Machsupport Forum
General CNC Chat => Show"N"Tell ( Your Machines) => Topic started by: Jammerm on February 02, 2009, 02:35:04 PM
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I've been scrounging pieces and parts for a couple of months. Now, I'm getting ready to think about, maybe starting to attempt some sort of construction. My goal is a 3 axis machine to carve foam or soft wood with a Dremal or Roto-zip.
Do I sound like a skeptical pessimist. Maybe, I just have a million things going around in my head that I see as potential problems. Most I've dismissed and I'll try not to ask a bunch of dumb questions on the rest. I am not a machinists nor a computer experts by no means. So, if I can pull this off, anyone can. About 80% of the stuff on this site is way over my head, I hope I don't have to know it all.
Anyway, here is some old medical equipment I picked up. It has 3 axis and they will all end up on top of the machine. So, Flip it over in your head. The first picture is as I found it and the 2nd is after the extras were stripped off. Then a shot of the Steppers that came with it and a close up of the x and y screws. My first questions: Are those screws going to be too steep a thread for the machine? I've been looking for some acme thread to replace them with. Sorry about all the background junk in the pictures, except for my son, he's not junk.
(http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x310/Jammer_55/CNC%20Build/b00e9309.jpg)
(http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x310/Jammer_55/CNC%20Build/IMG_2416.jpg)
(http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x310/Jammer_55/CNC%20Build/IMG_2419.jpg)
(http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x310/Jammer_55/CNC%20Build/IMG_2418.jpg)
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Looks to me like you are well on the way to your first build.
The threads are steep but with a 'microstepping' controller and your 200 step motors you should be OK for all but precision stuff.
Tweakie.
btw. None of us knows it all so you are amongst equals here.
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Thanks Tweakie, that helps. I won't plan on building any clocks right away.
I'm going to cut some of the frame work today and tomorrow if I can stay warm enough. My garage is like a tomb.
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My workshop is pretty much the same, this time of year.
Good luck and don't forget to post pictures of your build as you go - there will be lots of interest.
Tweakie.
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Well, I got a lot done in the last couple days.
Shortened the z axis to about 5"
(http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x310/Jammer_55/CNC%20Build/IMG_2460.jpg)
(http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x310/Jammer_55/CNC%20Build/IMG_2467.jpg)
Built the frame and table.
(http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x310/Jammer_55/CNC%20Build/IMG_2449.jpg)
And got some of it bolted together.
(http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x310/Jammer_55/CNC%20Build/IMG_2462.jpg)
(http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x310/Jammer_55/CNC%20Build/IMG_2463.jpg)
I've got a long way to go, finish bolting it together and get the motors and wiring done.
I got my copy of Mach 3 and a computer just for the CNC. I still need a monitor and Keyboard.
My machine will have a 15" X axis, 11" Y axis and 5" Z axis. I may have to make some adjustments to the Z axis
Because of the box at the back.
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Very cool, thanks for sharing, is that 80/20 extruded material or something else?
Love watching the build- :)
Dave
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Looking really good.
Tweakie.
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Thanks Guys, I do believe it's 80/20 metric. The bolts are 8 mm. I picked up about 25' of it at a surplus store for $1 / pound.
I got a lot of the fasteners with it but not enough. I may order some or improvise.
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Update today:
I've got rotation !!! Got the driver board and E-stop/breakout board wired up, so I hooked up the motors and got them to turn forward and reverse.
The motors are sitting on the power supply, it's 12/5/5/5 vdc and has it's own cooling fan. I need to get the back board mounted in the cabinet and wire up some switches and Micro-switch limit switches.
(http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x310/Jammer_55/CNC%20Build/IMG_0010.jpg)
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Oh what a feeling !
Congratulations !
RC
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Looks like your well on your way!
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Well, it's been a year and I have worked on my machine off and on some. Now I'm trying to finish the wiring, it's a little trickier than I thought.
A quick question, on the limit switches, do I run one wire and have them go to ground or do I need to run 2 wires to each switch. I got 6 switches and I'm mounting 2 on each axis. I'm trying to run the least amount of wire possible.
The E-stop board has spots for 8 switches, 3 grounds and pin1, the main board is for 4 axis machine. I'm trying to find the papers to it. ???
Thanks
(http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x310/Jammer_55/CNC%20Build/IMG_0010.jpg)
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Good going on your project. Glad to see someone having fun and getting a lot of self satisfaction.
Remember that you need to show pic'c of your first piece you do.
RICH
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With regard to your limit switches - It is better to run two wires because the machine frame is not always all at the same potential (moving axis for example may only be electrically connected to the main frame via the slides bearings). Also ground loops are a potential source of noise pickup and subsequent problems. Don't forget to used screened cable (grounded at the controller end only, preferable to a single point ground connection).
Tweakie.
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Thanks Rich and Tweakie. I've got a couple days here to do some serious work on it. I hope I can get it at least close to finished.
I'm glad I didn't cut off the ground wire in the cable. So I just ground one end at the board.
I just realized I forgot about the power cord to the router!!! That would have been a hassle after everything else was together.
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There are two grounds,one for the circuit and one for the shield. The circuit ground should go back to the same ground used for the source
, in this case the board. The shield should be grounded to say the controller frame / box.
RICH
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Thanks Rich, electronics and pooters aren't my strong points. I'm best with good old mechanical stuff, if it moves I like it. I know electrons move but I can't see them.
So, I shouldn't ground the board to the frame? The power supply is grounded to the frame and the router will be, also.
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Your missing a few points i made.
If you get 5V from a supply, it goes to the circuit, and then there is a ground wire to complete the circuit and it should go back to the supply ground since the voltage difference to ground will be relative to the supply source and not some other ground.
On the shield part: Imagine it's raining out and the shield is keeping the rain from getting on the wires inside of it. So the rain on the
shield takes the water to some spot where it is collected and will not touch the internal wires. That spot can be an imaginary lake and all the shields from different cables go to that lake and then a big pipe takes all the water away to get rid of it. So the shield is protecting the
internal wires from picking up any noise ( signals which make no sense to your hearing ) and providing an easy path to ground to get rid of it. So shield ground has a very different use then a circuit ground.
I deal in pounds per hour and gpm so when it comes to circuits i could be all wet. ;)
RICH
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Ok, yes the DC voltage all has it's own ground. I was referring to the case of the source being grounded to the cabinet. I imagine that's for the 120 vac in, which is grounded to the case.
I think we are over thinking this, I just didn't know about the ground on the cable shielding. OK, so I know enough about electronics to get me in trouble. :o
Thanks for putting up with me. :)
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No problem at all. :D
RICH
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Jammerm, we seem to have ended up at about the same step in construction/ installation with the same sort of questions.
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I bought most of my machine in pieces. The 3 axis set up was some old medical equipment so I just altered it a little and built a frame for it. I got Mach 3 and a used computer and that was easy to set up. I bought a 4 axis control board and an e-stop board that just plugged together and a power supply from the same surplus place as the 3 axis gantry. Now I'm just trying to get the brain to talk to the machine. It will come together, I'm trying to take my time so I don't forget something. I would just like to get it finished so I can make something. My wife was just skeptical, but now she's moving into total doubt. :'(
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Over from BYMC right?
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Yes, Jammer was taken so I added an M. :)
Your trying to put a bridgeport back to CNC?
My wires were all cut also, FrankG told me how to tell which way to wire them.
I'm not sure of the difference between steppers and servos.
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Well, I went around in circles for a couple days, then it all just seemed to come together. I've got the motor ends all wired and ran back through the wire track stuff, I got it at the surplus place, too. It would have gone a lot faster if I hadn't kept wrapping the wire around the frame or lead screws, then I'd have to pull it all out an start over. :-[ You would think I'd learn after once or twice. ::)
I still have to decide how I'm going to mount the limit switches. The X axis was pretty easy but the Y and Z don't have a clear spot to mount them, so I'll probably have to make a bracket.
(http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x310/Jammer_55/CNC%20Build/IMG_1008.jpg)
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Hi Jammerm,
Coming on well - keep up the good work and thanks for posting the pictures of your progress.
I think we all learn a lot from seeing the way other people have tackled what are essentially the same problems and obstacles we all have.
Tweakie.
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I made the power cord for the little router to be just an extention cord. So I can unplug it and put in a bigger router or a Dremal, or whatever. Maybe a 120V Laser. ;D
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Don't want to worry you but my CO2 laser runs at 16,000 Volts. ;D (perhaps you meant 120 Watts).
Good idea about making provision at this stage for possibly changing spindles in the future.
Tweakie.
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I did build a Helium Neon Laser for a high school science project. It was 120 volt in and the output was 1150 volts I think. I still have it, but it doesn't work any more. It is over 36 years old. :o
It was a Popular Electronics build.
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Well after over 2 years I'm finally making some time to work on my CNC machine. Basically running wires and changing the tool holder some. The bottom of the holder was getting in the way so I made a bracket so I can drop it down some. I cut the part from pink foam and then cast it as a lost foam casting. Just bury the foam in sand and pour the hot metal in. The foam burns up and the metal fills the space. After I cleaned it up it looks pretty good. I'll get some more pictures.
(http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x310/Jammer_55/CNC%20Build/IMG_0046.jpg)
My little Electric Furnace with a crucible full of Aluminum.
(http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x310/Jammer_55/CNC%20Build/IMG_0050.jpg)
(http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x310/Jammer_55/CNC%20Build/IMG_0055.jpg)
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Brilliant ! ;)
Tweakie.
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Thanks Tweakie, I can always count on you for encouragement.
Cleaned up the casting and put it on. I was able to drop the router down about 3". This should allow a lot more room for cutting but could be hazardous to the table.
(http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x310/Jammer_55/CNC%20Build/20120713002.jpg)
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I got everything wired up. Actually have movement, but still some problems with the motors not sounding too good and keep crashing into the limits. I'm going through the tutorials and think I know what some of the problems are. I'm just glad everything seems to be working and I'm getting close.
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Well, I've had a small set back. I went down to set the motor tuning to try to get some control. The fan didn't come on on the power supply and then it made some kind of death squeal. Fuses are all fine, power in is fine, just nothing on the outputs. Well maybe a half a volt on all three 5 volt and one 12 volt outputs. I'm heading out to the surplus to see if they have a more heavy duty supply.
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It's ALIVE!!! Tweakie, this is the scorpion code you had put on another thread. Ok, an all new set of dumb questions start. I had several files downloaded but the Mach 3 doesn't reconize most of them when I try to load the G-code. Are they in another format that I need to change to G-code?
(http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x310/Jammer_55/CNC%20Build/21120716.jpg)
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Hi Jammer,
By 'doesn't recognize' I assume you are meaning the file extension. When loading files select the drop down menu in 'Files of type' and select 'All Files'. That should allow the ones you are missing.
Excellent work with the Scorpion.
Did you have to fit a new psu ??
Tweakie.
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Yes, the old one quit. I found I didn't have the ground hooked at the plug, I assume this caused the problem. New supply cost me a whole $5.
I did the 'All Files' which opened up more. The Harley one for example, opens and looks like it loads but there isn't any g-code visible. Do DXF files have to be converted to some other format? I have a lot DXF files, the only ones that load with no problem are the 'tap' files. Well, back to the tutorials, they are great, just takes a couple time for the info to sink in. Your train loaded fine but was huge. I reset the units to metric and then it was kind of small, about 3" X 5". Is it difficult to makes the pictures larger or smaller and do they lose details like a photo if it's blown up too large? Enough questions..Thanks for all your help and a special thanks to FrankG whereever he is!!
The scorpion is the 3rd one. The first one the tool was too big, #2 cut too deep so it looked liked the first one. #3 came out just right. :)
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OK, watching Lazy Cam tutorials, looks like I need to get in there and study more...I'm too old for this. :P :-\
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Hi Jammer,
On the main Mach3 screen there are Scale DRO's - If you set the X Axis and Y Axis to 2.0000 the part will be twice the size, if you set them to 0.5000 the part will be half size and so on (be sure to press return after changing each value). The ToolPath window will show the new size of the part in Program Limits (you may need to click Regen Toolpath for this display to update).
LazyCam is pretty good for converting some DXF's but not so good for others - you just have to try it and see. ;D
Tweakie.
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Cool Tweakie, why does the yellow light flash when you change this? Just to let you know it's changed? I could see a major crash if you didn't pay attention.
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You have got it - the yellow flashing just lets you know the scale is not set to 1:1.
A free software you may be interested in is F-Engrave http://home.comcast.net/~sskroch/Fengrave/fengrave.html
It is good for both engraving and VCarving and it also allows the import of some types of DXF etc.
Tweakie.
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I'll check it out. I just cut the train and it started out good but then jumped the track somewhere. It dropped about 2 centimeters and to the left about 2 cm. I was just cutting into foam with a homemade engraver tool. It was running very slow I assume because it was set up to cut into wood or something harder. I kicked up the speed to about as fast as I could and it stopped about a quarter of the way through. I restarted it and I think that's when it went wrong. I cut the Loony-toons Coyote and Roadrunner. It came out good. My tool is a little crude, I ground a point on a bolt. Waiting on the tools I ordered from ebay.
I found an older version of Turbo Cad so I'm playing with it a little, I think its Deluxe 14. It was cheap at a closeout bookstore.
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I've got a short video made up, showing some cuts and construction. Plus a little Beethoven instead of motor noise. :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqsQ-fLb01Q&feature=g-upl
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Hi Jammer,
You don't owe me any credit - you did all that on your own and a fine machine Elmer is ;)
Tweakie.
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Had to give you some credit for your encouragement and all the ideas I got from your site.
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I thought that was a class act, that Tweak does have a lot of great ideas.
Good to see your machine is running and your happy with the outcome, that's what we all achieve.
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I've still got a couple bugs to work out and then I need to figure out the g-code.
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Ok, we've moved to Tennessee, back in February. My CNC has been in the storage locker until this week, I finally got it moved up to the house and set-up in the new garage. Someone bent one of the wire tracks, so I straightened it out and plugged it in. Other than not remembering how everything works or even my password for the CNC computer. Finally got it together and tested it out. Worked good so I cut out the scorpion and it looked great.
I did the scorpion in honor of my wife, about a month ago she had one in her pajama bottoms and freaked out :) She was cute and about an inch long, so I put her in a bottle. The scorpion, not my wife. HER because the next day she had about 50 babies on her back. :o
Under black light she fluoresced green and her babies were purple.
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Welcome to TN Jammer! Great thread, I missed it somehow.
What part of the state are you in? I'm near Memphis. Born & raised in the city but got the heck out 20 yrs. ago & moved a little east to Collierville. You sound pretty bright in the thread so I'm guessing you're in the middle or eastern part of the state. ;)
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I'm near Chattanooga. Moved here from Ohio. Very old thread, my machine was a long time in coming together. 5 years of 60 to 80 hours a week on swing shift put a stop to most hobbies.
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Ahh, Chattanooga, a nice place...been there a few times. It's got those things I've read about & seen in movies. I think you call them hills & mountains? We have nothing but flat ground here.
I work for a car dealer so I know all about how those long weeks kill one's creative time. It has been steady so I'm thankful for that.
Is the mill your last CNC project or are you planning something else?
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I think I'll just learn how to use this one for now. I mainly built it to make patterns for metal casting. See the bottom of page 3 of this thread. I'm trying to get my gas furnace set up and ready to run. I can melt about 20 pounds of Brass or Iron with it.
This is a small project I tried about a year ago.
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,22370.0.html
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Well, I've been off of here for a few years. Other projects going on. I have been using the CNC for a lot of different things, wooden signs, foam patterns for casting and wax patterns for some lost wax castings.
I have come to need a 4th axis so I have added another stepper with a small gear reducer. I believe it comes out to 20 steps per degree. I got it all wired up and it turns forward and reverse in test mode from the breakout board. When I hook it to the computer it won't turn, it clicks maybe one step or two. I have it set to angular on the A axis and have tried several different speeds on the motor tuning. Anyone have other settings that I seem to have missed?
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Try swapping it out with one of the other axes, say the X. Then see if it will move properly. This way you can tell if it is a setting in Mach or something else.
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That a good idea, I'll try that tomorrow. I've noticed this motor is a little different than the ones I have on the other 3 axis. Same brand and size but it has 6 wires instead of 8 and the black and white are put together.
I know it has 200 steps per revolution but what is the micro-stepping and is there a place to enter it into Mach 3? I was calculating with 200 steps times 40 (40 to 1 gear reducer) = 7200 divided by 360 equals 20 steps per degree.
I've been watching the tutorials and looking through the posts. I'm in info overload.
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Hmmm. I went out and reset some of the motor tuning and pins and it's working.?? But, it only runs in one direction, the DRO says it's running both directions. I changed the pins and it runs in the other direction only.
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I changed the stepper over to the z axis and it works fine, runs in both directions. I put the z axis stepper on the 4th axis and got the same problem. I either have a pin wrong or some problem in the breakout board. Is there something I'm missing on setting the 360 degree rotation the 4th axis?
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Sounds like you are not getting the direction signal to the driver. See if you have voltage going one way and no voltage when you reverse the axis. The should be tested at the drive on the direction pin.
Mike
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OK, you nailed it. I am using pins 8 and 9 for the 4th axis and it has constant voltage on 9. That's on the driver board, on the E-stop board the voltage goes off and on like the other axis. The driver board seems to be the problem. When nothing was working, I guess the internal test and directional switch was the problem. Like the contacts were dirty. I've had this set up for several years and never used the 4th axis. I may try to contact the people I got the boards from to see if they know what to try.
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Let us know how you make out.
Mike
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Here's what I sent them.
Several years ago I purchased a driver and breakout board from you. I has worked great for me. It's a 4 axis board and I never used the 4th axis. Now I'm trying to connect the 4th axis and having some trouble. The motor only turns in one direction. I'm not getting a voltage drop on the driver board on pin#9, when I reverse the motor. It drops on the breakout board but not on the driver board. Do you have any ideas what I could try? I don't see the driver board on you e bay page anymore, are you still selling them? I think I got mine in 2007.
Thank You,
This is the answer I got from them.
Hi Jerry, Sure It is possible your mach3 pinouts are incorrect, because pin 9 is the step pin and the voltage should not drop on that. Pin 8 is the actual direction pin. and pin 5 is the enable pin. See if that changes anything. Sorry, not carrying that anymore.
I may have all my pins wrong, I don't know, but it's been working. I have pins 2,3 on the X axis, 4,5 on the Y axis, 6,7 on the Z axis and 8,9 on the 4th axis. I'm not sure what the guy is telling me.
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He is trying to say that pin 8= direction and pin 9 = step.
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I've done that it just runs in the opposite direction only. I wasn't sure what he meant by pin 5 being the enable pin. ??
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If these are standard step and direction drives, changing the step pin for the direction pin should not allow it to move at all. It might move one step when it tries to change direction but that would be about it.
Mike
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Here's a 4 axis file he sent me. I'm not going to be able to try it for a while. Not really sure what to do with it.
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Well, it appears to be a problem with the board. I have another one coming and we'll see if it works. Thank you for your suggestions.
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/251411196650?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Has anyone used a board like this? I didn't get a wiring diagram with it, just the picture of the board with the pin info on it. I get most of it, but the screws I,L,M,N,O I'm not too sure about. I have 6 wire steppers, the plugs have 4 terminals and then 2 more on the screws for step and direction.
If this board works it would be great, I could reduce the size of my electrical box by 75%. Still will have the big computer, monitor and keyboard. I wonder how small I could make a computer with just the essentials for Mach 3 and just USB for inputs?
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You cannot drive your stepper motors directly from that board.
The Common Gnd, Step, Direction and Enable signals from each of the 5 axes are taken to suitable drivers and the stepper motors connected to them.
Tweakie.
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That seemed a little deceptive in the description. I still have the 5 volt 1 amp motors. Which one of these drivers would be best?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-Single-1-Axis-TB6560-3A-Driver-Board-CNC-Router-Stepper-Motor-Controller-/311727957822?hash=item48946f273e:g:uVQAAOSwjDZYa1sE
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Newest-4A-TB6600-Single-Axis-Stepper-Motor-Driver-Controller-for-57BYG250H-Motor-/201772402808?hash=item2efa928878:g:rLQAAOSwopRYbL8L
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The second one would be best but beware, you get what you pay for in this world, they may or may not work as well as described.
Tweakie.
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Thanks Tweakie, I should have asked first. Do you think all the TB6600 are the same? there sure is a wide variety of prices. My original Break out Board is fine, it's just the one axis on the 4 axis board that doesn't work.
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Your guess is as good as mine - I have purchased some electronic stuff from China which is absolutely excellent and other stuff which turned out to be junk.
Tweakie.
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I don't like to buy stuff from China, but it's twice as much here in the US and it's still made in China. ??
I'll probably just unplug the Y axis and plug in the A axis and set up another program for a lathe. Seems better than tearing apart my whole electrical cabinet. Winter is trying to move in so it will have to wait.
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Well, I went back again and basically started over. I began testing any connections I could and check voltage. I had been testing the input from the 26 pin cable and at the break-out board. I was only checking the signal at the spot where the green wires are, then I finally tested it at the red and white jumper wires. There is a bad connection somewhere between the break-out and driver board. I put a jumper over the 26 pin connection and it's working great. I have a better picture but Crappy photo bucket won't let me upload until I read 50 ads, or pay $15 a year to stop them.
(http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x310/Jammer_55/CNC%20Build/IMG_0010.jpg)
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Here's the better picture. I hope to try Scorch works wrap program. If I can figure out where to start.
(http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x310/Jammer_55/CNC%20Build/cnc_1.jpg)
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Is there a reason why a couple of my stepper motors get quite warm even when they are not running? I was running a 3 axis project and not using the 4th axis and the motor got very warm just sitting there. I noticed one of the other motors was warm after I had the machine on for a while even though I wasn't running anything.
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That is normal for a stepper motor. They draw power even when sitting still.
Mike
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OK, thanks, I noticed it before but they aren't so hot I couldn't keep my hand on it. Just not what I expected.