Adin(1)
sro =_D(11)/10.21
Locate 0,0
Print "Coolant ",status(coolant)
Locate 0,1
Print "Spindle ",status(spincw)
Locate 0,2
Print "FRO Pot ",Dp(fro,3),"% fsd"
Locate 0,3
Print "SRO Pot ",Dp(sro,3),"% fsd"
Csroff
Loop
Function status(raw As Byte)As String
If raw = 1 Then
status = "ON "
Else
status = "OFF"
Endif
End Function
-
Thanks for the code!!! I'll mess around with it. What about this DRO: ( Overriden spindle speed DRO-------202)
Found it on the Wiki: http://www.artsoftcontrols.com/MachCustomizeWiki/index.php?title=OEM_DROs
-
Dennis
The code is just test code as I get familiar with the Cubloc. I will use some of it, as I will be using the LCD on the machine to verify that the PLC matches Mach etc. I may create a button on the Cubloc to toggle through pages of info on the LCD.
Nope OemDRO202 is Overridden spindle speed not the Override as a percentage like on FRO.
It's got to be there somewhere, but where!
Wayne....
UPDATE: Just found it from screen designer. The Spindle overide % is OEMcode 74, so I tried OEmdro 74 and it now works as expected.
-
Just in case anyone finds it useful here's the initial Macropump for the two overrides.
Spindle Speed CAPPING Courtesy of Aaron ;)
I only said I needed to write something to cap the overridden rpm if it exceeded my max safe rpm, and he wrote it for me! What a kind Yorkshireman.
Wayne....
maxrpm = 6200
feedpot = Getinput(64) / 1023
spinpot = (getinput(65) / 1023)
spinover = (spinpot * 125) + 25
curSValue = getoemdro(817)
overRideRpm = (curSValue * spinover) / 100
If (overRideRpm > maxrpm) Then
Spinover = (maxrpm / curSValue) * 100
End If
Call setoemdro(74,spinover)
feedover = (feedpot * 240) + 10
Call setdro(21,feedover)
-
you have helped me out enough in the past Wayne - least i can do is help out with a few lines of code !!! ;D
Aaron
-
This week got most of the upper enclosure grit blasted. Just got to finish DAing the external surfaces and then off for powder coating.
Wayne....
-
you mean you aint get em powddered yet Wayne - its only 10:45 and you have given up :P
-
Well at last I got those damn expensive 5 port valves fitted in, plumbed and wired!
Been a long haul that job!
Hopefully can get the turret and encoder refitted on the w/e, then I can apply air and check it alll works still.
Wayne....
-
Good looking work !
You will be making chips in no time 8)
-
Looks good Wayne, very good.
Brett
-
You will be making chips in no time 8)
Thats the problem Brian, I'm yet again making chips, but on another machine! Damn customers won't leave me in peace!
Didn't get the turret refitted but I did get a chance to fite the new cabinet on the back of the machine. Quite amazing the new one is 600x600x350mm the original had double doors and I swear two grown men coulda stood up in there!
Wayne.....
-
I know the feeling Wayne, just cant get time to work on my lathe but hopefully soon it will be a bit quieter but by that time I will be skint again LOL
Hood
-
Thats the problem Brian, I'm yet again making chips, but on another machine! Damn customers won't leave me in peace!
Wayne.....
Good looking progress! Just be thankful you have customers.
-
Dennis. Yes I'm thankful just wish they were! Most of my customers seem to suffer the same problem. BAD PLANNING!! Seems I forever doing 11th hour work.
It would help if this machine was ruuning though.
It's been a long haul completely. The irony is I bought the machine the same week my daughter was born, she was THREE in April LOL.
Wayne....
-
You are right about the 11th hour, they want it done yesterday!
There is a good example in a book called "How to win Friends and Influence People" on how to get customers to get their planing done on time.
-
Hey Wayne,
How do you like the Cubloc so far?
Brett
-
Wayne,
I may need you to do a bit of testing of threading with an encoder... Tell me when you are going to be about ready and I will start that project (I need a month to get time to start)
-
All
Sorry been just too busy lately, and also just had a few days away down in Cornwall with the family. (Needed that little holiday though!) While I was down there got to meet up with Mark Vaughan and his imfamous Avon CNC Mill! Runs very nice it seems on the new drives and Pixies.
Re Cubloc. So far it's working great and one of the most useful Mach compatible devices out there.
Brian. Sure thing, the Hardinge is back on now, after waiting for one part for months! Contact me offlist if you wish.
BTW did you get hold of one of the Leadshine boards yet?
Wayne....
-
Kick Bump scream...... what about an update
archie =) =) =)
-
"DITTOS"
(also from the Wild Wonderful Hills)
-
Overloard
I sent you a PM
archie =) =) =)
-
Hi all. I'll give you an update shortly. Been a little preoccupied!
Wayne....
-
Been waiting a fair bit on some updates to the smoothstepper for this project. Originally it was going to be g100 based, but as we all know thats just about a dead project.
Spent most of the weekend doing more rewiring in the cabinet of the Hardinge. Main thing to do was the soft start for the Servo power supply. This is done and works a treat, no more nuisance tripping which I occasionally got when powering up the 1000VA supply.
Wayne....
-
Well Wayne, it was a race to see who got finished their lathes first, think I won :D Now its a race to see who gets finished first again, your lathe or my mill, think you will win this one :D
Hood
-
Haha. Well Kinda! I have done 2 more lathes, 1 mill and an automated plating line since I started this one ;) Just none of em have Mach installed ;) They were not for me though sadly.
Wayne....
-
Oh well I cant compete with that, all I have done is build a coil winding machine for a guy I do work for.
Hood
-
It's OK Robin! Oh and the vacformer which was for me. Who'd have thought I'd had made over 1000 silly hats for Devo since March. Thats spawned yet another project though.
I really could of done with the Hardinge during this time though, I had to sub a fair bit of work out. Still we're getting there now. Need to though as my original Hardinge (Smaller Spindle) will get a revamp when this ones done.
Wayne.....
-
You should have saved yourself time and just popped into B&Q and bought flowerpots :D
Hood
-
I'm a purist and glutton for punishment it seems! Besides don't think the band would "wear it" dum dum!!
Whats this mill you are doing? That old croaking BOSS I saw on youtube? Where's the link to it? Is it here somewhere?
Soon as I got something to show I'll put some Hardinge Machine erotica on Youtube with an appropriate Devo soundtrack!
Wayne....
-
I'm a purist and glutton for punishment it seems! Besides don't think the band would "wear it" dum dum!!
Oh man now that was bad ::)
Whats this mill you are doing? That old croaking BOSS I saw on youtube? Where's the link to it? Is it here somewhere?
Its a Beaver NC5, the BOSS made a manual Bridgeport look small, the Beaver makes the BOSS look tiny LOL. Dont have anything online yet and stupidly I didnt take any pics of it when I got it.
It came with DC Servos but the drives whistled so bad it did my head in, seems its normal for the drives and some people hear it others dont, I did and they had to go LOL.
I have AC Servos on all axis now, have a Big AC Servo for the spindle, planning on making a toolchanger for it in the future. Also thinking of putting a servo on the Knee instead of the induction motor it has now, hopefully then I will be able to set the knee up to do tool offsets but again thats way in the future.
Soon as I got something to show I'll put some Hardinge Machine erotica on Youtube with an appropriate Devo soundtrack!
Wayne....
Look forward to that, well seeing the vid anyway nt so sure about the soundtrack :D
Hood
-
Were the old drives PWM or SCR?
Yep some of those switching frequencies can be bad for some, and ok for others.
Interestingly you reminded me about this site which I must test on my daughter tomorrow, it's amazingly accurate so far. Though there are higher frequencies I can still here with gaps in between.
http://www.freemosquitoringtones.org/
Wayne.....
-
They were Contraves NC700 drives, I think PWM.
Ha ha well its weird that site, on the ringtones page I can only hear to 16KHz but on the hearing test page I can hear the 18KHz with ease.
Hood
-
More work done today. Wired up spindle encoder, Make up new encoder cables for the axis.
The cabinet is looking rather busy again these days. Though I think I've made a neat job of it. Have to fit a panel to the door of the contro cab so i can mount yet mroe DIN rail.
Thought about fitting the new seal kit to the turret but had more important work to do. I'll do that when I have cleared a few jobs this week.
Wayne.....
-
Looking forward to seeing it running.
Hood
-
Not as much as I am ;) It's got beyond the ridiculous!
I do remember quite a clearly a friend seeing it all in pieces and saying "you'll never get that going again" I can almost see the lump forming in this throat at the moment :P
Wayne....
-
Well here's a little picture of in progress work this week, just tidying up a lot of the wiring.
Loads more to do, but it's mostly all worked out and tested. I just have to rewire as I want it to stay.
Transformer is 45v 1kVA giving 64v DC for the servos, The two contactors to the right of it turn it on via a soft start resistor (Seen top of pic). Timer relay(Far right) operates the righthand contactor to short out the resistor.
Larger contactor below supplies power to the spindle drive. Circuit breakers to its left.
Grey wire running through all contactors is part of the Estop chain. Blue wire hanging around in there, is the temporary enable Neutral going to all the contactors coils for testing. The circuit is designed with all coil Lives coming straight from the same supply as the load through a breaker. If any load trips it's own breaker ALL contactors drop out, also putting machine into Estop.
Wayne....
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/fdosdesign/temp/hxl-s/hxl_s_cabinet1.jpg)
-
Looking good Wayne, just curious what size the servos are>
Hood
-
Hood.
The servo's are not that big. 300W just about the same size as the orignals. Only these are higher speed rated, and I have also changed pulley ratio from 1.85:1 to 2.5:1.
Not much done today, except real work, and sweeping up all the cut cable ties and bits of wire! Though I just been getting familiar with modbus again, never wrote all my settings down last year!
Wayne....
-
Thought they must have been fairly small with the size of the power supply.
Yes ModBUS is easily forgotten, I just got another PLC to use on the Beaver mill and took me ages to remember how to set it up.
Hood
-
For anyone thats interested here's the M6Start macro for the 4 station turret on my Hardinge.
It passes the requested station # to the Cubloc PLC via a holding register mapped to 66 in mach and D12 on the Cubloc.
The Cubloc always has it's actual station # available in D13 (67 in Mach) via it's turret encoder routine. = 0 when invalid = 1 to 4 for valid stations.
I'll probably post the Cubloc program when it's developed a bit more.
The Macro below is partially based on Hoods Churchill Macro. Thanks Robin...
Wayne.....
'Toolchange macro for Hardinge HXL-S and Cubloc CUSB36R PLC
'September 10th 2008
tool = GetSelectedTool()
If Tool = GetCurrentTool() Then 'Ignore and Exit if already there
End
End If
If Tool <1 Then 'If tool called is < 1
MsgBox ("Error! Tool "& tool & " Out Of Range") 'error message
DoOemButton (1003) 'Stop Button
End 'End macro
End If
If Tool >4 Then 'If tool called is > 4
MsgBox ("Error! Tool "& tool & " Out Of Range")
DoOemButton (1003)
End
End If
Message ("Waiting for Turret Station " & tool)
If Tool=1 Then 'tool = 1
Call SetModOutput (66,1) 'Reg D12
Do
If GetInput (67) = tool Then 'Reg D13
Call SetModOutput (66,0) 'Reset D12
Exit Do
End If
Loop
End If
If Tool=2 Then 'tool = 2
Call SetModOutput (66,2)
Do
If GetInput (67) = tool Then
Call SetModOutput (66,0)
Exit Do
End If
Loop
End If
If Tool=3 Then 'tool = 3
Call SetModOutput (66,3)
Do
If GetInput (67) = tool Then
Call SetModOutput (66,0)
Exit Do
End If
Loop
End If
If Tool=4 Then 'tool = 4
Call SetModOutput (66,4)
Do
If GetInput (67) = tool Then
Call SetModOutput (66,0)
Exit Do
End If
Loop
End If
Message ("Station " & tool & " OK") 'Status Msg
SetCurrentTool( tool )
End
-
Just glad it helped Wayne :)
Hood
-
Well more macro's in the works at the moment.
I can't remember the allowed custom macro rules for mach, I just been working on Collet open and close macro's. Ideally I'd like to use the more conventional M10,11. But they seem to be reserved for something (Probing?)
Even replacing those with my own, the new ones seem to be ignored. I was able to use M20,21 though ! Thats also normally an clamp/unclamp signal on many machines. But I think for Indexers.
I don't really want to start using high number M codes for those that are very conventional.
Wayne....
-
Wayne
I used M13 and M14 when I had the Hydraulic chuck on, not sure why I chose them, maybe just next available not used M codes, or could have been what the original used, will have to look at the old manual and see.
Hood
-
Here's the Clamp/UnClamp macro's just in case anyone could use them.
I think the Sleep() command takes it's Argument in milliseconds??
Wayne...
'M20 Collet Clamp Macro for Hardinge HXL-S and Cubloc CUSB36R
'11th September 2008
Call setmodoutput (16,0) 'deactivate Unclamp Valve just in case
sleep (200) 'wait 0.2 secs
Call SetmodOutput (17,1) 'Cubloc P17 Actuate Valve
sleep(200)
Call SetmodOutput (17,0) 'Deactuate Valve No need for coil to remain on
Message ("Collet/Chuck Clamped OK") 'OK Status Msg
'M21 Collet UnClamp Macro for Hardinge HXL-S and Cubloc CUSB36R
'11th September 2008
DoSpinStop() 'Spindle OFF
While Getoemdro(817) > 100 'Bypassed To S Value DRO (817) For bench testing.
'While Getoemdro(39) > 100 'oemdro(39) (Spindle true) for final setup.
message ("Waiting for spindle to Slow")
Wend 'Wait for spindle to slow to < 100 rpm
Call setmodputput (17.0) 'Deactivate Clamp valve just in case
sleep (200)
Call SetModOutput (16,1) 'Cubloc P16 high (Unclamp)
sleep(200) 'wait 0.2 secs
Call setmodoutput (16,0) 'Deactuate Valve No need for coil to remain on
Message ("Collet/Chuck UnClamped OK") 'OK Status Msg
-
More stuff here. This time the Diagnostic/In progress version on my Cubloc code.
I'll update this as I make significant alterations to it. But might come in handy to anyone starting out or struggling with the Cubloc PLC's.
Mostly in Cubloc basic. Some ladder will be added later.
Also a pic of the cubloc study board just about fully loaded with every switch and Led used up to test the logic on the desk. Everything has been connected to match the IO assignments on the CUSB36R PLC.
The code below has been updated here a fair bit. BUT BE AWARE is has a lot of diagnostic code included. e.g the Pendant stuff which enabled me to test the toolchange routine when not connected to Mach. I ran out of inputs and had to use the Estop input for the 4th button! This obviously is not staying like that as I have no use for the pendant on the real machine.
Wayne....
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/fdosdesign/temp/hxl-s/cubloc_hxl1.jpg)
'Hardinge HXL-S PLC code for CUSB36R
Const Device = CB280
Set Display 2,0,1,50
Opencom 1,115200,3,80,80
Set Modbus 1,1,20
Cls
Wait 1500
Locate 3,0
Print "HARDINGE HXL-S"
Locate 1,1
Print "FDOS Design 2008"
Locate 0,3
Print "PLC Firmware V0.08"
Csroff
Wait 1500
Cls
Csroff
Dim cl As String 'Clear Line
Dim spin As String 'Spindle Status (CW, CCW, OFF)
Dim sro As Integer 'Spindle Override Pot (% FSD)
Dim fro As Integer 'Fedrate Override Pot (% FSD)
Dim station As Integer 'Decoded Turret Station #
Dim estop As Integer 'EStop Chain Status
Dim status_page As Integer 'Current Page (LCD Display)
Dim req_tool As Integer 'Requested Tool
Dim turret_encoder As Integer 'Encoder value (all 4 bits)
Dim pendant As Integer
Dim settle_time As Long
'*******************************************
'* RELAY OUPUTS *
'*******************************************
Usepin 4,Out,coolant 'Coolant
Usepin 5,Out,spindle_cw 'Spindle CW
Usepin 6,Out,spindle_ccw 'Spindle CCW
Usepin 7,Out,spindle_lock 'Spindle Lock Disengage
Usepin 16,Out,collet_open 'collet open
Usepin 17,Out,collet_close 'collet close
Usepin 22,Out,tstock_fwd 'tailstock forward
Usepin 23,Out,tstock_ret 'tailstock retract
Usepin 40,Out,cush_ret 'air cushion retract
Usepin 41,Out,cush_eng 'air cushion engage
Usepin 42,Out,index 'Turret Up and Index
Usepin 43,Out,lube_pump 'Lube Pump
Usepin 44,Out,sys_enable 'System Enable
'*******************************************
'* ANALOGUE INPUTS *
'*******************************************
Input 24 'Feedrate Override
Input 25 'Spindle Override
'*******************************************
'* 'OPTO Inputs *
'*******************************************
Usepin 10,In,turret_down 'turret down
Usepin 11,In,index_complete 'index complete
Usepin 12,In,spindle_locked 'spindle locked
Usepin 13,In,tstock_inuse 'tailstock in Use
Usepin 28,In,tur_enc1 'turret station 1
Usepin 29,In,tur_enc2 'turret station 2
Usepin 30,In,tur_enc3 'turret station 3
Usepin 31,In,tur_enc4 'turret station 4
Usepin 32,In,low_coolant 'low coolant switch
Usepin 33,In,low_collet 'low collet pressure
Usepin 34,In,low_air 'low air pressure
Usepin 35,In,emg_stop 'EMERGENCY STOP!
Usepin 36,In 'Page Select
Usepin 37,In,pendant1 'spare
Usepin 38,In,pendant2 'spare
Usepin 39,In,pendant3 'spare
'*******************************************
'* startup defaults *
'*******************************************
cl = " " '20 Spaces (clear line)
status_page = 0
settle_time = 250 'Air valve settle time in milliseconds
Set Ladder On
Wait 10 'Allow time for ladder to start
'*******************************************
'* Bootup Operations *
'*******************************************
Do While low_air = 0 'check low air switch is closed before proceeding
sys_enable = 0 'Open PLC estop relay
Gosub error_title
Gosub low_air_error
Wait 1000
Locate 0,0
Print cl 'Flash ERROR! msg 1 sec interval
Wait 1000
Loop
Cls
Csroff
Locate 2,0
Print "Reseting Startup"
Locate 6,2
Print "Defaults"
coolant = 0 'coolant off
spindle_cw = 0 'spindle cw off
spindle_ccw = 0 'spindle ccw off
Do While spindle_locked = 0 'read spindle locked switch
spindle_lock = 1 'disengage spindle lock
Loop
Wait settle_time
spindle_lock = 0
cush_ret = 1 'retract air cushion
Wait settle_time
cush_ret = 0
cush_eng = 1 'engage air cushion
Wait settle_time
cush_eng = 0
Wait 1000
start:
'*******************************************
'* Main Loop *
'*******************************************
Do
Gosub scan_page
_d(13) = station 'load current station # into d13
req_tool = _D(12) 'read data register 12 for requested tool
Gosub scan_pendant
If req_tool > 0 Then
Gosub index_turret
End If
_D(10) = Adin(0) 'Read ADC0 Feedrate overide load into D10
fro = _D(10)/10.21
_D(11) = Adin(1) 'Read ADC0 Spindle overide load into D11
sro = _D(11)/10.21
estop = In(35)
Csroff 'Cursor Off
Loop
'*******************************************
'* Sub Routines *
'*******************************************
page0:
Gosub decode_turret
Locate 0,0
Print "P", Dec status_page," (Turret Status) "
Locate 0,1
Print "Enc 1-2-3-4 Req = ",Dec req_tool," "
Locate 0,2
Print "Act ",Dec tur_enc1,"-",Dec tur_enc2,"-",Dec tur_enc3,"-",Dec tur_enc4
Locate 11,2
If station = 0 Then
Print " : Error!"
Else
Print " Stn = ",Dec station," "
End If
Locate 0,3
Print "Idx Cmp ",Dec In(11)," Tur Dwn ",Dec In(10)
Return
page1:
Locate 0,0
Print "P",Dec status_page," (Warning Inputs)"
Locate 0,1
Print "ESTOP ",Dec In(35)," Low Air ", Dec In(34)
Locate 0,2
Print "Low Collet Press ",Dec In(33)," "
Locate 0,3
Print "Low Coolant ",Dec In(32)," "
Return
page2:
Locate 0,0
Print "P",Dec status_page," (Analogue Inputs)"
Locate 0,1
Print "FRO ",Dp(fro,3),"%"," SRO ",Dp(sro,3),"%"
Locate 0,2
Print cl
Locate 0,3
Print cl
Return
page3:
Gosub scan_pendant
Locate 0,0
Print "P",Dec status_page," (Blank) "
Locate 0,1
Print "spindle locked ",Dec spindle_locked," "
Locate 0,2
Print "turret down ",Dec turret_down
Locate 0,3
Print "Index Complete ",Dec index_complete
Return
error_title:
Locate 7,0
Print "ERROR!"
Return
low_air_error:
Locate 2,2
Print "LOW AIR PRESSURE"
Locate 2,3
Print "SYSTEM INHIBITED"
Return
scan_page:
If Keyinh(36,250) Then
status_page = status_page + 1
Endif
If status_page >3 Then
status_page = 0
Endif
Select Case status_page
Case 0
Gosub page0
Case 1
Gosub page1
Case 2
Gosub page2
Case 3
Gosub page3
End Select
Return
scan_pendant: 'Temporary routine for testing toolchange via pendant
pendant = (pendant1 * 8) + (pendant2 * 4) + (pendant3 * 2) + emg_stop 'Convert to Pseudo Binary
Select Case pendant
Case &b1000
req_tool = 1
Case &b0100
req_tool = 2
Case &b0010
req_tool = 3
Case &b0001
req_tool = 4
Case Else
req_tool = 0
End Select
Return
index_turret:
If req_tool >4 Then
Return
Endif
Cls
Wait 50
Locate 0,0
Print "Toolchange Requested"
Do
If station = req_tool Then
Exit Do
Endif
Locate 0,1
Print "Requested Station= ",Dec req_tool
Locate 0,2
Print " Current Station= ",Dec station
Locate 0,3
Print "Idx Comp ",Dec index_complete," Tur Dwn ",Dec turret_down
Csroff
Do Until index_complete = 1
index = 1
Locate 0,3
Print "Idx Comp ",Dec index_complete," Tur Dwn ",Dec turret_down
Csroff
Loop
Do Until turret_down = 1
index = 0
Locate 0,3
Print "Idx Comp ",Dec index_complete," Tur Dwn ",Dec turret_down
Csroff
Loop
Gosub decode_turret
If station = 0 Then
Goto turret_failure
Endif
Loop
Return
decode_turret:
turret_encoder = (tur_enc1 * 8) + (tur_enc2 * 4) + (tur_enc3 * 2) + tur_enc4 'Convert to Pseudo Binary
Select Case turret_encoder
Case &b0111
station = 1
Case &b1011
station = 2
Case &b1101
station = 3
Case &b1110
station = 4
Case Else
station = 0
End Select
Return
turret_failure:
Cls
Gosub error_title
Locate 1,2
Print "Toolchange Failure"
Csroff
sys_enable = 0 'Generate Estop
Wait 5000
Goto start 'Temporary restart
Function status(raw As Byte)As String
If raw = 1 Then
status = "ON "
Else
status = "OFF"
Endif
End Function
-
Wayne
I presume the Cubeloc is 5v I/O?
Hood
-
Hood.
The Study board is. The CUSB36R is 24v able via the onboard opto's.
http://cubloc.com/product/03_02cusb36r.php
you can also get it in the UK for £100...
Wayne...
-
How does Mach communicate with Cubloc?
Looks like a nice package and at £100 its pretty good value.
Hood
-
The Cubloc has Modbus.
So I just use the standard Modbus support in Mach.
Yes £100 is pretty good considering what you get. There are smaller CUSB devices, and also the CB405 boards which give even more IO.
example
http://www.audon.co.uk/cb405.html#expansion
For the 405 Baseboard. Processor not included unlike the CUSB devices.
Wayne....
-
Have a PLC for the new mill already so not needing one but definitely worth thinking about for any future retrofits.
Hood
-
Here's a pic of the Smoothstepper and diycnc.co.uk breakout board mounted in a DIN rail adapter.
Wayne....
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/fdosdesign/temp/hxl-s/smoothstepper_din_mount.jpg)
-
Looks good, you just have plastic spacers keeping the SS off the Alu?
Hood
-
Not plastic. The SS is stood off 5mm on pukka standoffs. Then 25mm standoffs to separate the 2nd plate.
One of the mounting holes on the SS can be set to GND, and this I have done.
Wayne....
-
Hi Wayne,
May I ask what pukka is?
EDIT: (forgot to say) very nice work!
Thanks,
Dave
-
Dave
The language barriers hit again!
I googled it to find out where it came from ;)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pukka_sahib
I meant it as "real" or "proper" standoff for example.
Wayne...
-
Ah, I see! lol! Thanks for the lesson :)
-
It Lives !!!
Well at least the X axis. I'll do the Z tomorrow, have a couple of PCB's to make to tidy things up some more.
Wayne.....
-
Will get around to the Z axis in about an hour.
But here's a Pic update. The Cabinet Door is now getting a little busy, but not much more to do there.
Wayne......
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/fdosdesign/temp/hxl-s/hxl_s_cab_door1.jpg)
-
Looking nice and tidy :)
Hood
-
I try! But I was once described as the most untidy worker ever in a firm I used to work for! It's true, but only in respect to the actual workplace, ie tools EVERYWHERE!
Z Axis is now running. I think it was a little sticky after being parked for 4 years. Servo tuning was hit and miss, so I left it it a running state, and wrote a quick program to move both axis's with a pseudo Sine Wave motion at various speeds from 1500, 2250 and 3000mm a minute. Then a rapid back to the start. This was looped 50 times, so 150 cycles. I'll run it again tomorrow and then try tuning the servo's some more.
Might even cut a part tomorrow just for kicks.
Smoothstepper seems to be running ok. no glitches even with the 3Kw VFD running.
Wayne.....
-
Lookin good Wayne.
Brett
-
A quick video...
I have cut a real thread a few minutes ago, and it looks like the pitch is good if not perfect*.
* Update2: No the pitch was not quite perfect But also neither was my setup! I was sure the ballscrews were 5tpi. Oh NO they are NOT! They are 5mm pitch. I'll test again tomorrow.
http://www.youtube.com/v/Xw45x7ajyz4&hl
-
I tested again tonight ;)
Seems OK (I think!) I'll check it on a projector tomorrow.
Pic is a 25mm x 1.50 pitch thread cut at 1500rpm (Yes really!) with an M10 coach bolt next to it. Looks pretty close though hard to photograph.
Wayne.....
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/fdosdesign/temp/hxl-s/thread_compare1.jpg)
-
More wiring today.
Needed to get the X axis rear cover back on, so a lot of wire terminating to do. The X Axis rear cover on this machine contains most of the wiring for sensors which move with the carriages. ie all Limit and Home sensors, the encoder and 2 other sensors for the turret as well as Encoder and servo cables for the X axis itself.
Made up a little connector board from Vero Board (Stripboard) as the original connectors were not reusable. It all fitted ok and is secure which is what counts.
All the sensors are run at 12v and are all Open Collector Hall Effect types. So down in the cabinet they will all need pull up resistors and the Home sensors will go to Opto Isolators to convert to 5v for the smoothstepper.
Wayne....
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/fdosdesign/temp/hxl-s/hxl_sensor_terminations_in_x_axis.jpg)
-
Another pic for the Diary. Seem to be making a fair bit of progress these days (Gladly)
This little PCB I made up yesterday takes all the 12v signals which come from the terminal board in the previous picture.
All the Turret signals just get pulled up on the pcb and will just go straight out again to the PLC.
The Home and limit signals get pulled up, and go through the bank of Opto's (Top right) to convert down to 5v signals. The expansion header (Top left) will route all these out to another board which I have not done yet. The Homes also come out to the screw terminals (Bottom Left) in 5v form, which I have connected up temporarily to the Smooth Stepper for testing when I took this pic.
There are also (Obviously!) LED's showing status of all the inputs. In the pic the green led's show T4 in place with Turret down and Locked, and X++ Limit triggered.
Wayne......
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/fdosdesign/temp/hxl-s/hxl_12v_if.jpg)
-
I knew things just had to be going too well!
The station1 Hall sensor in the turret encoder decided to go flaky on me tonight. I looked for something as a drop in replacement and didn't really come up with anything except some Honeywell chips that are very expensive and not the correct supply voltage anyway.
I remembered I had a range of Glass reed switches which a supplier or rep gave me as a sample once. I knew there was a huge range of sizes in this package, and sure enough there was something that would fit.
Out with the Dremel again and dug out the epoxy potting carefully and removed the faulty chip. With a little care I was able to leave enough of it's legs in place to get some solder joints on, and fitted the reed switch in it's place. It works! and at least will keep me moving on. But I'll have to maybe make a new encoder as a spare I think.
Pic shows it repaired and repotted.
Wayne.....
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/fdosdesign/temp/hxl-s/hxl_station1_encoder_fault_repotted.jpg)
-
Coming along nicely Wayne :)
I had similar probs when I did my turret, it worked great for a few days then started continually indexing at times, discovered that it was the small limit switches that had given up the ghost. I think it was just lack of use that had weakened them as it had probably been sitting on the same index for 10 years or more.
Hood
-
Yes it happens with old gear ;) That encoder if you remember I had to open it up once before to change the cable on it. That repair can be seen ay about the 4 O'clock Position.
I knw for a fact that the original hall sensors are no longer made. But if a reed switch works well then it's ok.
I just know oneday I'll not be successful in this type of surgery. One slip and its all lost!! I thought if any it would be the T4 position that played up, I did notice when doing th PLC code that that station seemed to have weaker sensitivity than the others. It would not register as in place until it was back down on it's seat. The other stations registered even when still up.
Wayne.....
-
The turret was put back on this morning after letting the Epoxy set overnight.
It all works OK, so I spent a couple of hours wiring all the other sensors to the PLC. Also all the Solenoid valves were connected up to the PLC too.
A little time spent checking all the signals were getting to the PLC and having all the correct polarities ie 1's and 0's where I thought they ought to be !
So far so good. Time to setup Modbus on that PC and install my M6 macro and the M20,21 macro's.
It ALL works!! What a treat to see the turret indexing without manually operating the 5 port valves. Fairly quick too. The Collet opens and closes OK too (M21,20)
Wayne.....
-
I just can't seem to put this thing down at the moment, which I suppose is good. Though I'm determined to run a real job on the Hardinge this w/e.
Todays work has made that more practical. Yet another pcb made, this one interfaces with the PLC and also takes the DIYCNC Spindle2 board (Step/dir to Voltage converter) as a piggyback board. I haven't taken a picture yet as it's all still strewn over the floor in a test setup! But it all works, and I now have software control over the spindle.
I found that although the Siemens MM440 VFD I'm using as a spindle drive was all ok operated from it's keypad, but under analogue control I could ony get speeds upto 50Hz. A quick delve into the VAST manuals suggested the ADC input required scaling, and there are several parameters involved! After a lot of fiddling I have speeds upto 4000rpm and fairly linear. Linearity I will tune some more later. Upto about 1800 rpm it's always within about 10 rpm of commanded, but gains slightly at higher speeds, although always within 100 rpm.
Wayne.....
-
Had a few issues with the machine this w/e but hopefully we are over those now.
Here's another quick video showing the machine cutting it's first job as part of the shakedown.
Wayne.....
http://www.youtube.com/v/XPHUgdHlcP0&hl=en&fs=1">
-
Very good Wayne. Its looking good and very tidy so far.
Brett
-
Thanks Brett. Still a way to go yet. Looking forward to the day I can replace all the covers and start on the user interface.
A Job I'm not looking forward to is fitting the new windows in the doors. I have the replacement Polycarbonate ready though. The doors are the only thing I didn't have powdercoated from the upper enclosure, so they will need painting too after reglazing. Have to be wet paint though ;)
Wayne.....
-
Last night decided to bite the bullet and pull the whole turret assy apart to clean it all up and fit the brand new Genuine Hardinge (But oh so expensive!) seal kit.
It was obvious why the machine consumed so much air. All the quad rings bar about 2 were very worn and so brittle none came off without breaking into little pieces.
The main Index cylinder had a nasty score down it's bore too. Probably the result of a sloppy bit of maintainance in it's past. I had to make a new one (Pic linked) and was lucky to find a big enough piece of brass to make a replacement as I dont do much larger brass work. The cylinder is 1 3/4" bore and 2" ok x 3" long.
I'm happy to report the turret assy is now silent when air is turned on! It also indexes a lot smoother after having a good service. I ran about 20 cycles of the above Derin part in air and the compressor never kicked in once. It was refilling every 2 1/2 parts before!
Wayne......
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/fdosdesign/temp/hxl-s/hxl_index_cyl_oldandnew.jpg)
-
The trouble with projects that take so long is you sometimes mislay the odd item!
I was going to spend this morning putting the covers back on the machine as I want to use it tomorrow with coolant on. Obviously I knew where the covers were as they are kind of hard to lose! But the screws!! I spent all morning looking for a container I was sure they were in, but ended up taking all morning tidying up in the hope of finding them.
A friend turns up and finds them within 5 minutes! They were not in the container I thought they were in after all.
Anyway a couple of tubes of caulking and this is where I'm at today.
Wayne.....
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/fdosdesign/temp/hxl-s/hxl_covers_on1.jpg)
-
This will probably be the last update for a while, well until there is something of a more technical nature to show. Probably when I get to the user i/f stuff and the custom turn screens for this machine.
It now has to earn its keep for at least another week or two!
The Delrin job in the recent video didn't really task the machine much, though the machine tasked me for a day or so;)
Todays job was more like it though, and all that clean paintwork is dirty inside again! A nice steel job which I've made for many years, but a first for this Hardinge. You can just make out the Gang tool holder I made for station 1 on sunday. It holds a 20mm stub drill, and a 16mm boring bar in this pic, although it can hold 3 16mm round shank tools.
Wayne.....
(http://homepage.ntlworld.com/fdosdesign/temp/hxl-s/dirty_1st%20properjob.jpg)
-
Brovo Wayne!!!!!!! Very good.
Brett
-
Bravo Wayne! Looking VERY good and gives me faith in mine! Just here to let you know the link worked, thank you for sending. Can't wait to start reading from the beginning again :)
Mark
-
Wow. Just got done rereading the entire thread. I am exhausted just from reading LOL
Absolutely incredible work Wayne. My head is spinning as I don't have a lot of experience in the electrical end of things, though I'm learning from trying to keep 20-25 year old machines running.
My HXL is down right now with a spindle drive problem. A friend of Hood's (waving hi to Hood! man it's been a while, I hope things are well with you!) is trying to help me trouble shoot it long distance. It's been difficult with my lack of expertise. I am wondering if I could just bypass all the original electronics with a retro-fit. The iron is in excellent condition, as are the axis drive motors, and the spindle motor itself. It's just the electronics that keep breaking down.
I absolutely loved the surgery you did on the pickup for the tool changer. You, sir, are a craftsman!
I'll be in the shop today and will get you a list of all the manuals I have, which is fairly comprehensive.
On a side note, I have a Wells Index CNC mill run by an oooold Sharnoa controller. Been keeping that going with minor tweaks here and there, too. A prime candidate for a retrofit. Again, the iron is in excellent condition.
Mark
-
Mark
Well as you might have noticed a vast part of the progress was made in the last month! I kind of took time out of real work to get it done, otherwise it would still be here able to do nothing. As I type it's working, so it's been worth it.
I'll try to do anything to inspire you to do yours! Its really worth it in the end. OK I've had a few glitches on the way, but I think I came up with good solutions. I know what it's like to try and earn with a machine suffering from a flaky control, i still have one or two here like that. I'm also that not the type to go out spend 60K on a new machine, my money or the banks doesnt matter. I know so many people like that who have paid dearly for the convenience.
As you well know these old Hardinges if run on cutting oil all their lives, tend to last forever in the iron dept. Thats worth a lot, and where else would you find a machine of the same capabilty that sits on a 6ft x 3ft footprint?
In your case with a lot of work done here, I think you could be onto a winner, I'm more than happy to give you all the information on what I did.
Wayne.....
-
Thank you very much Wayne. You've already inspried me to get back to work on it. Mine, too, was run with cutting oil, hence everything being in excellent condition. And you're right, I went with this for it's footprint size, too. I just need to figure out where to get started (and will reread all your valuable information a few times). I will definitely be picking your brain :) Thank you for the offer.
I know it'll definitely be worthwhile in the end. I changed jobs recently and haven't had a lot of time to play with it, but that's changing now :)
I just sent you a list of manuals I have. Hope they can help in some small way.
Mark
-
Mark
Here's another vid done tonight which may inspire you some more ;)
Wayne....
http://www.youtube.com/v/4iIwQHlV_j4&hl=en&fs=1
-
LOL Very cool Wayne! Not only are you inspiring me, but you're making me jealous! LOL Looks great!
I will set about scanning that info for you, will take a while so be patient ;)
Great videography! Thanks for sharing :)
Mark
-
Looks like your almost there Wayne :)
Mark
Good to see you here again, hope you get your issues sorted.
Hood
-
Mark
No need to feel jealous! These Hardinges have to be kept going they're classy! ;)
What type of Spindle drive/motor does your GE based machine have? AC or DC? I have real issues with those old DC drives, hence the reason mine got removed. So far I'm more than happy with the 3kW AC setup I now have. Siemens Micromaster 440 drive and matching braking resistor and Siemens 4 pole Iron Framed motor. The motor after milling the round flange square like the original was a drop in replacement. I think the original motor was either 3.5 or 4 kW.
I think actually when I think back over all the purchases that spindle setup was the most costly. 2nd was all the replacement 5 port valves, and then the servo motors and drives. All the rest added up to quite a bit but I'm happy now!
Wayne.....
-
Well the machine has been running about a year now, and I been fairly happy with it.
Been a few issues along the way, but recently the X axis servo decided it didn't want to work again!
Actually it was the 2nd time, but the 1st time (about 3 months ago) I was able to rescue it. Sadly last week no such luck, so bit the bullet and swapped out that axis motor/drive for a new 400W Brushless AC Setup. Quite an eye opener really, although very close spec to the Brushed DC that came out the Brushless motor out performs it in every way.
Anyway here's a vid of the machine running recently.
http://www.youtube.com/v/P4L2hoPV04g&hl=en&fs=1
Wayne....
http://<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/P4L2hoPV04g&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/P4L2hoPV04g&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
http://<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/P4L2hoPV04g&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/P4L2hoPV04g&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
-
Very very cool video Wayne!! Congratulations and job well done!
Just realized it's been almost a year to the day when I was last in here :( Been trying to get hold of you!
I finally got the maintenance manual onto a zip drive and tried emailing to you some time ago. Not sure why, but it wouldn't go.
I am at the point where I am ready to start parting my machine out. I just don't have the skills to work on the electronics. It's sat, untouched, for a year now and is taking up valuable space! I'll be putting it on Ebay again soon, but don't have high hopes. It went unoticed in the Practical Machinist :(
If you're interested in anything, send me a wish list. Shipping could be an issue, though LOL
Hope all is well with you and thanks for sharing the video!
Mark
-
Mark
Shame, but maybe offer it on here? or the EMC guys. The HXL is really a good machine and someone should want it.
Not many machines capable of the same accuracy for little money day in day out.
I'd be interested in a Parts catcher if yours has one!
Wayne....
-
Nice video Wayne. Looks like your parts catcher is working fine too. LOL
Brett
-
bump
-
bump
Nothing to bump! The machine runs day in day out making parts.